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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (1 Viewer)

Bruno2 said:
So a downward trending team travelling all the way across the country after playing in London with a boat load of injuries comes into the Coliseum and whoops their a$$. What now? Another learning experience?

I wasn't expecting 12 wins again, but I was definitely expecting a competitive team this season. No one can be expected to score 30+ pts a week and win, I don't care who's at QB.

There... I vented, carry on...
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Agree. Too many problems in Raiderland right now not to be seriously worried about the trajectory of our season now.

 
Since I cancelled DTV ticket, I have been watching the Raiders since they are one of the local broadcasts.

Offense just seems so vanilla.  Very little motion and very basic plays.  Fine if they are working and the offense is clicking.  When it's not, you need to be more creative and try to create some mismatches.

 
efactor said:
Since I cancelled DTV ticket, I have been watching the Raiders since they are one of the local broadcasts.

Offense just seems so vanilla.  Very little motion and very basic plays.  Fine if they are working and the offense is clicking.  When it's not, you need to be more creative and try to create some mismatches.
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I hear what you'e saying and I agree. But they were able to run the ball today. The problem was, they couldn't stick with it because they got down early. 

It's all on the defense. Throughout the coarse of a season there will be games where they have to win 12-9, 17-14, whatever it is, my point being the defense isn't competitive at all. It' not like the Chiefs were in town or the Packers. It's the freaking Ravens! I can handle a loss as long as they're competitive, but for whatever reason they aren't showing up. Players dropping passes, fumbling, missing assignments,  Smith getting abused (which is becoming the norm now. )

Or maybe they just aren't as good as everyone thinks they were going to be. Over-hyped and over-paid. The ball bounced their way numerous times last season which hid a lot of deficiencies and Carr was playing lights out. Maybe it's time admit this team has 2 great players in Carr and Mack, a good Oline and decent WR in Crabs and then just a bunch of role players on offense. I won't count Cooper, he's become irrelevant. Conley and Obi can't get on the field, last year's 2nd round pick Ward looks like a wasted pick now. And what happened to Irvin?! I only time I see him around the ball is 10 yards down the field with his hands on his hips after someone else makes tackle. Nelson is over the hill, bring in Luani and see what he can do. And somebody in that organization please, please bench Sean Smith! For the love of God he's gotta be the slowest CB in the league! 

 
Just a terrible performance.

Team came out flat.

Defense was horrible, especially run defense for the second straight week.  Did Flacco get touched today?

Poor coaching overall and you can't punt on 4th and 4 down 10 on the Ravens 44 with less than 9 minutes left when your defense hasn't stopped the Ravens all day. 

 
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It's time to look towards next season.  Lots of holes remain on D.  More holes than expected on O.  Cook needs benched.  New DC is a must.  

 
BustedKnuckles said:
they looked so much better last season...i think we may have missed our chance 
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Its a young team that still has a lot of work to do.  There is a decent core of players to build on but the team just be more aggressive in FA.   Something has been wrong with the O all season too.  

 
DocHolliday said:
Its a young team that still has a lot of work to do.  There is a decent core of players to build on but the team just be more aggressive in FA.   Something has been wrong with the O all season too.  
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i hope so...seems like they are reverting back to the team they were before last season

 
Why wasn't the Weddle hit on Roberts a penalty?  I know it sounds whiny and in no way am i saying refs had a big impact on the game, but we seem to get screwed on personal fouls for and against an awful lot.

 
DocHolliday said:
This team is a mess and a top 12 draft pick is likely.  The team is still in building mode and not playoff caliber.  Next season could be much better.  
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That's not acceptable in year 6 and a year after going 12-4.  Should be taking steps forward not back.

 
DocHolliday said:
This team is a mess and a top 12 draft pick is likely.  The team is still in building mode and not playoff caliber.  Next season could be much better.  
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Here's what concerns me most: 

Look at the Jets. They get beat down and embarrassed in Oakland. They got knocked down but they've gotten back up fighting, winning a couple games. The Raiders get beat badly in DC and what have they done since? Not a dang thing. Where's the fight? Where's the pride? 

There's talent on that roster, but where's the fire? Manuel did a commendable job, he's not the problem at all. The Oline is just simply getting beat, unlike last year. 

The defense is a mess right now. Vanderdoes was the hot topic in camp now he's going against grown men every week and he's getting pushed around like a rag doll. He may be a good player someday, but right now he's a rookie taking his lumps. And you can say that about half the starters on defense. And on top of that their early round draft picks aren't playing other than Joseph and Edwards. No Conley, so we have to watch Smith get torched. I don't even know what they have in Obi. And Ward seems to have vanished off the face of the earth. Those are picks that were expected to make a difference, maybe they will down the road but it really hurts not having them playing now. 

 
Where’s the Poise?

Where’s the Pride?

Where’s the Commitment to Excellence?

Hell, where is the bad boy swagger that when all the chips were stacked against you in a game, and you were getting outclassed and outgunned, the team could still out-hit and outhustle and fight tooth, claw, and nail just for spite and revenge if for nothing else than have the other team go home not just with a win but also with blood and bruises and pain?

Al would not be proud of what we’re showing.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Where’s the Poise?

Where’s the Pride?

Where’s the Commitment to Excellence?

Hell, where is the bad boy swagger that when all the chips were stacked against you in a game, and you were getting outclassed and outgunned, the team could still out-hit and outhustle and fight tooth, claw, and nail just for spite and revenge if for nothing else than have the other team go home not just with a win but also with blood and bruises and pain?

Al would not be proud of what we’re showing.
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The Raiders have not had that bad boy swagger or out-hit, out-hustled, or clawed their way to victory for 15 years.  The latest draft picks have not worked out well in the secondary so far but more importantly, this time lacks fight.  Washington knocked the Raiders to the mat and they do not want to get up.   

 
DocHolliday said:
The Raiders have not had that bad boy swagger or out-hit, out-hustled, or clawed their way to victory for 15 years.  The latest draft picks have not worked out well in the secondary so far but more importantly, this time lacks fight.  Washington knocked the Raiders to the mat and they do not want to get up.   
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Agree in general but I do think they had that swagger and never say die attitude last year. Think of how they treated road games as home and fought to stay in games and finish last year.

A lot of picks aren’t panning out a spanned but some like Joseph are. Like all team we have some strengths and weaknesses.

But as mentioned, they definitely took a big step backwards, aren’t seemingly being coached to leverage strengths and guard weaknesses and adapt in game given flow, and to your point, are playing like a defeated team before the game even starts, which isn’t highly reminiscent of the last 15 years.

Sucks, but you’d think after being a Raider fan for 35 years I’d be used to having the hope ripped out of my chest.

Want to see effort at all levels - on field and in the org - to turn this season around.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Agree in general but I do think they had that swagger and never say die attitude last year. Think of how they treated road games as home and fought to stay in games and finish last year.

A lot of picks aren’t panning out a spanned but some like Joseph are. Like all team we have some strengths and weaknesses.

But as mentioned, they definitely took a big step backwards, aren’t seemingly being coached to leverage strengths and guard weaknesses and adapt in game given flow, and to your point, are playing like a defeated team before the game even starts, which isn’t highly reminiscent of the last 15 years.

Sucks, but you’d think after being a Raider fan for 35 years I’d be used to having the hope ripped out of my chest.

Want to see effort at all levels - on field and in the org - to turn this season around.
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I don't know that they had swagger last year as much as they had fun winning and simply believed that they would win. 

 
ICON211 said:
Why wasn't the Weddle hit on Roberts a penalty?  I know it sounds whiny and in no way am i saying refs had a big impact on the game, but we seem to get screwed on personal fouls for and against an awful lot.
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I asked the same question about the hit on Crabtree in the Redskin game. That is the very definition of a defenseless receiver. 

 
Some questions I have:

Where the hell is Jahid Ward hurt? Not 1 tackle or assist yesterday. 

Where the hell is Conely? 

What the hell happened to Cooper?

 
Ed Wood said:
(Raiders) will win today, 27-16.
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Dang, had the right score but the wrong teams. :D

Whoever said last week that Del Rio is a good coach when things are going right but otherwise not so much nailed it. Now that the ship is listing he doesn't have a clue on how to fix and it's been three weeks with no improvement. Coming out flat Sunday is all on him IMO and inexcusable.

Downing has been abysmal. Why did they not retain Musgrave? He only directed a top 10 offense last year.

 
Ed Wood said:
Dang, had the right score but the wrong teams. :D

Whoever said last week that Del Rio is a good coach when things are going right but otherwise not so much nailed it. Now that the ship is listing he doesn't have a clue on how to fix and it's been three weeks with no improvement. Coming out flat Sunday is all on him IMO and inexcusable.

Downing has been abysmal. Why did they not retain Musgrave? He only directed a top 10 offense last year.
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The Raiders must have made a mistake during the offseason. I think they meant to release Norton and keep Musgrave but messed up the paperwork and kept Norton and released Musgrave instead.  :shrug:   :kicksrock:

 
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Del Rio said Cooper got open five times. Here's two of them:

https://twitter.com/LeviDamien/status/917524872032432128

https://twitter.com/RaidersAnalysis/status/917463562007613440/video/1

Looks like Manuel locked onto one well covered guy both times and ignored the rest of the field while still having time in the pocket.

On the bright side of this so far train wreck of a season, as crappy as Raiders played, they coulda won last two games. Had the ball at the end in Week 4 only down 6 at Denver 39 and the crucial Cook end zone drop before that; got within a TD in fourth quarter in Week 5 and then the D couldn't get a stop and Del Rio went conservative on fourth down with nine minutes left (not so much of a riverboat gambler now, I guess).

Anyway, still don't think all is lost but there's a myriad of problems and the coaching staff doesn't seem to have to brainpower get things right. They may not be as good as they looked last year but I can't believe they're this bad either.

 
Ed Wood said:
Del Rio said Cooper got open five times. Here's two of them:

https://twitter.com/LeviDamien/status/917524872032432128

https://twitter.com/RaidersAnalysis/status/917463562007613440/video/1

Looks like Manuel locked onto one well covered guy both times and ignored the rest of the field while still having time in the pocket.

On the bright side of this so far train wreck of a season, as crappy as Raiders played, they coulda won last two games. Had the ball at the end in Week 4 only down 6 at Denver 39 and the crucial Cook end zone drop before that; got within a TD in fourth quarter in Week 5 and then the D couldn't get a stop and Del Rio went conservative on fourth down with nine minutes left (not so much of a riverboat gambler now, I guess).

Anyway, still don't think all is lost but there's a myriad of problems and the coaching staff doesn't seem to have to brainpower get things right. They may not be as good as they looked last year but I can't believe they're this bad either.
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They are not as bad as they have looked in the last couple of weeks.  They do have some issues on both sides of the ball though. 

 
Ed Wood said:
Dang, had the right score but the wrong teams. :D

Whoever said last week that Del Rio is a good coach when things are going right but otherwise not so much nailed it. Now that the ship is listing he doesn't have a clue on how to fix and it's been three weeks with no improvement. Coming out flat Sunday is all on him IMO and inexcusable.

Downing has been abysmal. Why did they not retain Musgrave? He only directed a top 10 offense last year.
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That's not what we said.  We said we are concerned that may be the case. Hopefully it's not, still time to disprove that.

Downing has been fine.  Play design and play calling isn't the issue.  Execution is.  Our OLine is getting hammered and our receivers have been horrible.  Running game has been on and off, mostly at the mercy of the OLine play.  Lynch isn't special, we knew that at his age and stage of his career.  We just wanted him to be fun and solid and contribute.

 
They signed a CB off the street today. Demetrius McCray. I don't know if this means we won't see Conley for awhile or they finally had enough of Sean Smith, hopefully the latter.

 
Hankmoody said:
That's not what we said.  We said we are concerned that may be the case. Hopefully it's not, still time to disprove that.

Downing has been fine.  Play design and play calling isn't the issue.  Execution is.  Our OLine is getting hammered and our receivers have been horrible.  Running game has been on and off, mostly at the mercy of the OLine play.  Lynch isn't special, we knew that at his age and stage of his career.  We just wanted him to be fun and solid and contribute.
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Agree that we haven’t been executing, but disagree on playcalling. I don’t see shifts in approach in game on offense, or mixing up looks like running a delay run out of a shotgun trips formation or passing out of an I or offset-I as much as we did.

Maybe it’s just Carr’s ability to audible at the line, but we’re not beating teams with game plan.

That said regardless of play, we need to execute. Our O line isn’t nearly as nasty or stout as they’ve been in the past.

 
Hankmoody said:
That's not what we said.  We said we are concerned that may be the case. Hopefully it's not, still time to disprove that.

Downing has been fine.  Play design and play calling isn't the issue.  Execution is.  Our OLine is getting hammered and our receivers have been horrible.  Running game has been on and off, mostly at the mercy of the OLine play.  Lynch isn't special, we knew that at his age and stage of his career.  We just wanted him to be fun and solid and contribute.
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This is what I was quoting (Icon on page 36): "JDR is a competent coach, but I view him as a guy that is best when things are going well.  He's more of a motivational guy that will not fare well less than top level talent IMO."

The play calling is an issue IMO. Started first game when Lynch didn't get the ball at the goal line. Then he's not even in the backfield on first down inside the 5 during another game. And he's failed to get Cooper involved at all last three weeks. Sure, some of that is on the player but good coaches get players in positions where they can succeed. Downing has not done that at all last three weeks. 10, 10 and 17 points scored make that pretty obvious.

And this is Del Rio's 12th year as a head coach. He is who he is. Nothing left to prove or disprove.

 
Whether it’s playcalling, marquee players like Coop and Lynch looking dismal, the line, missing Carr, etc., one thing seems to be true - if we can’t put 20 or more on the board, we’re going to lose.

Our D isn’t in a place where they can win us games but they can keep us in them. We don’t need the 40+ we were getting in the first two games, but we’re not going to sniff wins if we remain stuck in the 10-Point gear.

However this team can do it - with or without Carr, despite individual players having breakout games or stinkers, etc. - the whole team needs to come together to find a way to get 20 on the board, even if it means doing enough to get Tavecchio in range 6 or 7 times.

 
Has there been any chatter about the game being moved due to the air quality from the fires that are still not contained in Northern California?  I hope they get a hold on those fires soon, not because of the game, but because it has affected the lives of thousands, and it is truly a catastrophic event.

 
I am under the impression that the change was made at OC because JDR wanted to run more. It certainly hasn't manifested itself in Dowling's play calling thus far. I want to see the staff challenge the oline and get in a 21 personal and pound the rock! Stick Vanderoos at FB and play smash mouth. 

 
Hankmoody said:
The change at OC was made because they were worried Downing would get offers from other teams to become their OC. 
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Yep.

"Sources told ESPN that at least two head-coaching candidates were interested in Downing for their offensive coordinator vacancies. It is not known if Del Rio took that into consideration when deciding to promote Downing."

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I am under the impression that the change was made at OC because JDR wanted to run more.
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Yep.

"Del Rio, who also had Musgrave as his OC for with the Jaguars in 2003 and '04, was not afraid to criticize the offense this season. After a Week 14 loss at Kansas City, Del Rio said he wished he had seen more "big-boy ball" from the Raiders in terms of the running game."

"Then, after a Week 16 regular-season finale loss at Denver that cost the Raiders an AFC West title and the No. 2 seed in the playoffs, Del Rio wondered why running back Latavius Murray had only five carries in that game. The Raiders had Matt McGloin and rookie Connor Cook under center that day."

 
Bruno2 said:
They signed a CB off the street today. Demetrius McCray. I don't know if this means we won't see Conley for awhile or they finally had enough of Sean Smith, hopefully the latter.
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Or both?

"Cornerback Gareon Conley isn’t practicing with a shin injury and there’s no telling if or when he will be back."

"For as much as Sean Smith has struggled, the Raiders are too thin at cornerback to keep him off the field and need to be conscious about match-ups with smaller, faster wide receivers."

 
Ed Wood said:
Or both?

"Cornerback Gareon Conley isn’t practicing with a shin injury and there’s no telling if or when he will be back."

"For as much as Sean Smith has struggled, the Raiders are too thin at cornerback to keep him off the field and need to be conscious about match-ups with smaller, faster wide receivers."
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I get terrible Raiders coverage here in Ohio so haven't really tracked this and have wondered about this - is he just covering the wrong guys?  I don't get how he was so dominant in KC and all of a sudden he's a total liability.  Did he take the cash and check out?  Was he disguised in KCC by good over the top protection at S and a pass rush?

 
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000860769/article/amari-coopers-struggles-jaguars-nflbest-secondary-more

What's wrong with Amari Cooper?

The Raiders' WR1, who earned Pro Bowl berths after his first two seasons (both 1,000-yard campaigns), has hardly made an impact as a playmaker this season, to the point where I don't recognize No. 89. Although there are only five games in the books in 2017, Cooper's pedestrian stat line -- 13 receptions, 118 receiving yards and one touchdown -- suggests that something isn't right with his game. 

Whether it's the chemistry between the third-year pro and his MVP-caliber quarterback, adjusting to a new role in a retooled offense led by a new play caller (first-year offensive coordinator Todd Downing) or opponents paying close attention to his tendencies as a route runner and playmaker, there is something going on with Cooper that is keeping him from playing like a superstar on the perimeter.

From a production standpoint, Cooper certainly isn't impacting the game like a No. 1 receiver. He's averaging just 6.6 targets, 2.6 receptions and 23.6 receiving yards per game in 2017, after averaging 8.2 targets, 4.8 receptions and 69.5 receiving yards during his first two seasons (2015 and '16). Not to mention, Cooper ranks worst in the NFL among receivers with at least 30 targets in drops (five), drop percentage (27.8), receiving percentage or catch rate (39.4), receiving yards per target (3.6) and passer rating when targeted (34.7).

If that's not enough to set off alarm bells, the fact that he hasn't posted a 100-yard game since Week 8 of the 2016 regular season (when he had 12 receptions for 173 yards against Tampa Bay) should raise some serious concerns about his disappearing act on the perimeter. 

Elite receivers are expected to produce big numbers as the focal point of the passing game, and those expectations don't change when opponents begin to send double-coverage or brackets to their side. The best pass catchers in the business not only find a way to get open against loaded coverage, but they punish opponents who leave them alone in one-on-one matchups.

"A wide receiver is really a No. 1 guy if he commands a double-team," a former NFL defensive coordinator told me. "If we need to give him special attention to prevent him from dominating the game, then you know you're dealing with a real dude on the perimeter. If we feel like we can cover him without tricks or gadgetry, then he's not a real No. 1 in my mind." 

While that coach's opinion is certainly subjective, he does bring up a good point when discussing Cooper and his disappointing production this season. Is it a byproduct of Cooper facing more double-teams on the outside, or have opponents figured out his game?

Having studied the All-22 Coaches Film, I believe opponents have read the book on Cooper and adjusted their coverage tactics accordingly. As one of the top prospects in the 2015 draft class, the 6-foot-1, 210-pound receiver out of Alabama was an outstanding playmaker with polished routes and strong hands. He torched defenders with his diverse route-running skills, exhibiting exceptional timing and precision getting in and out of breaks. In addition, Cooper kept defenders off-balance with an assortment of stems and releases that compromised their leverage.

As a pro, Cooper continued to torment defenders with his clever route-running skills. If defensive backs attempted to shadow him from distance (7 or 8 yards off at the line of scrimmage), he consistently ate them up on a variety of short and intermediate routes. Cooper's stop-start quickness and burst made it nearly impossible to stay with him on quick-rhythm routes like slants, hitches, digs and outs.

Fast-forward to 2017, and defensive backs have figured out that eliminating free access at the line makes it tougher for Cooper to impact the game on the outside. Thus, you're seeing more defenders walk up and press him at the line (bump-and-run coverage), to make him earn his catches and yards.

"He doesn't respond well to press coverage and physicality," an AFC secondary coach told me. "When defenders put their hands on him and knock him around a little bit, they can take him out of the game." 

Studying Cooper's performance against the Denver Broncos (two catches for 9 yards in Week 4) and Baltimore Ravens (one catch for 8 yards in Week 5), I noticed that each team primarily used press techniques in its man and zone coverages to prevent him from rolling right into his route. The defenders used one- or two-hand jams at the line of scrimmage to disrupt the timing and rhythm of his route. With defenders staying attached at the hip down the field, Cooper has been unable to consistently get open against press coverage. 

According to Next Gen Stats, Cooper produces the fifth-worst passer rating against press coverage (64.2) and the eighth-worst catch rate (46.2 percent) in the league (among pass catchers with 10 or more press targets). That's certainly not the production that you expect from a WR1, particularly a two-time Pro Bowler who was expected to dominate as Derek Carr's favorite playmaker on the outside. 

Looking at the Raiders' scheme and tactical approach, I believe Oakland could do more to help Cooper escape press coverage. Downing can move his WR1 around via motion, shifts or exotic formations to give him more room at the line of scrimmage. In addition, the Raiders can position him in the slot, to allow him to use "two-way" releases against softer nickelbacks in coverage. 

The Raiders also need to consider mixing up Cooper's route tree to prevent defenders from squatting on his routes. Just looking at the tape, I noticed that he runs a lot of slants, hitches and hinges (deep hitch) from an out-wide alignment. Cooper also tips off his routes with his alignment at the snap. Defenders can quickly anticipate which routes he is running based on his proximity to the numbers (hash-split rules), and they are adjusting their leverage accordingly. Not to mention, defenders are also clued in to Oakland's passing-game tactics from certain formations, particularly 3x1 formations and empty sets.

With defenders fully aware of what's coming from No. 89, the Raiders' No. 1 receiver has been essentially eliminated from the passing game this season. In fact, I will suggest that Cooper has been erased from the Raiders' aerial attack since the middle of last season, when the Broncos and Texansprovided a blueprint for defending the crafty pass catcher. 

Considering his struggles date back to Week 9 of 2016, the onus is on the 2-3 Raiders' coaching staff to come up with some creative ways to free Cooper from coverage. With the season hanging in the balance, we will see if Oakland can expand the playbook to get No. 89 back on track.

 
Ed Wood said:
Or both?

"Cornerback Gareon Conley isn’t practicing with a shin injury and there’s no telling if or when he will be back."

"For as much as Sean Smith has struggled, the Raiders are too thin at cornerback to keep him off the field and need to be conscious about match-ups with smaller, faster wide receivers."
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Can anyone explain this "shin" injury to me? I've been around awhile, played sports from the time I was 7 to 24 and I have never heard of a shin injury. Just seems odd to me. Is it a fracture? Bone chip? Severe shin splints where the muscle pulls away from the bone? 

 
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