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2016 Oakland Raiders thread (1 Viewer)

Karl Joseph is Bob Sanders 2.0.  A small torpedo that will use his body to wreck, and be wrecked in return.

2 questions about moving to Las Vegas.  Would current Oakland Raiders stay fans?  I know a fair amount of STL Rams fans who are switching teams since the move.  Partly because it's a good excuse to give up on a team that sucks every year.

Also, do they really think people in Las Vegas would become Raider fans?  Most of Vegas is transplants who either already have a team, or couldn't care less about a specific team.  Many just watch football to watch, and don't follow a specific team.  That could change, but I can't really see a huge following cropping up in the desert.  They could fill the seats with people in town each week, maybe give the hotels tickets to sell?  But I'm suspicious about how many season ticket holders they'll have. 

 
steelers1080 said:
Karl Joseph is Bob Sanders 2.0.  A small torpedo that will use his body to wreck, and be wrecked in return.

2 questions about moving to Las Vegas.  Would current Oakland Raiders stay fans?  I know a fair amount of STL Rams fans who are switching teams since the move.  Partly because it's a good excuse to give up on a team that sucks every year.

Also, do they really think people in Las Vegas would become Raider fans?  Most of Vegas is transplants who either already have a team, or couldn't care less about a specific team.  Many just watch football to watch, and don't follow a specific team.  That could change, but I can't really see a huge following cropping up in the desert.  They could fill the seats with people in town each week, maybe give the hotels tickets to sell?  But I'm suspicious about how many season ticket holders they'll have. 
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I think most Raider fans would be happy with Bob Sanders who was transformational for the Colts defense when he was on the field. If Joseph can stay healthier so much the better.

Vegas is going to be an interesting experiment.  From my perspective I think Raider fans stick with their team pretty much no matter what.  They still had a massive following in Oakland when they were in LA and they still have a big fan base in Los Angeles right now (good size fan base in San Diego too).  The big advantage to Vegas is the number of cheap flights from the Bay Area, Los Angeles & San Diego which will allow for a lot of fans to come in for games.  Then there are the fans of the Raiders opponents who will also be able to fly in relatively cheap.  Add in the sheer volume of tourists who will be interested in taking in a game or conference vendors who want to show clients a good time and I think they will be able to cobble together a good sized fan base.  Now whether or not it will be a true home-field advantage or just a well attended stadium is another question.

 
Chaka said:
I think most Raider fans would be happy with Bob Sanders who was transformational for the Colts defense when he was on the field. If Joseph can stay healthier so much the better.

Vegas is going to be an interesting experiment.  From my perspective I think Raider fans stick with their team pretty much no matter what.  They still had a massive following in Oakland when they were in LA and they still have a big fan base in Los Angeles right now (good size fan base in San Diego too).  The big advantage to Vegas is the number of cheap flights from the Bay Area, Los Angeles & San Diego which will allow for a lot of fans to come in for games.  Then there are the fans of the Raiders opponents who will also be able to fly in relatively cheap.  Add in the sheer volume of tourists who will be interested in taking in a game or conference vendors who want to show clients a good time and I think they will be able to cobble together a good sized fan base.  Now whether or not it will be a true home-field advantage or just a well attended stadium is another question.
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Agree -- to Chaka's points, Raiders fans in Oakland stayed fans when they moved to LA, and though the team would be out of state, they would still be relatively geographically equidistant as they are to Oakland as when they were in LA. Would imagine television coverage maps can adjust fairly easily to show the Raiders in northern CA as well as NV. And there will always be cheap flights to Vegas for Raider faithful in the Bay Area (and anywhere else) to hop on to -- awww yeeeah.

And who else would they root for? Despite proximity I find it hard that the core fan base would switch to the 49ers, and the only other options in the time zone/tv coverage areas might be Seattle, Arizona, and perhaps Denver (which we can remove from consideration outright. Hell, I still hold grudges against the Seahawks from when they were in the AFC West).

 
steelers1080 said:
Karl Joseph is Bob Sanders 2.0.  A small torpedo that will use his body to wreck, and be wrecked in return.

2 questions about moving to Las Vegas.  Would current Oakland Raiders stay fans?  I know a fair amount of STL Rams fans who are switching teams since the move.  Partly because it's a good excuse to give up on a team that sucks every year.

Also, do they really think people in Las Vegas would become Raider fans?  Most of Vegas is transplants who either already have a team, or couldn't care less about a specific team.  Many just watch football to watch, and don't follow a specific team.  That could change, but I can't really see a huge following cropping up in the desert.  They could fill the seats with people in town each week, maybe give the hotels tickets to sell?  But I'm suspicious about how many season ticket holders they'll have. 
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With Joseph, I don't remember Sanders being much for INT's and at least college play shows Joseph is better than Sanders in that he can emulate Sanders in being a thumper but also has a bit of ball hawk in him too.

With LV. I believe so. One HUGE difference with STL is that the team left not only their city but their region. For the Raiders, LV is really basically within the region. It is closer to LA than Oakland is (and a hella lot more enjoyable to visit). In both moves from Oakland and to Oakland there remained a significant fan base once the team left. I think this is the same. Now, if it was San Antonio- that is a different story. I mean, I would struggle with that because to me LV Raiders are still the Raiders but San Antonio Raiders is a team with the colors and logo but foreign to me.

LV is a bunch of transplants- so you will have many who will remain faithful to whatever team they were a fan of before. But the Raider brand and the LV brand have a lot of synergy there. I think someone who sees themselves as being a Las Vegas person will be inclined to jump on board. 

A bunch of season tickets will be bought by the hotels and services just to be able to give out to their clients. I think that will go well beyond the typical corporate box seats but seats in the stands as they can be handed out. "Thanks for dropping several thousand dollars in gambling- enjoy a Raider game on us".

LV is by far the best available option for us. I say this as a born and bred LA guy (stuck in Chicago).  

 
Raider fans are worldwide. I'd bet less than 25% of us on these boards actually  live in the Bay Area and even less than that live in the East Bay or Oakland/Alameda area. I think Las Vegas is the best option if the team doesn't stay in Oakland. It's a short enough drive from SoCal to make it a tolerable weekend trip. And short, cheap flight for NoCal fans. Most fans who live outside of the Bay Area I'd guess would rather travel to Vegas than Oakland or LA to watch a game anyway.

 
Bruno2 said:
Most fans who live outside of the Bay Area I'd guess would rather travel to Vegas than Oakland or LA to watch a game anyway.
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This 1000x. I love the Bay Area, that's not the problem. The whole experience of going to that cr@phole of a stadium, sitting in what has to be the worst pro sports stadium I've ever been to, has ruined going to see them live. I literally thought I was going to die crushed between thousands of people on a wildly shaking elevated bridge on my way to the BART after the game. A stadium in Vegas would HAVE to be a crowd pleaser.

 
Lifelong Raiders fan here, born and raised in Austin, TX. I personally would love the move to LV, hopefully in time for my future bachelor party. Can you even imagine?

As long as they stay stateside, location won't matter much to me, especially if our management remains this excellent. If we're winning games, any words that come before "Raiders" is simply an afterthought for me.

 
Bruno2 said:
Raider fans are worldwide. I'd bet less than 25% of us on these boards actually  live in the Bay Area and even less than that live in the East Bay or Oakland/Alameda area. I think Las Vegas is the best option if the team doesn't stay in Oakland. It's a short enough drive from SoCal to make it a tolerable weekend trip. And short, cheap flight for NoCal fans. Most fans who live outside of the Bay Area I'd guess would rather travel to Vegas than Oakland or LA to watch a game anyway.
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 I agree with the bold part. I have never seen a Raiders game live. I live in South Dakota. I would more like be willing to see the Raiders play if they moved to Las Vegas then if they remained in Oakland or moved to LA.

 
Jihad Ward - DL - Raiders

Raiders signed No. 44 overall pick DL Jihad Ward to a four-year contract.

There was some concern coming out of the draft Ward would need an arthroscopic knee surgery which would knock him out of the offseason program, but he has practiced without limitations so far. A versatile prospect, Ward will compete for a rotational role as a rookie.

 
steelers1080 said:
Karl Joseph is Bob Sanders 2.0.  A small torpedo that will use his body to wreck, and be wrecked in return.

2 questions about moving to Las Vegas.  Would current Oakland Raiders stay fans?  I know a fair amount of STL Rams fans who are switching teams since the move.  Partly because it's a good excuse to give up on a team that sucks every year.

Also, do they really think people in Las Vegas would become Raider fans?  Most of Vegas is transplants who either already have a team, or couldn't care less about a specific team.  Many just watch football to watch, and don't follow a specific team.  That could change, but I can't really see a huge following cropping up in the desert.  They could fill the seats with people in town each week, maybe give the hotels tickets to sell?  But I'm suspicious about how many season ticket holders they'll have. 
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I believe plenty of people in Las Vegas would be or already are Raiders fans.  There are also tons of Raiders fans (myself included) 3 hours away in the Inland Empire that could travel to Vegas for a weekend game every week no problem...

 
Chaka said:
Sportsbook (Bovada.lv) puts the Raiders O/U win total at 8.5.

On the surface this seems like a no-brainer to take the over but IMO this meas that Vegas is a little cooler on the Raiders than the general public and they are begging the public to take the over.

I could be wrong about that, but I am pretty sure everyone in this thread would consider less than 9 wins to be a disaster.
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I would agree.  Yes, the arrow is pointing way up, but this is year 5.  At some point you have to start winning games.

 
ICON211 said:
I would agree.  Yes, the arrow is pointing way up, but this is year 5.  At some point you have to start winning games.
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If the Raiders don't start winning games that's on JDR & Co. I don't think there is much question that Reggie has given the coaches plenty to work with.

 
Chaka said:
If the Raiders don't start winning games that's on JDR & Co. I don't think there is much question that Reggie has given the coaches plenty to work with.
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I agree, but part of his job is also picking the coach.  I'm not looking to fire anyone I just think it's about time we have some tangible results.

 
ICON211 said:
I agree, but part of his job is also picking the coach.  I'm not looking to fire anyone I just think it's about time we have some tangible results.
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And if they go 8-8 or 7-9, what then?  Fire Reggie?

 
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Chaka said:
Sportsbook (Bovada.lv) puts the Raiders O/U win total at 8.5.

On the surface this seems like a no-brainer to take the over but IMO this meas that Vegas is a little cooler on the Raiders than the general public and they are begging the public to take the over.

I could be wrong about that, but I am pretty sure everyone in this thread would consider less than 9 wins to be a disaster.
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Wow, is that where expectations are?

Not speaking as a hater, despite the fact I am, but I would have thought oak fans would be estatic with 9 wins with this young nucleus. The last time the raiders were a game over .500 was that SB vs TB. How long ago does that feel? Next year is supposed to be a GREAT rb class so if they add a premier RB to add to Carr/Cooper behind that OL and an improving defense..... just threatening to make the playoffs is a huge step forward imo.

 
I'm not a raiders fan but I like the look of this team going forward.  I think they are going to surprise some people this year both offensively and defensively

 
Another thought on the potential LV move.

The biggest concern that I have heard that to me is really the only real potential drawback is the things that make Vegas attractive for Raiders fans to go see a game would also be the same for visiting team fans.

In both LA and Oakland, there has always been, and more so than perhaps any other team in the league, a culture of "Don't come here wearing the other teams colors or you put your life in your own hands" that really kept the stands pretty much all Silver and Black. Would that be the same in LV? I am not sure. But the reputation and history is there to potentially keep visiting team fans away if it continues.

 
Chadstroma said:
Another thought on the potential LV move.

The biggest concern that I have heard that to me is really the only real potential drawback is the things that make Vegas attractive for Raiders fans to go see a game would also be the same for visiting team fans.

In both LA and Oakland, there has always been, and more so than perhaps any other team in the league, a culture of "Don't come here wearing the other teams colors or you put your life in your own hands" that really kept the stands pretty much all Silver and Black. Would that be the same in LV? I am not sure. But the reputation and history is there to potentially keep visiting team fans away if it continues.
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Luckily it's purely reputation only now. I have a friend who is a Steeler fan and absolutely hates the Raiders. He went to the last 2 games over the years that the Raiders hosted the Steelers in full jersey and all and the dude looks just like Suge Knight. He came back from both games saying he had no problems at all and got along fine with all the Raider fans. Just like I'm sure a Giant fans can go to an Eagles' game and be fine, just don't get drunk and start mouthing off otherwise you're going to get checked. Give respect, receive respect. Pretty universal rules.

I do agree that we will definitely lose some home field advantage in Vegas but for some reason it just sounds better than San Antonio.

 
Ecstatic?  No, 9 wins would be fun but not quite ecstatic territory.  We still have holes and we still need young guys to grow and learn, and we have poor depth in some key areas, so I think 9 is the baseline target.  We'll win 3-4 games this year that we had no chance to win a couple of years ago, and we'll lose 2-3 in the same fashion we gave them away a couple of years ago.  11 games I'd be ecstatic, and 10 games I'd be quite happy about. 

To Chaka's point about being below 9 wins, I think it will depend on how the season played out.  If we have injuries to our defense (anywhere) then <9 wins will be a predictable outcome.  If our young guys aren't ready for big-time play I'll expect the same.  But if guys like Ward and Joseph do contribute and we're relatively healthy, a sub-9 win season would have me looking straight at the coaching staff.  Can't fire JDR after two seasons, you gotta give him minimum 3, probably 4, but you can start assessing the schemes and motivation that the assistants are responsible for.

 
And I've got to agree with the bolt fan. A 10-6 season we would be doing absolute back flips but in all reality, it's not like we would be shocked to go 8-8 but still be proud of our team. Even 8-8 I'm ok as long as we're competitive and in all the games. If we have a bunch of blowouts, that will be seen as a big step backwards. It's not going to happen though. We're dangerous, no one is going to be looking forward to playing us.

 
FreshiZ said:
Luckily it's purely reputation only now. I have a friend who is a Steeler fan and absolutely hates the Raiders. He went to the last 2 games over the years that the Raiders hosted the Steelers in full jersey and all and the dude looks just like Suge Knight. He came back from both games saying he had no problems at all and got along fine with all the Raider fans. Just like I'm sure a Giant fans can go to an Eagles' game and be fine, just don't get drunk and start mouthing off otherwise you're going to get checked. Give respect, receive respect. Pretty universal rules.

I do agree that we will definitely lose some home field advantage in Vegas but for some reason it just sounds better than San Antonio.
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Granted, the last home game I went to was 2001- so things could have changed.

Being a Raider fan and going to see them in Chicago, I was not worried at all. Heck, I was second row up on one of the end zones- the guys in front of me, on either side and in back of me were all Raider fans. The one guy next to me did the whole dress up thing.

Did watch a yelling back and forth 'almost' fight which was odd because the guys were like 10 rows apart.

 
Chadstroma said:
Did watch a yelling back and forth 'almost' fight which was odd because the guys were like 10 rows apart.
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That's the thing these days pretty much. If you're just supporting your team and not rubbing it in other fan's faces, it's mostly all good. If you starting s**t and looking for trouble, it's going to find you pretty fast. Even 10 rows away.

 
Interesting breakdown on how the current roster was constructed. 

http://www.raiders.com/news/article-1/Assembling-The-Roster-How-The-2016-Raiders-Were-Built/8166553d-34ef-4822-9cae-e74447abfadf

Out of 90 players, only two (Sea Bass and Taiwan Jones) are pre-McKenzie. There are a TON of young players on this team and it's astounding how fruitful the college ranks have been, including the draft and undrafted free agents, the last three offseasons. Reggie Mac is worth more than his weight in gold.

 
Chaka said:
And if they go 8-8 or 7-9, what then?  Fire Reggie?
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Fire JDR, and make a play for Cowher. WOuld love Chuckie back but he's too ensconced in broadcasting, with a foot in both the NFL and in college (his QB Camp, etc.).

Cowher gets the bucks from ABC today, but his profile is lower on NFL today with Deion, Boomer, James Brown, and now Gonzo sharing screentime. He'd be easier to lure back into the fold. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Fire JDR, and make a play for Cowher. WOuld love Chuckie back but he's too ensconced in broadcasting, with a foot in both the NFL and in college (his QB Camp, etc.).

Cowher gets the bucks from ABC today, but his profile is lower on NFL today with Deion, Boomer, James Brown, and now Gonzo sharing screentime. He'd be easier to lure back into the fold. 
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I wouldn't want Cowher or Gruden.  I think they have both been away too long and gone soft, the grind of the game would wear them down quicker, I would not be willing to bet on a Vermeil like second act from either of them.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Fire JDR, and make a play for Cowher. WOuld love Chuckie back but he's too ensconced in broadcasting, with a foot in both the NFL and in college (his QB Camp, etc.).

Cowher gets the bucks from ABC today, but his profile is lower on NFL today with Deion, Boomer, James Brown, and now Gonzo sharing screentime. He'd be easier to lure back into the fold. 
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Read a piece on Chuckie the other day. He loves what the job he has now gets lets him do.... essentially coach and interact tons of players and coaches. The dude is consumed with football. Most of the coaches that move to broadcasting do it because they are just tired of the grind/demand of coaching and like the slowed down/less demand of broadcasting. I think there is no doubt that Chuckie will move back to coaching- I mean, he updates his playbooks constantly based on stuff he sees from NFL and college! Also the way he talks about taking notes about players is not like preparing for a broadcast but more like competition intelligence gathering. I actually think there is a better chance of Chuckie coming back to coaching than Cowher and Chuckie would be much better prepared to reenter.

 
Chaka said:
I wouldn't want Cowher or Gruden.  I think they have both been away too long and gone soft, the grind of the game would wear them down quicker, I would not be willing to bet on a Vermeil like second act from either of them.
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I agree with Cowher but I totally disagree with Gruden. Let me see if I can find that piece....

 
I actually wouldn't mind bringing in Goldson. It would give the safety more depth which it needs in my opinion. Plus it would allow Karl Joseph to fully heal up from his knee injury and have him come back 100%.

Also Goldson could be a mentor to Joseph as Goldson is one of the harder hitters in the game at the safety position.

 
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Chaka said:
I wouldn't want Cowher or Gruden.  I think they have both been away too long and gone soft, the grind of the game would wear them down quicker, I would not be willing to bet on a Vermeil like second act from either of them.
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Del Rio was just hired 1 year and a half ago, before which a lot of Raiders fans (including myself) thought Gruden or Cowher would be great. I didn't think it was realistic to get either, but certainly don't think they've been away too long or gone soft -- they lived football through their years, and still are immersed in it as broadcasters. I don't think you go "soft" if you've already walked the walk. Not wanting the grind is another thing entirely, but money and opportunity sometimes balances that.

Chadstroma said:
 I think there is no doubt that Chuckie will move back to coaching- I mean, he updates his playbooks constantly based on stuff he sees from NFL and college! 
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That's pretty funny. As a coach, you can bet Spider 2 Y Banana will remain in that playbook.

 
Chadstroma said:
Adam Schefter points out on twitter "Raiders GM Reggie McKenzie comes from Ron Wolf tree: Draft and develop backup QBs that turn into trade currency- Brunell and Hasselbeck."
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Also Aaron Brooks. Belichick and Reid have had some success with this, too.

* Mayock mentioned B-Dawk, poor man's Earl Thomas (who didn't play as well in 2015 as previous 2-3 years) and "Bullet" Bob Sanders as incredible comps for SS Joseph. I'd add Troy Polamalu to that mash up Molotov cocktail.     

 
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Hoping that either McCaffrey or Jaydon Mickens -- both of whom have been impressing in rookie minicamps -- develop into guys we can us in season. I just predict that Crabtree regresses a little after a banner year, we haven't seen Roberts truly step-up though potential is there, so would love to see some other guys who can develop to fill in a dependable slot role or can really take the top off the D with speed.

 
Chadstroma said:
Found it! It was a Bleacher Report. One of the very few original sourced things I have seen from them that was actually good....

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2636358-inside-jon-grudens-maniacal-obsession-with-football
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Okay maybe you can convince me about Gruden. But the guy has been able to pick his next landing spot as a coach for a long time now and he keeps opting to stay in the studio.  That says something about his desire to coach. But you are right that he definitely puts the time in.  Maybe he could pull a Vermeil.

 
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Chaka said:
Okay maybe you can convince me about Gruden. But the guy has been able to pick his next landing spot as a coach for a long time now and he keeps opting to stay in the studio.  That says something about his desire to coach. But you are right that he definitely puts the time in.  Maybe he could pull a Vermeil.
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I think he will. I think it will be a superstar player that intrigues him. Because he is more offensively minded than defensive.... I am thinking a superstar QB would be what would put it over the top for him.

 
Gruden seems smart enough to never jump back in,  and have to put up with that nonsense.  

Follow the Madden model,  coach. 

 
Ha. Kraft on board with Vegas.  

This might be unanimous.  All the California,  Texas,  and new guard will be on board.  Who might vote against?  Mara and Rooney?

None of these teams want Raiders sniffing around THEIR market.  None want to move to Vegas.  It's perfect. 

 
massraider said:
Ha. Kraft on board with Vegas.  

This might be unanimous.  All the California,  Texas,  and new guard will be on board.  Who might vote against?  Mara and Rooney?

None of these teams want Raiders sniffing around THEIR market.  None want to move to Vegas.  It's perfect. 
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Robert Kraft would support Raiders move to Las Vegas
By Austin Knoblauch

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000664187/article/robert-kraft-would-support-raiders-move-to-las-vegas?campaign=Twitter_atn

 
massraider said:
Ha. Kraft on board with Vegas.  

This might be unanimous.  All the California,  Texas,  and new guard will be on board.  Who might vote against?  Mara and Rooney?

None of these teams want Raiders sniffing around THEIR market.  None want to move to Vegas.  It's perfect. 
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Kraft is very influential and a good bridge between new and old guard. If you have Kroenke, Jones, McNair and Kraft on board.... that is a whole lotta juice going in that direction. I think the momentum is that witch Jones won't even be able to put any pressure to get Davis to sell as he so desperately wants to happen (Jerky McJerkface that he is).

If Vegas were to ever happen.... I think the Raiders are the best fit for it. And out of the possible options including staying in Oakland, being tenants in LA, moving to SD or SA or even a fantasy project in the Sac area or something like that.... I think this is the best option for us. I really do. I think it preserves the current fan base and opens up more. We certainly will get the most money not of our own towards the deal. Oakland? They don't have 2 dollars to put together let alone money into a deal. LA? We get to rent a stadium with hat in hand anytime we want anything? Screw that. SD? Win over a fanbase that hates the Raiders? Sure, being jilted by the Chargers makes it easier but it is still an uphill battle PLUS if the Chargers cant get a decent deal there then how are we? SA? Try to pry fans away from long Cowboy and Texans love in a small market which will alienate a lot of current fan base? The only good thing about SA is that it puts a little fire under Jones/McNair to protect their home turf and back the LV move.

 
Chadstroma said:
Kraft is very influential and a good bridge between new and old guard. If you have Kroenke, Jones, McNair and Kraft on board.... that is a whole lotta juice going in that direction. I think the momentum is that witch Jones won't even be able to put any pressure to get Davis to sell as he so desperately wants to happen (Jerky McJerkface that he is).

If Vegas were to ever happen.... I think the Raiders are the best fit for it. And out of the possible options including staying in Oakland, being tenants in LA, moving to SD or SA or even a fantasy project in the Sac area or something like that.... I think this is the best option for us. I really do. I think it preserves the current fan base and opens up more. We certainly will get the most money not of our own towards the deal. Oakland? They don't have 2 dollars to put together let alone money into a deal. LA? We get to rent a stadium with hat in hand anytime we want anything? Screw that. SD? Win over a fanbase that hates the Raiders? Sure, being jilted by the Chargers makes it easier but it is still an uphill battle PLUS if the Chargers cant get a decent deal there then how are we? SA? Try to pry fans away from long Cowboy and Texans love in a small market which will alienate a lot of current fan base? The only good thing about SA is that it puts a little fire under Jones/McNair to protect their home turf and back the LV move.
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If only someone made a video of ac/dc singning sin city with both shots of the Raiders playing and las vegas ....that would be awesome ....perfect song to play at the stadium

 
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