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2021 Las Vegas Raiders - PLAYOFFS!!!! (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Looked iffy to develop before the system change and is not a good fit for this defense. He was one of two holdover defensive players I really did not expect to do better under Gus (the other being Kwiat). It sucks we spent a 1st on him. But we do have Hobbs.
I was writing this and got busy with work etc... they have officially released him.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
How is 31 of 34 for 323 yards, 2 TD's and 1INT "off"? I mean... yea, he was off on 3 throws I guess...
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
All I saw were the highlights, and he looked a little off to me. This week was better than their last game, but losing to the Giants is somewhat inexcusable for a team with payoff aspirations.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The old days had talented teams with a nasty defense. This team is good but not great. Where are the unstoppable WRs? Where is the game-breaking RBs? The D is improved this year but far from great.
Not this time. I'm a realist, and the Chiefs are just bad this year. But man, I don't know how much more bad news that the Raiders can take. My gut tells me this is going to galvanize them and put some chip on their shoulders like the old days.
They just have that feel to me.
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Silver & Black
Footballguy
I agree. Edwards was very open on all four of his targets yesterday, including two deep balls and Carr missed. Badly.
Carr was clearly off his game Sunday. I don't think this game is a reflection on Edwards, I think he can be a very good WR for this team. Let's wait a week or two. I am willing to give Carr a pass on this one because of all that has happened the last few weeks. But he's got to get his stuff together, we can't win if he plays as poorly as he did yesterday.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
My Raiders fan friend just sent this to our FF group text:
“6 picks from the Raiders 2020 draft:
Ruggs - released year 2
Arnette - released year 2
Bowden - traded before he played a game
Edwards - starting WR, but under-utilized
Muse - released before he took a snap
Simpson - starting G
Robertson - reserve DB
Mayock & Gruden ruined this team fir a generation.”
He’s pissed. And a 35+ year fan. hopefully the next stewards of this team know wtf they’re doing. Mark Davis needs to hire a consultant or something, because the Gruden/Mayock experiment was a disaster.
“6 picks from the Raiders 2020 draft:
Ruggs - released year 2
Arnette - released year 2
Bowden - traded before he played a game
Edwards - starting WR, but under-utilized
Muse - released before he took a snap
Simpson - starting G
Robertson - reserve DB
Mayock & Gruden ruined this team fir a generation.”
He’s pissed. And a 35+ year fan. hopefully the next stewards of this team know wtf they’re doing. Mark Davis needs to hire a consultant or something, because the Gruden/Mayock experiment was a disaster.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I agree there’s still plenty of time to pull it together.
An exceptionally bad couple of weeks for the Raiders tho.
LawFitz
Footballguy
2020 draft went from decent (Ruggs budding star, Simpson starting OL, Edwards/Robertson developmental depth) even with complete whiffs on Arnette/Bowden/Muse - to a complete disaster due to a horrible and nearly unpredictable life turn for Ruggs.
But it was book-ended by some pretty solid drafts...
2019: Jacobs, Abram, Mullen, Crosby, Moreau, Renfrow - even with whiffing on Ferrell at #4 overall, this is probably the best overall rookie class in the league that year.
2021: Leatherwood (now that he's settled at RG), Moehrig, Hobbs are productive rookie starters; Koonce/Diablo are developmental depth. This class has potential to be pretty solid as well.
Even despite Ruggs' meltdown, I suspect Mayock's 3-yr track record looks a lot better than most GMs around the league.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I was just passing along the sentiment of one of the most die hard fans I know.
I agree Jacobs is a solid RB. Abrams is still maybe a better IDP FF DB than he is a RL S, but he’s still young & is improving. I wish they’d call safety blitzes more as he’s a bit underutilized, but he’s become a better tackler. Making him more of a box safety was a good move, as I’d said in preseason.
I love Renfroe, and I thought bringing in Yannick & Perryman we’re both quality acquisitions.
it’s not all doom & gloom, but that 2020 draft was pretty rough.
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like you were able to do last year, teams are able to get home against KC with just four rushers.....you guys are even better on D this year....Chiefs will be your "get right game"....let that sink in before doom and gloom takes over....
LawFitz
Footballguy
The last sentence of your post seemed to be coming from you and stated:
Gruden, fine I'll concede. But Mayock has been a breath of fresh air to me as Raiders GM. I hope he doesn't go anytime soon.
Ruggs' meltdown was not Mayock's fault as a drafter, and if you reinsert Ruggs into the equation to give a more fair 3-yr grade, I'd give his drafts a B+/A- collectively. Losing Ruggs hurt a lot - on multiple levels - but while that circumstance was incredibly unlucky, it didn't make him a bad pick - he was slowly but surely playing much closer to his draft status, regardless of what CD and JJ are doing out there.
Arnette and Ferrell were true Gruden/Mayock whiffs. Ruggs was the universe being unkind. Maybe share these posts with your buddy and help him feel better.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
yes. That was my opinion based on the Gruden hiring, and how atrocious the results have been. At the time, myself and many others that I knew thought it was a terrible hiring for way too much money for a pretty overrated head coach, more personality than he was substance.
the text chain continues with another Raiders fan who agrees with you:
”Gruden was the worst talent evaluator for non QB positions. Hopefully Mayock can do better on his own.”
I agree with that, but there are still some issues…
In a vacuum, I will agree about Ruggs. However, he could have also had Lamb or Jefferson with that pick. In that light, it’s still a pretty bad pick, even if Ruggs didn’t have this epic downfall. I won’t speculate about Ruggs character, but part of drafting guys is vetting them to see if they’re mature enough to handle the money & pressure of playing in the NFL, but that’s definitely me using 20-20 hindsight so I won’t count that against Mayock.
But that’s looking at things in a vacuum. Big picture, some of those draft picks weren’t made on BPA or more importantly, team need. Watching the draft with Raiders fan friends, the sense of bewilderment when they failed to upgrade pass rush or secondary was palpable.
That said, Mayock was certainly an improvement over your last GM. Hopefully he’s better without Gruden’s influence, as my friend suggests.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I just watched the video. Arnette brandishes 3 different firearms and says he's going to kill whoever it is like 12 times.
what a knucklehead. Way to lose your career, tough guy.
what a knucklehead. Way to lose your career, tough guy.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Jefferson.
First, NO ONE mentioned Jefferson. It was the big three with clearly most everyone taking sides on Jeudy or Lamb.
On the field, Ruggs was showing he was very much a reasonable 1st round pick (though I can see arguments for Lamb). Losing Ruggs like this just isn't part of the conversation. It just what it is.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I admit Jefferson is 20-20 hindsight.Jefferson.
First, NO ONE mentioned Jefferson. It was the big three with clearly most everyone taking sides on Jeudy or Lamb.
On the field, Ruggs was showing he was very much a reasonable 1st round pick (though I can see arguments for Lamb). Losing Ruggs like this just isn't part of the conversation. It just what it is.
Brown is a legitimate argument. He’s a substantially better, more complete, better built WR, and appeared to be so long before draft day.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Lamb was the right decision on draft day and there is no debate. Jefferson would have been a tremendous pick but there is no way the Gruden and Mayock clown show even had him on their board.Jefferson.
First, NO ONE mentioned Jefferson. It was the big three with clearly most everyone taking sides on Jeudy or Lamb.
On the field, Ruggs was showing he was very much a reasonable 1st round pick (though I can see arguments for Lamb). Losing Ruggs like this just isn't part of the conversation. It just what it is.
Chaka
Footballguy
Don't try that reverse karma voodoo in here. We savvy.
Chiefs gon' crush da Raiders mon. Mahomes got da gris gris booyakasha! Trut mon!
Chaka
Footballguy
Ruggs texted Carr, a very religious dad who was probably asleep by 9pm, well past midnight on a Wednesday asking for golf tips.like i said, it was a weird game for carr. he sailed at least 2 passes 10 feet over the receivers heads in the end zone. constantly behind players. starting with the pick 6. he was behind them, even on receptions. didn't even see a wide open waller, in the end zone. it's a long list.
i don't think carr's the kind of guy to be emotionally overwhelmed by something like this. he's is a pro. i doubt he and ruggs were close. they were teammates and work associates, but i doubt they were hanging out. i'm sure carr was sweet about ruggs having a kid. but the super christian guy and the 22 year old thug don't seem like a match. anyone think DC and arnette are buddies?
if they don't win this next game, it's ovah
I think they were friends.
Chaka
Footballguy
Carr seemed off completing over 90% of his passes at 9.5 yards per attempt against the Eagles?
What does 'on' look like?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Better than what I saw.
ETA: as I’d said before, I only saw the “highlights” on the evening news, so small sample size. But he didn’t look comfortable.
Oof! Goodwin just got clobbered. Fields gonna get him killed.
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Chadstroma
Footballguy
If Jefferson was drafted over Lamb, Jeudy and Ruggs people would have gone absolute nuts. Jefferson was clearly 2nd tier in the draft after the big 3. NO ONE was saying he should go before those 3. NO ONE. So many were freaking out about Ruggs and pretty much everyone had him right after Lamb/Jeudy. This is silly talk after seeing how it panned out.
Lamb/Jeudy is rational. Jefferson isn't.
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
Are you guys discussing different games? Carr did look off yesterday and the numbers (30 of 46, 2 INTs, 24 QBR) back that up.
This is uncharacteristic of him, which I think what is surprising many. Put me in the camp that thinks the Ruggs (and to a lesser extent Gruden) situation just got to him this week. Hopefully he/they can shake this off and come back strong next week.
This is uncharacteristic of him, which I think what is surprising many. Put me in the camp that thinks the Ruggs (and to a lesser extent Gruden) situation just got to him this week. Hopefully he/they can shake this off and come back strong next week.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Chadstroma
Footballguy
He "didn't look comfortable" and still put in 91% completion percentageBetter than what I saw.
ETA: as I’d said before, I only saw the “highlights” on the evening news, so small sample size. But he didn’t look comfortable.
Oof! Goodwin just got clobbered. Fields gonna get him killed.
(Only QB in league history to have 2 games over 90% completion percentage)Just admit you threw out a comment to back a preconceived idea that you had without having a real clue.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Versus the Giants he was way off. His normal accuracy was gone and he looked like Tribusky over throwing wide open Waller and Edwards.
What we are talking about is the "last two games" silliness that was posted when the game against the Eagles when he had 91% and was locked in.
Is it possible that also Edwards didn't quite run some of the routes as Carr was expecting? I agree the balls looked off but on at least one of them it seemed like it could be a chemistry thing. I defer to it being Carr's fault as he was just having an off game but we don't know for sure that some of the blame could also fall on Edwards.Silver & Black said:
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
Makes more sense. Carr has been fantastic but that Giants game was a clunker.
The brightside to this is that during the late stage Al Davis years, we would have whiffed like this in a draft and then also had already traded a bunch of our future picks to further twist the knife.Hot Sauce Guy said:
We still have our picks moving forward and the team is performing well. We can overcome a bad draft. Still a shame that we traded Amari and Mack and have little to show for it but the hole is not THAT deep.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I don't think so... one was just high. Even if Edwards was supppse to be a few yards deeper it would have still been overthrown. Plus why would Edwards all of a sudden start blowing routes?
The over throw of Waller in the end zone was way over thrown unless the route called for Waller to go into the stands which I find to be doubtful.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am very interested to see a Mayock draft with Mayock having the balance of power in his favor.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Gruden set this team back a year or two but the future is bright now that he is gone. The Raiders were never going to win a SB under Gruden and winning SBs is all that matters. Gruden was never going to gather enough talent and in the competitive NFL, you must have talent. You also need lucky breaks such as health and even favorable officiating or not getting screwed by refs which seems to a weekly occurrence in the NFL.
No matter what happens this season, the Raiders should be a playoff team in 2022 with the addition of just a couple of players. Not so long ago, the cupboard was bare when Mack and Cooper were discarded for future peanuts.
- Mr Doom and Gloom.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Tell your friend that gruden sucked at QB evaluation as well. Like badly. I give you Nathan peterman.Hot Sauce Guy said:
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
You’re right about Jefferson. But stop with the big 3. There was CD and JJ. And then everyone else. Maybe ruggs was 1b.Chadstroma said:
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
love it
LawFitz
Footballguy
CD and JJ are proven to be special all-around WR. So too was Ruggs, but as a deep threat. Not as a decoy or gimmick, but as a legit field stretching deep threat, a la recent Tyreek the Freak or vintage Desean Jax. That is why Gruden took him and he was being vindicated more and more each week. To say that he was a bad pick based in his on-field play is extremely unfair IMO. He was doing EXACTLY what he was drafted for. 4.27 speed with ball tracking and proper hands is ultra rare. Rarer than the CD/JJ types even.
Now the Arnette and Ferrell picks, another story entirely, but guess what, I hate to break it to you couch perfectionists - every draft has big misses by every team. It's a game of batting avg and slugging % and from what I can see, Mayock is doing well in both metrics.
Now the Arnette and Ferrell picks, another story entirely, but guess what, I hate to break it to you couch perfectionists - every draft has big misses by every team. It's a game of batting avg and slugging % and from what I can see, Mayock is doing well in both metrics.
ICON211
Footballguy
Gruden was never going to gather enough talent but they are only a couple players away? Seems contradictory.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
neither cd or jj were expected to fall to the raiders. one of them maybe. when presented with the choice of either, gruden #### the bed. not mayock, gruden. and then the clown took 2 more wrs, with the next 2 picks. just an awful draft. the 19 and 21 drafts are looking pretty good.
we'll never know what ruggs could have done. he was heading in the right direction, but he'll always be a miss, with an asterisk, due to his stupidity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
yet as something of a one dimensional WR he was a bad pick compared to CeeDee Lamb.
I don’t agree that the Tyreek Hill comp is accurate. Hill makes plays all over the field. Short & intermediate as well as the deep ball, and is used in the running game. Maybe one could blame coaching & utilization for that, but Ruggs was a shadow of the complete player Hill has been the last few years.
I don’t think Ruggs was more rare than Lamb’s size/speed/hands combo. The Ruggs over Lamb pick felt like the ghost of Al Davis drafting the best 40-time.
we all have our opinions, but Lamb should have been the pick. And he should have been the Niners pick over Aiyuk (though to be fair, the Niners took Kinlaw at 14, then Aiyuk at 25, so I have less of an issue with it as pass rush was a need).
So the Raiders weren’t the only team guilty of passing on Lamb but IMO Lamb was a better fit for the Raiders.
Now that he’s gone it would be nice to see Edwards more involved than 4 targets. He looks like he could be a very capable WR with the opportunity.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Yeah, I actually replied with that, but I forgot about Peterson. I asked him what QBs Gruden has ever developed? He built his reputation with cagey vets Rich Gannon & Brad Johnson.
Carr has been developing but I’m not sure how much of that has to do with Gruden, and it’s not like he’s a rookie.
I am too. Although I'm a little concerned when Mayock said in his latest press conference that he takes full credit (blame) for the Arnette pick. Now, he could just be saying this as to not to kick Gruden when he's down but no matter what I'm sure Gruden had some input in the draft pick. I'm hoping a Mayock draft with full autonomy will make more sense.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i have always said the tyreek comparison was a joke. tyreek is an animal. a freak of nature. a unicorn. ruggs was none of these things. he was really fast. ruggs started to show some flashes this year, but tyreek is on another level.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I hope so but I have seen a few people talking about how capable or talented he is but I'm not sure why. Every time I see him targeted, including v NYG, the coverage always seems to be very tight.
Carr is darn good at finding the open guy, I have to imagine of Edwards was getting open a lot he would have earned a bigger market share ala Renfrow.
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