Chadstroma
Footballguy
Hey.... when you live far from the team and don't have the extra money to travel AND see a game- you take what you can get.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
2016 Oakland Raiders thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
massraider
Footballguy
Ian RapoportVerified account @RapSheet 7m7 minutes ago
#ND LB Jaylon Smith, who was a top 5 pick before the injury, is expected to sit out 2016. Many teams believe he'll be back to form in 2017.
Until the team gets a new venue I believe we will be starting on the road regularly. The dirt infield during games is a safety issue and the league hates seeing it on TV. The 50+ year old stadium is also probably one of the reasons why they chose the Raiders to host the game in Mexico City.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am good with a red shirt year from Jaylon is he is 100% by 2017. It would make for a defense that KILLS for the next 5 years easily. Seriously would make a top 3 defense every year with the players we would have in talent and youth. Mack, Mario, Aldon, Irvin and Jaylon? Dang. I would not want to be a QB to deal with that.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I hear ya, Chadstroma -- not many chances to travel to Oakland from my end in Seattle, but they always seem to play Seattle in preseason (given they are both WC teams), so I take full advantage of seeing them live, even if it is a relatively meaningless game.Chadstroma said:Hey.... when you live far from the team and don't have the extra money to travel AND see a game- you take what you can get.
joey
Footballguy
Just saw mention of Boldin in another thread. Don't know why it suddenly popped into my brain that Bolden seems like a Reggie pick up. But that means he would have to be happy being a 3rd WR at this point in his career since we can't stop the development of the Cooper/Crabtree tandem. But lining up Cooper/Crabtree/Bolden/Walford seems like a tough line up to cover.
Im sure it won't happen but it popped in my head as a quality vet move for a guy who's been sitting out there on the market (bargain price?) and he's already in the Bay Area.
Never struck me me as a problem child. Just a hard worker with great hands who makes plays.
Im sure it won't happen but it popped in my head as a quality vet move for a guy who's been sitting out there on the market (bargain price?) and he's already in the Bay Area.
Never struck me me as a problem child. Just a hard worker with great hands who makes plays.
This popped into my head yesterday also. I don't know Bolden's details. My main questions are is he a known good locker room guy/leader and would having him on the team do anything to Crab's mojo? Don't know if there was ever any friction there between the 2 in the past.
I think he knows that he'll be a #2 at best for whatever team he ends up on. Carolina, NE and GB seem like good landing spots for him.
massraider
Footballguy
I think you can pick any schedule and find holes in it.LawFitz said:
I'll take a game in Mexico vs a game in London any day, that's for sure. No Thursday night games, I like that.
Two back to back east coast games, if the team stays out east, that could easily work out. I dunno if teams staying out east is really better, but staying in FL for Jax/TB makes a lot of sense. We got the east coast monkey off our back, last year I think?
Seems like non-divisional games are tougher at home than on the road, can't ask for more than that (but I know the schedule makers had nothing to do with that). We have 4 early, east coast games: Titans-Ravens-Jags-Bucs. We go 3-1 or better in those games, we are cruising. 2-2 really isn't bad, either. 4-0 is possible, considering opponents.
KC in week 6, possible Houston won't be available for that game.
Coming off Monday Night Football, short week we get Carolina at home, that is a tough draw. But looking at other options, screw it. Don't want a divisional matchup, Colts won't be easy, Falcons would be nice I guess. If we gonna lose at home to CAR, may as well be on the short week, and doesn't mess up any other home games.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I love Boldin but I am not sure that he is the #3 we need. I would really like to see a (wait for it....) speed guy to stretch the field a bit. Cooper has some speed for sure but Crabtree is a possession guy as is Boldin. Walford won't stretch the field either.
Part of the reason I made my pitch for Fuller in the 2nd if he happens to fall there (somewhat unlikely) is that I think he has been getting knocked on his hands more than he ought to and he has the speed to stretch the field. It would be a potent lineup of targets for Carr for sure.
Boldin just doesn't bring that game.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
joey
Footballguy
Yeah. Fair enough. Crabs and Boldin are kind of the same guy. I like your sales pitch on Fuller though.
As for the schedule, I saw a stat yesterday that the Raiders have the easiest opening half schedule in the league (based on the usual "last year's opponent record" which we know isn't worth a ton). But if we can start the first half on fire at 6-2 or (dare I dream) 7-1, which isn't impossible considering the opponents, that would set us up beautifully for a tougher second half where, hopefully, winning begets winning.
As for the schedule, I saw a stat yesterday that the Raiders have the easiest opening half schedule in the league (based on the usual "last year's opponent record" which we know isn't worth a ton). But if we can start the first half on fire at 6-2 or (dare I dream) 7-1, which isn't impossible considering the opponents, that would set us up beautifully for a tougher second half where, hopefully, winning begets winning.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
Oakland is one of the few teams that could afford the redshirt year. They are so young and still rounding into form that 2016 likely isn't a championship year anyhow but could very likely be knocking on the door in the following two-five years. Could be a great way of turning a 2016 2nd rounder into a 2017 first rounder.Chadstroma said:
LawFitz
Footballguy
^^^ The general philosophy is that picks in the current year are worth one round ahead of picks next year. So a 2 this year is worth a 1 next year even without having to redshirt the guy.
Add in the redshirt year (which means on year less on his cheap rookie deal) plus the very real risk that he never fully recovers and there is no way I'd take this guy in rd 2.
Round 4 is the absolute earliest I would consider him and that's only if my doctors gave me a solid prognosis for recovery and if I didn't see another prospect I was high on left available.
Add in the redshirt year (which means on year less on his cheap rookie deal) plus the very real risk that he never fully recovers and there is no way I'd take this guy in rd 2.
Round 4 is the absolute earliest I would consider him and that's only if my doctors gave me a solid prognosis for recovery and if I didn't see another prospect I was high on left available.
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
I get the first point, but we're talking about a guy that if fully recovered is a top 5 pick. Besides that, his redshirt year doesn't count as an accrued season so you gain that year back as a restricted rights FA. If you have the option of trading a mid-2nd for a top 5 pick next year, don't you do it? And it's not like it's a completely wasted year. Mental reps, gym time, top of the line rehab . . . If you don't believe he makes a full recovery then I agree with waiting (or passing all together), but he won't go past the round 3 pick. I'd honestly be surprised if he makes it out of round 2. A good DT or S should be available at the 2nd round pick, it just depends on your philosophy. Play it safe and get on base, or swing for the fence. Would you take Miles Jack if he fell to the Raiders' first round pick knowing he might not be ready for the first several games, and put on the preseason PUP?
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's not correct.
And he's not a top 5 next year, he's a top 5 if he's able to return to full form. Huge risk if the guy had nerve damage, you just don't know how that's going to regenerate. Let someone else take the risk. We're still putting our roster together, we don't need to be spending early picks on guys that won't play this year and may not ever. Keep making good picks rounds 1-3 and this is a legit playoff contender. I'd be ok with a 4th but agree he won't last that long.
LawFitz
Footballguy
^^^ Exactly.
If we draft a guy with nerve damage in his knee, not only do we lose at least one full year of the incredibly valuable four rookie contract years, but we also take on the risk that he never returns to prior form (Marcus Lattimore, e.g.). Does this mean, you don't take a guy like this at all? Not necessarily. But it's a complex question predicated to two main criteria:
1. Prognosis for recovery - the most recent reports about Smith aren't good. Jack's prognosis seems better, but who knows what to believe right now... If I'm a GM, I'm vetting these guys very very carefully if I'm going to take them anywhere early.
2. Opportunity cost - the earlier the round, the better prospect you are giving up to take these guys. This is exacerbated when you have a wiz like Reggie Mac who can find good/great prospects in almost every round. In rounds 2-3, with McKenzie picking, and a deep draft, I say pass on Smith, in particular, unless our doctors feel really good about criterion 1 above.
I'm not opposed to taking these guys, but ONLY if the powers that be are carefully assessing the above two issues before pulling the trigger. Fortunately, I have full faith and confidence in McKenzie & Co. to do so.
If we draft a guy with nerve damage in his knee, not only do we lose at least one full year of the incredibly valuable four rookie contract years, but we also take on the risk that he never returns to prior form (Marcus Lattimore, e.g.). Does this mean, you don't take a guy like this at all? Not necessarily. But it's a complex question predicated to two main criteria:
1. Prognosis for recovery - the most recent reports about Smith aren't good. Jack's prognosis seems better, but who knows what to believe right now... If I'm a GM, I'm vetting these guys very very carefully if I'm going to take them anywhere early.
2. Opportunity cost - the earlier the round, the better prospect you are giving up to take these guys. This is exacerbated when you have a wiz like Reggie Mac who can find good/great prospects in almost every round. In rounds 2-3, with McKenzie picking, and a deep draft, I say pass on Smith, in particular, unless our doctors feel really good about criterion 1 above.
I'm not opposed to taking these guys, but ONLY if the powers that be are carefully assessing the above two issues before pulling the trigger. Fortunately, I have full faith and confidence in McKenzie & Co. to do so.
Last edited by a moderator:
joey
Footballguy
Yeah, while we're still trying to build a contender, let's avoid any more almost-died-in-practice-due-to-a-heart-condition kind of medical question mark picks, please.
Pick solid dudes in every round who can contribute now and get us to the playoffs for the first time in a million years.
Spending one of our 5ths on these guys? Sure. But nothing earlier.
ps. Reggie, call Donte
Pick solid dudes in every round who can contribute now and get us to the playoffs for the first time in a million years.
Spending one of our 5ths on these guys? Sure. But nothing earlier.
ps. Reggie, call Donte
massraider
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
100% agree on these thoughts about Boldin vs Crabtree -- very similar skillset, and while Boldin has veteran (and SB) experience, he's 35; I'm worried about Crabtree's level of performance coming off a career season at age 28, so I don't think adding Boldin does us anything.
Also agree on looking for a speed guy, or another quality guy who could play in the slot. Fuller is one of those guys, and I'm kinda interested in Sterling Sheppard in RD 2 as well -- not as tall but certainly think he could develop into a quality NFL slot corner.
WR is area to target in the draft for sure, but I'm a little agnostic whether we take one in the second round as opposed to going with a BPA at another position (DE, OT, etc.) in RD2.
massraider
Footballguy
Agree for the most part, but I will say that the Boldin I have watched over the years, that guy has a place on every NFL team.
He's old now, and I doubt on the team's radar, but I would not bet against him being a big help to someone this year.
He's old now, and I doubt on the team's radar, but I would not bet against him being a big help to someone this year.
ICON211
Footballguy
Boldin is a fine leader and professional and I wouldn't mind bringing him on for that alone. He made a bunch of big catches for the Ravens in the playoffs the year they won the super bowl that he had no business making out of will and desire. I also think he still has something left in the tank.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Like I said, I love Boldin. I think he is a great player even at this advanced age but when I think of what I would like to see in a #3 WR- I want a speedster
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I see what you all see in Boldin -- had a drop off in production last year, but before that had two straight seasons of +1K yards (which is saying a lot given the SF O) and was only 79 yards away from 1K in his last season in BAL.
But it would be a step backward, IMHO, to put him on the squad at this point instead of building with younger guys for the future. Would rather take the odds on a new promising draft pick or even look at a guy like Alshon Jeffrey in next year's FA than the odds on Boldin being able to bring our game to the next level. Just my opinion.
But it would be a step backward, IMHO, to put him on the squad at this point instead of building with younger guys for the future. Would rather take the odds on a new promising draft pick or even look at a guy like Alshon Jeffrey in next year's FA than the odds on Boldin being able to bring our game to the next level. Just my opinion.
ICON211
Footballguy
I don't think signing Boldin prevents them from drafting a WR this year and would not have any impact on next year. Not a huge deal one way or the other, but I think he could be helpful for this coming season and there is no reason the Raiders can't be in the mix for a wildcard or even the division.
for a running game. In that respect they are much better than WRs who "stretch the field".
ICON211
Footballguy
Jaylon Smith medical re-check supposedly did not go too well. I don't really see how he can be drafted before the fourth round.
Jaylon Smith - LB - Player
The Philadelphia Daily News' Les Bowen reports Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith's (ACL, LCL) medical recheck revealed he is still dealing with a "drop-foot problem."
Foot drop is the inability to lift the front part of the foot causing the toes to drag along the ground while walking. The issue suggests Smith is still dealing with nerve damage after tearing his ACL and LCL in the Fiesta Bowl. Already not expected to play in 2016, the problem at the very least casts doubt on Smith's ability to make a full recovery. It would be surprising if he came off the board in the first round.
Jaylon Smith - LB - Player
The Philadelphia Daily News' Les Bowen reports Notre Dame LB Jaylon Smith's (ACL, LCL) medical recheck revealed he is still dealing with a "drop-foot problem."
Foot drop is the inability to lift the front part of the foot causing the toes to drag along the ground while walking. The issue suggests Smith is still dealing with nerve damage after tearing his ACL and LCL in the Fiesta Bowl. Already not expected to play in 2016, the problem at the very least casts doubt on Smith's ability to make a full recovery. It would be surprising if he came off the board in the first round.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Pass.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I do not care about Boldin one way or the other. I do want a true slot WR that has quicks to get downfield 5-10 yards and then cut to the open spot in an instant. He must have great hands but does not have to have stretch-the-field speed.
joey
Footballguy
Raiders putting more little pieces together...
Re-signed exclusive-rights free agents Korey Toomer (special teams) and Shelby Harris (defensive line),
as well as restricted free agent offensive lineman, Matt McCants.
Guess they can't all be block-buster signings.
signed,
Spoiled in SF
Re-signed exclusive-rights free agents Korey Toomer (special teams) and Shelby Harris (defensive line),
as well as restricted free agent offensive lineman, Matt McCants.
Guess they can't all be block-buster signings.
signed,
Spoiled in SF
massraider
Footballguy
Our main hope for returner duties is healthy enough to chase tail on the internet and get a wee bit embarrassed.
Andre DeBose is quite handy with the ladies
Pretty hilarious.
Andre DeBose is quite handy with the ladies
Pretty hilarious.
joey
Footballguy
Even more reason to draft Cyrus Jones in the later rounds...especially if he falls to day 3.
massraider
Footballguy
Keanu Neal Highlights
I don't know when he's getting drafted, in fact I don't know when any of these safeties are getting drafted.
I don't know when he's getting drafted, in fact I don't know when any of these safeties are getting drafted.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Not to beat a dead horse...
Sounds like the medical reviews on Jaylon are more in the "not playing in 2016- unsure when he will play". I think that drops him out into the day 3 rounds. I was hoping for a "not playing in 2016 but ready for 2017" kind of medical review feedback. I am good with taking the chance on him with our 4th if he is there still.
Sounds like the medical reviews on Jaylon are more in the "not playing in 2016- unsure when he will play". I think that drops him out into the day 3 rounds. I was hoping for a "not playing in 2016 but ready for 2017" kind of medical review feedback. I am good with taking the chance on him with our 4th if he is there still.
Moonshine
Footballguy
Not a chance. Our arrow is pointing up, but we don't have the momentum to take a gamble on a first rounder that may never play again. If he's there on day 3, then maybe, but based on the available information I don't think he's worth the gamble before then.
LawFitz
Footballguy
I do think he has Smith and Jack confused, but the fact that Jack is still having issues with a meniscal tear that occurred in week 3 of last season tells me that it's severe enough to have long term effects, including putting him at risk of needing microfracture surgery down the line. No thanks on passing on guys like Rankins/Lawson/Alexander for that IMO.
massraider
Footballguy
The boring answer is: You trust the doctors.
No one remember the medical question marks that work out, they just work out. Same way no one remember that Justin Houston failed a Combine pot test. He never tested positive again, and it wasn't a problem.
If Jack falls, and the doctors say it's not a problem, you take him.
Same with Jaylon.
It's boring, but that's the truth. Jack is clearly worth #14, and Jaylon is clearly worth a 3rd/4th/5th, but if the docs say, they are damaged goods, then you can't draft them.
No one remember the medical question marks that work out, they just work out. Same way no one remember that Justin Houston failed a Combine pot test. He never tested positive again, and it wasn't a problem.
If Jack falls, and the doctors say it's not a problem, you take him.
Same with Jaylon.
It's boring, but that's the truth. Jack is clearly worth #14, and Jaylon is clearly worth a 3rd/4th/5th, but if the docs say, they are damaged goods, then you can't draft them.
Moonshine
Footballguy
My mistake, I saw Jaylon instead of Jack.
I'm a CPA coming off of my busy season, so let's blame that for my failings concerning reading comprehension. I'm currently in the process of shutting down my brain until things start picking back up again in July, so I can't be held accountable (accountant pun) for what I say in the meantime.
Agreed with Mass though, concerning your initial question. Personally, if the team doctors aren't concerned about his knee for the long term, I'd be thrilled to have him at 14, but if there are any hesitations I'd rather have Rankins or Lawson (or Doctson, but that's just the homer in me).
massraider
Footballguy
NFL Insiders just had some stuff on Jaylon:
Stephania Bell said that she had not heard any news about nerve regeneration, and the longer it goes without hearing anything, the worse that is.
Jim Trotter said he had talked to a few NFL teams, some thought he was worth a late 3rd, some thought they might take him off their boards.
That 5th round pick for Brice Butler from Dallas, that's the dream pick as far as I'm concerned. OK, maybe the 4th rounder.
Stephania Bell said that she had not heard any news about nerve regeneration, and the longer it goes without hearing anything, the worse that is.
Jim Trotter said he had talked to a few NFL teams, some thought he was worth a late 3rd, some thought they might take him off their boards.
That 5th round pick for Brice Butler from Dallas, that's the dream pick as far as I'm concerned. OK, maybe the 4th rounder.
massraider
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
We need to be thinking more about Myles Jack falling to #14.
I'm hoping we have our choice of Rankins/Lawson and the cornerbacks.
If this Jack Conklin joker goes before our pick, that will be a Christmas present.
Last edited by a moderator:
LawFitz
Footballguy
It's not Brice that we'd be trading. It's whichever prospect Reggie has his keen eye on in the 5th. Last year we got Heeney and Ball in that round.
Last I read Smith still has drop foot, meaning his has limited control over his toes. It's been months since the injury. Dude sounds done. But I'm not doctor, so like you said earlier, it all comes down to how our team docs feel about him.
Similar threads
