What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2019 NCAA Tourney Thread: Nation has to watch Virginia again (1 Viewer)

Really fun final four mostly.

Auburn has run quite the gauntlet and has one of the better backcourts I've seen on this level.  Their confidence at the 3pt stripe has been a difference so far.

 
Izzo was near-perfect in the end-game. Took the TO with 44 seconds to go, Goins hit the 3 with 39 seconds left on a really well-designed play that pinned Williamson and let Goins pop out, Williamson looked a little slow realizing what was happening, and couldn't recover in time. Up 2, and more than 30 seconds left, so plenty of time to win the game if Duke scores/or doesn't get an o-board.

K not calling a TO and letting the clock run down really put all of Duke's chances on that one possession. With Duke's lack of 3 point shooting, I think going for two quick and trying to get a steal/foul is viable, but killing off all that clock and then taking a 3 was pretty bad. Especially being so far away from the bonus, Duke was going to need a good chunk of time just to get Sparty in the bonus.

I'm not for always calling a TO there, but with the unique circumstance of having to foul Sparty 3-4 (?) more times to get them shooting FT's, they should've called time.

 
facook said:
I actually really like Zion, first Dookie I've really liked since Grant Hill.  There is probably less than a 1% chance he comes back next year, but I'd love it if he and the other frosh decided to come back and get their championship.  It's so weird to like one player and despise a coach and the program.

I was convinced that CBS/NCAA would make sure Zion and Duke got to the championship.  Happy to be wrong at this moment, but I will probably wish they were there next week.  Seeing UVA get ultimate redemption over Duke in the championship would have been my personal preference.
Click to expand...
Coach k? He seems to be likable when he's a guest on the Dan Patrick show. Don't see him as a bad guy. Calipari makes my skin crawl by comparison. Duke has been a great program for 30 years. They are like the San Antonio Spurs or maybe New England Patriots. You kind of have to respect their sustained excellence. That's hard to accomplish

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Izzo was near-perfect in the end-game. Took the TO with 44 seconds to go, Goins hit the 3 with 39 seconds left on a really well-designed play that pinned Williamson and let Goins pop out, Williamson looked a little slow realizing what was happening, and couldn't recover in time. Up 2, and more than 30 seconds left, so plenty of time to win the game if Duke scores/or doesn't get an o-board.

K not calling a TO and letting the clock run down really put all of Duke's chances on that one possession. With Duke's lack of 3 point shooting, I think going for two quick and trying to get a steal/foul is viable, but killing off all that clock and then taking a 3 was pretty bad. Especially being so far away from the bonus, Duke was going to need a good chunk of time just to get Sparty in the bonus.

I'm not for always calling a TO there, but with the unique circumstance of having to foul Sparty 3-4 (?) more times to get them shooting FT's, they should've called time.
Click to expand...
It has now come out that the play was not meant for Goins. Still worked out beautifully. 

 
I try not to judge refs in any sport too much since we at home have the benefit of instant replay, slow motion and multiple angles.  But I will say this and I've been complaining about if for at least a decade:

I hate in college basketball where a kid takes a shot, gets hit, but no whistle is blown.  Then the ref sees the ball not go in the basket, so he blows his whistle late and calls the foul.  Either he got fouled or he didn't.  I see this happen probably at least 4 or 5 times PER GAME.  Hate it so much.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I try not to judge refs in any sport too much since we at home have the benefit of instant replay, slow motion and multiple angles.  But I will say this and I've been complaining about if for at least a decade:

I hate in college basketball where a kid takes a shot, gets hit, but no whistle is blown.  Then the ref sees the ball not go in the basket, so he blows his whistle late and calls the foul.  Either he got fouled or he didn't.  I see this happen probably at least 4 or 5 times PER GAME.  Hate it so much.
Click to expand...
I love the late whistle.  And this happens at all levels, jr high to NBA.  Three things that get an eight or higher on my ref evals, 1) late whistle; 2) watching below the shoulders in the lane; 3) staying with the shooter.

 
Short Corner said:
I love the late whistle.  And this happens at all levels, jr high to NBA.  Three things that get an eight or higher on my ref evals, 1) late whistle; 2) watching below the shoulders in the lane; 3) staying with the shooter.
Click to expand...
Why would you love the late whistle.  If it was good enough to call a foul on the miss, why did you not call it on the make?  That's asinine. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
All I know is over a long period of time it always pays to put the team Coach Izzo is running in the Final 4 when filling out brackets.

 
Loving all the "this is the downside of being a one and done team" takes, as if Duke had no other talented players on their roster beyond Zion, RJ and Cam.

Here's the 2016-17 recruiting rankings, the current junior class. See that guy at #14, ahead of every Michigan State player on the current roster including the injured Joshua Langford?  Hey, that's current Duke player Marques Bolden! See that guy at #39, a few spots behind Cassius Winston and a few ahead of Nick Ward? Why that's current Duke player Javin DeLaurier! Go back another year and you'll find two Top 15 recruits who chose Duke, both of whom Coach K chased off by not developing them and then recruiting over them.

The problem isn't the three lottery picks, it's what the program does (or doesn't do) with the other 12 spots on the roster. If they did even a mediocre job of retaining and developing those players while recruiting the Zions, Tatums and Bagleys of the world this era of Duke would be up there with UCLA as the greatest dynasties in the sport's history.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Why would you love the late whistle.  If it was good enough to call a foul on the miss, why did you not call it on the make?  That's asinine. 
Click to expand...
No worries.  If they call every foul it really disrupts game flow.  If the kid powers thru minor contact, play on.  If it affects the shot and he misses because of it then ring up the defender.  IME, most coaches and players prefer it.

 
TobiasFunke said:
If they did even a mediocre job of retaining and developing those players while recruiting the Zions, Tatums and Bagleys of the world this era of Duke would be up there with UCLA as the greatest dynasties in the sport's history.
Click to expand...
Tyus Jones and Winslow were NOT considered 1 and done players coming into Duke. Luke Kennard was not considered a 2 and done player by ANYONE. Gary Trent Jr was expected to be at Duke for at least 2 years. Hard to retain players and develop them into upperclassman when they play so well as freshman and then are drafted high. (by definition that IS developing players in the short time you have them) And I guess you never saw Quinn Cook, Ryan Kelly, Plumlee brothers,  Amile Jefferson, or even Grayson Allen develop during their time at Duke?

 
Short Corner said:
No worries.  If they call every foul it really disrupts game flow.  If the kid powers thru minor contact, play on.  If it affects the shot and he misses because of it then ring up the defender.  IME, most coaches and players prefer it.
Click to expand...
Yes, but a foul is a foul.  And I'm not talking about the ticky tack stuff, because I agree they should be trying to weed those calls out.  But if a player goes up for a shot and gets hit in the arm, the ref shouldn't wait to see what the result was to determine if he should blow his whistle.  That's taking potential points away from a team.  

"Is it a foul?"

That should be the only question a ref asks himself before he decides to blow the whistle.

 
Tom Izzo has only had 1 recruiting class in his 24 years as Michigan St. head coach where his players have stayed their 4 years and not played in a Final Four. The consistency has been incredible.

 
ffmail4me said:
Tyus Jones and Winslow were NOT considered 1 and done players coming into Duke. Luke Kennard was not considered a 2 and done player by ANYONE. Gary Trent Jr was expected to be at Duke for at least 2 years. Hard to retain players and develop them into upperclassman when they play so well as freshman and then are drafted high. (by definition that IS developing players in the short time you have them) And I guess you never saw Quinn Cook, Ryan Kelly, Plumlee brothers,  Amile Jefferson, or even Grayson Allen develop during their time at Duke?
Click to expand...
Obviously if it's 2019 and you have to go back to the 2014 recruiting class to find counterexamples you've already lost the argument ... but here are those rankings. Tyus Jones at 8, Justice Winslow at 15. Luke Kennard was 21st in the following class. Gary Trent Jr was 17th the year after that.

If Duke assumes players ranked between 8 and 21 in their respective classes are going to stick around for more than a year to play for free when the 30th player drafted by the NBA each year gets a guaranteed $4.5 million, that's on them.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Izzo was near-perfect in the end-game. Took the TO with 44 seconds to go, Goins hit the 3 with 39 seconds left on a really well-designed play that pinned Williamson and let Goins pop out, Williamson looked a little slow realizing what was happening, and couldn't recover in time. Up 2, and more than 30 seconds left, so plenty of time to win the game if Duke scores/or doesn't get an o-board.

K not calling a TO and letting the clock run down really put all of Duke's chances on that one possession. With Duke's lack of 3 point shooting, I think going for two quick and trying to get a steal/foul is viable, but killing off all that clock and then taking a 3 was pretty bad. Especially being so far away from the bonus, Duke was going to need a good chunk of time just to get Sparty in the bonus.

I'm not for always calling a TO there, but with the unique circumstance of having to foul Sparty 3-4 (?) more times to get them shooting FT's, they should've called time.
Click to expand...
I agree but Goings had to hit that shot.  Winston has mastered the art of the arm block on his dribble..whatever way he drives he is able to fend off defenders with his other arm. Last week Barkley said he gets away with many push offs a game..but the way he does it is an art.

McQaid needs to do a bit more, when he gets the ball up top it looks like he wants no part of it. One thing Izzo made a big mistake on all year is Ward playing in front of Tillman.  Best thing that happened to MSU was when Ward broke his hand, that is when MSU took their game up a notch. Ward is terrible.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Yes, but a foul is a foul.  And I'm not talking about the ticky tack stuff, because I agree they should be trying to weed those calls out.  But if a player goes up for a shot and gets hit in the arm, the ref shouldn't wait to see what the result was to determine if he should blow his whistle.  That's taking potential points away from a team.  

"Is it a foul?"

That should be the only question a ref asks himself before he decides to blow the whistle.
Click to expand...
Actually he should be asking himself if the contact created an advantage one way or the other.  If it does, then yes, he could call the foul.  But how much of an advantage does it give the defender if the offensive player made the basket?  I see where you're coming from, I used to be in the same camp.

 
I lost a lot of respect for Coach K this year. When his team was still trying to run up the score against NC St. and he just nonchalantly strolled about his business I was pretty annoyed considering how butthurt he was when Brooks took that shot against Duke. 

He should have been screaming at Jones if he wasnt a big hypocrite. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
I lost a lot of respect for Coach K this year. When his team was still trying to run up the score against NC St. and he just nonchalantly strolled about his business I was pretty annoyed considering how butthurt he was when Brooks took that shot against Duke. 

He should have been screaming at Jones if he wasnt a big hypocrite. 
Click to expand...
He's Bobby Knight with better PR and self awareness.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Obviously if it's 2019 and you have to go back to the 2014 recruiting class to find counterexamples you've already lost the argument ... but here are those rankings. Tyus Jones at 8, Justice Winslow at 15. Luke Kennard was 21st in the following class. Gary Trent Jr was 17th the year after that.

If Duke assumes players ranked between 8 and 21 in their respective classes are going to stick around for more than a year to play for free when the 30th player drafted by the NBA each year gets a guaranteed $4.5 million, that's on them.
Click to expand...
You will argue for the sake of arguing because that's who you are, but I know for a FACT that the program did NOT expect Luke, Tyus, Justice, or Gary Trent to leave after 1 year. Parker, Irving, Tatum, Ingram, Zion, Barrett, Okafor they of course expected 1 year and planned accordingly. They thought they would have the other players longer. It happens when players develop and show out during the season. But let's not give Duke or K credit for that right? You're spoiled to Roy somehow keeping your players for 3-4 year$. I have no idea how you do it but I'm $sure there isn't any funny business from a $chool that has such a clean record :lmao:  

 
ffmail4me said:
You will argue for the sake of arguing because that's who you are, but I know for a FACT that the program did NOT expect Luke, Tyus, Justice, or Gary Trent to leave after 1 year. Parker, Irving, Tatum, Ingram, Zion, Barrett, Okafor they of course expected 1 year and planned accordingly. They thought they would have the other players longer. It happens when players develop and show out during the season. But let's not give Duke or K credit for that right? You're spoiled to Roy somehow keeping your players for 3-4 year$. I have no idea how you do it but I'm $sure there isn't any funny business from a $chool that has such a clean record :lmao:  
Click to expand...
Dollar signs? What are you, 5? Do you ever stop and wonder if it is unhealthy how much you dislike unc? I mean, at the end of the day, who really cares? 

 
ffmail4me said:
You will argue for the sake of arguing because that's who you are, but I know for a FACT that the program did NOT expect Luke, Tyus, Justice, or Gary Trent to leave after 1 year. Parker, Irving, Tatum, Ingram, Zion, Barrett, Okafor they of course expected 1 year and planned accordingly. They thought they would have the other players longer. It happens when players develop and show out during the season. But let's not give Duke or K credit for that right? You're spoiled to Roy somehow keeping your players for 3-4 year$. I have no idea how you do it but I'm $sure there isn't any funny business from a $chool that has such a clean record :lmao:  
Click to expand...
I didn't say otherwise. But if a program doesn't expect players ranked between 8 and 21 in their recruiting classes to leave after one year, that's on them.  Everyone else in the basketball universe knows it's a strong possibility for players ranked that highly.

I usually don't indulge your asinine desire to make every criticism of Duke about UNC instead. But if you think Luke Maye (155th in his class, never projected to be drafted during his first three years), Kenny Williams (93rd, same) and Cam Johnson (224th + transfer from Pitt, same) stuck around because UNC was doing something dirty to retain them and not because they were happy and had nowhere else in particular to go ... well, that pretty much speaks for itself.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Scoresman
2025 NCAA Quarters 2nd Draft
4 5 6
Replies
258
Views
7K
kupcho1
kupcho1
rockaction
  • Locked
Argumentum Ad Personam
Replies
26
Views
970
rockaction
rockaction
dgreen
Which direction is Christianity going?
2 3
Replies
137
Views
6K
SWC
SWC

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top