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2022 FBG, 172 to 1 Beatles Countdown 1-25 lists... And 173 to 1 Countdown from 1-64 lists! (2 Viewers)

I remember not liking it all that much when it came out, mostly because I had hoped for something more. I remember the classic rock radio station playing it for the first time with a ton of hype, and the DJ (who was also supposedly hearing it for the first time along with us) was definitely underwhelmed, along the lines of ... "ok then... gonna have to hear that a few times I suppose".  

I like it much more now. Especially for what it is. 
Pretty much the way I feel. At the time, I thought it was a bit blasphemous, didn't sound all that unique from some existing material, and a clear money grab, which it kind of was. But I do appreciate it much more now because there is so much lost material that we have never gotten to hear. That was also made clear in Get Back.

 
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Shaft41 said:
Tune In Vol. 1 by Mark Lewisohn is all about the early years of the Beatles up until they started to explode at the beginning of 1963.  It's the best source I've found to learn about the Hamburg years, but I know you said you preferred video, plus, this book is like 900 pages long.  But it's excellent.  


Guido Merkins said:
There is a book called How They Became them Beatles which is good

Also Mark Lewison's Tune In is good, but really long.  But it covers the Hamburg years.

As far as movies, Nowhere Boy is good, but fictionalized in certain spots.  The first episode of the Beatles Anthology also covers it.  

Those are the ones I've seen off the top of my head.  Most biographies are gonna cover that, but I've found the Lewison book the most well-researched.  


Lewisohn is the gold standard of Beatles books, I think.

@ProstheticRGK, you might also want to check out the Anthology book that came out 20 years ago.  It's recollections from the Beatles themselves as well as those around them (Martin, Aspinall, Taylor, etc.).  It does have some of their own descriptions of the early years including Hamburg, and a chapter for each Beatle that describes their upbringing (which is not what you asked for but I found interesting).  And, since you said you might prefer a visual, there are lots of pictures!  :)

 
Getzlaf15 said:
Free As A Bird
2022 Ranking: 167T
2022 Lists: 1
2022 Points: 4
Ranked Highest by: Krista/Mom/Hub
2019 Ranking/Lists/Pts: NR
Nothing too outlandish here. Mostly folks replicating The Beatles version and not a lot of risk taking. As a former cellist, I'm partial to the Ofra Harnoy recording.

King CrimsonStarshine Orchestra & SingersPan Pipes, Randy JacksonZero State Reflex & The Green Mountain Boys, The Fab FourArkivetRoyal Philharmonic Orchestra, DubstarGeorgiy KoldunHaley Reinhart & Casey Abrams, The Parrots[MAGe], Fran Bulosliron yovel, Brian KennedyPat BenestaBossatango Lounge ClubLindsay & IsaacRupert ParkerOfra HarnoyThurston Lava Tube

IMO, the best covers are ones that are either 1) similar to the original spirit of the recording but a band made it in their own sound / style or 2) a complete reimagining of the song in an entirely different direction that it's hard to tell its even a cover. Note for note covers don't do much for me, as I'd listen to the original recording . . . why listen to an imitation? Worst still are people that try to record the song the same way as the original, but they only have 10% of the talent and it ends up 1% as good.

 
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This Boy is a really lovely song.  My first thought was that it reminded me of the Everly Brothers,


They were definitely trying to do the Everly Brothers in several of their songs.  Paul talks about this with respect to "Love Me Do," "Baby's in Black" and others as well.  He's said recently that they thought the Everlys were the greatest at the time and that he still does.

 
ProstheticRGK said:
Never saw the Free As A Bird video before, that is cool. Picking out all the little Beatle references felt wistful and melancholy, which fits the song.
We could probably spin off a thread for finding all the references (like that picture that went around a couple years ago with 40+ song references).  A bit tricker with video unless you do a lot of pausing.

 
16 minutes ago, jwb said:
I remember not liking it all that much when it came out, mostly because I had hoped for something more. I remember the classic rock radio station playing it for the first time with a ton of hype, and the DJ (who was also supposedly hearing it for the first time along with us) was definitely underwhelmed, along the lines of ... "ok then... gonna have to hear that a few times I suppose".  

I like it much more now. Especially for what it is. 
Expand  
Pretty much the way I feel. At the time, I thought it was a bit blasphemous, didn't sound all that unique from some existing material, and a clear money grab, which it kind of was. But I do appreciate it much more now because there is so much lost material that we have never gotten to hear. That was also made clear in Get Back.


+1 on all of these thoughts.  I used to think of them as blasphemy, too, but have come to appreciate them much more.

 
They were definitely trying to do the Everly Brothers in several of their songs.  Paul talks about this with respect to "Love Me Do," "Baby's in Black" and others as well.  He's said recently that they thought the Everlys were the greatest at the time and that he still does.
This is a good observation.  I've always said that if Buddy Holly and the Crickets had a love child with the Everly Brothers, you'd get something pretty close to the Beatles....

 
Nothing too outlandish here. Mostly folks replicating The Beatles version and not a lot of risk taking. As a former cellist, I'm partial to the Ofra Harnoy recording.

King CrimsonStarshine Orchestra & SingersPan Pipes, Randy JacksonZero State Reflex & The Green Mountain Boys, The Fab FourArkivetRoyal Philharmonic Orchestra, DubstarGeorgiy KoldunHaley Reinhart & Casey Abrams, The Parrots[MAGe], Fran Bulosliron yovel, Brian KennedyPat BenestaBossatango Lounge ClubLindsay & IsaacRupert ParkerOfra HarnoyThurston Lava Tube

IMO, the best covers are ones that are either 1) similar to the original spirit of the recording but a band made it in their own or 2) a complete reimagining of the song in an entirely different direction that it's hard to tell its even a cover. Note for note covers don't do much for me, as I'd listen to the original recording . . . why listen to an imitation? Worst still are people that try to record the song the same way as the original, but they only have 10% of the talent and it ends up 1% as good.


I feel the same about covers.  Listening to the cello one right now.  Nice!

 
They were definitely trying to do the Everly Brothers in several of their songs.  Paul talks about this with respect to "Love Me Do," "Baby's in Black" and others as well.  He's said recently that they thought the Everlys were the greatest at the time and that he still does.
This is a good observation.  I've always said that if Buddy Holly and the Crickets had a love child with the Everly Brothers, you'd get something pretty close to the Beatles....


I almost mentioned Buddy Holly in my post!  I actually do talk about both him and the Everlys in my new write-up of "Love Me Do."  He probably influenced them more than any other artist, at least in the beginning.

 
This is a good observation.  I've always said that if Buddy Holly and the Crickets had a love child with the Everly Brothers, you'd get something pretty close to the Beatles....
I was reading a contemporaneous newspaper account of the first trip to the states (Feb 1964) and the guy wrote “if the Merseyside sound seems familiar, that’s bc it’s based on American rock n roll circa 1956.”

 
I almost mentioned Buddy Holly in my post!  I actually do talk about both him and the Everlys in my new write-up of "Love Me Do."  He probably influenced them more than any other artist, at least in the beginning.
The ironic thing about this is they only covered one Holly song in their recording career, and it was a very obscure one in Words of Love....

 
I was reading a contemporaneous newspaper account of the first trip to the states (Feb 1964) and the guy wrote “if the Merseyside sound seems familiar, that’s bc it’s based on American rock n roll circa 1956.”
Absolutely.  The Beatles were amazed at how little the Americans knew their own music, especially the black artists.....

 
We could probably spin off a thread for finding all the references (like that picture that went around a couple years ago with 40+ song references).  A bit tricker with video unless you do a lot of pausing.
In the comments on the youtube video, someone breaks down the references and links them to each part in the song. Not sure how complete but looks very detailed

 
Pulled the trigger on the Lewison book and the Anthology book. Thanks all for the recs!!!
You won't be sorry.  Especially the Lewison book.  

Can't wait for Volumes 2 and 3 of the Lewisohn book, although it'll probably be years before we get both of them.  Lewisohn is still relatively young, so hopefully he stays in good health......

 
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I was reading a contemporaneous newspaper account of the first trip to the states (Feb 1964) and the guy wrote “if the Merseyside sound seems familiar, that’s bc it’s based on American rock n roll circa 1956.”
Absolutely.  The Beatles were amazed at how little the Americans knew their own music, especially the black artists.....


My updated write-up of "Anna (Go to Him)" discusses this.  :)  

ETA:  Stay tuned!

 
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My updated write-up of "Anna (Go to Him)" discusses this.  :)  
I've enjoyed very much re-reading your original thoughts and reading your supplemental thoughts.  I haven't had time to read them on the master doc because I'm still writing.  I'm hoping to finish writing as soon as I can so I can just enjoy it like everyone else.

Thanks for all you do!!!!

 
You won't be sorry.  Especially the Lewison book.  

Can't wait for Volumes 2 and 3 of the Lewisohn book, although it'll probably be years before we get both of them.  Lewisohn is still relatively young, so hopefully he stays in good health......
I'm embarrassed, and yet not, to say that I check Lewisohn's website about once a month to see if there's an update on when Volume 2 might be coming out.  So far, it's still saying possibly in 2023, but probably later.  That probably puts volume 3 about 2034, or approximately the same year a 94 year old Ringo Starr releases his 267th album that references peace, love and boogaloo.  

 
I'm embarrassed, and yet not, to say that I check Lewisohn's website about once a month to see if there's an update on when Volume 2 might be coming out.  So far, it's still saying possibly in 2023, but probably later.  That probably puts volume 3 about 2034, or approximately the same year a 94 year old Ringo Starr releases his 267th album that references peace, love and boogaloo.  
I don't know about once a month, but I probably check it every few months.

But reading Volume 1, you can see why it takes so long.  He's, not only weeding through all the known sources, he's trying to find and uncover sources that aren't known.  

But it's done meticulously and when he's finished, we should have the definitive history of the band.....But we might have to wait until 2034......when I'm 64!!!!!!

 
I've enjoyed very much re-reading your original thoughts and reading your supplemental thoughts.  I haven't had time to read them on the master doc because I'm still writing.  I'm hoping to finish writing as soon as I can so I can just enjoy it like everyone else.

Thanks for all you do!!!!


I've not been reading yours either, so I can enjoy them along with everyone else.  Also I don't want what you say to affect anything I write.  If we double-up on a point, no biggie.  If we disagree on a point, no biggie.

 
Absolutely.  The Beatles were amazed at how little the Americans knew their own music, especially the black artists.....
Bit unrelated but just to explain something about the early years…terrestrial radio in the U.K. 1962-64 was different from the States. For example, there were five Top 40 / Top 100 AM stations around NYC. Nothing comparable in Liverpool or Newcastle or Scotland. U.S. record companies didn’t distribute into overseas markets. When the Beatles covered Chet Atkins or Motown, that was the first time U.K. kids were hearing rockabilly or The Motown sound. The Ronnettes came over and the Stones were second bill.

Timing is everything. The Beatles were the first rock n roll band British kids could call their own.

 
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I don't know about once a month, but I probably check it every few months.

But reading Volume 1, you can see why it takes so long.  He's, not only weeding through all the known sources, he's trying to find and uncover sources that aren't known.  

But it's done meticulously and when he's finished, we should have the definitive history of the band.....But we might have to wait until 2034......when I'm 64!!!!!!
Lewisohn will be 64 in June…

 
I Need You
2022 Ranking: 166
2022 Lists: 2
2022 Points: 4
Ranked Highest by: @Encyclopedia Brown Krista/Rob
2019 Ranking/Lists/Pts: 131T/1/5

Getz comments:  First song to get two votes!  Not bad for the 7th song listed...Love the Petty cover below... This song should be on more lists....


Krista4
My 2019 ranking:  64

2019 write-up:

I Need You (Help!, 1965)

This was sent on a last-minute downward trajectory.  I am so in love with George's use of the volume pedal on his 12-string Rickenbacker that I've likely had it higher on the list than where I actually rate it.  Basically I listen to this song and wait for that sound and sing a loud "wah-wah!" every time he does it.  Actually just went to the bathroom and came back out singing the "wah-wah"s, with Mr. krista complimenting me on my soulful delivery.

In addition to that highlight, the song has a lovely sorrowful melody sung with beautiful inflection by George, with his melancholy tone matched by that volume pedal. In addition to the usual fantastic harmonies, we have an unusual line-up here, with John on snare and Ringo hitting the back of an acoustic Gibson guitar for his percussion parts, plus Ringo on cowbell(!) on the middle eight, which as we know always take a song a notch up for me.  The song structure is interesting in that it follows the at-that-time typical aababa format, but with odd measures - the bridge has nine measures with the last taking down the emotion of the eighth as a compelling lead back into the verse.

George offered this for the Help! movie and had it accepted by Richard Lester, and George was apparently ecstatic about that.  In the credits to Help!, he suddenly materializes to say the words "'I Need You,' by George Harrison," presumably indicating in a droll fashion that he was happy to get the credit.

Mr. krista:  "This song freaks me out it’s so good.  Is that a chorus pedal or a volume pedal?  The song is super weird and very compelling.  It’s in a ####ed up key that I can’t identify, but the changes resolve to the relative minor of whatever that chord is, so it sounds like modal music, and that effect with the harmonic pedal or whatever it is is so strange that it sticks right out there, that it almost seems like a mistake at first, but it’s amazing.  But amazing that they did it, amazing that it worked, and amazing that someone said it was OK for the most famous band in the world to let that stay in their song.  Background harmonies are ghostly.  Would like to hear those in isolation, would sound insane."

Suggested cover:  Tom Petty

2022 Supplement:  I still get excited whenever this song comes on and am amazed that no one but OH seems to love it as much as I do.  Well, I guess OH and whoever put it in their top 25.  This song seems to have been a favorite of George and those who loved him, given that it was selected as one of the songs performed in the “Concert for George” tribute in 2002 (and from which the Tom Petty cover I’ve linked above emanates).  To me it evidences a big step for George as a songwriter, with the melancholy and ethereal tone matching the lyrics.   

Guido Merkins

The Beatles were always interested in new sounds.  In 1965, George Harrison came across a device called a volume pedal for his guitar.  This device was kind of the precursor to a wah wah pedal.  When George was looking for something to make his song I Need You sound different, he decided to use the volume pedal.

George’s songs on the Help album were the first ones that had made it to an album since Don’t Bother Me.  I Need You was the better of the two songs and ended up in the movie.  The sequence of the film in which it appears has the military guarding the Beatles in a field as they play. 

The song was written in rather melancholy style which was typical of George.  Apparently George had an issue at this point of coordinating between the guitar and the foot pedal, so some of the effects was John kneeling in front of George and turning the volume knob on the guitar.  I like the volume pedal effects and at the end of the song, it almost sounds like George wants to do something clever with the effect, but thinks better of it and just ends the song.  


 
172 to 1 Chalk Rankings after #166

1 --Krista/Rob---7

2 --Encyclopedia Brown---7

3 --OTB_Lifer---5.5

4 --Krista/Mom/Hub---5.5

5 --Krista (Worth)---4

6 --jwb---3

7 --wikkidpissah---1.5

8 --Man Of Constant Sorrow---1.5

 
"I Need You" didn't make it into my top 25, but it's a damn fine song. Also love that pedal effect that George uses.

 
I Need You
2022 Ranking: 166
2022 Lists: 2
2022 Points: 4
Ranked Highest by: @Encyclopedia Brown Krista/Rob
2019 Ranking/Lists/Pts: 131T/1/5
I can comment on this one.  I liked this tune the first time I heard it way back in January. The more I listened to it, however, the more I disliked the Wah Wah's and fairly quickly discounted it from my list.  Just something about that sound over and over was a little much for me.  I'm not sure how it would sound with something different there but maybe Anarchy will have some covers for me to try.

 
I Need You
2022 Ranking: 166
2022 Lists: 2
2022 Points: 4
Ranked Highest by: @Encyclopedia Brown Krista/Rob
2019 Ranking/Lists/Pts: 131T/1/5

Getz comments:  First song to get two votes!  Not bad for the 7th song listed...Love the Petty cover below... This song should be on more lists....


Krista4
My 2019 ranking:  64

2019 write-up:

I Need You (Help!, 1965)

This was sent on a last-minute downward trajectory.  I am so in love with George's use of the volume pedal on his 12-string Rickenbacker that I've likely had it higher on the list than where I actually rate it.  Basically I listen to this song and wait for that sound and sing a loud "wah-wah!" every time he does it.  Actually just went to the bathroom and came back out singing the "wah-wah"s, with Mr. krista complimenting me on my soulful delivery.

In addition to that highlight, the song has a lovely sorrowful melody sung with beautiful inflection by George, with his melancholy tone matched by that volume pedal. In addition to the usual fantastic harmonies, we have an unusual line-up here, with John on snare and Ringo hitting the back of an acoustic Gibson guitar for his percussion parts, plus Ringo on cowbell(!) on the middle eight, which as we know always take a song a notch up for me.  The song structure is interesting in that it follows the at-that-time typical aababa format, but with odd measures - the bridge has nine measures with the last taking down the emotion of the eighth as a compelling lead back into the verse.

George offered this for the Help! movie and had it accepted by Richard Lester, and George was apparently ecstatic about that.  In the credits to Help!, he suddenly materializes to say the words "'I Need You,' by George Harrison," presumably indicating in a droll fashion that he was happy to get the credit.

Mr. krista:  "This song freaks me out it’s so good.  Is that a chorus pedal or a volume pedal?  The song is super weird and very compelling.  It’s in a ####ed up key that I can’t identify, but the changes resolve to the relative minor of whatever that chord is, so it sounds like modal music, and that effect with the harmonic pedal or whatever it is is so strange that it sticks right out there, that it almost seems like a mistake at first, but it’s amazing.  But amazing that they did it, amazing that it worked, and amazing that someone said it was OK for the most famous band in the world to let that stay in their song.  Background harmonies are ghostly.  Would like to hear those in isolation, would sound insane."

Suggested cover:  Tom Petty

2022 Supplement:  I still get excited whenever this song comes on and am amazed that no one but OH seems to love it as much as I do.  Well, I guess OH and whoever put it in their top 25.  This song seems to have been a favorite of George and those who loved him, given that it was selected as one of the songs performed in the “Concert for George” tribute in 2002 (and from which the Tom Petty cover I’ve linked above emanates).  To me it evidences a big step for George as a songwriter, with the melancholy and ethereal tone matching the lyrics.   

Guido Merkins

The Beatles were always interested in new sounds.  In 1965, George Harrison came across a device called a volume pedal for his guitar.  This device was kind of the precursor to a wah wah pedal.  When George was looking for something to make his song I Need You sound different, he decided to use the volume pedal.

George’s songs on the Help album were the first ones that had made it to an album since Don’t Bother Me.  I Need You was the better of the two songs and ended up in the movie.  The sequence of the film in which it appears has the military guarding the Beatles in a field as they play. 

The song was written in rather melancholy style which was typical of George.  Apparently George had an issue at this point of coordinating between the guitar and the foot pedal, so some of the effects was John kneeling in front of George and turning the volume knob on the guitar.  I like the volume pedal effects and at the end of the song, it almost sounds like George wants to do something clever with the effect, but thinks better of it and just ends the song.  
I will always find it fascinating how the same part of a song will polarize people.  I don't even consider this song for the top 25 without the volume pedal.  It is by far the most interesting part of the song to me.  The Beatles' use of minor chords that sometimes resolve to major and sometimes don't is one of my favorite parts of the musicality, and I find it extra fascinating since none of them had music theory or could read music.  I considered this strongly for my list but it ultimately couldn't quite make it, although I do have another song that I consider somewhat similar and superior.  

 
I will always find it fascinating how the same part of a song will polarize people.  I don't even consider this song for the top 25 without the volume pedal.  It is by far the most interesting part of the song to me.  
Agree 100% - the uniqueness is what interests me the most. That's a common theme among many of my top 25 selections.

 
I will always find it fascinating how the same part of a song will polarize people.  I don't even consider this song for the top 25 without the volume pedal.  It is by far the most interesting part of the song to me.  The Beatles' use of minor chords that sometimes resolve to major and sometimes don't is one of my favorite parts of the musicality, and I find it extra fascinating since none of them had music theory or could read music.  I considered this strongly for my list but it ultimately couldn't quite make it, although I do have another song that I consider somewhat similar and superior.  


What is really cool about the Beatles is that they hit upon an idea like using a volume pedal for the song, then you almost never hear it again.  It's like they think, "we did that already, let's move on."  They do tape loops on Tomorrow Never Knows and only go back to it like a couple more times 1 or 2 years later.

People make entire careers out of one trick they discover.  The Beatles just move on....

 
I Need You
2022 Ranking: 166
2022 Lists: 2
2022 Points: 4
Ranked Highest by: @Encyclopedia Brown Krista/Rob
2019 Ranking/Lists/Pts: 131T/1/5


The Petty version is the primary go to option. The Tchello Palma and Luba Mason versions go in different directions. Fogelberg is a soulful acoustic version. When I was a kid, I thought for sure this was a song written by Bob Dylan. That and I confused it with the song with the same title by America.

Tom Petty, BloomfieldsGavin Pring, Steve Perry (yes, that one), Randy Bachman, Eshniner ForestIan & The Zodiacs, the goobs!, Christopher Elam, Las LolasEddie VuittonetSir Frankie Crisp, Phil SeymourLuba MasonMary McCaslin, Webb SistersTchello Palma, Bruce LangVaghi, The Terribles, Ukelele RayOs BritosChristine CollesterBoca Livre, Dan Fogelberg

 
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I Need You
2022 Ranking: 166


bummer ...I had it #30 on my list, and it spent plenty of time in and out of my top 25. It was #21 on my 2019 list that I didn't look at while building my new list.  

Yet another George song that I was instantly drawn to - without knowing it was a George song. And the coolest tan military jackets like they wore for the Shea Stadium concert.  Along with big ####### tanks.  

So cool. 

 

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