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I think there are some big success stories too, in addition to Miami/Butler. Jrue Holiday put the Bucks over the top in 2021 -- even though he may not be considered a high-end "star," Milwaukee gave up a star-like package for him (3 1sts, 2 swaps, Hill & Bledsoe). LA traded the farm for Anthony Davis which got them a title in 2020. And the Raptors won a ring in 2019 after going all-in for a Kawhi rental. There's a ton of risk with these deals, but they've definitely gotten teams to the promised land before.
I am sure there are examples both ways. Rodman got traded to CHI and won. Shaq got shipped to MIA and won. BOS traded for KG and Allen and won. TOR traded for Kawhi and won. Only one team can win each year, so there will be fewer trades that yield championships than those that didn't.
The Nuggets got the Knicks' 2014 1st rounder in the Melo deal, and two seconds from the Warriors.
DEN also got a 2016 pick swap . . . which they used on Murray.
"Losing Herro will hurt the Heat more than losing Giannis will hurt the Bucks."
Move Jaylen Brown? He and Tatum have formed a great duo, but they're slightly duplicative, the Celtics could get an absolute haul for him, and he seemed agitated with the Celtics (Boston?) at times the last few years. Maybe it's nothing, but if there's anything behind the scenes, this offseason is the time to get a deal done.
You and @Yo Mama are correct. I glossed over the "swap" mention. Thanks. Carry on.
Trading Brown is going to end up being problematic. Boston has no choice but to give him (and Tatum) each Supermax contracts, and IIRC, they couldn't trade either of them this year. If they don't extend Brown with a Supermax, then they risk losing him for nothing. Not really sure what would happen if they just opt to trade him and not give him the Supermax (other than Brown getting really peeved). If they do give Brown a Supermax, I believe they couldn't trade him until after the first year on the new contract, meaning they would have to keep him for two seasons before they could trade him (if I understood what the media reports explained).
Thibs is still kicking around
The first couple of articles I found after googling the trade didn't even mention the swap as part of the trade, oddly enough.
What's funny is that the Nuggets' first round pick in 2014 (presumably from the Knicks trade) was the mighty Doug McDermott from Creighton.
If I'm reading this right, the pick the Nuggets got in that trade was re-routed to Orlando as part of the Dwight Howard trade that netted Denver Iguodola, and then the Sixers subsequently traded for it (the pick being Saric). But the whole thing seems very confusing.
I saw a summary on The Athletic that consolidated it down to: The deal sent Anthony, Chauncey Billups, Renaldo Balkman, Anthony Carter and Shelden Williams to New York; and Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, two second-round picks, New York’s 2014 first-round pick and the swap rights to the Knicks’ 2016 first-round pick went to Denver. Minnesota was also a part of the deal, sending Corey Brewer to New York and Kosta Koufos to Denver and serving as a contract dumping ground.
He is the God.
Joined the Heat in 95 and they have only missed the playoffs six times sense. Basically, constantly competitive.
They have lost in the first round 9 times though
Agreed. I think in general there's a too much hindsight applied in analyzing some of these deals. As if any one component was a silver bullet, when it's really just a huge shotgun approach.
Listening to Boston sports radio as we speak. They suggest benching the starters and playing the backups to start the game. Essentially, play the guys that are trying and sit the high paid prima-donnas. If the game is close, then they can decide who they put in. The point would be to embarrass the mainstays to try to better motivate them.
Thoughts and prayers
Not the callers. The hosts. They've already determined Mazzulla is getting fired, and the team needs to wake up the players. What better way than to have them sitting on the bench in the ECF. Also noteworthy from the time I was listening is apparently the owner of the team told Mazzulla he had to bench the starters to start the 4th quarter last night. Other Boston media folks said the players were seen complaining to Mazzulla and the rest of the coaches throughout Game 3. There seems to be a disconnect between the coaching staff and the players.
Which is worse . . . losing by not playing key guys for a few minutes . . . or losing normally and getting berated by Heat players during and after the game. The Heat players have apparently been talking smack during the game to both Boston players and coaches. I'm no sports psychologist, but if they play the regulars, they give no effort again, and they lose by 30, the entire team will have a loser's mentality and sense of doubt the entire offseason anyway. I am not endorsing the plan of benching the starters, but something needs to light a fire under the team. They collectively looked like they would rather be on vacation.
The smart thing for Boston to do is just keep playing. As a Heat fan the Boston team we played last night doesn't scare me, but a Psd Off Boston team could win 4 straight if the Heat take their foot off the gas. They had double digit leads in game one and two before Jimmy took over.
Seems like a weird and bad idea imo. Strategically—it also doesn‘t make sense. If the premise is that massive embarrassment is somehow the breeding ground for motivation—-then the Celtics should play all of their starters for 48 minutes in game 4 after what happened in game 3.
I am not sure why Boston came out flat last night. It may simply be an intensity thing. Miami's two 10+ point comebacks have to put a sense into anyone that "here we go" and the refs gave the Heat a lot of Home cooking whistles to start the game and it may simply have taken the air out of Boston. A team needs to have the "will" to win in spite of what the situation is. Lebron with Miami just steamrolled Boston when it was do or Die. Wade vs. Dallas in 06 was the same ("I'm not going out like this" was what he said before the heat went nuts). Jimmy, Steph, Kwahi, Kobe (RIP), MJ, Bird, AI etc just said F' it I'm taking over.
I can't relate to the mindset of "giving up." I am very competitive, and back in the day, I played to win . . . whether it be a pickup game at the gym, a game of horse with my kids, or a race across the street with an 85-year-old granny with a walker. I've stayed in games with broken bones, bloodied and battered, and literally had games where the officials had to throw me out for personal safety reasons.
They’re probably even worse.
admittedly biased but the talking seems to be going both ways....at least before half time yesterday.
I can get fans wanting the coach to do something, even if that something is dumb. Frustrating to appear to try nothing.
The only chance the Celtics have at dignity is to play their starters, have them show some heart, and win not just one but at least the next two games.
Miami is 6-0 at home. I think they end it tomorrow.
that was me, and I would agree, but hasn't Boston had this problem with multiple coaches?
They might have. I don't watch that much NBA anymore, and when I do it's mainly west coast. In particular, I'm a huge Nuggets and Jokic fan, partially because I live in Denver, but mainly because they play basketball the right way. I hate the isolation heavy offense so many teams play. I like free flowing, passing, make the right play type of basketball that teams like the Warriors and Nuggets play. It hearkens back to the Showtime Lakers and Larry Bird Celtics teams of he 80's.
You are right with the rotation shorting, but it's Tatum. He wants to be the man, and he's a great shooter, but he's a horrible facilitator and playmaker. Jamal Murray is a bit selfish and is a comparable shooter to Tatum. The difference is, when Murray is ice cold, he can drive and pass or run pick and rolls. Tatum has no offense besides shooting, and I have had enough of that step back travel bs. Murray and Tatum are both streaky shooters, but Tatum is useless when he isn't hit shooting. I really miss going to battle with the King of the 4th. Man, those were fun times.
