Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Assuming the teams and players can agree on the money, I think an in-season tournament in Vegas would be fun break from the regular season slog.
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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (3 Viewers)
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offdee
Footballguy
It seems like there should be some incentive for the winning team/conference that affects the end of season though....just not sure what that is. Home court advantage in the finals for the winning conference? You'd have players supporting their conference's teams during the mid-season tourney at least which could be fun.
They should just stop with the All-Star game if they do this play in tournament. Do the Skills / 3pt / Dunk contest as part of the Tournament festivities. The All-Star game is a complete joke and pointless.
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Today is the last day an NBA team can withdraw a qualifying offer without the player agreeing. It will be interesting to see if the Hornets pull it today on Bridges.
Agreed on the need for some incentive.
It also would be interesting if they made it 3-vs-3, or something else a little bit different.
offdee
Footballguy
I don't like the 3v3 idea. One of their major factors in wanting to do it is so big name players don't take so much time off during the season. Making it 3v3 just makes it kind of a sideshow then and not taken as seriously (and less need of players means many stars would just treat this tourney as a mid-year break)
offdee
Footballguy
Why do professional soccer players care about their in-season tournaments? Serious question... I don't know enough about soccer to know this.
And yes, they would definitely need to award the winning team much more than just a trophy, that's for sure. For the amount of add'l revenue they'd make on this, I don't think a $1M per player on winning team is unheard of. ($13M of payouts for probably making an extra $50 million???). But then again, this in-season tournament might then end up being more important to most of the players in the league compared to winning a title (which is just a trophy and no monetary incentive)
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
I give the NBA credit for trying and I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see this working.
The ultimate goal is a still a title and.you will see good teams sitting players because this tournament just doesn't mean as much.
The ultimate goal is a still a title and.you will see good teams sitting players because this tournament just doesn't mean as much.
Capella
Footballguy
I think they care about the FA Cup because it has a 100 years of tradition. This obviously wouldn’t. There are some other cups that don’t mean as much where the team plays reserves or young guys.
offdee
Footballguy
Makes sense.
Looks like the winners of the NBA All-Star game get $50K and the losers get $25K
Maybe do away with that game and up the payouts considerably to the 1st and 2nd place teams of this mid-season tournament as incentive. Maybe $200K and $100K (quadrupled).
Along with the winning conference gets automatic home court advantage in the NBA Finals. (similar to what MLB does with their all-star game)
ETA: If it's a one and done elimination how does the math work out for the total amount of games the 1st and 2nd place teams would need to play? Maybe whatever that amount is x $50K for the winners (and x$25K for the losers)
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
European soccer leagues do not have a playoffs to determine a winner, it is purely based on the season results. So there is often a domestic cup running concurrently through the year and a continent wide cup for the top teams the previous year. So it isn't really analogous IMO.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Do you shorten the regular season? Do the tournament games count towards standings for the playoffs?
Doug B
Footballguy
I didn't really know what the FA Cup in the UK was, so I went and looked it up. American pro sports just don't work that way.
Probably not a great analogy, but:
Imagine that every year in the U.S., there was a huge pro-am** 5-on-5 basketball tournament. Conceivably, every level from high school on up is represented. There are a bunch of feeder tournaments that fill in a bracket of 48, comparable in format to those that feed the Little League World Series.
So every year there are a handful of loaded HS teams in that 48-team bracket -- multiple D1 players per squad and usually led by a McDonalds All-American. Similarly, there are also most of the top dozen NCAA teams, and maybe one RPI ~50 team that got hot. There is also some number of G-league teams or CBA teams or whatever other pro leagues there are below the NBA. And finally, the remainder of the 48-team bracket is made up of the top 24 NBA teams.
OK, now you have your mixed-level 48-team basketball tourney. And predictably, the NBA squads win about 98% of their games against non-NBA competition. But that 2% gives the overall tourney a March-Madness feel. Every time a G-League team goes unconscious and beats the Celtics or Warriors, the collective American basketball fanship goes crazy. And maybe once a decade, one of the NCAA squads catches an ice-cold NBA team littered with injuries and pulls out a squeaker. And sometimes a HS team leads an NBA team at halftime before the NBA team gets serious.
But yeah -- in the end, it's always an NBA team that wins the tourney.
** I know all the English soccer clubs in the FA Cup are professional, but I always felt the gamut of their pro soccer leagues roughly maps to America's 'HS < NCAA < lower pro < NBA' competition set-up.
mr. furley
Footballguy
been trying to tune in and pay attention to summer league games
every time i dial one up the score is 39 - 12, or 98 - 57. it's the 2nd quarter.. how do you have 11 pts and how can you be done 40 already??
every time i dial one up the score is 39 - 12, or 98 - 57. it's the 2nd quarter.. how do you have 11 pts and how can you be done 40 already??
offdee
Footballguy
Even Commissioner Adam Silver thinks the NBA regular season sucks and is trying to throw some seasoning over it without ruining the recipe completely. In an interview with Yahoo Sports during the most recent All-Star weekend, Silver broached the idea of shortening the schedule permanently to incorporate a midseason tournament.
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Don't think you can count the tourney games towards anything since it's just a one and done tourney (like March Madness). Uneven amount of games played for the teams that got eliminated first game and those that went on to play further
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offdee
Footballguy
I asked amidst a longer post, but will have a dedicated post cuz I'm curious.
How does the math work in a one and done tourney with all 30 teams.....how many total games would be played by the 1st/2nd place teams?
1: 15 games played
2: 7 games played + 1 team bye ? (how would the bye be determined?)
3: 4 games played (Great 8 )
4: 2 games played (Final 4)
5: Title game
Is that right....5 total games to win it all?
How does the math work in a one and done tourney with all 30 teams.....how many total games would be played by the 1st/2nd place teams?
1: 15 games played
2: 7 games played + 1 team bye ? (how would the bye be determined?)
3: 4 games played (Great 8 )
4: 2 games played (Final 4)
5: Title game
Is that right....5 total games to win it all?
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SWC
Bromigo
the in season tournament should be split teams half nba and half guys from the and1 tour i want to see professor drop a dime to anteaternintendo for a dunk and a big fat guy on the court with a mic shouting ohhhh baby but thats just one brohan talking take that to the bank bromigos
offdee
Footballguy
Assume you're just referring to them being involved in the mid-season tourney?
They would get absolutely crushed but would be like a #16 seed playing against Duke in March Madness I guess.
Which begs another question...how would seeding work with the NBA mid-season tourney? Just records at the mid-season point I assume. And would one side of the bracket be all NBA East teams and one side all NBA West teams? Would be nice to see it all scattered up like NCAA March Madness. So, could have a chance of 2 East teams (or 2 West teams) playing in the championship game.
Capella
Footballguy
They would definitely mix the teams up. Silver wants to do that for the playoffs already and they should).
Instinctive
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Instinctive
Footballguy
Interesting - they said they would on Jul 2, but then about a week ago it hadn't happened and they were very waffle-y on it
Desert_Power
Footballguy
That said... how do you put that guy on the court (unless he's able to exonerate himself somehow)?
identikit
Footballguy
They really don't to some extent. They play backups in the early rounds for load management reasons. Even in the semi's you won't often see a full regular squad in many instances. Basically if the NBA was going to mimic soccer, they sit the studs and give players 8-13 on the bench most of the playing time.
I hope thy come up with something interesting, but it wouldn't even be discussed if you had the fans wanting more games like NFL fans do. Maybe not a fair point because there's a huge jump from 8-9 home games to 41.
mr. furley
Footballguy
much smaller scale here, but growing up my old man played fastpitch softball and they ran this mid-season tournament deal. it was very popular and competitive.
all teams are in, weekend tournament decides the first half champ. complete with trophy and shirts. pretty sure the first half champ got some advantage at season's end when they played for the overall league championship but i can't recall for sure.
1) it was a great way to re-energize teams that were not playing well
2) it gave them an excuse to get a bunch of guys together and drink beer like it was going extinct on Monday morning
no money in the mid-season tourney and that would probably be the key to getting multi-millionaires to give a #### in the NBA.. but they're still competitors and guys want to win.
all teams are in, weekend tournament decides the first half champ. complete with trophy and shirts. pretty sure the first half champ got some advantage at season's end when they played for the overall league championship but i can't recall for sure.
1) it was a great way to re-energize teams that were not playing well
2) it gave them an excuse to get a bunch of guys together and drink beer like it was going extinct on Monday morning
no money in the mid-season tourney and that would probably be the key to getting multi-millionaires to give a #### in the NBA.. but they're still competitors and guys want to win.
One million dollars barely moves the needle for Lebron, Durant, Curry, etc. but is a huge incentive for anyone in the bottom half of the salary scale. Not sure how you move the needle when the scale is so wide.
Capella
Footballguy
Yea there are all kinds of ways they could do it. You choose to be the 1 seed if you are in the top-4; guaranteed playoff spot if you finish within 4 games of the 8 seed; first team eliminated has to take on Ben Simmons and his contract etc
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Do people really hate basketball so much that there's enough sentiment to shorten the season, or is this like one of those social media vocal minority things?
Instinctive
Footballguy
I love it. Honestly, wish they made it a few weeks longer, it's fine if the draft comes closer to the title. I think more regional scheduling would be better too. Something between the league, teams, and players needs to happen to make 82 less demanding so there's less cause for resting and also incentivize not doing it. Because it really does water down the product.
offdee
Footballguy
I don't think it's about hating basketball and not wanting to see more of it. I think it has to do with the NBA season being a long one and the reality is a good majority of it is meaningless. That's essentially why stars take games off, load management and all the other stuff because they know it really doesn't matter.
The mid-season tourney isn't actually shortening the season...if anything it's extending it a bit by adding a 5 round playoff in the middle of the season. So, ultimately this mid-season tourney accomplishes...
- Slightly longer regular season (maybe the same if they just take All-Star Week and turn it into this tourney, but makes sense to have the tourney be 2 weeks long)
- More overall games (all these tourney games added compared to the one All-Star game which has become a joke)
- Less regular season games to make them more important (maybe something like 70 total games vs. 82 ?)
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mr. furley
Footballguy
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.si.com%2Fnba%2F2022%2F07%2F13%2Fnba-summer-league-paolo-banchero-chet-holmgren-jabari-smith
NBA Summer League: First Impressions on Top Rookies and Surprise Standouts
Here are 10 takeaways from Las Vegas at the midway point of the summer showcase.
JEREMY WOO
JUL 13, 2022 10:51 AM EDT
NBA Summer League: First Impressions on Top Rookies and Surprise Standouts
Here are 10 takeaways from Las Vegas at the midway point of the summer showcase.
JEREMY WOO
JUL 13, 2022 10:51 AM EDT
I was mostly joking earlier in the thread when I said Keegan would get ROY votes, but apparently he's a front-runner!
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Why 70? Why deem 70 as important? Knocking 12 off will suddenly make players try to play every game? What makes 70 more palatable than say, 40? Isn't 40 a good enough gauge to determine who the best teams are, while keeping players engaged & healthy?
In your 70 game scenario, will fans tune in to the first 20-30 games of the season any more than they do now?
What about history? Do we start a new record book calling this a new era separate from others, since certainly 70 games will make most current records unattainable.
.........
Don't take my post as an attack, they're not really pointed at you, just at short season advocates in general. Just my ranting thoughts.
I don't think a shortening to 70 games (which I agree seems a likely number, or in that neighborhood), really moves the needle at all. 70 games is still very long. That's just basketball. You like it or you don't. Unless you're cutting that number by a significant amount, it doesn't change anything. People will still be less engaged in the early-mid season. That's just how it is in long season sports (ie everything except football).
We're not saving or extending careers here by cutting 10-20 games off a schedule. Guys are already playing for 20 years now, occasionally into their 40s.
offdee
Footballguy
Yep I do agree with all this. I think it’s really less about regular season games than it is a mid season money grab knowing the All- Star week has turned boring. In turn they subtly try to address the ones who want to see a shorter reg season without really shortening the season at all (which would mean losing money)
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Maybe it won't be all 30 teams. Maybe it's the bottom 8 teams and the winner gets a post season spot locked up (meaning one less playoff spot available in that conference). Maybe they will rotate teams each year.
If they do make it all the teams, maybe the tournament winner gets homecourt advantage in the playoffs (if they make it) but not necessarily the #1 seed.
They need to do something to get the good teams to participate and try. Similarly, the big names could all just take that stretch and rest up for X amount of days. I think they will have a tough sell on guys making mega bucks to participate in games that don't matter for anything.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I disagree with your last paragraph. Careers are already being extended because of load management, minutes restrictions, advances in medicine, better training, the calling of flagrant fouls. Shaving off 12 games means every 7 years is 1 less year of wear and tear on a player.
We can also see it in the quality of play in players as they age. This would just add to it.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I think all of the leagues should shorten their seasons. 82 games of hockey and 162 games of baseball is basically torture. Football should have stayed at 16 or down to 14 and expanded the playoffs.
offdee
Footballguy
They already said it would be an every team tournament if it happens.
The play in tourney is already a thing for a smaller tournament format and that’s not going away.
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Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
I wonder how many back-to-backs a 70 game schedule eliminates though. It might be significant.
offdee
Footballguy
Solid thought. Another reason the mid season tourney should be longer than a week (the 1st and 2nd place teams would need to play 5 games total)
But then there’s the issue of all the one and done players basically having 2 weeks to get bored and in trouble.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Some of us just like watching basketball games, even if a particular game doesn't have a significant impact on the post season. For us, more games is nice. Even if all the stars aren't playing in a particular game, there's still stuff worth watching, some times its fun to see what some of the back of / out of the rotation guys can do from time to time. Not all the time, maybe not most of the time, but a game like that here or there isn't some kind of hardship to bear.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
One of the options as of a few weeks ago was:
"The midseason tournament would mirror something similar to what European soccer does, with the NBA discussing the option of holding an eight-team, single -elimination tournament that would pay players $1 million each for the winning team, per Wojnarowski."
NBA plans to revisit the idea of having a midseason tournament
Today, reports came out that the league is considering a Champions soccer style tournament. It might not be all NBA teams in such a tournament.
What would a Champions League-style NBA tournament look like?
I guess there are several options open for discussion.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
With what the All Star are making, $1mil isn't much and expect to see many drop out. Will still be better than what All Star weekend has become.
NBA has a big salary problem. Giving Dame $60+m/yr is just laughable. Sorry not sorry to any of his fans. List goes on Toby Harris, Rubi Gobert, etc....
NBA has a big salary problem. Giving Dame $60+m/yr is just laughable. Sorry not sorry to any of his fans. List goes on Toby Harris, Rubi Gobert, etc....
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