2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (1 Viewer)

[Navin Johnson]

The Lakers are one of the few teams that could seemingly have the pieces to swing a double dip to land KD and Kyrie. I am sure L.A. would love to jettison Westbrook, and they would have to include Davis as well. Not sure if the Nets would have any interest in entertaining such a deal and what else they would need to really consider it. There would most likely have to be a third team involved if the Nets shied away for taking back Westbrook. Could Lebron, KD, and Kyrie coexist (or stay on the court)?

They don't have the pieces to land one of them, let alone both,

 

[Anarchy99]

They don't have the pieces to land one of them, let alone both,

The Lakers have the salary matching capability (which most teams don't) to match up with KD and Kyrie. Whether the Nets would want anything the Lakers could offer (or other teams could offer in a multi team deal) is a different discussion. Short of those two going to OKC or HOU and starting over again, the chances of them ending up on the same team are very slim.

 

[Navin Johnson]

The Lakers have the salary matching capability (which most teams don't) to match up with HD and Kyrie. Whether the Nets would want anything the Lakers could offer (or other teams could offer in a multi team deal) is a different discussion. Short of those two going to OKC or HOU and starting over again, the chances of them ending up on the same team are very slim.

A lot of teams can match salaries if that is the rubbish that is coming back.  Their combined salary is $79M so any team operating over the cap would need to send less than $64M to the Nets.  

 

[Mr Anonymous]

Good signing, not quite the discount to stay with the Bucks though. 

Huh? Are you seeing the contracts fringe players are getting? The Portis deal is a friggin steal.

 

[Anarchy99]

A lot of teams can match salaries if that is the rubbish that is coming back.  Their combined salary is $79M so any team operating over the cap would need to send less than $64M to the Nets.  

I mean, sure, any team can send 10 dimes but most teams don't want to trade a dollar for a dollar. Not many teams are looking to move their best players, and I doubt the Nets would entertain a trade for 6-8 role players or guys on bad contracts.

 

[Kiddnets]

I have yet to see a worthwhile deal mentioned - if Im the Nets I take a page out of the Texans with Watson and just let KD/Kyrie sit until a real deal comes along - there is zero incentive to make these franchise wreckers happy and accommodate them to the teams of their choosing.  Id actually be pretty happy to watch them sit for a year which I know will never happen. 

Also the Nets could take a page from the 49ers like they did with Deebo and just ignore the trade request - worked for SF so far!  

 

[Navin Johnson]

I mean, sure, any team can send 10 dimes but most teams don't want to trade a dollar for a dollar. Not many teams are looking to move their best players, and I doubt the Nets would entertain a trade for 6-8 role players or guys on bad contracts.

MIA can send Adebayo, Lowery, Robinson

GS can send Wiggins, Wiseman, and Poole on sign and trade

PHX can send CP3, Ayton on sign and trade and Crowder (and picks)...

Brooklyn is going to want picks coming back.  Unprotected and swaps.  They aren't doing anyone any favors.  Now if you see them make Jerry West GM....

 

[Navin Johnson]

I have yet to see a worthwhile deal mentioned - if Im the Nets I take a page out of the Texans with Watson and just let KD/Kyrie sit until a real deal comes along - there is zero incentive to make these franchise wreckers happy and accommodate them to the teams of their choosing.  Id actually be pretty happy to watch them sit for a year which I know will never happen. 

Also the Nets could take a page from the 49ers like they did with Deebo and just ignore the trade request - worked for SF so far!  

The Rockets would love this.

 

[Kiddnets]

The Rockets would love this.

Rockets have their own problems - they could still end up worse than the Nets.  Sunk cost - cant worry about that - I cant see KD losing one of his few prime years left not playing....Kobe once demanded a trade that was denied - and he won a title.  

 

[Anarchy99]

MIA can send Adebayo, Lowery, Robinson

GS can send Wiggins, Wiseman, and Poole on sign and trade

PHX can send CP3, Ayton on sign and trade and Crowder (and picks)...

Brooklyn is going to want picks coming back.  Unprotected and swaps.  They aren't doing anyone any favors.  Now if you see them make Jerry West GM....

I am not taking about a trade involving just Durant. I meant a potential trade involving KD AND Kyrie ending up on the same team again. The Nets can't have Adebayo and Simmons on the roster at the same time (rookie extension rule). Using the math you listed ($64 million), what you listed for MIA and GS likely is not enough salary to get back KD and Kyrie. PHX could probably send back the guys you mentioned, but the Nets probably aren't interested. IIRC, their GM said PHX would have to trade Booker for them to get any discussions going (and that was just for KD).

 

[Navin Johnson]

Rockets have their own problems - they could still end up worse than the Nets.  Sunk cost - cant worry about that - I cant see KD losing one of his few prime years left not playing....Kobe once demanded a trade that was denied - and he won a title.  

Rockets have swap rights so they are happier than Knicks fans to see the Nets blow up next year.

Kobe's trade wasn't denied, he shot it down because he didn't want Deng coming back to LA

 

[Navin Johnson]

I am not taking about a trade involving just Durant. I meant a potential trade involving KD AND Kyrie ending up on the same team again. The Nets can't have Adebayo and Simmons on the roster at the same time (rookie extension rule). Using the math you listed ($64 million), what you listed for MIA and GS likely is not enough salary to get back KD and Kyrie. PHX could probably send back the guys you mentioned, but the Nets probably aren't interested. IIRC, their GM said PHX would have to trade Booker for them to get any discussions going (and that was just for KD).

So the Nets are only worried about what is cominng back if it is not LA?  You gotta pick a goalpost.

 

[Kiddnets]

Rockets have swap rights so they are happier than Knicks fans to see the Nets blow up next year.

Kobe's trade wasn't denied, he shot it down because he didn't want Deng coming back to LA

I understand that - but even without KD/KI Houston may be worse than the Nets so the swap may be moot.  

from what I recall the Bulls didnt include Deng until well after Lakers refused several deals and played hard ball - and when they got what they wanted in the deal Kobe didnt want to go because it wasnt attractive - I could see that happening here - Nets have zero incentive to make him and Irving happy 

 

[Anarchy99]

So the Nets are only worried about what is cominng back if it is not LA?  You gotta pick a goalpost.

I started off mentioning that a few people / places had indicated Kyrie and KD still wanted to play together, just on another team. I suggested the Lakers had two big contracts that could meet the salary matching obligation. I later agreed that many teams could offer a bunch of less than stellar options to get to the salary matching threshold but that doesn't necessarily help the Nets any.

You suggested some options, and I pointed out that the Nets want Booker back from PHX. It makes no sense for them to trade KD or Kyrie if they get little in return. They could get a ton of picks back from the Suns, but they likely won't come close to being lottery picks. Maybe they are fine in getting a 37-year-old back and some picks most likely in the 20's back. Yes, they are concerned with what they get back from any team. 

 

[Navin Johnson]

I understand that - but even without KD/KI Houston may be worse than the Nets so the swap may be moot.  

from what I recall the Bulls didnt include Deng until well after Lakers refused several deals and played hard ball - and when they got what they wanted in the deal Kobe didnt want to go because it wasnt attractive - I could see that happening here - Nets have zero incentive to make him and Irving happy 

It's not so much that the swap may be moot.  HOU could be doubling their odds in the Wembanyama sweepstakes.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I started off mentioning that a few people / places had indicated Kyrie and KD still wanted to play together, just on another team. I suggested the Lakers had two big contracts that could meet the salary matching obligation. I later agreed that many teams could offer a bunch of less than stellar options to get to the salary matching threshold but that doesn't necessarily help the Nets any.

You suggested some options, and I pointed out that the Nets want Booker back from PHX. It makes no sense for them to trade KD or Kyrie if they get little in return. They could get a ton of picks back from the Suns, but they likely won't come close to being lottery picks. Maybe they are fine in getting a 37-year-old back and some picks most likely in the 20's back. Yes, they are concerned with what they get back from any team. 

I think you are seriously overvaluing the Laker assets.  If salary wasn't a consideration, AD and Russ still aren't enough to land KD alone.

 

[Anarchy99]

I think you are seriously overvaluing the Laker assets.  If salary wasn't a consideration, AD and Russ still aren't enough to land KD alone.

I mentioned that BASED ON SALARY, the Lakers could move AD and Westbrook as the salary required to match KD and KI. I also said it would take more than that to get the Nets interested, most likely from another team. We are saying the same thing. I wasn't evaluating which teams were interested or candidates to bring in BOTH Nets players.

 

[BassNBrew]

I mentioned that BASED ON SALARY, the Lakers could move AD and Westbrook as the salary required to match KD and KI. I also said it would take more than that to get the Nets interested, most likely form another team. We are saying the same thing. I wasn't evaluating which teams were interested or candidates to bring in BOTH Nets players.

So another team is going to give up good players or picks to acquired laker benchwarmers?  You thinking Melo or Stanley Johnson are going to net much?

 

[Frostillicus]

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn

Minnesota Timberwolves star Karl-Anthony Towns has agreed on a four-year, $224M super max extension, his agent Jessica Holtz tells ESPN. Deal begins with the 2024-25 season and delivers Towns’ total contract value to six years and $295M.

WE DID IT!!!

 

[Navin Johnson]

I mentioned that BASED ON SALARY, the Lakers could move AD and Westbrook as the salary required to match KD and KI. I also said it would take more than that to get the Nets interested, most likely form another team. We are saying the same thing. I wasn't evaluating which teams were interested or candidates to bring in BOTH Nets players.

If it takes more for the nets to get it done, how is another team motivated to close that delta on behalf of the Lakers?

Any number of teams can make the salaries match.  Pretty much all of them can offer back more than LA.  Brooklyn has zero reason to acquiesce to either of their trade demands, especially a package deal which would limit what they get back.

 

[Chemical X]

If it takes more for the nets to get it done, how is another team motivated to close that delta on behalf of the Lakers?

Any number of teams can make the salaries match.  Pretty much all of them can offer back more than LA.  Brooklyn has zero reason to acquiesce to either of their trade demands, especially a package deal which would limit what they get back.

i think a deal for ayton makes most sense for bklyn, but suns need to pony up more to get this done and i would hold them up for 3 unprotecteds.  you want a top 3 player, pay up.  i think i saw ayton, the non felonious bridges could work salary wise.

 

[Charlie Harper]

Sad to see GP2 leave. Before the playoffs I said he was our 6th best player. He was a game changer. The roster move makes sense for Blazers, but is it enough? Looks like they've finally learned their lesson to prioritize defense with Grant and GP2. 

It hurts, but the hope us Kuminga and Moody step into the minutes. They are both capable of being plus defenders. Guess, Lacob doesn't have infinite money bags.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Sad to see GP2 leave. Before the playoffs I said he was our 6th best player. He was a game changer. The roster move makes sense for Blazers, but is it enough? Looks like they've finally learned their lesson to prioritize defense with Grant and GP2. 

It hurts, but the hope us Kuminga and Moody step into the minutes. They are both capable of being plus defenders. Guess, Lacob doesn't have infinite money bags.

They had no latitude in signing him, being limited to the tax payer MLE.

 

[Charlie Harper]

They had no latitude in signing him, being limited to the tax payer MLE.

That's what I thought , but I kept reading on Reddit Dubs could offer 10. I think those nephews didn't realize there's 2 different MLE and they caught me.

Also, we only had Early Bird rights, so we could only offer him only 175% of his league minimum or 105% of league average which less than $5 million.

 

[Navin Johnson]

That's what I thought, but I kept reading on Reddit Dubs could offer 10. I think those nephews didn't realize there's 2 different MLE and they caught me.

A lot of people were trying to argue that they could offer 110% of the league average under the Early-Bird provision but I'm pretty sure they didn't have his Early-Bird rights

 

[Charlie Harper]

A lot of people were trying to argue that they could offer 110% of the league average under the Early-Bird provision but I'm pretty sure they didn't have his Early-Bird rights

We did have Early Bird (2 years with same team - since he didn't sign with someone last summer).

I edited my previous post that Early Bird Rights is only 175% of previous salary (league minimum for him) or 105% of league average (~4.5 million). So still less. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Otto Porter to TOR. 

2 core rotation players gone due just because we couldn't offer more. Can't win them all. 

Let's see  who Dubs can get for the minimum this year. Bo Cruz would be a great add.

 

[Village Idiot]

MIA can send Adebayo, Lowery, Robinson

GS can send Wiggins, Wiseman, and Poole on sign and trade

PHX can send CP3, Ayton on sign and trade and Crowder (and picks)...

Brooklyn is going to want picks coming back.  Unprotected and swaps.  They aren't doing anyone any favors.  Now if you see them make Jerry West GM....

MIA cannot send Adebayo directly to Brooklyn due to the BYC rule.

The same rule applies for Ayton if they tried to do a S & T.

Unless the Nets unload Simmons.

To use Adebayo or Ayton (S&T move) in the trade, those guys would need to go to a third team instead of the Nets, again unless the Nets unload Simmons.

Here's the link explaining it.

It's actually the designated rookie rule.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-trade-rumors-how-the-designated-rookie-rule-will-limit-who-the-nets-can-deal-for/

 

[Juxtatarot]

Danilo Gallinari is headed to Boston on a 2yr, $13M. Year 2 is a player option, per sources
 

Whew! Bulls dodge a (slow-###) bullet.

 

[Navin Johnson]

MIA cannot send Adebayo directly to Brooklyn due to the BYC rule.

The same rule applies for Ayton if they tried to do a S & T.

Unless the Nets unload Simmons.

To use Adebayo or Ayton (S&T move) in the trade, those guys would need to go to a third team instead of the Nets, again unless the Nets unload Simmons.

It doesn't apply to Ayton as he can't be signed to a 5-year in a S&T anyway

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Lavine resigns with Bulls 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Otto Porter to TOR. 

2 core rotation players gone due just because we couldn't offer more. Can't win them all. 

Let's see  who Dubs can get for the minimum this year. Bo Cruz would be a great add.

Man.  Sad to see both Porter and GP leave.  But it’s the right answer.  Warriors need other players to step up, and have to sign a couple of cheap vets.   Both those guys have a ring now, they deserve it, I’ll be a fan for life.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Nurkic 4/70 resigns with Portland

John Wall has play 113 games in 5 years

 

[mr. furley]

you guys creating these trade scenarios are just using the ESPN trade machine, right?

 

[Kiddnets]

you guys creating these trade scenarios are just using the ESPN trade machine, right?

Unless Booker is involved I dont see the Nets dealing for an overpaid Center who wont move the needle and a bunch of late round picks.  Id rather let KD rot.  

Pelicans are interesting if they are open to moving Ingram.  

Nets have zero incentive to help KD out - yes he can say he wont play for a team but the Nets can just make him sit so its going to be high stakes poker.  

As for Kyrie - no chance Id want Westbrick back - nor would I want to help Kyrie out as well - going to be interesting with him as well.  

 

[Yo Mama]

MIA cannot send Adebayo directly to Brooklyn due to the BYC rule.

The same rule applies for Ayton if they tried to do a S & T.

Unless the Nets unload Simmons.

To use Adebayo or Ayton (S&T move) in the trade, those guys would need to go to a third team instead of the Nets, again unless the Nets unload Simmons.

Here's the link explaining it.

It's actually the designated rookie rule.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kevin-durant-trade-rumors-how-the-designated-rookie-rule-will-limit-who-the-nets-can-deal-for/

Agreed - Having Simmons on their team is severely limiting who the Nets can receive via trade for Durant (even Navin’s other option with Wiggins wouldn’t be allowed). Most of the players signing big extensions last night at midnight are off the table too. 
 

If the Nets want any of these top players back, they’d need to trade Simmons off first. 
 

Right now, AD is probably the best player the Nets could get that’s available, and the Lakers have said they’re not interested in trading him for Durant (probably posturing though). Nets are in a tough spot. 

 

[Yo Mama]

Per Bobby Marks on Twitter:

Here is the list of players that were signed to the Designated Rookie Extension.

Can only have 1 player acquired in a trade

A.Wiggins
B. Simmons
J. Embiid
D. Booker
KAT
J. Murray
D. Mitchell
D. Fox
Ja. Tatum
B. Adebayo
Tr. Young
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
L.Doncic
M.Porter, Jr.

Per Yo Mama: I think that list would include Zion if he signs his extension as expected.

All of these are guys the Nets cannot acquire if they still have Simmons. Oof. 

Reminder

 

[Navin Johnson]

you guys creating these trade scenarios are just using the ESPN trade machine, right?

I use spotrac.com.  Basically if a team is over the cap they have to send at least 80% back.  Only 50% counts in sign and trades if you are receiving more salary than you are sending and are over the cap.  

 

[ShamrockPride]

You know, I've mostly kept my mouth shut with all this super team stuff - I've never really liked it but whatever.  But, if KD and Kyrie really did push their way out of Brooklyn and say both end up in L.A. then I'm not even sure what to say - would be a total joke.  I get that L.A. still probably wouldn't win but one of the reasons I watch sports is to root for things and my teams.  I'm happy to just watch games for the entertainment but to get people to really love basketball and be invested it seems to me you want to discourage this kind of stuff.  If this happens and I was a Nets fan I'd probably just not watch.   /rant

It's sad to watch all those guys who came of age in the 2010's get their mind permanently corrupted by Bron going to Miami.

They all still just want to team up together and (attempt to) cakewalk to championships, while the rest of the league has moved on back to the power duo format with a deep bench.

They're like dinosaurs being left behind stuck in their old way of thinking.

 

[msudaisy26]

Unless Booker is involved I dont see the Nets dealing for an overpaid Center who wont move the needle and a bunch of late round picks.  Id rather let KD rot.  

Pelicans are interesting if they are open to moving Ingram.  

Nets have zero incentive to help KD out - yes he can say he wont play for a team but the Nets can just make him sit so its going to be high stakes poker.  

As for Kyrie - no chance Id want Westbrick back - nor would I want to help Kyrie out as well - going to be interesting with him as well.  

You keep saying this and it will NEVER happen. They might want KD and Kyrie to rot, but what idiot would take a billion dollar franchise down just to get back at a couple of disgruntled employees. The answer is NO ONE, EVER!!! 

Seriously, players would never sign there, players would refuse to go there if they are drafted by the Nets, sports is an entertainment and gambling business. You gamble on players and sometimes it doesn't work and you cut your losses and move on. 

 

[msudaisy26]

That designated rookie extension rule seems kind of dumb. What was the purpose of it?

 

[Kiddnets]

You keep saying this and it will NEVER happen. They might want KD and Kyrie to rot, but what idiot would take a billion dollar franchise down just to get back at a couple of disgruntled employees. The answer is NO ONE, EVER!!! 

Seriously, players would never sign there, players would refuse to go there if they are drafted by the Nets, sports is an entertainment and gambling business. You gamble on players and sometimes it doesn't work and you cut your losses and move on. 

Im not saying let him rot for spite - im saying let him sit until a worthwhile offer is there even if it takes months/ a season - It happened with D Watson.  Texans waited until they got what they wanted...doesnt seem to hurt their reputation at all except for being regarded as pulling off one of the greatest trade heists of all time.  Or simply dont honor the request like the 49ers/Deebo 

 

[Boston]

Danilo Gallinari is headed to Boston on a 2yr, $13M. Year 2 is a player option, per sources
 

Whew! Bulls dodge a (slow-###) bullet.

I really like this move for the C's...they have their core group so now is the time to add the Eddie Houses, James Poseys and PJ Browns to beef up the bench...Gallinari has his faults but what he can do is something the Celts very much need and the price fits perfectly with where they are financially...add another solid vet or two and they should be in a very good spot to contend again...it was odd when Stevens because GM because it seemed like he was just a Coach but he has been doing a great job and seems to really have a plan.

 

[Frostillicus]

Atlanta Hawks trade Kevin Huerter to the Sacramento Kings for Justin Holiday, Mo Harkless and a future first round pick.

 

[thecatch]

Kings get Huerter for a pretty well protected first. Between that and Monk I guess I will withdraw my criticism of not giving Divincenzo a qualifying offer. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

I really like this move for the C's...they have their core group so now is the time to add the Eddie Houses, James Poseys and PJ Browns to beef up the bench...Gallinari has his faults but what he can do is something the Celts very much need...add another solid vet or two and they should be in a very good spot to contend again...it was odd when Stevens because GM because it seemed like he was just a Coach but he has been doing a great job and seems to really have a plan.

Yeah, thinking about it more and considering the teams after him with the money being offered, I’m sure my take is wrong. He can still shoot. Whenever I’d watch him on the Hawks, though, he just seemed so slow and unable to defend. I was picturing how annoyed I’d be when his shot wasn’t on.

 

[msudaisy26]

Im not saying let him rot for spite - im saying let him sit until a worthwhile offer is there even if it takes months/ a season - It happened with D Watson.  Texans waited until they got what they wanted...doesnt seem to hurt their reputation at all except for being regarded as pulling off one of the greatest trade heists of all time.  Or simply dont honor the request like the 49ers/Deebo 

The Deebo one is new and we have no idea what happens yet. 

I wouldn't be so sure about the Texans, they are now being sued as well. Don't be shocked if they forfeit those picks after the investigation. There are serious allegations that they helped Watson with all of this. 

 

[msudaisy26]

Give the Kings credit for Huerter. I like him

 

[Juxtatarot]

Someone please explain how the salary math works on this Brogdon to the Celtics trade.

 

[Jayrod]

Someone please explain how the salary math works on this Brogdon to the Celtics trade.

They are sending:

Theis

Nesmith

Stauskus

Fitts

Morgan

2023 1st rounder