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2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Kawhi introduces playoff load management (44 Viewers)

Was hoping for more there at the end of the halves but being down one with Ant and KAT combing for 7 pts total will work!
Phoenix has definitely adjusted to the Wolves' physicality so far. But besides Ant/Kat not doing much, our bench is 2-12. That can't continue.
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
I'll be shocked if LA doesn't shoot 50 free throws next game.
That may not be as shocking as it appears.

Over the past two years, the Lakers have gone to the free throw line 983 more times than their opponents (source: Tony Kornheiser, PTI).

The next closest is Miami at 386, nearly 600 fewer.
That is insane.
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
I'll be shocked if LA doesn't shoot 50 free throws next game.
That may not be as shocking as it appears.

Over the past two years, the Lakers have gone to the free throw line 983 more times than their opponents (source: Tony Kornheiser, PTI).

The next closest is Miami at 386, nearly 600 fewer.
That is insane.
The thing that is especially insane is that they have been near the bottom of the league in drives per game. This year they averaged 39.4/game (4th least), a full 23 below #1 OKC. Last year they were 8th lowest. This year they were also about mid-pack in paint touches. So it's not like they are putting tons of pressure on the rim.

The one half of the FT discrepancy that does actually make sense, is they are either wonderful positional defenders (Lebron, Davis) or horrible defensively (DLo), neither of which player type commits a lot of fouls.
 
I'm seeing three calls that should have been called but weren't - two against NYK and one against PHI - and two mentions of timeout attempts - one that sounds like they might be admitting they should have called and the other not so much, but neither very clear one way or the other since they are not directly addressed as correct or incorrect.
 
I'm seeing three calls that should have been called but weren't - two against NYK and one against PHI - and two mentions of timeout attempts - one that sounds like they might be admitting they should have called and the other not so much, but neither very clear one way or the other since they are not directly addressed as correct or incorrect.
Pretty clear the timeout before the inbounds should have been granted.
 
Also, I agree that all the bitching in the press conferences was done to influence officiating in the next game. Lebron and AD play that card a lot and I think that is part of the reason why they get such a favorable whistle. AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
I'll be shocked if LA doesn't shoot 50 free throws next game.
That may not be as shocking as it appears.

Over the past two years, the Lakers have gone to the free throw line 983 more times than their opponents (source: Tony Kornheiser, PTI).

The next closest is Miami at 386, nearly 600 fewer.
That is insane.
The thing that is especially insane is that they have been near the bottom of the league in drives per game. This year they averaged 39.4/game (4th least), a full 23 below #1 OKC. Last year they were 8th lowest. This year they were also about mid-pack in paint touches. So it's not like they are putting tons of pressure on the rim.

The one half of the FT discrepancy that does actually make sense, is they are either wonderful positional defenders (Lebron, Davis) or horrible defensively (DLo), neither of which player type commits a lot of fouls.
Saw THIS in the Nuggets Reddit the other day. Just a crazy stat.

For those who don't want to follow the link, NBA Net Free Throw Attempt Differential since the start of the 2022/2023 season, Lakers are +1017 which is more than the next three teams combined.
 
AD also gets a good whistle because he falls down a lot - that would be a great drinking game. Take a shot every time AD falls down. Drink plenty of water, because you are getting blackout drunk.
AD being down on the ground on offense 4-5 times a game hurts his team a lot. Tough to vote him DPOY when his team is facing 4 on 5's that many times because of him.

:rant:

The Pacers-Bucks game is on the NBA Network and Bally Sports? Great.

And its blacked out locally on NBA Network, so only available on Bally at $20/month. I'm sure locals are still pleased to have paid $250M to support the new stadium!

I've texted my teenager to get a dodgy stream link for this evening.
Welcome to the party pal. :diehard:
 
I'm seeing three calls that should have been called but weren't - two against NYK and one against PHI - and two mentions of timeout attempts - one that sounds like they might be admitting they should have called and the other not so much, but neither very clear one way or the other since they are not directly addressed as correct or incorrect.
Pretty clear the timeout before the inbounds should have been granted.
Then get the hell in the officials face and call it. Nurse needs to be not so damn passive in his "kinda calling timeout" thing
 
This offseason we should dy o a draft of current players with no salary cap. I would like to see us nerds build teams based solely on the player with no salary component. I'm watching Luka right now and wondering how I would want to build around him compared to Ant and what not.

@Yo Mama
 
League report officially states:

1. Nurse should have been granted the timeout on the inbounds pass.
2. Brunson grabbing Maxey jersey should have been called a foul.
3. Maxey getting hit when he had the ball, should have been called a foul.
4. Nurse calling timeout when Maxey hit the floor was correctly not granted.

Fine, I'll take 3 out of 4. (also the 'push off' was deemed legal)
 
League report officially states:

1. Nurse should have been granted the timeout on the inbounds pass.
2. Brunson grabbing Maxey jersey should have been called a foul.
3. Maxey getting hit when he had the ball, should have been called a foul.
4. Nurse calling timeout when Maxey hit the floor was correctly not granted.

Fine, I'll take 3 out of 4. (also the 'push off' was deemed legal)
What about the non-call on Embiid with 35 seconds left from the report. Or do only the calls that benefit Philly count?
 
League report officially states:

1. Nurse should have been granted the timeout on the inbounds pass.
2. Brunson grabbing Maxey jersey should have been called a foul.
3. Maxey getting hit when he had the ball, should have been called a foul.
4. Nurse calling timeout when Maxey hit the floor was correctly not granted.

Fine, I'll take 3 out of 4. (also the 'push off' was deemed legal)
What about the non-call on Embiid with 35 seconds left from the report. Or do only the calls that benefit Philly count?
Damn you're cherry picking here. If you want to go back through the whole game, we could.

I'm talking about the last sequence. Hence why I included #4, (which does NOT benefit Philly)
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
Hurt more than the offensive rebound two seconds later that lead to the three by DiVincenzo?
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
Hurt more than the offensive rebound two seconds later that lead to the three by DiVincenzo?
Yes. The refs missed 3 calls (all of which you defended were fine that they didn't call), and the NBA agreed that they missed all these calls, and if they would have just called one of them, the series would be 1-1. Completely inexcusable (Except for by you, who is extremely dug in and even arguing now with the official NBA report on the missed calls)
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
Hurt more than the offensive rebound two seconds later that lead to the three by DiVincenzo?
Yes. The refs missed 3 calls (all of which you defended were fine that they didn't call), and the NBA agreed that they missed all these calls, and if they would have just called one of them, the series would be 1-1. Completely inexcusable (Except for by you, who is extremely dug in and even arguing now with the official NBA report on the missed calls)
I don't think I've made a single statement on the validity of any of those non-calls. I just think it's silly to blame the refs for the loss when there were many things in that specific sequence the team could have done to avoid that result. Make the timeout call more obvious from Nurse, have the inbounder (Lowry?) that was making a tough inbound right about the time the 5 second call was going to be made call the time out, when Maxey dove on the ground he could have called a timeout or at a minimum not handed the ball to Hart, grab the rebound on the first missed three (Hartenstein grabbed that over FOUR Sixers). All of those things seem like they would have negated the non-calls.
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
Hurt more than the offensive rebound two seconds later that lead to the three by DiVincenzo?
Yes. The refs missed 3 calls (all of which you defended were fine that they didn't call), and the NBA agreed that they missed all these calls, and if they would have just called one of them, the series would be 1-1. Completely inexcusable (Except for by you, who is extremely dug in and even arguing now with the official NBA report on the missed calls)
I don't think I've made a single statement on the validity of any of those non-calls. I just think it's silly to blame the refs for the loss when there were many things in that specific sequence the team could have done to avoid that result. Make the timeout call more obvious from Nurse, have the inbounder (Lowry?) that was making a tough inbound right about the time the 5 second call was going to be made call the time out, when Maxey dove on the ground he could have called a timeout or at a minimum not handed the ball to Hart, grab the rebound on the first missed three (Hartenstein grabbed that over FOUR Sixers). All of those things seem like they would have negated the non-calls.
Yes, of course they could have. I don't disagree with you on that at all. But you could say this about any play in sports. A ref misses a blatant PI in football, and it could be "well he could have thrown it to this other wide open receiver instead", or a ref calls a phantom offside in soccer and it's "the player really could have just waited an extra second before moving forward".

Anything can be changed to "they could have done this that play, or they should have done this earlier". Despite what Philly "could have done better", To have league admit that the refs missed THREE different calls in THREE seconds, on one of the most important plays of a playoff game, is inexcusable. Doubt we have ever seen that before in the NBA (heck, maybe even in any sport).
 
Interesting for upcoming games:

Dallas, Indiana, and Phoenix all would be expected to win just looking at the expected points from the shot profile of each team in their respective games.

Obviously not the end all be all and you have to make shots to get points, and the sample size is by nature small, but if that holds, you'd expect them to win some games here.
2/3 teams won shot quality again and won the games.
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Nope, that one 'bad play' (in which the NBA officially stated that the refs missed 3 calls on, which would have sealed the game) hurt a lot more.
Hurt more than the offensive rebound two seconds later that lead to the three by DiVincenzo?
Yes. The refs missed 3 calls (all of which you defended were fine that they didn't call), and the NBA agreed that they missed all these calls, and if they would have just called one of them, the series would be 1-1. Completely inexcusable (Except for by you, who is extremely dug in and even arguing now with the official NBA report on the missed calls)
The likelihood goes up, but no guarantee the Sixers win with any of those calls. There was :27.0 seconds left during the inbounds in a 2 pt game. The Sixers would have either had to make 4 FT's and/or get a stop in 2 possessions to guarantee a win...and at the way things were going, that was far from a sure thing.

  • I think the TO no call during the inbounds was the worst, but Nurse was hardly demonstrative with it. But it still should have been seen/called.
  • Live I thought Maxey pushed off (I yelled "that's a push off!" to no one in my living room as I was watching alone), but it was more the camera angle as he really didn't extend his arms into Hart.
  • I think, of the 2 no-calls, the jersey pull was the most obvious and effected the play the most. It took a step away from Maxey's movement toward the corner and didn't let him get open which led to the chaos.
  • The bump would have been a weak call, IMO as Maxey was kind of fumbling the ball, flailing and off balance already.
  • Now that I think about it, the jersey tug foul would have been one where the Sixers get a shot and the ball if I'm not mistaken (intentional? away from the play? not sure what they call it). That would have dramatically increased the Sixers chances of winning (assuming they made the FT).

The refs made a couple of errors, but they honestly weren't that aggregious due to the craziness of the moment and the passiveness of the Sixers. They basically just all stood around and hoped the game would end or someone else would make a play. Nurse should have gone bonkers for a TO to advance the ball after the ball went through the net and that is a mistake on his part. Maxey shouldn't have let go of the ball after he went down like his life depended on it. Embiid, or any one of the 3 other 76ers should have stepped in front of Hartenstein crashing the glass. They all looked my son's JV team just standing around and watching the ball.

Sure the refs screwed them a bit, but they laid down and surrerended the game as well.
 
I love that people in here are advocating for coaches to storm the court and yell at the officials to get a time out. This thread really is something "special"
 
I love that people in here are advocating for coaches to storm the court and yell at the officials to get a time out. This thread really is something "special"
Not exactly, but actually turning toward the nearest official and being demonstrative would have made a big difference. A ref can't call what he can't see and they were all 3 focused on the 10 guys running around as they were supposed to. His hesitation was the biggest blunder. They probably just glanced at him after the ball went through and then when he didn't call it right away, they focused on the players. As a result the only way to know there is a TO is to hear it (impossible in that situation) or see it out of the corner of your eye. It is kind of an impossible position to put officials in and they really should have some kind of buzzer system or ability to grant it after the fact with replay or maybe allow someone at the scorers table to assist. Big problem could be loose balls where both coaches are trying to call it at the same time as you have to rule on who has possession as well. It is a very messy system, but then again, so is the ridiculous standard refs are held to of slow-mo perfection with perfect calm professionalism in the face of constant criticism and scrutiny.
 
I love that people in here are advocating for coaches to storm the court and yell at the officials to get a time out. This thread really is something "special"
Not exactly, but actually turning toward the nearest official and being demonstrative would have made a big difference. A ref can't call what he can't see and they were all 3 focused on the 10 guys running around as they were supposed to. His hesitation was the biggest blunder. They probably just glanced at him after the ball went through and then when he didn't call it right away, they focused on the players. As a result the only way to know there is a TO is to hear it (impossible in that situation) or see it out of the corner of your eye. It is kind of an impossible position to put officials in and they really should have some kind of buzzer system or ability to grant it after the fact with replay or maybe allow someone at the scorers table to assist. Big problem could be loose balls where both coaches are trying to call it at the same time as you have to rule on who has possession as well. It is a very messy system, but then again, so is the ridiculous standard refs are held to of slow-mo perfection with perfect calm professionalism in the face of constant criticism and scrutiny.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to your post specifically, more some of those above where they suggest the coaches become a rabid fan and run onto the court.

I agree he could have been more deliberate with the time out, but the Sixers lost that game based on multiple reasons. Some were flukely like Lowery being an 80% FT shooter and missing multiple FTs, or like some have pointed out the lack of any organizations during the last 43 seconds of the game. Personally i can't put much of this on Embiid with him playing on one leg, and apparently having some nerve damage to his eye (or whatever he has going on)
 
Also, fun fact from the Sixers-Knicks game... Embiid played20 minutes in the second half and had zero rebounds. Giving up 7 offensive rebounds in the half probably hurt more than a single bad play (that was still mostly self-inflicted).
Embiid can't just fall down and grab a rebound.

Interesting for upcoming games:

Dallas, Indiana, and Phoenix all would be expected to win just looking at the expected points from the shot profile of each team in their respective games.

Obviously not the end all be all and you have to make shots to get points, and the sample size is by nature small, but if that holds, you'd expect them to win some games here.
2/3 teams won shot quality again and won the games.
The Suns have the big names, but that team build makes no sense in combination. Big new governor energy in Phoenix struck the franchise hard, and it's only going to get worse.
 
Embiid could barely walk in the 4th.

The lack of a timeout was the most egregious error and makes a huge impact. Human error happens on missed/bad calls, but to not grant a properly called timeout is not acceptable and clearly altered the result of the game.
 
Embiid could barely walk in the 4th.

The lack of a timeout was the most egregious error and makes a huge impact. Human error happens on missed/bad calls, but to not grant a properly called timeout is not acceptable and clearly altered the result of the game.
At the end of the day, if Joel Embiid is the guy who won't let his team lose, he gets the rebound of the missed 3 there anyway and the whole thing is moot.
 
I love that people in here are advocating for coaches to storm the court and yell at the officials to get a time out. This thread really is something "special"
Officials have their eyes on the play, not on the coach. He's gotta do something more demonstrative than whatever that weak *** attempt was
 
I love that people in here are advocating for coaches to storm the court and yell at the officials to get a time out. This thread really is something "special"
Officials have their eyes on the play, not on the coach. He's gotta do something more demonstrative than whatever that weak *** attempt was

You also think one of their vets would have had enough sense to call a TO on the floor. This isn't exactly a young team new to the playoffs like Orlando or something. Philly blew that game, not the refs.
 
This offseason we should dy o a draft of current players with no salary cap. I would like to see us nerds build teams based solely on the player with no salary component. I'm watching Luka right now and wondering how I would want to build around him compared to Ant and what not.

@Yo Mama
20 man rosters.
I like the salary component, but am fine doing a draft without it if that’s what the people want. Democracy!
 
This offseason we should dy o a draft of current players with no salary cap. I would like to see us nerds build teams based solely on the player with no salary component. I'm watching Luka right now and wondering how I would want to build around him compared to Ant and what not.

@Yo Mama
20 man rosters.
I like the salary component, but am fine doing a draft without it if that’s what the people want. Democracy!
I'd be interested in doing this.
 

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