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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (2 Viewers)

- if Butt or O.J. Howard are there, do we add that versatile pass catching TE who can line up anywhere on the field to catch up to the rest of the NFL? 
IMO using a 1st on a TE would be a very poor investment because a) the position is historically deep this draft b) they used an early pick two years ago on Walford c) they have much bigger needs in other positions. 

 
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You can forget about Mixon ever sniffing a Raider roster as long as Mark Davis is the owner. He is very staunchly against domestic violence due to Bilitnekoff's daughter's murder: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/03/15/man-convicted-for-2nd-time-of-murdering-daughter-of-oakland-raider-legend/

As they say in New York, furgetaboutit. 
I don't entirely disagree, however, Mixon's case was not domestic violence. The chick was a random N-word shouting barfly who pushed and slapped him before she got KTFO'd. It's not like he has a history of beating up his girl or wife, but still I could see how they'd avoid him altogether. Too bad. Dude's got stud potential. Bring on Perine then.

 
IMO using a 1st on a TE would be a very poor investment because a) the position is historically deep this draft b) they used an early pick two years ago on Walford c) they have much bigger needs in other positions. 
The Raiders need a TE but they cannot draft a TE in the 1st round.  They have much bigger needs on D.  I expected more from Walford.  Is there a legitimate reason why he has not developed?  He looks a little slow to me.  Maybe slow is the wrong word.  He seems to lack burst.   

 
Regardless of need, we need to get the best football player.  WR is the only position we have "enough" of that bringing in a dynamic talent would be mitigated by not enough opportunities to use them (and QB obviously).  We could put a great CB, S, LB, DL, TE, RB, or OL to great use.  Keep building the talent and let the coaches figure out how to leverage the guy on the field.  One of my reasons for loving the Mario Edwards pick in '15 was for that reason.

Not a fan of Raekwon McMillan.  I know he racked up a lot of tackles but part of that is their defensive bend-don't-break team.  I watched the guy a lot and never have seen a guy get himself blocked as often as McMillan does.  Jarrad Davis is much more interesting to me and although I've never seen him I keep loving what I read about Zach Cunningham.  We just need a playmaker at LB.

Would love Mixon but it's not happening with Markie.  If we can't get him the guy I wanna see is Curtis Samuel.  I know it sounds like a homer take because I pimped EZE so hard last year, but (A) I was right about him (B) Samuel is a very different guy but he's a dynamic OW.  He's exactly what they have in Richard today except he's a lot more dynamic and explosive.  Having two guys on the field like that at the same time, moving around the formation, each getting 200 touches, that's a nightmare to prepare for.  Don't sleep on Alvin Kamara either.  If not it's a deep draft and no harm if we wait until the middle rounds and get a guy like Kareem Hunt or Brian Hill.  A late banger like James Conner would be put to good use if we don't retain Murray.

I'd also love an OT at 24.  We need to fix RT and someone that can give depth at LT, or at least depth at LG so Osemele can slide over - I still don't know why they didn't do that in the Wild Card game, isn't that why we paid the guy so much as a guard?  Ryan Ramcyzk and Mike McGlinchey could be available.

 
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Regardless of need, we need to get the best football player.  WR is the only position we have "enough" of that bringing in a dynamic talent would be mitigated by not enough opportunities to use them (and QB obviously).  We could put a great CB, S, LB, DL, TE, RB, or OL to great use.  Keep building the talent and let the coaches figure out how to leverage the guy on the field.  One of my reasons for loving the Mario Edwards pick in '15 was for that reason.

Not a fan of Raekwon McMillan.  I know he racked up a lot of tackles but part of that is their defensive bend-don't-break team.  I watched the guy a lot and never have seen a guy get himself blocked as often as McMillan does.  Jarrad Davis is much more interesting to me and although I've never seen him I keep loving what I read about Zach Cunningham.  We just need a playmaker at LB.

Would love Mixon but it's not happening with Markie.  If we can't get him the guy I wanna see is Curtis Samuel.  I know it sounds like a homer take because I pimped EZE so hard last year, but (A) I was right about him (B) Samuel is a very different guy but he's a dynamic OW.  He's exactly what they have in Richard today except he's a lot more dynamic and explosive.  Having two guys on the field like that at the same time, moving around the formation, each getting 200 touches, that's a nightmare to prepare for.  Don't sleep on Alvin Kamara either.  If not it's a deep draft and no harm if we wait until the middle rounds and get a guy like Kareem Hunt or Brian Hill.  A late banger like James Conner would be put to good use if we don't retain Murray.

I'd also love an OT at 24.  We need to fix RT and someone that can give depth at LT, or at least depth at LG so Osemele can slide over - I still don't know why they didn't do that in the Wild Card game, isn't that why we paid the guy so much as a guard?  Ryan Ramcyzk and Mike McGlinchey could be available.
Solid, solid thoughts. Obviously agree the draft needs to be approached as BPA, but the first 2-3 rounds presents great opportunity to fill specific needs. 

Disagree a little on WR -- we have a franchise (or potential franchise, depending on how you view his work ethic) star in Cooper. Crabs has been lights out for us over the last few seasons but he's going to be 30 when the season starts, and I expect some decline in the gaudy numbers. His dropsies this year is also troubling.

Depth is with guys that are more JAGs than they are solid dependable options (Seth Roberts flashes in red zone and made some huge grabs this year but that kind of play has been more the exception than the rule; Holmes has skill but is also aging and has been on the team for 3 years without a step-change in performance; Holton looks promising but still raw and needs to show he's more than a UDFA contributor).  I think we could use a great FA slot receiver -- a guy like Boldin (Boldin is actually a FA this year but his age/decline scares me).

Great insight/opinion on draft potential -- always great to learn more as I don't watch tons of college ball outside of winter bowls. Love the RB insight, as I think this is the draft we need to hit upon a replacement for the "thunder" role in the backfield. We need to secure talent here to continue our success and leverage our Oline.

Speaking of O-line, if it's between a LB/CB/DT and O lineman, I prefer the D -- starting with LB -- but no question getting a reliable guy on the right hand side to shore up for Watson and Howard -- both these guys are talented, but both struggle to stay healthy, and Watson is a FA after this season, so would be good to both continue to give Carr all the protection he needs, and plan for the future.

IMO using a 1st on a TE would be a very poor investment because a) the position is historically deep this draft b) they used an early pick two years ago on Walford c) they have much bigger needs in other positions. 
Tend to agree in general, but Butt can be a gamechanger. Not saying I'd prefer we take him in 1st round as opposed to other needs, but I think that's the kind of talent that a) solidifies a key position for a while, b) takes the pressure off not having a quality slot receiver, and c) allows our offense to open up a little more and leverage even more of Carr's ability -- also brings the Raiders into the era of the NFL where a great pass catching TE is part of the fabric of a dynamic offense.

 
Butt tore his ACL in Michigan's bowl game I'd be shocked if anyone even considered him in the first.

 
Solid, solid thoughts. Obviously agree the draft needs to be approached as BPA, but the first 2-3 rounds presents great opportunity to fill specific needs. 

Disagree a little on WR -- we have a franchise (or potential franchise, depending on how you view his work ethic) star in Cooper. Crabs has been lights out for us over the last few seasons but he's going to be 30 when the season starts, and I expect some decline in the gaudy numbers. His dropsies this year is also troubling.
Yeah I rescind my comment.  If WR is the best there, just take them.  Carr will figure it out.  I've been pissing and moaning all year about Cooper and his drops and attention to detail so if we get a stud we get a stud.  I can't complain about that.  Our new OC will find a way to use it.  Heck I was just pimping Samuel who's 1/2 WR anyway.  Just take the best guy and put him to work.

 
Adam Caplan ‏@caplannfl  10m10 minutes ago
#Raiders OL coach Mike Tice has a deal in place with the team, source said. So offensive staff minus Musgrave is back for 2017.

 
Butt tore his ACL in Michigan's bowl game I'd be shocked if anyone even considered him in the first.
Great point. Likely he slips, and he already has a $2M loss of value life policy if he does to protect his *ahem* butt -- that is a huge loss of cash for him if he slips.

We've seen a lot of progression with ACL recovery time, and it's not unprecedented for a team to take a short term loss on what they think is a long term boon -- Willis McGahee, Cedric Ogbuehi, and even Jaylon Smith (not a first rounder, but still) are use cases.

I don't think it's a good idea for the Raiders to go that way and don't know if/how they covet getting a TE in the mode of Gronk, Kelce etc. Could be interesting to see how the Raiders may or may not prioritize this over other needs in later rounds.

 
Walford may not be able to develop into a star TE but I think he can be good enough. It usually takes TE a few years before they start playing their best football. Walford deserves some patience I think. He will be going into his 3rd season in 2017 which is when TE usually make a leap forward.

That said there are a lot of good TE prospects in the 2017 and enough of them that some good ones will be available in the 2nd and 3rd round that could be an upgrade.

I think the secondary should be a priority. Very good safety class this year, which is rare and good corners as well. That or LB seems like the greatest needs.

 
I don't really have a strong opinion on wher we should go in the draft.  After free agency, we'll see what the needs are, and who is top ranked at certain positions.  January draft talk is fun yet pointless.  

Before I even think about positional needs, my overwhelming thought is that improvement where we need it will come from within, or at least I think it better.  Watson, Walford, Cooper, Latham, Edwards, Ellis, James, Ball, Heeney, Joseph are all examples of youngsters I am hoping have not played their best ball for this team.  Defensively especially, the young guys we have now need to play better, and I think they need to be coached better.

Specific positions I can see a need for:

Slot guy/returner
nickel CB/returner---I don't care where the returner comes from, and maybe it's one of the runt RBs, but I dunno for sure.  
Big back
MLB
Free safety
OLB
Left tackle
 

 
I don't really have a strong opinion on wher we should go in the draft.  After free agency, we'll see what the needs are, and who is top ranked at certain positions.  January draft talk is fun yet pointless.  

Before I even think about positional needs, my overwhelming thought is that improvement where we need it will come from within, or at least I think it better.  Watson, Walford, Cooper, Latham, Edwards, Ellis, James, Ball, Heeney, Joseph are all examples of youngsters I am hoping have not played their best ball for this team.  Defensively especially, the young guys we have now need to play better, and I think they need to be coached better.

Specific positions I can see a need for:

Slot guy/returner
nickel CB/returner---I don't care where the returner comes from, and maybe it's one of the runt RBs, but I dunno for sure.  
Big back
MLB
Free safety
OLB
Left tackle
 
Love the list.  I too hope that at least 2 or 3 of the young players on your list take a nice step forward in the offseason and become true starters.  FA is going to solve at least one of these needs on the list.  The Raiders need to continue drafting BPA but the positions that I see needing addressed in the offseason in approximate order of importance are:

MLB

Free Safety

OLB  (If a stud LB is found at any spot, the LT probably moves up to the 3 spot and another LB can be found later on the list)  QB protection is extremely important. 

Left Tackle

CB

Slot WR

Big back 

 
I don't really have a strong opinion on wher we should go in the draft.  After free agency, we'll see what the needs are, and who is top ranked at certain positions.  January draft talk is fun yet pointless.  

Before I even think about positional needs, my overwhelming thought is that improvement where we need it will come from within, or at least I think it better.  Watson, Walford, Cooper, Latham, Edwards, Ellis, James, Ball, Heeney, Joseph are all examples of youngsters I am hoping have not played their best ball for this team.  Defensively especially, the young guys we have now need to play better, and I think they need to be coached better.

Specific positions I can see a need for:

Slot guy/returner
nickel CB/returner---I don't care where the returner comes from, and maybe it's one of the runt RBs, but I dunno for sure.  
Big back
MLB
Free safety
OLB
Left tackle
 
Exactly! I think we got carried away with the 12 wins. When Carr went down, so did the rest of the team. That defense is so young. They need time to develop. And they need to build depth, it seemed the Raiders just ran out of gas at the end of the season. They drafted Watson to be a starter, can he stay healthy long enough to lock down the RT spot? That's the biggest question. I wouldn't be surprised at all either if they drafted Penn's replacement instead of going defense which is the most obvious direction. 

 
I don't really have a strong opinion on wher we should go in the draft.  After free agency, we'll see what the needs are, and who is top ranked at certain positions.  January draft talk is fun yet pointless.  

Before I even think about positional needs, my overwhelming thought is that improvement where we need it will come from within, or at least I think it better.  Watson, Walford, Cooper, Latham, Edwards, Ellis, James, Ball, Heeney, Joseph are all examples of youngsters I am hoping have not played their best ball for this team.  Defensively especially, the young guys we have now need to play better, and I think they need to be coached better.

Specific positions I can see a need for:

Slot guy/returner
nickel CB/returner---I don't care where the returner comes from, and maybe it's one of the runt RBs, but I dunno for sure.  
Big back
MLB
Free safety
OLB
Left tackle
 
Nice list, I would add a penetrating DT to that list, the Raiders need more sacks.

 
John Pagano onboard as assistant head of defense or something with these words in his new title.

dunno how much of a say he had with SD drafts but can't deny they didn't bring in talent esp the dbacks.

 
SDJohnny said:
http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/34360570/russell-road-raiders-team-eyes-plot-for-las-vegas-stadium

The Russell Road site is the favorite. 62 acres. No specifics about tailgating yet. FYI you'll want to skip the first part of Sept. anyway or you really will look like  :hot:
Is not being able to tailgate at a new stadium an issue I'm not aware of?

If city ordinances allows all those fat Nebraskan housewives to waddle around the streets of Vegas, sweat-soaking through their clothes while draining those open-container blue/neon plastic yards of Mai Tais, I can't see how tailgating wouldn't be allowed.

 
Is not being able to tailgate at a new stadium an issue I'm not aware of?

If city ordinances allows all those fat Nebraskan housewives to waddle around the streets of Vegas, sweat-soaking through their clothes while draining those open-container blue/neon plastic yards of Mai Tais, I can't see how tailgating wouldn't be allowed.
i just hope it's fan friendly.  a bunch of the newish stadiums aren't set up to be tailgating havens.

 
All I'm saying is I don't know. The only specifics regarding Russell road site is the acreage, 62. It's not an issue, it's just an unknown right now.

 
Seems like the draft has a good amount of TEs, DEs, CBs, and RBs.

Haven't seen much about the DTs, or LBs, but the above seem like the strongest positions.

I've really been not paying attention to the draft this season.  Maybe it's because we have been good, I dunno.  I don't know didddly about the draft class so far.

 
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been following the move very closely, but it seems to have taken a very bad turn...  

 
I'll be the first to admit that I haven't been following the move very closely, but it seems to have taken a very bad turn...  
It looks that way.  The Raider organization needs investors to make a move to LV.  Even staying in Oakland will likely take outside money.  That cannot be a good thing. 

 
Mark used Adelson to secure $750MM in public funds, then tried to backdoor him and got squeezed. If he thought Goldman Sachs would be his fallback when Adelson does TONS of business with them, he's a moron. Maybe there is another play here with an alternative Vegas investor. The Fertitadas perhaps? If not, and Mark is standing around with his pants down, then this whole thing was fumbled very very badly.

 
I admit to only following this casually, but as I understand it there is a group lead by Ronnie Lot that has a deal in place to build a new stadium in Oakland. Last I heard Goddell said the proposal was lacking. Not sure what that means, but isn't in the interest of the entire league for the Raiders to play in a modern facility? If so, there must be a deal to be made.

I am happy that Shaff is holding the line on shelling public money out for the stadium. It is ridiculous to have public money going towards facilities a multi billion dollar industry can afford. Just give them the land is enough. 

As an aside if the Raiders somehow end up staying and getting a stadium built without public funding it will be a big feather in Shaff's cap, and possibly a stepping stone to higher office. 

 
Yeah, with Adelson snubbed and Goldman pulling out. as am confused as anyone about where this leaves us.

On one hand, cutting Adleson out was a good move -- we removed a potentially permanent ownership stake by a guy I think is a little scummy, and bringing in a partner like GS allowed for us a potentially better structure to pay against collateral without Mark giving up a permanent ownership stake.

On the other hand, Adelson (as much as a douche that he is) is so well connected - financially, politically, etc. -- that we lost the chance to have a bit of an inside fixer help move things for us in LV quickly and to the benefit of the team. Always good to have a connected cheerleader as part of the deal. In the end, Adelson may have not wanted to stay engaged anyway because of the potential divestments he might have to have made in his own business to avoid conflict of interest.

GS seems to have committed to moving forward without Adelson, then changed their mind. Wonder if Adelson -- who I imagine is a big client of GS -- put the pressure on. Seems likely.

Would love to stay in Oakland, but financing a stadium there seems impossible -- again, politicially and financially. And as much of a purist that I am, would much rather the team move and get a new stadium and be on par with the rest of the NFL than the crud-show we are working with now.

Moving to LA is the next best in my mind, even with the complications and downsides of sharing a stadium an being subjected to other constraints outside of Mark's control. But that seems to be for the Chargers now.

Moving to SD feels the most wrong of all. mostly on principle. Don't want my Silver and Black tainted in any way, shape or form by even the memory of powder blue.

 
Nothing is irrevocably broken here, money heals all wounds and there's a ton of it at stake.  Someone's going to be willing to make it.

 
Moving to SD feels the most wrong of all. mostly on principle. Don't want my Silver and Black tainted in any way, shape or form by even the memory of powder blue.
How do you think we feel about it ...lol..not as much hate around these parts for the Silver & Black as there used to be...what? 20 years ago? If there is interest in moving to SD from the Raiders you'll find haters but you'd really have to look for them. The NFL belongs here and they know it. Mark Davis on the other hand may not. San Diegans know that times have changed and that things are more corporate and less passionate. LA Charger/SD Raider games would be quite interesting though..

 
Good job, Khalil. 

And 6 votes, or heck, any votes at all, for Carr as MVP has got to feel great for us Raider fans. 

Unfortunately, the way the season ended with Carr's injury, plus this new uncertainty around the move to Vegas, has really thrown a wet blanket on this thread. . 

 
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Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  56m56 minutes ago
 #Raiders LB Aldon Smith will be reinstated in March, sources say, barring a slip up in the drug program. His request was deferred in Dec.

 
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I guess if they move to San Diego, the Raiders and Chargers could just swap nicknames.  Suddenly Phillip Rivers is a Raider and Derek Carr is a Charger.

 
I travel a really long path for any Raider games; so I don't feel qualified to weigh in on the relocation discussion.  I hope it works out in the best interest of the team and the fanbase at large.  I can only say that the entire Eastern half of the country is still going to travel and show up wherever the new stadium is built.

 
Riversco said:
I guess if they move to San Diego, the Raiders and Chargers could just swap nicknames.  Suddenly Phillip Rivers is a Raider and Derek Carr is a Charger.
Wow this just blew my mind. I wonder which way current Raiders fans would lean.

 
So the raiders are in a situation where neither oakland nor san diego is willing to build them a new venue and everyone is afraid of crossing adelson which kills the vegas venue. 

Im going to guess that the raiders become bunk mates with the 49ers until one of the 3 situations resolve themselves. 

 
I wouldn't be surprised if Vegas isn't dead yet.  Adelson may be pissed, but he's smart enough to realize there's a lot of money to be made.  Heck he could even spin it to be "you tried to screw me, so now you have to give me an even better deal" and make more out of it.

 
Im going to guess that the raiders become bunk mates with the 49ers until one of the 3 situations resolve themselves. 
Correct me if I'm wrong but thought that was tried before and that ship sailed. When 49ers were looking at building a new stadium to replace the old Candlestick, thought the Raiders were in talks to do a split stadium deal a la Jets/Giants, but that fell through and the 49ers went ahead on their own.

Not sure why the 49ers would reconsider this.

 
Correct me if I'm wrong but thought that was tried before and that ship sailed. When 49ers were looking at building a new stadium to replace the old Candlestick, thought the Raiders were in talks to do a split stadium deal a la Jets/Giants, but that fell through and the 49ers went ahead on their own.

Not sure why the 49ers would reconsider this.
Because money talks.  This is actually my 2nd choice after building their own new stadium.  Give the team an easy way to stay in Oakland while still giving the organization the revenue in order to stay competitive.  If the Raiders co-habitate the stadium the 49ers would make a bunch of money from a lease type agreement.  It would have been a lot better had this been done from the get-go like the NY teams did but I think it's probably quite doable if all involved wanted to. 

 
another article on the Vegas debacle, er, situation...

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/adelson-spokesman-on-raiders-vegas-gaffe-im-still-trying-to-figure-out-what-the-hell-they-were-thinking-160050077.html

What's so frustrating to me is that I thought, with Mark Davis at the helm, we had entered the era of Modern Raider Football where we have an owner that doesn't meddle on the field and with player signings, draft, etc. Then he goes out and seemingly lines up this very nice deal in Vegas, with a huge chunk of public money and a deep-pockets investor, and it looked like we were this close to having an offer that the other owners couldn't refuse heading into the owners meeting in March.

Then Mark goes all "Al" on us, pulls the stunt with the lease agreement ($1 rent, full control of naming, etc) and sets this whole deal back to the start, or at least it seems that way.

Even if he somehow does pull this thing off in the 11th hour with another investor jumping in, I don't like how this went down at all, where our owner looks like a total dolt and drags our Raiders right back down into the gutter with the Stupid Franchises. I thought we had clawed our way out of that gutter but I guess not...

 
You are mixing what AD was doing his last decade with the stadium negotiations. Al was meddling in the on field decisions after the league had passed him by. To my knowledge MD is staying out of the on field decisions, and it is paying off. (Their first winning season in over a decade!) Who knows how sincere MD was a bout the move to Vegas. Maybe it was a ploy to leverage a better deal with Oakland (which is where they belong). Maybe folks inside the league encouraged MD to sabotage the Vegas deal in return for a better deal in Oakland. I don't know myself.

I just hope they stay in the bay area because their fan base will support them win, lose or draw. 

 

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