2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (3 Viewers)

[flipcuplegend]

One game.  What about the others that he has averaged 4 yards a carry or less? 

baltimore, denver and washinton were game flow.  check the score kinda hard to stick with the run when down so much against the ravens and redskins.  denver was stopping basically anybody.  i think tennesee and new york j are more games to look he averages 4 yard per carry.  not defending marshawn as being the solution to a RB but don't blame this skid on him when it should be downing.  del rio needs to start having someone else call plays instead.

 

[Weebs210]

He has definitely lost a step. 

Not a Lynch hater, but it's just a fact.  You see runs that open up and you think he is breaking into the secondary for a 20 yard run like he would have 3 years ago, and he just doesn't get there and the play ends up as a 6 yard gain.  He still runs really tough, but he used to be explosive too.  He's not now. 

Couldn't be more wrong in a take than this.

 

[BoltNlava]

after watching Raider games this year one thing sticks out...Lynch is not used like in Seattle...not sure why but it is happening. Coaches know something or they know nothing...what say you?

 

[efactor]

baltimore, denver and washinton were game flow.  check the score kinda hard to stick with the run when down so much against the ravens and redskins.  denver was stopping basically anybody.  i think tennesee and new york j are more games to look he averages 4 yard per carry.  not defending marshawn as being the solution to a RB but don't blame this skid on him when it should be downing.  del rio needs to start having someone else call plays instead.

Didn't say he is responsible for the skid, but I do think he bogs the offense down due to being one dimensional and isn't near the player he was 3 years ago (last healthy season).  Raiders have multiple issues for sure.

My point is that he has lost a step and I don't think that is really debatable if you have watched him this year.  You can blame game flow, but he is still averaging 4 yards or less in every game but one (not counting KC) playing behind what is still a very good OL, on the interior at least.

 

[efactor]

Couldn't be more wrong in a take than this.

Why?

 

[Weebs210]

Why?

Because he doesn't look like he has lost a step? I've seen all of his touches this year and he looks like the same Lynch to me. He just isn't getting enough touches.  Lynch is a back who gets better the more touches he gets.

 

[efactor]

Because he doesn't look like he has lost a step? I've seen all of his touches this year and he looks like the same Lynch to me. He just isn't getting enough touches.  Lynch is a back who gets better the more touches he gets.

But he does look like he has lost a step.

Watched all the games this year too (skipped Buffalo, but he didn't play).  Also watched him a ton when he was in Seattle.  Plays he used to break into the secondary, he doesn't now.  Better with more touches?  OK, but, from the beginning, the coaching staff said they were going to limit his touches, so nobody should have expected him to get 25 carries a game.  He's a 31 year old RB.  Have never seen one that hasn't lost a step.  Even guys like Martin, Riggins and Gore who played well at advanced ages were not as quick as when they were 25-28.

 

[Weebs210]

But he does look like he has lost a step.

Watched all the games this year too (skipped Buffalo, but he didn't play).  Also watched him a ton when he was in Seattle.  Plays he used to break into the secondary, he doesn't now.  Better with more touches?  OK, but, from the beginning, the coaching staff said they were going to limit his touches, so nobody should have expected him to get 25 carries a game.  He's a 31 year old RB.  Have never seen one that hasn't lost a step.  Even guys like Martin, Riggins and Gore who played well at advanced ages were not as quick as when they were 25-28.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[efactor]

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Cool

 

[NeverEnough]

Lynch is useless for FF this year. Thinking of dropping him to take a flier on Drake.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Why?

Agree with @Weebs210 on this. Lynch has been my favorite back since entering the league, and I've watched every game he's played as a Raider and a Seahawk, and a bunch of his game on Buffalo through the years. Not claiming to be an expert or the sole authority on Lynch, but definitely have seen tons of his play through all stages of his pro career, so feel like I have a pretty solid baseline.

To say that Lynch has lost a step to me is a misjudgment of both his present ability and his overall makeup as a back.

Lynch's game was never predicated on speed. He's a 4.6 40 runner, which isn't comparable to speed backs that are 4.40 and below. He's a rumbler, not a burner, not an outside speedster that can beat you to a corner and turn it into a huge gain. In fact, his abilities lean way more on power, fantastic footwork and balance, and stamina -- it's his ability to run between the tackles and through traffic, avoid getting taken down thanks to his power and strength, and a really high degree of stamina on long runs that make him special, and be able to keep ahead of pursuit when he gets out in front on long runs.

And he absolutely has all of that still. 

He has always had solid burst, which is hard to quantify and measure, but seeing him in action with the Raiders shows no loss of his ability to use his power and explosiveness. The key difference is that he's just not getting the looks with frequency or consistently as he did in Seattle, where his use literally wore out defenders, making him definitely look faster in comparison in the 4th quarter.

 

[efactor]

Agree with @Weebs210 on this. Lynch has been my favorite back since entering the league, and I've watched every game he's played as a Raider and a Seahawk, and a bunch of his game on Buffalo through the years. Not claiming to be an expert or the sole authority on Lynch, but definitely have seen tons of his play through all stages of his pro career, so feel like I have a pretty solid baseline.

To say that Lynch has lost a step to me is a misjudgment of both his present ability and his overall makeup as a back.

Lynch's game was never predicated on speed. He's a 4.6 40 runner, which isn't comparable to speed backs that are 4.40 and below. He's a rumbler, not a burner, not an outside speedster that can beat you to a corner and turn it into a huge gain. In fact, his abilities lean way more on power, fantastic footwork and balance, and stamina -- it's his ability to run between the tackles and through traffic, avoid getting taken down thanks to his power and strength, and a really high degree of stamina on long runs that make him special, and be able to keep ahead of pursuit when he gets out in front on long runs.

And he absolutely has all of that still. 

He has always had solid burst, which is hard to quantify and measure, but seeing him in action with the Raiders shows no loss of his ability to use his power and explosiveness. The key difference is that he's just not getting the looks with frequency or consistently as he did in Seattle, where his use literally wore out defenders, making him definitely look faster in comparison in the 4th quarter.

OK, but I respectfully disagree for reasons already stated..................

 

[RaiderBones]

The confounding strategic thinking that’s sent the Raiders’ season off the rails

 

[Hankmoody]

The confounding strategic thinking that’s sent the Raiders’ season off the rails

The problem resides with their utilization of the talent on the back end. Sean Smith was brought over from Kansas City as a man-to-man corner. Gareon Conley was a first-round pick because of his man coverage skills at Ohio State. Yet so far, they’ve played almost exclusively zone coverage. They’ve only played man on 24.8 percent of snaps this season, the fourth-lowest rate in the NFL. It’s no wonder they’ve struggled on the back end.

I suspected something like this was going on.  Smith was alot better than this for KCC, it's crazy how fast he has fallen off.

The entire article is outstanding.

Stat                                                        Derek Carr      Rank (out of 32)

Time to Attempt                                             2.14        1st

Passes taking 2.6+ seconds                         27.4%      32nd

Comp % on passes taking 2.6+ seconds      43.3%      31st

Passes targeted 20+ yards downfield            10.8%     20th

That 2.14 seconds figure is out-of-this-world fast. We’ve never recorded a quarterback to be below 2.2 over an entire season, and the league average is 2.68 seconds. Carr is rifling the ball out of his hands almost as soon as he gets it snap after snap. When things aren’t open right away and he has to work to a second and third option, he’s had nowhere to go. His completion percentage drops nearly 30 points when his throws take over 2.6 seconds – the largest such gap in the NFL.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

The confounding strategic thinking that’s sent the Raiders’ season off the rails

Wow, thanks for posting. Solid article with some super interesting comparative stats. Some of the hits that resonated with me:

"They are the first team in modern NFL history to go without an interception through their first eight games."

"Sean Smith was brought over from Kansas City as a man-to-man corner. Gareon Conley was a first-round pick because of his man coverage skills at Ohio State. Yet so far, they’ve played almost exclusively zone coverage."

"Even with $40 million-plus of cap space this season dedicated to offensive linemen, the Raiders have still called the quickest passing attack in the NFL....When things aren’t open right away and [Carr] has to work to a second and third option, he’s had nowhere to go. His completion percentage drops nearly 30 points when his throws take over 2.6 seconds – the largest such gap in the NFL."

"... they’ve had arguably the least effective play-action attack in the NFL." [STC addition -- has confounded me all year why they never run PA with Lynch in the game].

"This is an offense that’s not being schemed to its talent, and sweeping ideological changes are needed to get back on track."

To me, sweeping ideological changes = sweeping coach change, JDL and both coordinators. Right now.

 

[RaiderBones]

Vic Tafur‏Verified account @VicTafur  5h5 hours ago
Talked to Kurt Warner about #Raiders offense: "Really basic. Not a lot of motion or bunch formations. Not many easy opportunities for Carr."

 

[DocHolliday]

Vic Tafur‏Verified account @VicTafur  5h5 hours ago
Talked to Kurt Warner about #Raiders offense: "Really basic. Not a lot of motion or bunch formations. Not many easy opportunities for Carr."

The O has not looked right all year.  Blame has gone from Carr to Lynch to Cooper to JDR to the OC.  The problem seems obvious. 

Such a shame this season has turned out like this.  The AFC is wide open and last year's Raiders could be marching towards the SB right now. 

 

[LawFitz]

Punt JDR and co. Give McKenzie one last coaching staff this offseason, but don't give him sole (or much) say in picking the HC. Reggie Mac is a talent in picking players but he's wiffed badly on two coaching regimes. Can you imagine if the Raiders had the 2017 Rams coaches? :sad banana:

 

[kaso]

I'm follow along with the idea of giving the coaches the boot... Not sure I agree with the next group being tabled as RM's last chance of coaching hires.  

A few random thoughts:

• The first coach he hired came in a time where RM was still cleaning up the mess RM inherited with the roster and associated salary cap.
  
• RM's contract skills are some of the best in the league.
  
• RM's drafting has been above average, top 1/3 even.
  
• RM's been able to revitalize the Free Agent draw and closure.  Sure some guys 'got away'... or the fan base would have preferred to sign.  Hindsight is great isn't it.
  

I don't think RM has done anything remotely close to being worthy of a firing.   And I think he's done far enough to last regardless of the number of coaches who come in.   There are only a handful of qualified HCs.  The stars need to align to get one and keep one. There are 31 teams who don't have a Belichick.    And there aren't any Belichick's patiently waiting for RM to simply call. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

I'm follow along with the idea of giving the coaches the boot... Not sure I agree with the next group being tabled as RM's last chance of coaching hires.  

A few random thoughts:

• The first coach he hired came in a time where RM was still cleaning up the mess RM inherited with the roster and associated salary cap.
  
• RM's contract skills are some of the best in the league.
  
• RM's drafting has been above average, top 1/3 even.
  
• RM's been able to revitalize the Free Agent draw and closure.  Sure some guys 'got away'... or the fan base would have preferred to sign.  Hindsight is great isn't it.
  

I don't think RM has done anything remotely close to being worthy of a firing.   And I think he's done far enough to last regardless of the number of coaches who come in.   There are only a handful of qualified HCs.  The stars need to align to get one and keep one. There are 31 teams who don't have a Belichick.    And there aren't any Belichick's patiently waiting for RM to simply call. 

I agree with this. McKenzie has delivered franchise players on offense and defense and he has managed the cap beautifully. 

Jack Del Rio has busted this year, but I don't think he is a failed hire. I keep making the Mark Jackson to Steve Kerr comparison, but it's so obvious to me just as it was during Mark Jackson's final season.

It's easy to tell the team isn't playing to it's potential due to the scheme. Hopefully, McKenzie ponies up for an offensive minded HC and a proven defensive coordinator. 

 

[ICON211]

I'm follow along with the idea of giving the coaches the boot... Not sure I agree with the next group being tabled as RM's last chance of coaching hires.  

A few random thoughts:

• The first coach he hired came in a time where RM was still cleaning up the mess RM inherited with the roster and associated salary cap.
  
• RM's contract skills are some of the best in the league.
  
• RM's drafting has been above average, top 1/3 even.
  
• RM's been able to revitalize the Free Agent draw and closure.  Sure some guys 'got away'... or the fan base would have preferred to sign.  Hindsight is great isn't it.
  

I don't think RM has done anything remotely close to being worthy of a firing.   And I think he's done far enough to last regardless of the number of coaches who come in.   There are only a handful of qualified HCs.  The stars need to align to get one and keep one. There are 31 teams who don't have a Belichick.    And there aren't any Belichick's patiently waiting for RM to simply call. 

Agree that his contract skills are very good.  I think his talent evaluation and drafting ability get WAY too much praise.  I love what he has done investing in the offensive line, but the defense is still a wreck and the depth on this team is horrible.  That should not be the case in year 6 of his regime.  Not many GMs even get a third coaching hire.  I'm not saying he should be fired, but the leash has to get shorter.

 

[DocHolliday]

Agree that his contract skills are very good.  I think his talent evaluation and drafting ability get WAY too much praise.  I love what he has done investing in the offensive line, but the defense is still a wreck and the depth on this team is horrible.  That should not be the case in year 6 of his regime.  Not many GMs even get a third coaching hire.  I'm not saying he should be fired, but the leash has to get shorter.

This seems fair.   I like the idea of keeping RM through one more coaching staff.   But, RM needs to make immediate changes at OC and DC.  I'm in the fence with JDR and don't care if he stays or goes.   That is up to RM to decide but it should be clear that his leash is very short now.  

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

For no reason at all, my notes on the Bills game.

First quarter, we were solid on both sides. Good first drive ending in a TD. Strong execution by Washington with some gashes, and Olawale looking good running downhill. I saw Cooper doubled/mauled on each play and still making the right moves to get into position to maybe get a piece of the ball. Crabs was awesome in taking advantage of the man coverage. Cook doing us no favors dropping gimmes on short/underneath gains.

On D, great solidity and execution with a few key 3 and outs. Our DBs were getting manhandled in blocks, looking weak in getting to McCoy in the secondary — with McCoy lookin like he was just getting warmed up.

2nd Q: Cory James looking great, and we’re containing TT from big scrambles, but not containing Shady or Zay Jones. Richard still not doing zip, Washington still looking good. Had some penalties negate key gains, like Olawale’s return. Then Holmes stings his former team - there is so something about the revenge game. King untypically lousy, Schmidt not so.

Then, a Washington turnover resulting in pick six. Patterson with nearly another fumble. We just throw screens until the half, which was idiotic time management. We got into FG range, but had no time left to do anything about it. Really where my opinion of jetttisoning all coaches went from the suggested path to being long overdue.

Q3: Another costly turnover right off the bat. At least we kept the Bills only scoring 3, but now we’re down 10. Richard fumbling punt return. Carr seemed to force a ball to Crabs with 2 Bills on him, 5 in the area overall, so of course it gets picked for our 3rd turnover. Bills FG, now 13 points off takeaways. Still a 2 posession game.

We continue to have no answer for McCoy. Tate breaks 12 ankles on one play. Get some holding calls our way but Holmes puts the Bills in position, and Taylor gets lucky at the start of the 4th, breaking the plane legitimately before the ball is batted for a recovered fumble for a huge 4th down stuff. 27-7, 3 posession game, game now past the brink for the Raiders.

4th Q: Richard and Cooks move the chains, finally. Crabs and Coop contribute, Washington with a score. We look like last year’s Raiders on this drive, spreading both the ball and the route tree and formations around, scoring quick. Way too little, way too late.

McCoy still looking like a man among boys. We get a good 3&out, but we fail to convert. Game was already over when McCoy literally burst through for an objectively really sweet TD.

So while we started well, we turned over (again literally) and died against the better team that day.

Pathetic performance where we simply cost ourselves tons, and got out-executed on both sides of the ball. Bills deserve their record and position in the playoff hunt.

Here’s hoping a road win against another reeling team can make us spoilers for wildcard AFC candidates. Which is all we are as we’re far from even sniffing other AFC teams, even though other divisional foes are losing and HOU suddenly looking like they’re in trouble. 

We are nowhere near the team we were last year, and sucks to have taken one step forward and now two steps back.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Tell you what, I dig that NFL shop commercial with the guy not only refusing to take off his Raider gear going to his girlfriend’s Chiefs loving family, but taking the fire and refusing to turn off the flashing lights on his Raiders sweater.

Strong statement. Stick to ‘em hard.

Stay golden, Raiderboy. 

 

[Sarlakticacid]

Ugly win today but a hint of getting things right in there especially with lynch just need to stick with it

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Ugly win today but a hint of getting things right in there especially with lynch just need to stick with it

Nailed it.

Very ugly. Our secondary is garbage. Karl Joseph is a contributor with the right attitude, maybe Obi gets healthy and shows us something. The rest are expendable and showed it today.

We routinely whiffed on first contacts, and we couldn’t tackle anyone in the secondary. 

And the drops. Good god, the drops. Maybe it’s me but I expect our wide receivers to actually receive. 

But Carr looked better marshalling drives and the O line played Raider strong and nasty, providing the holes they needed to.

And I know it’s cliched but Marshawn needs reps. He’ll have those downs where he drops one or two, or is caught behing the line. But he will more than make up for it in those runs where he falls forward for two or churns for a first.

It wears down the D, makes COP plays by Richard and Washington more effective, and leverages our strength - the savage war engine our o line has the talent to be.

They reminded me of last year’s Raiders at times, too. Carr was playing more comfortably than I’ve seen in a few games, and we had that quick pace, strike fast, back on the balls of your feet attack.

Don’t know why Yahoo has me at 100% as it’s still mathematically possible to lose. Base max a D can lose (not including fumbles) is -7.

Rough road ahead schedule-wise. Let’s bye up, make the changes necessary, and get back to consistently playing at the level we should, given this team’s potential and talent.

 Postseason is a far longshot, but let’s play each game like it is - a must win - and be spoilers to anyone else making a bid for the playoffs.

 

[DocHolliday]

Nailed it.

Very ugly. Our secondary is garbage. Karl Joseph is a contributor with the right attitude, maybe Obi gets healthy and shows us something. The rest are expendable and showed it today.

We routinely whiffed on first contacts, and we couldn’t tackle anyone in the secondary. 

And the drops. Good god, the drops. Maybe it’s me but I expect our wide receivers to actually receive. 

But Carr looked better marshalling drives and the O line played Raider strong and nasty, providing the holes they needed to.

And I know it’s cliched but Marshawn needs reps. He’ll have those downs where he drops one or two, or is caught behing the line. But he will more than make up for it in those runs where he falls forward for two or churns for a first.

It wears down the D, makes COP plays by Richard and Washington more effective, and leverages our strength - the savage war engine our o line has the talent to be.

They reminded me of last year’s Raiders at times, too. Carr was playing more comfortably than I’ve seen in a few games, and we had that quick pace, strike fast, back on the balls of your feet attack.

Don’t know why Yahoo has me at 100% as it’s still mathematically possible to lose. Base max a D can lose (not including fumbles) is -7.

Rough road ahead schedule-wise. Let’s bye up, make the changes necessary, and get back to consistently playing at the level we should, given this team’s potential and talent.

 Postseason is a far longshot, but let’s play each game like it is - a must win - and be spoilers to anyone else making a bid for the playoffs.

Simply tackling correctly would help the D tremendously.  I hate the D.  Norton has to go. 

Carr did look more comfortable.  Cook looked really comfortable running routes and catching passes.  Cook is going to be huge for Carr since Cooper is not right this season and hopefully only for this season.  Teams will have to worry about Crabtree, Cooper, and Carr almost equally.  Something will be open.  \

I still like Richard and Washington more than Lynch.  They hit the hole much faster and can get yards when Lynch gets hit at the line for no gain.  A true RB needs to be drafted in the 3rd or 4th round in 2018.  Obviously, the D has to be addressed a lot after the season. 

 

[kaso]

Might as well keep with the random comments, again in no particular order.

• As stated, super ugly win.   Not sure if we won that or if the Miami D lost it.   Either way, I'm happy they got the W on the road heading into the bye week.
  
• I was happy with the use of Lynch.  They kept with him and let the Oline get into a better rhythm.  I think the play calling benefited from that commitment too. 
  
• Again, I thought that Washington proved to be a better option than Richard.
  
• Cook.  Thank you sir.  Saved a number of series, and drives.   Played a great game.  I hope they continue to exploit him when he is covered by a LB.   When is the last time we had a TE play a meaningful game like that?  
  
• Great drive to end the half in forcing the pace and play calling to even get 3 points.  Need to have more of that mentality going forward. 
  
• As stated... drops.  Again.  Drops.  I can't fathom how frustrated Carr must be.  I mean I'm screaming at my TV at every drop. He must be going absolutely bonkers in his head.   Cooper leading the league in drops, again.  
  
• Credit to the Bills for the early onside kick.  The kicker did a great job in selling the normal long kick and made a heck of a play with the Raiders coverage team retreating.  
  
• I think the field conditions really hurt Mack in the pass rush game.  And like Wake as well.
  
• Newhouse.  Wow.  I mean I'm super happy that we have the video/gif of a 300lb man doing a helicopter.  But how about just falling on the ball next time?  He didn't have a hope of picking up the first down with 14 or 15 yards to go.
  
• Can someone find an interception please?  Just one, so that the monkey can be removed from their backs?  Maybe Conley is hiding them, as anybody seen Conley.
  
• Obi didn't do anything to wow me, but happy to see a healthy player back on the field.   Here's hoping a full 2 weeks of practice will allow him to start playing more snaps.
  
• Did the LBs/Secondary have their arms tied behind their backs?  The 'tackling' was horrible.
  
• That Lee Smith penalty was a bad one.  And then two back to back from Cook... That serious could have been a game changer/ender.   
  

 

[Ed Wood]

Carr was playing more comfortably than I’ve seen in a few games, and we had that quick pace, strike fast, back on the balls of your feet attack.

Carr was holding on to the ball (to his and the team's benefit) much longer than he has in past weeks. Still sense he has happy feet and is reluctant to wait until the very last millisecond to release the ball, but this was a big step in the right direction. Will be curious to see if it continues. Got some beastly teams to play ahead.

 

[Ed Wood]

Simply tackling correctly would help the D tremendously.  I hate the D.  Norton has to go.

Can you fire a DC on a bye week...after a win?

 

[Chaka]

Can you fire a DC on a bye week...after a win?

Yes, have some.

 

[Chaka]

So what's the deal with Aldon Smith? He still something, something, something or no?

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

Can you fire a DC on a bye week...after a win?

LOL, was thinking exactly about this, but actually more about Downing than Norton. Does a win give you as an OC a stay of execution, and if so, how much longer?

The fact that we were the only team in the AFC West to win this week also helped as it lifted us from the basement to second place...for now...and the optics of that makes firing hard.

Still - to my eyes, the D still stunk this past game, IMHO. We didn't tacke, we didn't execute, we didn't scheme to free up Mack who was bottled up or, if that wasn't possible, leverage other players who benefitted from more attention on Mack. We let Miami come back at us when the game looked all but sealed. We made Cutler -- CUTLER, of all people -- look like Joe Montana in the first quarter in terms of his efficiency. No INTs yet still, I believe. 

So Norton can (and should) still be fired.

Downing is someone I still say move, but much harder -- some of the things I liked to see was the use of Lynch. Looked like we also identified early that Kiko Alonso could not effectively cover Cook so we went there a lot to exploit the mismatch -- showing adjustment and doubling down on situational opportunity than blindly following gameplan. 

They both should still go, but I don't know if that's easier over a bye week where you can focus on one of our tougher challenges this year in playing the Pats in Mexico, or whether you want that continuance through the bye and see where it gets you.

Either way, was excited to see more good than bad, even though there's a lot still bad out there. But we won a game we were supposed to win.

 

[Ed Wood]

Some numbers:

245

302

554

The first is the number of passing yards the Raiders allow per game.

The second is NE's passing yards per game.

The third is the most passing yards in a single game--Norm Van Brocklin, 1951

245 + 302 = 547

They've got two weeks to figure something out and here's a tip for them: Keep Sean Smith as far away from Brandin Cooks as possible.

 

[Ed Wood]

LOL, was thinking exactly about this, but actually more about Downing than Norton.

So Norton can (and should) still be fired.

Downing is someone I still say move...

As much as I've disliked Downing's play calling I have to give him a longer leash than Norton. This is Downing's first year as OC, Norton's third a DC. Raiders D in those three years: 22nd, 26th and now 28th. The needle is obviously moving in the wrong direction.

The problem I have with Downing is that he even has this job. First year as an OC and you're handed the keys to a high-octane offense? That's hard to live up to. Bill Musgrave had four OC jobs before landing the Raiders gig. I think first year OCs need to be given a Ford Fiesta and see if they can build a Fusion.  In other words, prove yourself before you're given an Audi. In hindsight this had all the earmarks of .

 

[Hankmoody]

We can't fire an OC after 9 games.  Especially when we haven't seen his offense yet with the dominant line he was promised and WR's that can make plays.

 

[Chadstroma]

• That Lee Smith penalty was a bad one.  And then two back to back from Cook... That serious could have been a game changer/ender.   
  

The most ridiculous flag I can remember in a very long time. I deaf, dumb and blind person from a mile away could tell that that was a friendly goofball playing around gesture. Just horrible. 

 

[Hankmoody]

The most ridiculous flag I can remember in a very long time. I deaf, dumb and blind person from a mile away could tell that that was a friendly goofball playing around gesture. Just horrible. 

I disagree.  First of all, this is a ####### football game and that's your opponent, what are you doing screwing around?  Get your head in the game and focus up, this is a business and there's a game to win.  Screw that guy, he's trying to beat you!.  Second and far more important though, you can't put that burden on the refs to decide.  They have far too much judgement already they have to figure out, you don't want them having to decipher this intent too.

 

[Chadstroma]

Norton is clearly not the right guy. They brought in Pagano to assist him.... I forgot what his title is.... but that doesn't seem to have helped. I see no growth from last year to this year. Frustrating as hell. 

When they let Musgrave go and handed things to Downing... it was hard to feel anything about it one way or the other. On one hand, Musgrave was not overly impressive with scheme or game plans but the team was clearly becoming an offensive juggernaut. With Downing, I didn't get it (Later read it was all about keeping him from getting pouched by another team). If you were going to let Musgrave go then I felt like it needed to be a clear upgrade and it felt like they were handing the keys to the brand new sports car to the kid who was still on his learners permit. 

Something people have not mentioned is that I am pissed at Tice. I have had huge respect for him as a OL coach and was super excited we got him. We have the talent but the O-line looks fairly average to me in the games I have seen. It could be scheme issues and maybe my anger at Tice is misplaced. Did I see some ZBS plays? 

Unless we run the table or come close to it- I think you have to go with a wholesale change of the coaching staff. 

Gawd, it was nice to see a game where the defense can't cover the TE and it wasn't us! Cook better have got the game ball- he saved that game early by taking Kiko to school. 

Lynch and our O-line need the carries to be higher because they get more effective as they wear the defenders down. It was clear that Lynch was not doing much early and you could almost see the effectiveness meter increase as they game went on. 

Mack isn't getting the numbers but dang he is disruptive on pretty much every play. 

 

[Chadstroma]

I disagree.  First of all, this is a ####### football game and that's your opponent, what are you doing screwing around?  Get your head in the game and focus up, this is a business and there's a game to win.  Screw that guy, he's trying to beat you!.  Second and far more important though, you can't put that burden on the refs to decide.  They have far too much judgement already they have to figure out, you don't want them having to decipher this intent too.

I disagree. Best games were always the ones where I beat my friends with a smile. I never needed to act like I hated you to beat you down. If you needed that as some sort of motivation... ok.... great. Not everyone is like that. 

And there was nothing unsportsman like or unnecessary roughness or any malice in what Lee Smith did. Only a moron would look at that and think it was something that required a flag. Next thing we will see is them throwing a flag because a player smacks the helmet of another player as a way to say 'good play'. Pure silliness. 

 

[RaiderBones]

Norton is clearly not the right guy. They brought in Pagano to assist him.... I forgot what his title is.... but that doesn't seem to have helped. I see no growth from last year to this year. Frustrating as hell. 

When they let Musgrave go and handed things to Downing... it was hard to feel anything about it one way or the other. On one hand, Musgrave was not overly impressive with scheme or game plans but the team was clearly becoming an offensive juggernaut. With Downing, I didn't get it (Later read it was all about keeping him from getting pouched by another team). If you were going to let Musgrave go then I felt like it needed to be a clear upgrade and it felt like they were handing the keys to the brand new sports car to the kid who was still on his learners permit. 

Something people have not mentioned is that I am pissed at Tice. I have had huge respect for him as a OL coach and was super excited we got him. We have the talent but the O-line looks fairly average to me in the games I have seen. It could be scheme issues and maybe my anger at Tice is misplaced. Did I see some ZBS plays? 

Unless we run the table or come close to it- I think you have to go with a wholesale change of the coaching staff. 

Gawd, it was nice to see a game where the defense can't cover the TE and it wasn't us! Cook better have got the game ball- he saved that game early by taking Kiko to school. 

Lynch and our O-line need the carries to be higher because they get more effective as they wear the defenders down. It was clear that Lynch was not doing much early and you could almost see the effectiveness meter increase as they game went on. 

Mack isn't getting the numbers but dang he is disruptive on pretty much every play. 

I found this about the Raiders running Zone Blocking Scheme from earlier in the season.

http://www.raidersbeat.com/raiders-moving-to-zone-blocking-scheme-under-new-offensive-coordinator/

 

[DocHolliday]

Let's try this another way.  Anyone think Norton should stay after the season?

 

[Chaka]

Let's try this another way.  Anyone think Norton should stay after the season?

No.  I was really excited when they brought him to run the defense.  In fact Norton and Tice were the only coaches brought in under JDR that I was excited about (including JDR). Norton had a great run with LBs at USC and in Seattle but it seems pretty clear now that his success was a product of Pete Carroll and superior talent of his players.

The talent on defense may not be good but it could play better than it does with better coaching.

 

[ICON211]

Drew Brees leads the league in completion percentage at 71.6%.  The Raiders are the first team in league history to have no interceptions in their first nine games and opponents are completing 71.2% of their passes.  The Raiders are also 28th in sacks.  

 

[kaso]

Drew Brees leads the league in completion percentage at 71.6%.  The Raiders are the first team in league history to have no interceptions in their first nine games and opponents are completing 71.2% of their passes.  The Raiders are also 28th in sacks.  

woah... slow down with all the good news!

 

[Bruno2]

Drew Brees leads the league in completion percentage at 71.6%.  The Raiders are the first team in league history to have no interceptions in their first nine games and opponents are completing 71.2% of their passes.  The Raiders are also 28th in sacks.  

Yeah with stats like that, something has got to change.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors]

The most ridiculous flag I can remember in a very long time. I deaf, dumb and blind person from a mile away could tell that that was a friendly goofball playing around gesture. Just horrible. 

I disagree.  First of all, this is a ####### football game and that's your opponent, what are you doing screwing around?  Get your head in the game and focus up, this is a business and there's a game to win.  Screw that guy, he's trying to beat you!.  Second and far more important though, you can't put that burden on the refs to decide.  They have far too much judgement already they have to figure out, you don't want them having to decipher this intent too.

I know that it's never the case on internet posting boards where you are supposed to be polarizing for effect, but I think you're both right.

Wish I could find a clip of what actually happened on the field instead of just Lee telling the ref he was only kidding around while the penalty was being meted out. But it was clear to me watching that the refs absolutely made the wrong call, and it was apparent to anyone that there was nothing malicious or that there was intent that justified a penalty.

That said, Lee -- like any player -- should never put himself into a position where these kinds of penalties -- misguided as they are -- are in the ref's hands and up to their interpretation. Just don't do it. Save the fraternizing for after the game.

Let's try this another way.  Anyone think Norton should stay after the season?

Hell no. He's a year past due at least. And I don't agree with the notion of giving Downing a longer leash because it's only his first year. The issue is that there is ongoing and clear regression on both sides of the ball that we need to fix. 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

How different would the defense be if they had signed Josh Norman instead of Sean Smith? Granted the timing and money prolly put them out of the running. 

The Miami game had a really weird feel. As mentioned by others it was some of the worst tackling I have seen in sometime. That is on the staff as much as the players. 

 

[Hankmoody]

I disagree. Best games were always the ones where I beat my friends with a smile. I never needed to act like I hated you to beat you down. If you needed that as some sort of motivation... ok.... great. Not everyone is like that. 

And there was nothing unsportsman like or unnecessary roughness or any malice in what Lee Smith did. Only a moron would look at that and think it was something that required a flag. Next thing we will see is them throwing a flag because a player smacks the helmet of another player as a way to say 'good play'. Pure silliness. 

Those were not my words.

I also didn't agree the act was unsportsmalike or unnecessary roughness, just that you can't put it on the official to determine that.  Just like when Von Miller offered a hand to Tyrod to help him up then pulled it away - the official has no idea if he's clowning around or if he's punking the guy, and the ref shouldn't have to make that determination. 

Wish I could find a clip of what actually happened on the field instead of just Lee telling the ref he was only kidding around while the penalty was being meted out. But it was clear to me watching that the refs absolutely made the wrong call, and it was apparent to anyone that there was nothing malicious or that there was intent that justified a penalty.

That said, Lee -- like any player -- should never put himself into a position where these kinds of penalties -- misguided as they are -- are in the ref's hands and up to their interpretation. Just don't do it. Save the fraternizing for after the game

It was - after the fact, when you already knew the result.  In the heat of the moment when the guy sees action out of the corner of his eye and the dude is doing a flying headbutt, even if it didn't land, he's gotta go with his first reaction.  Perhaps if one of the other officials had better context they would have waived it off, but none apparently did.  You gotta expect the ref to just call what he sees. 

 

[Hankmoody]

Let's try this another way.  Anyone think Norton should stay after the season?

Nope, I'm ready for a change here.  Gotta give Dowling more time though.  If Dowling goes in a full regime flush that's fine, but JDR absolutely cannot hang this on Dowling.