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2020 MLB Spring Training (3 Viewers)

And I don't disagree.  It just seems weird to make him out to be this evil person.  
Managers who foster toxic cultures generally get labeled that way. For me, this is the worst part of it.  Knowing that the team I loved largely because they appeared to be a bunch of fun loving impish guys out there just having fun playing ball was actually underpinned by a toxic analyst/operations culture makes me sick.  And that's all Luhnow.  Look at the Taubmann incident and all the turnover.  And I don't believe for a moment that Crane didn't know about this long before the report came out.  

 
Managers who foster toxic cultures generally get labeled that way. For me, this is the worst part of it.  Knowing that the team I loved largely because they appeared to be a bunch of fun loving impish guys out there just having fun playing ball was actually underpinned by a toxic analyst/operations culture makes me sick.  And that's all Luhnow.  Look at the Taubmann incident and all the turnover.  And I don't believe for a moment that Crane didn't know about this long before the report came out.  
Loved?

Are you done with being a fan now?

These past 5 years were so fun, I am sad it seems to be ending. 

 
Loved?

Are you done with being a fan now?

These past 5 years were so fun, I am sad it seems to be ending. 
I honestly don't know.  I've largely been a fan of Hinch and this group of players.  I think for me it depends on how the players respond to this.  

 
I just knew you were a fan and I'm surprised to hear that you might not be after this.  I don't mean anything by it, GB.  It just surprised me to hear that.  
Oh yeah, I'm a fan.  I think this whole situation has made me realize maybe a little too much.  I've been spending waaaay too much time thinking about it and analyzing it...for what? I think I'm even a little depressed about it.  And it should just be entertainment. A distraction from tougher real problems. So I think I'm going to try to put it back in the entertainment box and move on.

 
Stealing signs in baseball is legal.  It has been done since the beginning of the game.  It's the whole reason that sign sequencing is used to hide from the other team.  The only thing the Astros did was use technology to up their game.  MLB made the use of technology against the rules and the Astros got caught doing it.  They should be punished for breaking the rules......however this isn't a situation that hurts the integrity of the game.  It's something that has been done since the game started.  Every team tries and succeeds to varying degrees to steal signs.  The only issue was the method used to do it.....not the actual doing it. 

It's way overblown.  Punishment has been handed down.  Time to move on. 

 
LOL at some of the maroons on Boston talk radio. They thought Cora would get like a 50 game suspension. They've been talking that he probably will get more. Why he is still the Red Sox manager at this stage is beyond me. He's going to get at least a year for his role in Houston and another year for his role in Boston. It would be a good PR move to oust him BEFORE the league hands out a punishment. I would guess he is done in MLB altogether.

 
Tim Flannery:

They are fining teams who try to steal signs ...hahahaha..got out just in time .

Ok...I feel a need to speak out, normal is changing, and today's norm is not the norm.
For 26 years I was in the big leagues , 10 as a player, 16 as a 3rd base coach , 20 if you count the other years learning the craft in the minor leagues , from Boise , to Wichita. The seriousness of the writer, the expertise from the front office man, the commissioner, to those who have never lived it. Here it is...I have 25 World Series games under my belt, 7 elimination games, and a 7th game of a World Series. 5 World Series ,3 World Championships I know it don't mean much to those in front of a computer, with the answers and all the rules. So I'm gonna make a long story short. I had a video camera on every 3rd base coach every single night, I spent hours logging tapes trying to steal your signs and finding a way to beat you. You as well did it, in New York I knew the Valentine Mets did it, I knew the Cubs did it, I knew the Dbacks, St. Louis did it, I caught them, that's when the fun begins , you #### em up by changing signs, you tell the boys " if I put a hit and run on first pitch don't do anything, they will pitch out and now they don't have the signs, and you're in a hitters count" the list goes on and on.....if you aren't smart enough ( and believe me this isn't rocket science, it's being somewhat aware) it's your fault, now the game is turned into no breaking up double plays , don't slide hard at home, don't block the plate.if you are not creative enough to derail them, you've stopped thinking. As far as some of the greatest baseball writers who I love, read and listen to, and hang with. You are so off on the sign stuff. It's a high stakes poker game, big money especially as coaches . If you get caught , if your signs are stolen and you don't know in the moment they are close, they are on you...your not thinking, and now because of that the commissioner comes in not understanding, the writers write stealing signs is wrong. We had an advance scout that could watch your 3rd base coach for 3 days and be real close to getting his signs. He would send his report and I would watch you, or have a camera on you, if you haven't played , you don't understand how important this part of the game should be. You don't understand I would not only try and steal your hit and run sign, I would put our hit and run on that my guys knew, then in the same sequence put the other teams hit and run on so when they look at their cameras that we all used to steal the signs they would see and in their minds " #### they have the same sign for hit and run we have". It's propaganda war fare, its trying to beat you......so why you claim people aren't watching baseball because it takes to long, I say your taking the smarts out of it. ...I tried every night for 16 years to steal your signs either writing every thing you did down, or by looking at tapes because I had a camera on you, just like you had on me. Please leave the game alone, and every writer who wrote articles on this..be in church Sunday,because I know for a fact everyone of you looked at body language , vibe, and found a way to snake another writer to get the feature, get the win., leaving it with no creativity, no thinking, and the dumbing down of the greatest game ever......not that I know anything about it....Peace Tim Flannery.

 
LOL at some of the maroons on Boston talk radio. They thought Cora would get like a 50 game suspension. They've been talking that he probably will get more. Why he is still the Red Sox manager at this stage is beyond me. He's going to get at least a year for his role in Houston and another year for his role in Boston. It would be a good PR move to oust him BEFORE the league hands out a punishment. I would guess he is done in MLB altogether.
It's a shame.  Cora is such a good, decent guy who deserved to be a manager.  

 
I see they are saying there are possibly up to 9 teams total who might be investigated.  Only the Red Sox and Astros are confirmed investigations.  But baseball is reviewing all data.

Going to be a crazy draft when a third of the teams don't get first or second round picks.

 
LOL at some of the maroons on Boston talk radio. They thought Cora would get like a 50 game suspension. They've been talking that he probably will get more. Why he is still the Red Sox manager at this stage is beyond me. He's going to get at least a year for his role in Houston and another year for his role in Boston. It would be a good PR move to oust him BEFORE the league hands out a punishment. I would guess he is done in MLB altogether.
Cora is done. Also it wouldn't shock me if the Mets end up firing Beltran on their own.

 
Make me. 


I will let Tim Flannery explain...…….

Tim Flannery:

They are fining teams who try to steal signs ...hahahaha..got out just in time .

Ok...I feel a need to speak out, normal is changing, and today's norm is not the norm.
For 26 years I was in the big leagues , 10 as a player, 16 as a 3rd base coach , 20 if you count the other years learning the craft in the minor leagues , from Boise , to Wichita. The seriousness of the writer, the expertise from the front office man, the commissioner, to those who have never lived it. Here it is...I have 25 World Series games under my belt, 7 elimination games, and a 7th game of a World Series. 5 World Series ,3 World Championships I know it don't mean much to those in front of a computer, with the answers and all the rules. So I'm gonna make a long story short. I had a video camera on every 3rd base coach every single night, I spent hours logging tapes trying to steal your signs and finding a way to beat you. You as well did it, in New York I knew the Valentine Mets did it, I knew the Cubs did it, I knew the Dbacks, St. Louis did it, I caught them, that's when the fun begins , you #### em up by changing signs, you tell the boys " if I put a hit and run on first pitch don't do anything, they will pitch out and now they don't have the signs, and you're in a hitters count" the list goes on and on.....if you aren't smart enough ( and believe me this isn't rocket science, it's being somewhat aware) it's your fault, now the game is turned into no breaking up double plays , don't slide hard at home, don't block the plate.if you are not creative enough to derail them, you've stopped thinking. As far as some of the greatest baseball writers who I love, read and listen to, and hang with. You are so off on the sign stuff. It's a high stakes poker game, big money especially as coaches . If you get caught , if your signs are stolen and you don't know in the moment they are close, they are on you...your not thinking, and now because of that the commissioner comes in not understanding, the writers write stealing signs is wrong. We had an advance scout that could watch your 3rd base coach for 3 days and be real close to getting his signs. He would send his report and I would watch you, or have a camera on you, if you haven't played , you don't understand how important this part of the game should be. You don't understand I would not only try and steal your hit and run sign, I would put our hit and run on that my guys knew, then in the same sequence put the other teams hit and run on so when they look at their cameras that we all used to steal the signs they would see and in their minds " #### they have the same sign for hit and run we have". It's propaganda war fare, its trying to beat you......so why you claim people aren't watching baseball because it takes to long, I say your taking the smarts out of it. ...I tried every night for 16 years to steal your signs either writing every thing you did down, or by looking at tapes because I had a camera on you, just like you had on me. Please leave the game alone, and every writer who wrote articles on this..be in church Sunday,because I know for a fact everyone of you looked at body language , vibe, and found a way to snake another writer to get the feature, get the win., leaving it with no creativity, no thinking, and the dumbing down of the greatest game ever......not that I know anything about it....Peace Tim Flannery

 
Tim Flannery:

They are fining teams who try to steal signs ...hahahaha..got out just in time .

Ok...this is the 'ol swc'er I feel a need to speak out, normal is changing, and today's norm is not the norm.
For 26 years I was in the big leagues , 10 as a player, 16 as a 3rd base coach , 20 if you count the other years learning the craft in the minor leagues , from Boise , to Wichita. The seriousness of the writer, the expertise from the front office man, the commissioner, to those who have never lived it. Here it is...I have 25 World Series games under my belt, 7 elimination games, and a 7th game of a World Series. 5 World Series ,3 World Championships I know it don't mean much to those in front of a computer, with the answers and all the rules. So I'm gonna make a long story short. I had a video camera on every 3rd base coach every single night, I spent hours logging tapes trying to steal your signs and finding a way to beat you. You as well did it, in New York I knew the Valentine Mets did it, I knew the Cubs did it, I knew the Dbacks, St. Louis did it, I caught them, that's when the fun begins , you #### em up by changing signs, you tell the boys " if I put a hit and run on first pitch don't do anything, they will pitch out and now they don't have the signs, and you're in a hitters count" the list goes on and on.....if you aren't smart enough ( and believe me this isn't rocket science, it's being somewhat aware) it's your fault, now the game is turned into no breaking up double plays , don't slide hard at home, don't block the plate.if you are not creative enough to derail them, you've stopped thinking. As far as some of the greatest baseball writers who I love, read and listen to, and hang with. You are so off on the sign stuff. It's a high stakes poker game, big money especially as coaches . If you get caught , if your signs are stolen and you don't know in the moment they are close, they are on you...your not thinking, and now because of that the commissioner comes in not understanding, the writers write stealing signs is wrong. We had an advance scout that could watch your 3rd base coach for 3 days and be real close to getting his signs. He would send his report and I would watch you, or have a camera on you, if you haven't played , you don't understand how important this part of the game should be. You don't understand I would not only try and steal your hit and run sign, I would put our hit and run on that my guys knew, then in the same sequence put the other teams hit and run on so when they look at their cameras that we all used to steal the signs they would see and in their minds " #### they have the same sign for hit and run we have". It's propaganda war fare, its trying to beat you......so why you claim people aren't watching baseball because it takes to long, I say your taking the smarts out of it. ...I tried every night for 16 years to steal your signs either writing every thing you did down, or by looking at tapes because I had a camera on you, just like you had on me. Please leave the game alone, and every writer who wrote articles on this..be in church Sunday,because I know for a fact everyone of you looked at body language , vibe, and found a way to snake another writer to get the feature, get the win., leaving it with no creativity, no thinking, and the dumbing down of the greatest game ever......not that I know anything about it....and you can take that to the sign bank brochacho...
FYP

 
Except the Astros did it on real time when the catchers weren't disguising their signs. 
Then they should have disguised their signs.  I teach my 12 year olds that they should always give multiple signs every time the call pitches.  Regardless of people being on base or not.  It's a good habit to be in because you don't know who is watching. 

 
This reminds me a lot of the steroid era. It’s been awhile though and I don’t remember if one guy got singled out and made an example of in the beginning of it. 

I feel like mlb knows a lot more is going on  elsewhere than just the Astros too. 

Stuff like this is a bad look for baseball and it seems to me that I nterest in it has already been going down in the sport. I’ll be shocked if anything comes out about NY or LA. Seems like Houston is convenient scapegoat. 

 
This reminds me a lot of the steroid era. It’s been awhile though and I don’t remember if one guy got singled out and made an example of in the beginning of it. 

I feel like mlb knows a lot more is going on  elsewhere than just the Astros too. 

Stuff like this is a bad look for baseball and it seems to me that I nterest in it has already been going down in the sport. I’ll be shocked if anything comes out about NY or LA. Seems like Houston is convenient scapegoat. 
Not true.  Viewership was up in every major sport except for the NBA which has been dropping like a rock.  Don't believe the hype around people saying baseball is failing.  They wouldn't be handing out Gerrit Cole contracts if it was doing poorly.

 
This reminds me a lot of the steroid era. It’s been awhile though and I don’t remember if one guy got singled out and made an example of in the beginning of it. 

I feel like mlb knows a lot more is going on  elsewhere than just the Astros too. 

Stuff like this is a bad look for baseball and it seems to me that I nterest in it has already been going down in the sport. I’ll be shocked if anything comes out about NY or LA. Seems like Houston is convenient scapegoat. 
This whole investigation started because a former Houston PLAYER blew the whistle on the whole thing. MLB didn't start this investigation on their own.

 
Catchers have never disguised signs with no runners on or a runner on first. Baseball has been played for over 125 years.
You're insane.  It's done all the time.  The Nationals came out and said they've been doing it for years.  We did it in college back in the 90's.  

You're just making things up now to support your weak argument.

 
Catchers have never disguised signs with no runners on or a runner on first. Baseball has been played for over 125 years.
That is incorrect.  I teach my 12 year olds to give multiple signs at all times.  Not just with a runner on 2B.  You never know who might be watching and it's a good habit to allow your pitchers and catchers to be on the same page and use to multiple sign sequences so it's not different when someone is on base. 

Your job is to disguise your signs.  If the other teams steals them it's on you.

 
Flannery's rambling completely misses the point.  Watching video after the fact to try to get an edge is one thing.  Using the replay system and video monitors in-game to steal signs is completely different.  The memorandum that provided guidance to clubs cited in the report is pretty clear that is a no-no:

"In this respect, MLBR 1-1 expressly provides that “under no circumstance may electronic equipment or devices be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying other information designed to give a Club a competitive advantage.” To be clear, the use of any equipment in the clubhouse or in a Club’s replay or video rooms to decode an opposing Club’s signs during the game violates this Regulation. (Emphasis in original.) Clubs (and Club employees) who are found to have utilized equipment in the replay or video rooms for such purposes during a game will be subject to discipline by the Commissioner’s Office."

 
This reminds me a lot of the steroid era. It’s been awhile though and I don’t remember if one guy got singled out and made an example of in the beginning of it. 

I feel like mlb knows a lot more is going on  elsewhere than just the Astros too. 

Stuff like this is a bad look for baseball and it seems to me that I nterest in it has already been going down in the sport. I’ll be shocked if anything comes out about NY or LA. Seems like Houston is convenient scapegoat. 
What is the  bad look?  That teams steal signs?  That is part of the game and the reason that you have signs and sequencing.  This has been around since baseball started it is not new and doesn't change the game at all.  It is not a hit to the integrity of the game.  Sign stealing has always happened. 

Now if MLB wants to ban using certain technologies and a team breaks that rule.....then they should be accountable for the repercussions.  Hand down the penalty and move on.  It isn't really a big deal in the grand scheme of things.  Stealing signs is and always has been part of the game.

 
Flannery's rambling completely misses the point.  Watching video after the fact to try to get an edge is one thing.  Using the replay system and video monitors in-game to steal signs is completely different.  The memorandum that provided guidance to clubs cited in the report is pretty clear that is a no-no:

"In this respect, MLBR 1-1 expressly provides that “under no circumstance may electronic equipment or devices be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying other information designed to give a Club a competitive advantage.” To be clear, the use of any equipment in the clubhouse or in a Club’s replay or video rooms to decode an opposing Club’s signs during the game violates this Regulation. (Emphasis in original.) Clubs (and Club employees) who are found to have utilized equipment in the replay or video rooms for such purposes during a game will be subject to discipline by the Commissioner’s Office."
Right.  So using video equipment to steal signs is perfectly cool as long as they don't use it that day.  But used that day it's worse than the Holocaust.  

 
Flannery's rambling completely misses the point.  Watching video after the fact to try to get an edge is one thing.  Using the replay system and video monitors in-game to steal signs is completely different.  The memorandum that provided guidance to clubs cited in the report is pretty clear that is a no-no:

"In this respect, MLBR 1-1 expressly provides that “under no circumstance may electronic equipment or devices be used for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying other information designed to give a Club a competitive advantage.” To be clear, the use of any equipment in the clubhouse or in a Club’s replay or video rooms to decode an opposing Club’s signs during the game violates this Regulation. (Emphasis in original.) Clubs (and Club employees) who are found to have utilized equipment in the replay or video rooms for such purposes during a game will be subject to discipline by the Commissioner’s Office."
OK and the Astros are being punished for breaking this rule.  However, to make sign stealing into this integrity issue that is calling into question all of baseball is ridiculous.  Sign stealing is part of the game and has always been done.  It doesn't change the game at all. 

If using certain technologies is against the rules punish the rule breaker.  But it isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of the game. 

 
And again, the Giants used a very similar system to the Astros in 1951.  1951!  They figured out the system with binoculars and a peach can.  

 
You're insane.  It's done all the time.  The Nationals came out and said they've been doing it for years.  We did it in college back in the 90's.  

You're just making things up now to support your weak argument.
Whatever you say bud

You've been wrong pretty much in every post about this topic. Im not gonna keep banging my head against the can arguing. 

That is incorrect.  I teach my 12 year olds to give multiple signs at all times.  Not just with a runner on 2B.  You never know who might be watching and it's a good habit to allow your pitchers and catchers to be on the same page and use to multiple sign sequences so it's not different when someone is on base. 

Your job is to disguise your signs.  If the other teams steals them it's on you.
Guess you are smarter than most ML managers. 

 
Whatever you say bud

You've been wrong pretty much in every post about this topic. Im not gonna keep banging my head against the can arguing. 

Guess you are smarter than most ML managers. 
I realized a month ago it’s better to just not respond. He’s beyond delusional on this issue. 

 
Whatever you say bud

You've been wrong pretty much in every post about this topic. Im not gonna keep banging my head against the can arguing. 
I haven't been wrong about anything.  I said it's not a big deal.  Just because some sports writers think it is, doesn't mean I'm wrong. 

 
If teams put a guy in centerfield with binoculars and some sort of flags, would you guys all be OK with that?  Because that's not against the rules.  There's no technology there. 

 
There’s 8 other teams that we know of according to reports I’ve seen. 

The Astros won while doing it. Makes them a very easy target. 

If a team that lost 100 did it would we be so outraged? My guess is no. 

 
If teams put a guy in centerfield with binoculars and some sort of flags, would you guys all be OK with that?  Because that's not against the rules.  There's no technology there. 
Didn't Toronto get accused of doing this? When it became public they stopped (or changed to something else).

 
Right.  So using video equipment to steal signs is perfectly cool as long as they don't use it that day.  But used that day it's worse than the Holocaust.  
Would it be ok with you if the Cowboys had a Mike in the Eagles huddle when Carson is calling the play, and could relay it to the defense before the ball is snapped?

 
Would it be ok with you if the Cowboys had a Mike in the Eagles huddle when Carson is calling the play, and could relay it to the defense before the ball is snapped?
If it was Mike Tyson, I'd be ok with that because he's hard to understand sometimes.

It's hard to compare baseball with other sports.  As I said in one of these threads, sign stealing is part of baseball.  It was known and it was part of the game.  

 
If it was Mike Tyson, I'd be ok with that because he's hard to understand sometimes.

It's hard to compare baseball with other sports.  As I said in one of these threads, sign stealing is part of baseball.  It was known and it was part of the game.  
Mike Tyson was a light hitting middle infielder for the Cardinals in the 1970s.  He probably stole some signs in his day.

Coincidentally Tyson's top Baseball-Reference comp in his final age 31 season was Alex Cora.

 
LOL at some of the maroons on Boston talk radio. They thought Cora would get like a 50 game suspension. They've been talking that he probably will get more. Why he is still the Red Sox manager at this stage is beyond me. He's going to get at least a year for his role in Houston and another year for his role in Boston. It would be a good PR move to oust him BEFORE the league hands out a punishment. I would guess he is done in MLB altogether.
Can’t wait until yourteamcheats.com gets updated to include all baseball teams that cheat.

 
I used to be a big Rose defender until last year when it came out he was a pedophile.  Hard to support him after that.  I mean, it's no sign stealing, but being a pedophile is still pretty high up there. 
I grew up a Reds fan. Went to 100’s of Reds games. Was huge fan of the team when he managed and they finished 2nd every year. Rose as a player was a bit before my time, but he was the a legend. 

He’s a sad, sad figure. Don’t believe a word that guy says about anything. He bet on the Reds to lose I’m convinced. 

 

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