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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (4 Viewers)

massraider said:
Marshawn is a big addition.  So many plays Latavius would have been stopped, and he pounded forward.  God, he's fun to watch run.  

Downing called a nice game.  My favorite play was the end around to Patterson, setting up a fake end around/screen to Marshawn later.  

I like Mariota, but the difference in passing ability between he and Carr is noticeable.  Carr's passes always look like Brees' to me.  Catchable and accurate.  

Best play of the game was Coop, slippery and fighting after the catch, and shoved over the goalline by the three millionaire angry hippos in the middle of our line.  I mean, that's your 2017 Raiders in one play.  

Right now, I think Richard is the better player than Washington.  Looked real real fast and decisive after the handoff.  

With the running game, and Crabs and Coop, is Jared Cook going to just be open and available every play?  Serious question.  Seems like a nice pickup.  

Alexander cannot play RT against the AFC West edge guys.  Not sure why he rotated in, but seems like Newhouse will keep that job.  

Coop had his drops, I know.  I don't care.  Michael Irvin and TO dropped balls their whole career.  So great after the catch, and WR screens to him are going to be common, I bet.  

Vanderdoes looked like an NFL DT already.  Just seems really strong for a rookie, like he's got vet strength already, you know?  

I wan to see more of Mario out there.

James is the three down guy, and Lee is the two down MLB, Adams in the nickel.  James looks better than last year.  

Joseph is clearly a good player, Nelson doesn't look any older.

That Adoree Jackson kid is legit.  
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I appreciate your insight. I was only able to catch the game via RedZone, so didn't get to watch much of the action. What was your impression of Mack and the mid-week knee issues last week? Much ado about nothing?

 
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massraider said:
Marshawn is a big addition.  So many plays Latavius would have been stopped, and he pounded forward.  God, he's fun to watch run.  

Downing called a nice game.  My favorite play was the end around to Patterson, setting up a fake end around/screen to Marshawn later.  

I like Mariota, but the difference in passing ability between he and Carr is noticeable.  Carr's passes always look like Brees' to me.  Catchable and accurate.  

Best play of the game was Coop, slippery and fighting after the catch, and shoved over the goalline by the three millionaire angry hippos in the middle of our line.  I mean, that's your 2017 Raiders in one play.  

Right now, I think Richard is the better player than Washington.  Looked real real fast and decisive after the handoff.  

With the running game, and Crabs and Coop, is Jared Cook going to just be open and available every play?  Serious question.  Seems like a nice pickup.  

Alexander cannot play RT against the AFC West edge guys.  Not sure why he rotated in, but seems like Newhouse will keep that job.  

Coop had his drops, I know.  I don't care.  Michael Irvin and TO dropped balls their whole career.  So great after the catch, and WR screens to him are going to be common, I bet.  

Vanderdoes looked like an NFL DT already.  Just seems really strong for a rookie, like he's got vet strength already, you know?  

I wan to see more of Mario out there.

James is the three down guy, and Lee is the two down MLB, Adams in the nickel.  James looks better than last year.  

Joseph is clearly a good player, Nelson doesn't look any older.

That Adoree Jackson kid is legit.  
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Nice write up mass. I agree with most everything in your post. Cooper can be frustrating at times. They went to him 3 straight plays in that one RZ series. He has to make a catch on those plays! Side note, I have to wonder if the Raiders intentional went to Cooper to break their tendency of going to Crabtree in the RZ. Makes sense and makes it tougher for defenses to scheme to stop them.

One thing I love about Carr is his awareness. He seems aware of everything going on on the field, including the play clock. Reminds me a lot of Rodgers in that respect. That said I am a little concerned about his tendency to throw high and hang the receivers out for injury.

Agree about Vandeross. Played very well. Joesph also had a big game rocking ball carriers. I know that was a very good oline but I would like to see someone else besides Mack applying pressure on a consistent level.

Overall a huge win on the road.

 
I was able to watch the game and I was really impressed with the run defense. Other than Mariota's 10yd TD run the D held them in check. Henry was invisible and they never let Murray get rolling. I think late in the game he broke one for 17yds but that was it for him. 

The pass D was ok. Walker did have 76 yds or so but he didn't have a career game like TEs in the past would against the Raiders. Smith and Amerson had solid games and Nelson almost had a pick. Overall the defense didn't give up any huge plays, which for a young D was promising to see. The only downside was still not much of a pass rush. Mack was being chipped and doubled a lot, he did make some plays against the run. I'd also like to see them get off the field on 3rd downs more often. I can't remember exactly but the Titans were something like 8/11 on 3rd down, it was frustrating watching them play stout on 1st and 2nd then keep giving up chunks of yards on 3rd down. 

Great win! Now on to dismantling the Jets at home!

 
agreed on third down D being a concern. Seemed like R Matthews was picking up 10-15yards on 3rd and long 4 or 5 times. Very frustrating.

But, yes, besides those plays, I was happy to not hear Smith's name much during the game. Must've been doing his job.

The tandem of Nelson and Joseph seems like a strong point of the D.

I saw Mack get TRIPLE TEAMED a few times. Dang.

Oh, and love MassRaider's line: "three millionaire angry hippos".  :)

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Nice write up mass. I agree with most everything in your post. Cooper can be frustrating at times. They went to him 3 straight plays in that one RZ series. He has to make a catch on those plays! Side note, I have to wonder if the Raiders intentional went to Cooper to break their tendency of going to Crabtree in the RZ. Makes sense and makes it tougher for defenses to scheme to stop them.
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To me the 3 plays where they targeted Cooper back to back to back were part calls from the sideline and part Carr reading what was available.

1st Down:  I think Carr checked out of the run, as the safety was clearly playing run and left the slant open.
2nd Down:  Called throw to Cooper.
3rd Down:  Called throw, but throw was later in the progression so not sure Cooper was the primary read.  Tipped ball was the bigger issue in this incompletion. 

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Nice write up mass. I agree with most everything in your post. Cooper can be frustrating at times. They went to him 3 straight plays in that one RZ series. He has to make a catch on those plays!

Overall a huge win on the road.
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Absolutely agree.  I put two of those missed opportunities squarely on Cooper, the third was a slightly off target pass that allowed Jackson to make a strong defensive play.

In years past those drops would have had a huge negative impact on the entire offense and I think they would have folded.  Loved how they just let it go and got back to business.

 
massraider said:
Marshawn is a big addition.  So many plays Latavius would have been stopped, and he pounded forward.  God, he's fun to watch run.  

Downing called a nice game.  My favorite play was the end around to Patterson, setting up a fake end around/screen to Marshawn later.  

I like Mariota, but the difference in passing ability between he and Carr is noticeable.  Carr's passes always look like Brees' to me.  Catchable and accurate.  

Best play of the game was Coop, slippery and fighting after the catch, and shoved over the goalline by the three millionaire angry hippos in the middle of our line.  I mean, that's your 2017 Raiders in one play.  

Right now, I think Richard is the better player than Washington.  Looked real real fast and decisive after the handoff.  

With the running game, and Crabs and Coop, is Jared Cook going to just be open and available every play?  Serious question.  Seems like a nice pickup.  

Alexander cannot play RT against the AFC West edge guys.  Not sure why he rotated in, but seems like Newhouse will keep that job.  

Coop had his drops, I know.  I don't care.  Michael Irvin and TO dropped balls their whole career.  So great after the catch, and WR screens to him are going to be common, I bet.  

Vanderdoes looked like an NFL DT already.  Just seems really strong for a rookie, like he's got vet strength already, you know?  

I wan to see more of Mario out there.

James is the three down guy, and Lee is the two down MLB, Adams in the nickel.  James looks better than last year.  

Joseph is clearly a good player, Nelson doesn't look any older.

That Adoree Jackson kid is legit.  
Click to expand...
I didn't get to see the whole game. Watched NFL Redzone to catch as much as possible and saw some other pays from highlights etc. That being said...

Lynch looked more than what I was expecting and near the level of my highest hopes. My reservations about rust and what stastically looked like a decline before retirement are officially put to rest. My only concern left is due to age/running style and ability to go the distance for the season. If we use him right and employ healthy servings of Richard and Washington then I think we are good to go. 

I didn't see that play with Patterson but that is the type of stuff I was talking about with him in that he adds more to the offense than what he brings individually. I'm guessing the 2 yard catch on his stat line was a screen that didn't do much? Glad to hear them using him like I thought he should be used. 

Carr's TD throw was just beautiful. I mean, two naked super models that are hot of you laying on a Lamborghini Aventador kind of beautiful. Really, I like Mariota too and he will be a good QB for a while for Tenn. I think that they are a playoff team this year. But throwing wise there is no comparison- Carr is far superior. Mariota helps close the gap with his legs but long term I want Carr because like Brady or Brees- those are the guys who have long, long, effective careers. Guys who can run end up normally (yes, there are exceptions) with shorter careers. 

I will take a 11.2 YPC from a TE any day of the week and twice on Sundays and triple on Monday nights.... oh yea, and four times that on Thursday nights. Again, I was 'defending' my assertion that Cook was a good TE for us earlier in the thread and again- my thing is that it is not about him being a Gronk or a Graham with the Saints but bringing his 12 yards a catch along the lines with our running game, Cooper/Crabtree while not letting Roberts and Patterson to roam free.... yea, I will take it. 

I was confused on that with Vadal. I saw him in there on a highlight of him getting beat and then saw Newhouse jersey in a huddle. Was curious if it was injury or just not being good beyond that one play I saw. Not thrilled about Newhouse but with the rest of our line we can send him help. 

I get what you are saying with Cooper but I do care. There were a couple of TD's that he could have had and he should have made the play. It's not the end of the world but he can and should make those. 

I didn't see much D snaps. But I did see Joseph break up a TD play. I like that kid. I expect big things from Vanderdoes. I said it before- he was a steal for us. I'm glad to hear it showed up on the game. 

Sorry for the going off the back from your post but it helped me put my various thoughts together.... specially with this damn head cold.... and you hit all the points I had. The only other one I had was that I really like Black Jack Del Rio going for it once again on 4th and short. We picked it up- threw three times and did not make it. I was actually happy with the decision to kick the FG- so I like the aggressive calling and knowing we got a O-line and Beast Mode that means we can usually make that short play. But not going over board with it. Plus, I love the "Black Jack" as a nickname for a Raiders coach. It sounds like a Raider nickname beyond the gambling context. 

 
kaso said:
To me the 3 plays where they targeted Cooper back to back to back were part calls from the sideline and part Carr reading what was available.

1st Down:  I think Carr checked out of the run, as the safety was clearly playing run and left the slant open.
2nd Down:  Called throw to Cooper.
3rd Down:  Called throw, but throw was later in the progression so not sure Cooper was the primary read.  Tipped ball was the bigger issue in this incompletion. 
Click to expand...
To me they are trying to force it too much. Cooper already had a RZ TD in the game.

1st Down: They had the CB in the right position but the pass was too high and too hard. Carr may have rushed it and fired it in but also over the blitzer. I can't find a replay but i think he could have lobbed it as no one else was close to Cooper.

2nd Down: Was a great play by the CB but if Cooper caught it cleanly it would have been a TD

3rd Down: Play broke down and ball tipped at line again he had a good chance at catching it  

From watching him play i think Cooper gets in his own head too much. He already had a great RZ TD thanks to the hungry hippos but the above series may be his focus.



What I did like a lot was the drags he was running, I don't recall seeing much of that last year but i can see that becoming his bread and butter and then when no one is looking BOOM deep ball

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Page 4?? Come on now!

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/13/meet-giorgio-tavecchio-the-unconventional-raiders-new-kicker/?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1505304568

Between this Guy n King what else could you ask for?
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that last line of the article tugs at a parent's heart strings. Sounds like a Good Kid. I wish him a 12 year, hall of fame, Super-Bowl-Ring-wearing, career with the Raiders starting NOW!

 
massraider said:
Marshawn is a big addition.  So many plays Latavius would have been stopped, and he pounded forward.  God, he's fun to watch run.  

Downing called a nice game.  My favorite play was the end around to Patterson, setting up a fake end around/screen to Marshawn later.  

I like Mariota, but the difference in passing ability between he and Carr is noticeable.  Carr's passes always look like Brees' to me.  Catchable and accurate.  

Best play of the game was Coop, slippery and fighting after the catch, and shoved over the goalline by the three millionaire angry hippos in the middle of our line.  I mean, that's your 2017 Raiders in one play.  

Right now, I think Richard is the better player than Washington.  Looked real real fast and decisive after the handoff.  

With the running game, and Crabs and Coop, is Jared Cook going to just be open and available every play?  Serious question.  Seems like a nice pickup.  

Alexander cannot play RT against the AFC West edge guys.  Not sure why he rotated in, but seems like Newhouse will keep that job.  

Coop had his drops, I know.  I don't care.  Michael Irvin and TO dropped balls their whole career.  So great after the catch, and WR screens to him are going to be common, I bet.  

Vanderdoes looked like an NFL DT already.  Just seems really strong for a rookie, like he's got vet strength already, you know?  

I wan to see more of Mario out there.

James is the three down guy, and Lee is the two down MLB, Adams in the nickel.  James looks better than last year.  

Joseph is clearly a good player, Nelson doesn't look any older.

That Adoree Jackson kid is legit.  
Click to expand...
I think Downing called a great game also except for one sequence where we were at like the 4 or 5 yard line and it was first and goal and he didn't run it one single time with Lynch but Carr threw 3 straight times to Coop and had to settle for a field goal. We brought in Lynch to punch those in for TD's and not give him one shot should never happen.

 
krsone21 said:
I think Downing called a great game also except for one sequence where we were at like the 4 or 5 yard line and it was first and goal and he didn't run it one single time with Lynch but Carr threw 3 straight times to Coop and had to settle for a field goal. We brought in Lynch to punch those in for TD's and not give him one shot should never happen.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Although didn't Carr check out of a run in that series?

 
krsone21 said:
I think Downing called a great game also except for one sequence where we were at like the 4 or 5 yard line and it was first and goal and he didn't run it one single time with Lynch but Carr threw 3 straight times to Coop and had to settle for a field goal. We brought in Lynch to punch those in for TD's and not give him one shot should never happen.
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Had Cooper caught one of the three, there wouldn't be any criticism.  To turn to Lynch exclusively now would admit defeat.  Lynch's threat should open up the red-zone passing too.  Just don't ignore him when you need it.

 
Potential good news.  I believe we are going to see Conley on Sunday against the Jets.  Just some very solid intel from a friend from within.  Fingers crossed.

 
I'm hoping the team jumps out to a lead, and the young kids get some run.  If we don't need to fire up Lynch past the 2nd quarter, we shouldn't.  

 
Allen Robinson is in a contract year.  He'll probably sign a prove-it deal for one year next year with a good team to try and get a big deal. I think he would make a lovely rental.  

 
Agree with the sentiments about Lynch and how he is performing to my highest hopes. Having seen Lynch run for a long time here in Seattle, he's lost some burst/speed which has expected at this age.

What made me most nervous was a potential loss in what truly makes Lynch special - the ability and fire to run with violence and power. Best thing about Lynch is his uncanny knack of falling forward, given that power and balance. Even when stuffed, he has the ability to gain a yard and a half simply because he grinds forward.

Both of these special abilities - seeking contact with violent abandon, and raw leg churning power while staying low, giving him the ability to always churn forward, were on full display.

It's what's always made Lynch fun to watch, and he gives us that true run threat on any down that requires teams to plan for him, opening up other opportunities in seams and out of the slot. 

Another thing Del Rio, Carr et al seem to be doing right is letting Lynch be Lynch. He's a bit weird, but giving him the freedom to have fun and be himself is also going to contribute to his game.

 
massraider said:
Allen Robinson is in a contract year.  He'll probably sign a prove-it deal for one year next year with a good team to try and get a big deal. I think he would make a lovely rental.  
Click to expand...
Unless one of our main three gets hurt, I like the chemistry we have now. Doubt ARob would come here to play 4th fiddle. And if you bring him in as something more than that, the cost could be beyond dollars and cap. Cordarrelle is the perfect 4th. He is happy in that role and a major special teams contributor.

 
LawFitz said:
Unless one of our main three gets hurt, I like the chemistry we have now. Doubt ARob would come here to play 4th fiddle. And if you bring him in as something more than that, the cost could be beyond dollars and cap. Cordarrelle is the perfect 4th. He is happy in that role and a major special teams contributor.
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Patterson and Roberts are not the reason you don't bring in AR15.  

 
Todd Bowles refused to interview with the Raiders when they were looking for a coach. My annual reminder.

I hope someone has a sign that says that in the Black Hole.

 
massraider said:
Patterson and Roberts are not the reason you don't bring in AR15.  
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Respectfully disagree. Crabtree and Roberts and team chemistry are exactly why you don't bring in ARob. Real football and fantasy football are not the same. Now if one of Cooper or Crabtree falters badly or gets hurt, then by all means bring in a replacement. But from a holistic team outlook, the WR1-4 we have now are a very nice mix of talent, personality and roles.

 
massraider said:
Todd Bowles refused to interview with the Raiders when they were looking for a coach. My annual reminder.

I hope someone has a sign that says that in the Black Hole.
Click to expand...
I think I remember reading it was because he thought it was a token interview to satisfy the Rooney Rule and he wouldn't be given real consideration, which is ignorant.  The entire reason the rule exists is so that you can go get a shot at a job you otherwise would have had no shot at.  Go in there, blow them away, and get MAKE them hire you.  Instead he showed exactly who he is, and I'm glad he's not ours.

 
krsone21 said:
I think Downing called a great game also except for one sequence where we were at like the 4 or 5 yard line and it was first and goal and he didn't run it one single time with Lynch but Carr threw 3 straight times to Coop and had to settle for a field goal. We brought in Lynch to punch those in for TD's and not give him one shot should never happen.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It was terrible. On first down, from what I understand, they knew a run was coming and Carr checked out of the play. Who cares if they knew!!! They knew runs were coming in the fourth quarter and couldn't stop them. I know the part of the field makes some difference but this is Marshawn Lynch. This is why you have him. Terrible that he doesn't get the ball two times, let alone once. If he doesn't score on first and second down, fine, then maybe throw the ball on third down. But keep him in there--in the backfield--just to leave open the possibility of another try.

 
Cookiemonster said:
Had Cooper caught one of the three, there wouldn't be any criticism.  To turn to Lynch exclusively now would admit defeat.  Lynch's threat should open up the red-zone passing too.  Just don't ignore him when you need it.
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It was 7-7 at that point. I think they needed it. Just like they needed him in the fourth quarter to wind down the clock and he delivered.

 
Ed Wood said:
Agreed. It was terrible. On first down, from what I understand, they knew a run was coming and Carr checked out of the play. Who cares if they knew!!! They knew runs were coming in the fourth quarter and couldn't stop them. I know the part of the field makes some difference but this is Marshawn Lynch. This is why you have him. Terrible that he doesn't get the ball two times, let alone once. If he doesn't score on first and second down, fine, then maybe throw the ball on third down. But keep him in there--in the backfield--just to leave open the possibility of another try.
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Al Davis would be turning in his grave!

“They said you had to take what the defense gave you. No, we are going to take what we want.”

 
LawFitz said:
Respectfully disagree. Crabtree and Roberts and team chemistry are exactly why you don't bring in ARob. Real football and fantasy football are not the same. Now if one of Cooper or Crabtree falters badly or gets hurt, then by all means bring in a replacement. But from a holistic team outlook, the WR1-4 we have now are a very nice mix of talent, personality and roles.
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More importantly, we need to spend that money elsewhere. WR is fine (barring injury, of course)

 
Per Rapoport:

The #Raiders and LT Donald Penn have agreed to terms of a 2-year, $21M extension, sources say. He gets guarantees into 2018.
Click to expand...
Key for #Raiders & LT Donald Penn: If he plays well in 2017, he gets guarantees into the final year (2019). Avg $10M in final 2 years.
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Glad to see our team taking care of our guys. As a fan, I thought the way this whole situation was handled pretty dang well by both Penn and Reggie, and I'm glad to see Penn getting rewarded for the work he's put in for the team over the last several years. He's certainly deserving.

 
Re: Handling of Penn - Big added value here - other players will see this type of behavior and support by the Raider Organization.   Not hard to see how that will be used as an item in the 'pro' column when looking at options in the FA market.  

 
Man, can we get two more years out of Penn at LT? That would be crazy. 

Rewatching on Game Pass, Newhouse did a fine job. Versus, frankly, average edge guys. But still, he looked alright. I still think they need a plan vs. Miller and Ingram and Houston, but he was OK.

 
Given that Whitworth is 2 years older than Pen and appears to be performing at a high level, I think it at least reasonablet to think Pen can do the same. Well done Reggie!

 
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Moonshine said:
Per Rapoport:

Glad to see our team taking care of our guys. As a fan, I thought the way this whole situation was handled pretty dang well by both Penn and Reggie, and I'm glad to see Penn getting rewarded for the work he's put in for the team over the last several years. He's certainly deserving.
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What I like more about it is the message it sends to players in the future. Trust us. Come in and work. We will take care of you. 

That is something that will help reduce hold outs, keep veterans we want to keep and attract free agent talent. 

Even if it ends up being bad money spent on Penn (I dont think it will be he is getting up in age). It is damn good money spent on the team. 

 
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20740995/marshawn-sideline-dance-demoralizing-new-york-jets

Bizzump form Page 5 -- we're 2-0 and looking like we're in midseason form with solid play on both sides of the line. There's a looong way to go (especially in what is clearly the hardest division in the NFL...again), but we're playing with Poise and Pride -- and, considering Lynch's moves out there, with some fun and excitement as well.

I understand the Jets and their fans not liking this impromptu Soul Train party, but given the song that was playing ("I'm Really from Oakland"), fairly obvious Marshawn -- in addition to just being Marshwan -- was only reacting as a home town boy, not as a guy whose team was putting a beat down on another and looking to rub their noses in it.

Either way, classic moment, and one that really seemed to electrify the stadium. 

 
Hankmoody said:
The Autumn Wind is a pirate
Blustering in from sea,
With a rollicking song, he sweeps along,
Swaggering boisterously.

His face is weather beaten.
He wears a hooded sash,
With a silver hat about his head,
And a bristling black mustache.

He growls as he storms the country,
A villain big and bold.
And the trees all shake and quiver and quake,
As he robs them of their gold.

The Autumn Wind is a raider,
Pillaging just for fun.
He'll knock you 'round and upside down,
And laugh when he's conquered and won.
Click to expand...
:pickle:  

marshawn is the autumn wind

 
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Conley got some serious reps out there at CB as far as  I could see. And looked darn good. He didn't start but I thought I saw him as a main stay at CB from the 2nd quarter on, perhaps.  His tip ball drill to try to get Nelson an INT was a great move.

Conley + Amerson as starting CBs, with Nelson and hard hitting Joseph actually could start being a, gulp, strength for the Raiders D. Whodathunk!

 
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