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2016 Green Bay Packers thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter sho nuff
- Start date
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Agreed with the injuries. Not an excuse for today but man, it would be nice to see this team healthy for once. Been decimated at DB all year, came in to this game with Nelson, Adams and Allison hurt, lost Lacy earlier in the year and lost 3 offensive linemen today alone. It's uncanny. I'm just not sure why. Can't really train for many of their injuries. It's not like they are soft tissue injuries. Can't really train for concussions or rib or knee injuries. Just seems like freak things but somethingthey have ot look at.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
The Packers have some good receivers, but just lack the running game this year. Is Lacy supposed to be back next season?
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
Yep.
I blame TT for the lack of depth. Anyone hanging this on Capers is just a blind fool. There is no talented depth.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I just don't know. They lost Shields. I still think Randall was playing hurt all year. Maybe not. Going in to the season they had Shields, Randall, Rollins, Goodson, Hyde, Clinton Dix and Burnett. Rollins and Randall played OK last year and they thought they could make the leap. Not sure anyone here thought depth there was a problem at the time. Besides it's hard to have depth at every position. Only the Packers know if Randall was playing hurt. Personally, I don't think he has the makeup but they see them every day in practice. Definitely a position that needs to be addressed in the off season. Preferably an experienced FA or 2 or 3 (one can dream). Need to add another playmaker on the d-line or at LB. And resign Cook.
Pipes
Footballguy
I really hope it was the injuries to Rollins and Randall for the reason they regressed and in the case of Randall regressed badly.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Heyward was terrible last year though, so maybe it is on Capers and his staff that the player was so much better this season in a different system. Going into this season, I think most everyone considered the d-backs to be a strength, one of the strongest and deepest units on the team.
jurrassic
Footballguy
I love this thread and all of you who post in it. That said, the blind allegiance frustrates me at times. It's ok to be critical with your fandom. Rodgers is a generational talent at qb and he single handedly carried them to this game. The rest of the team, talent wise, is marginal. I don't put this on Capers. Thompson has missed a ton in the past 3-4 years. They simply aren't as talented as Atlanta, and really aren't as talented as the Cowboys either. We need to start looking at this team as rational fans, not blind apologists. The defense is bad, REALLY BAD. The draft alone will not help that. Outside of Shields, in week 1, the injuries did not hurt this team. The lack of pressure, and horrendous coverage by mediocre ILB's and slow overmatched db's did. This was the defense they wanted on the field. They just gave up 44 and if were being honest, it easily could have been 60. The Falcons had no reason to even throw the ball in the second half. I'm sure they'll stand pat and bring this team back under the "8 game winning streak" guise. It's one thing to draft and develop when your qb is Alex Smith or Teddy Bridgewater. That's not us. If Ted doesn't change, we will be in this perpetual loop
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Pipes
Footballguy
If Hayward was terrible last year what adjective would you use to describe Randall this year? I recall Hayward being adequate last year.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I don't think it's blind allegiance. There's a bunch of flaws with the team. It's just not chicken-little the sky is falling stuff.
Pipes
Footballguy
I agree with this and that's my frustration with Thompson. His first round draft picks have been suspect lately. Everyone's bagging on Randall, and for good reason, but we seem to forget about Datone Jones who's been a monumental bust. TT's refusal to supplement this roster not only with free agency but trades as well. He holds onto those draft picks so damn tight when he could've brought in difference makers like Lynch or Gonzales is so frustrating.
I'm tired of having boatloads of cap space every year. I'm tired of constantly having one of he youngest rosters every year. The fact of the matter 1 Super Bowl appearance and victory when you have the best QB on the planet isn't enough. I think it boils down to talent especially of he defensive side of the ball. Other than Daniels their defense is as soft as warm butter. They need more attitude players on defense.
I appreciate TT drafting Arod. I also appreciate him keeping the Pack out of cap hell. However his ultra conservative nature needs to change and change now. QBs like Rodgers don't grow on trees and he's 33 years old now. Now is the time to load this team up and take a couple of real shots at another Super Bowl. It will be a huge waste if they go into another season with young mediocre LBs, An overpaid 1 trick "superstar" of defense and a young and soft unproven secondary. If someone like Josh Norman comes available go fricken get him.
TT has been solid as a GM but solid just isn't good enough anymore with the clock ticking on their star QB. I'm really hoping they have a major change in personnel philosophy for the next couple of years.
jurrassic
Footballguy
Yep. And the "we have to pay Rodgers so we don't have the cap space" argument that some people like to make doesn't play. The Patriots have Brady and have been to 11 conference championships and soon to be 7 Super Bowls. They reload every year with the Dillons, Welkers, Hogans, Bennetts, Lewiss, Ninkovichs, Harrisons, Vrabels....I could go on. It's unbelievable to think the Patriots went to 1 Super Bowl in 1985 and got destroyed prior to this current Kraft era and now they are going to have the most appearances of any team. THAT'S how you capitalize on an elite qb!!!!
Pipes
Footballguy
Steelers too. Not to the same degree as the Patriots but Big Bens been to 3 Superbowls in the past 10 seasons.
georg013
Footballguy
Thats ####. Thompson refuses to stick with the run despite Lacy averaging well over 4 yards a carry. Stating otherwise is silly. Im not a Packer fan but have the sense to see that the team relies too heavily on Rodgers. And as such, they fell flat on their collective faces. Balance is the key and McCarthy would rather Rodgers throw it in from the half yard mark than give it to Lacy (or fill in the flavor of the week) to punch it in. And please don't blame it on Lacy's weight because they grossly underused Starks and Montgomery as well. If they don't get 100 yards on 10 carries they are #### out of luck. This team wont go anywhere until Thompson is gone or they actually commit to balance. At least that would mask the pass defense a bit.
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Pipes
Footballguy
Lacy hasn't played in months and Starks was terrible in his limited action this season and is one the wrong side of 30. I agree the team relies too much on Rodgers but that's not Rodgers wanting to be the center of the universe which you said. That's a result of the lack of depth At RB coming into he season. Saying Rodgers wants to be the center of the universe was the ridiculous part of your statement.
BTW congrats on your Patriots victory tonight.
Pipes
Footballguy
I think he's back mainly because I don't see another team giving him a big contract. I see him doing a 1 year deal to prove he's worthy of a bigger deal.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I'm not sure they are thrilled with Lacy. He has and always will have weight problems which leads to ankle injuries every year.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Packers are going to need to replace Starks, Peppers, Jones, and Barclay. They may need to motivate Matthews. Shields needs to be replaced as unreliable (availability) and too expensive, but cutting Cornerbacks in their situation may not be wise. Gunther, I like the guy but he is far too slow. Maybe he can convert to safety or some hybrid L.B. They also need a player for the role Raji/Pennell sort of occupied the past two years.
They need to resign Cook. They need to resign Perry. They need to resign Lacy and have him be his best self. I'm writing off Raji, as I presume most have.
So the Packers have need of around 2 new stars on defense and 4 to seven solid contributors, mostly on defense but not entirely. This presumes Randall and Rollins can be salvaged. That is a lot to ask of a single draft. They need to hit on nearly 100% of their choices and certainly their first 5 choices. I don't know if any franchise has managed that, ever.
As they look to next year they have to see Dallas and Atlanta as equals or superiors with Dallas ascendant and maybe Atlanta as well. They have to see Minnesota and Detroit as challengers in their division. And they have to see Seattle, Washington, Carolina, the Giants and Arizona as relevant challengers. Philadelphia of course would argue they are ascendant and are loaded in the upcoming draft. The road back to the playoffs is crowded, 10 teams plus the Packers for a 6 team playoff field.
The Packers have no trade bait other than Rodgers and Hundley.
They do have some cap room and with Starks, Peppers, Jones, and Barclay gone will have a bit more, presuming they are gone.
I don't know if this is denouement on this year or the first post of the 2017 thread.
What a ride this year, what a wild ride.
They need to resign Cook. They need to resign Perry. They need to resign Lacy and have him be his best self. I'm writing off Raji, as I presume most have.
So the Packers have need of around 2 new stars on defense and 4 to seven solid contributors, mostly on defense but not entirely. This presumes Randall and Rollins can be salvaged. That is a lot to ask of a single draft. They need to hit on nearly 100% of their choices and certainly their first 5 choices. I don't know if any franchise has managed that, ever.
As they look to next year they have to see Dallas and Atlanta as equals or superiors with Dallas ascendant and maybe Atlanta as well. They have to see Minnesota and Detroit as challengers in their division. And they have to see Seattle, Washington, Carolina, the Giants and Arizona as relevant challengers. Philadelphia of course would argue they are ascendant and are loaded in the upcoming draft. The road back to the playoffs is crowded, 10 teams plus the Packers for a 6 team playoff field.
The Packers have no trade bait other than Rodgers and Hundley.
They do have some cap room and with Starks, Peppers, Jones, and Barclay gone will have a bit more, presuming they are gone.
I don't know if this is denouement on this year or the first post of the 2017 thread.
What a ride this year, what a wild ride.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The Packers need to get Chris Borland out of retirement and find a way to get Luke Kuechly. They need Raji to return at the height of his game and then some. They need a rookie corner with 4.2 speed, over six feet, with a wingspan like a condor, the stick-to-itness of a leach, and the tackling instinct of Ed Reed.
georg013
Footballguy
I hope Atlanta spanks them into submission. I'm a Broncos fan. I'm hoping Lacy moves on. Noticed on Twitter he is trying to rally the troops while "showing" he is in good shape. The offseason was so promising with his workouts but during the season he seemed to balloon back up. Maybe he needs to cut sugar out of his diet.
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strykerpks
Footballguy
Dig Fritz Shurmer out of the ground and he ain't doing squat with the players that were available, especially against that offense. This isn't on Dom.
Long story short, just like 2011, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 etc the defense was exposed (and many of those years are probably on Dom). Needs are aplenty. And that's on Ted. But there isn't any way this defense makes a turnaround in 6 months, draft picks/FA or not. Could a new GM do that? I'm not sure. I'm just not a "fire everyone" guy. We could be Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, Buffalo, Tampa, San Diego, LA, NYJ, Miami etc etc. 1980s Packers fans tell us to STF U
I don't think Dom should get fired based on the chicken salad he made out of chicken #### this year, but I do think he should step down. I agree that there's a change necessary in philosophy. There's *some* talent there but being awful in man, and awful in zone at the same time is not good. And a solid front 7 could make that "talent" look a helluva lot better.
I dunno, I'm kinda drinky and probably rambling. Solid return from 4-6.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ted left the team exposed depth wise. However Capers is terrible. These two things aren't in conflict with one another. Capers should have been canned 3 years ago. But they've allow him to stay for whatever reason. This defense will remain a speed bump with him. But Ted needs to start hitting on some picks. Shields got hurt, sure. But they had nothing after him for corners. Damarious Randall is terrible. I really hope they release him.,But yet you put it squarely on Capers here.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Ted has been living off the Rodgers pick his whole career. The last great draft he had was the Raji-Matthews draft. Well one of those guy is already retired and the other is a shell of his former self. That's how long ago it was.
They need to add at least one or two blue chippers to this defense, probably 5 new starters at least. Clay isn't even a blue chipper anymore. This is a pedestrian bunch top to bottom. Damarious Randall needs to be redshirted. Teach him how to catch punts and stick him on the bench. He's not corner material at all. He plays more than 10 yards off guys. Is this coached? Or is he off script on that? Did you see Julio Jones just make him look like a fool on that tackle attempt? That's because he's a joke.
Dump Capers. Dump Randall. Draft great and bring in some help at linebacker and corner. They had the worst corners in the NFL this year. Bar none.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Good thing we took tweener Damarious Randall over true safety Landon Collins. That was an easy pick, even ESPN had Collins ranked quite a bit better than Randall. But Ted got cute again, drafted Randall and turned him into the worst corner in the NFL. Meanwhile Collins, who went three picks after Randall. He was All-Pro this year. Not Pro Bowl, All Pro.
And don't give me the hindsight argument. Everybody and their brother had Collins ranked higher. He went to ####### Alabama for God sakes. Randall is from football mecca Arizona State. This is the typical drafting for need (corner) that Ted has done in recent years. Sickening.
Landon Collins would be the single best player on our defense had Ted picked him. Instead he took perhaps the single worst player on the team.
This is why they failed. The Landon Collins might have been a decent middle linebacker in coverage? Maybe a hair better than Jake Ryan? Nah, let's take (another) tweener.
I would absolutely love a reporter to ask point blank what the thought process was on that particular pick, with Collins on the board. But they won't. They don't hold their feet to the flames at all, ever.
***For ####s and grins, I looked up who the first corner taken after Damarious Randall was picked. Jalen Collins. Yes, the same Jalen Collins who forced (and recovered) the fumble on Ripkowski. Randall hasn't made a single play that good in his life.
So Ted really threaded the needle there between the Collins boys. FML. But we got...Randall. Yay.
And that, is why we fail.
And don't give me the hindsight argument. Everybody and their brother had Collins ranked higher. He went to ####### Alabama for God sakes. Randall is from football mecca Arizona State. This is the typical drafting for need (corner) that Ted has done in recent years. Sickening.
Landon Collins would be the single best player on our defense had Ted picked him. Instead he took perhaps the single worst player on the team.
This is why they failed. The Landon Collins might have been a decent middle linebacker in coverage? Maybe a hair better than Jake Ryan? Nah, let's take (another) tweener.
I would absolutely love a reporter to ask point blank what the thought process was on that particular pick, with Collins on the board. But they won't. They don't hold their feet to the flames at all, ever.
***For ####s and grins, I looked up who the first corner taken after Damarious Randall was picked. Jalen Collins. Yes, the same Jalen Collins who forced (and recovered) the fumble on Ripkowski. Randall hasn't made a single play that good in his life.
So Ted really threaded the needle there between the Collins boys. FML. But we got...Randall. Yay.
And that, is why we fail.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
Saber, I am bummed too but man... nothing compared to you.
I think many of us can agree, the Randall pick was a head scratcher at the time (at least for me) and it was a mistake. He is in over his head. He may be a good dime CB someday.
This isn't on Dom Capers. He did the best he could with the team he was given. Injuries caught up to us big time. We finally got to the point where we ran out of bodies.
Looking forward to the offseason, I'd love to see us sign a big name CB just for the sake of finally having a shut down CB... probably for the first time since Al Harris. I won't hold my breath. Shields has to go. I'd like to see TT also draft a CB in the early rounds. Not a project. Not a S to be converted to CB. A CB. I'd actually be quite pleased if we spent our entire draft on the defense again.
That being said... I am pretty sure we will have Randall and Rollins as our two starting CBs next season... :X
I think many of us can agree, the Randall pick was a head scratcher at the time (at least for me) and it was a mistake. He is in over his head. He may be a good dime CB someday.
This isn't on Dom Capers. He did the best he could with the team he was given. Injuries caught up to us big time. We finally got to the point where we ran out of bodies.
Looking forward to the offseason, I'd love to see us sign a big name CB just for the sake of finally having a shut down CB... probably for the first time since Al Harris. I won't hold my breath. Shields has to go. I'd like to see TT also draft a CB in the early rounds. Not a project. Not a S to be converted to CB. A CB. I'd actually be quite pleased if we spent our entire draft on the defense again.
That being said... I am pretty sure we will have Randall and Rollins as our two starting CBs next season... :X
The Claymaker
Footballguy
I see everyone saying Shields has to go, but until I read he is retiring he will be a starting CB next year and still by far our best CB. I certainly do for-see us drafting D/CB specifically, probably early and often. I have said for a while we lack team speed on defense and that is a major issue.
I think the jury is still out on Rollins but Randall to me would have to prove he is worthy of even being on the roster at this point, he sucks in coverage and can't tackle.
I think the jury is still out on Rollins but Randall to me would have to prove he is worthy of even being on the roster at this point, he sucks in coverage and can't tackle.
Pipes
Footballguy
I'm not saying he has to go just being realistic. Guy is still having issues from a concussion he suffered over 4 months ago and with his history of concussions I don't see how he will ever play football again.
Pipes
Footballguy
I like this up until the last sentence. The Pack absolutely cannot go into the season with Randall and Rollins as 1a and 1b or even Gunter for that matter. I really hope you're wrong about that.
Pipes
Footballguy
We could do this all day but I really wanted Eric Kendricks with that pick. Maybe because he filled such a need at the time but an inside LB with some speed and attitude would look great on this defense even though I do think Ryan and Martinez are ok.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
There is no chance this will happen, I realize we are all just "fans" and honestly for the most part have no clue of the "other side" of this sport we love. But hell, everyone can see Randall sucks, there is no way we enter the season with those two as starters. Everyone in the world saw that exposure of Gunter and Randall, Gunter has technique and may be fine on possession guys, but he has no speed at all.
I totally get the concussion side of the Shields thing, I am just saying until I read it and Shields says he won't play again, thats when I will believe it. These guys don't give up this sport easily. I am not saying it's right or wrong, I don't need a lecture about his future health.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Shields is facing a suspension from smoking marijuana. He also is still having concussion symptoms. That is not a good sign at all. He may not ever be able to play. Plus he counts 12 million against the cap next year. You realize we could possibly sign Gilmore for that same money, not have any suspension, and not have any worry about ongoing concussions symptoms from a year ago.
TT will not cut Randall. I can't recall him ever giving up on a very high draft pick that quickly. I do agree with you, but it's not going to happen
I agree completely. We all know TT though... he is stubborn on his draft picks. If he doesn't sign a starting CB we will end up drafting someone like round 4 or 5 and go in with Randall, Rollins as our top 2. Maybe he drafts another CB round 1 or 2... after the embarrassment of the 31st ranked passing D for the season I think he almost has to. But at this point do we even trust TT to make a good CB analysis? The last thing we need is another McMillian, Pat Lee, M. Underwood, Rouse, and Randall disaster. Even Rollins the jury is out
Pipes
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Shields stands to be the 4th highest paid packer next season, 6.89% of the total cap at 12 mil. Do you think it's worth it to bring him back for that?
If we cut Shields we stand to save 8 million dollars on the cap. Giving us 43 million to spend
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
A link to next year's cap situation
Daniels, 5 million dollar roster bonus! Wow. Worth every penny though
Bakhtiari counts 12 mil in dead cap space... I'm guessing that's future signing bonus? I thought he was a FA soon though
EDIT: He is a FA in 2021. Awesome. I must have missed him signing an extension. We got a bargain for now and then his salary jumps through the roof
Daniels, 5 million dollar roster bonus! Wow. Worth every penny though
Bakhtiari counts 12 mil in dead cap space... I'm guessing that's future signing bonus? I thought he was a FA soon though
EDIT: He is a FA in 2021. Awesome. I must have missed him signing an extension. We got a bargain for now and then his salary jumps through the roof
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
His availability the last two years, or more precisely his lack of availability has been crippling. He cannot be counted on. If he agreed to renegotiate his contract number down substantially, then yes, but that number does not match his expected contribution. Also, when his team is suffering his unavailability I don't want him out there smoking pot.
As for Randall and Rollins their development has been severely delayed by injury but they may yet develop. That said, I want real competition at the position. That means bringing in some challengers to each. Gunther, well he is a decent kid and tries hard but he lacks the speed for corner, even safety really.
The Claymaker
Footballguy
I guess it depends on if we do something in FA, but most the comments on here are in regards to his concussions or so it seems to me. I totally agree they definitely could make the move due to health and cap concerns. I think anyone would love to come to GB and play, we just have to make that offer.
I say we need team speed on defense, but have a scat back/slot guy with sick speed would be nice as well, we don't have that now.
I say we need team speed on defense, but have a scat back/slot guy with sick speed would be nice as well, we don't have that now.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I agree with your statement. In regard to the bolded, I believe this was from August
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I had heard it was from September. I thought the Allison one was from August. If I am mistaken, a distinct possibility, I apologize to him. I don't particularly care if he is a doper s long as he is careful around testing time, but not when recovering. he needs to be clear-headed then.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'd rather they all have their heads on straight and stay away from that stuff. But they are kids with money and kids with money will do stupid things.
I think you're right, september
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
This definitely has some merit. However Heyward wasn't terrible, he was ranked by PFF in the top 10 at CB. He was asking too much, but turns out the $15 million over 3 years he got, wasn't too much at all.
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Mr.Pack
Footballguy
I wish I could give this post 1000 likes.
The bolded is his biggest flaw and the main reason this team will never be great.
Hellova post and sums everything up perfectly
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I understand the kids with money thing. I don't judge others harshly for the very things I have done. That said, he knew he was going to have to pass a neurological exam. he was recovering. there is not a lot of information on marijuana's interactions with recovery time for brain trauma. Bad move in my estimation.
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Will the Pack be able to cut the overpaid elderly bum Peppers or is he pretty much stuck with us due to salary cap stuff?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
No need to cut him. He is a URFA. Personally, I hope we bring him back. Not at 10 million. Maybe we can get him at a reasonable salary reflective of the situational player that he is. He looks as good as he did 10 years ago. I'd be thrilled if he'd sign a 1 year deal for like 3 mil (pretty much what Guion got this year)
Edit: to call him a bum is vastly under valuing his contribution.
He had 7.5 sacks this season (second on the team)
23 total tackles, which considering he was in for about 1/2 the plays at best that's not bad. 15th on the team in tackles (is it any surprise the majority of the top 15 are DBs). 1 less than Clay Matthews
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