Bossman
Footballguy
The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
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2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (1 Viewer)
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Luka Lack of Defense
the moops
Footballguy
This clip has it all. A great block by White, a Luka pout and walk back on defense which leads to a Tatum dunk, and an official raising his arm to call an obvious foul but then just deciding to not call it
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Major
Footballguy
The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Wow, didnt think it was possible but this is Harden bad.
Boston
Footballguy
Getting rid of Smart was long overdue…not sure they would ever get over the hump with him playing meaningful minutes…I think both Tatum and Brown have grown as leaders without Smart’s personality hovering over the team…the fact they replaced him with Holliday just takes things to another level.
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mr. furley
Footballguy
there was one that didn't make this sizzle reel where he was under the basket ostensibly to rebound a missed shot attempt, but the ball got kicked out to White who was standing along at the 3 pt line.The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Luka turned, looked at him, took a half-hearted step in the general direction while White diagrammed his launch angle and tested the wind before draining a 3.
if that's not Luka, and i get why he gets a pass, but instead it's Jones or Hardaway and they do that.. they're hitting the bench in a nanosecond for lack of effort. but that's Luka on every possession knowing he won't ever get pulled for lack of effort on defense.
eta: the original twitter comment "Luka guarded Tatum better in this series than Tatum has guarded Luka and it's not really close"
i think we found an FBGs burner
identikit
Footballguy
Yeah, Smart was running over Coach Joe/commandeering the huddles during timeouts.
Stevens did what he had to do, I would think
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identikit
Footballguy
Well, he did miss the last 4 minutes of Game 3 due to (unfairly) fouling out
the moops
Footballguy
Also missed the last 3 minutes of game 1 cause they were getting walloped
msudaisy26
Footballguy
So he would be more like 5/23?
Instinctive
Footballguy
Yeah he could be like 5/26 instead. Loser refs!
Major
Footballguy
Yeah, Holiday is that glue guy, team leader and just overall bada**. There were several occasions in the previous series where a Tatum lead team would have wilted but he wouldn't allow it.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Holiday is a stud and was my favorite Celtic the day he put on the uniform was traded to them.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
Steven’s has done a phenomenal job and I am very impressed with Mazzula…he was thrown into a very tough and unexpected situation last year that he probably was not ready for it but he has grown into the role far quicker than expected and you can tell the players respect him and think he is the right guy for the job.
trader jake
Footballguy
I mean, sure. His team is one win away from winning a championship. First Row Joe!
That said, if the Celtics lost game 4 last year in the ECF to the Heat he may have been fired. It's the NBA, these head coaches get fired all the time, even successful ones.
Boston
Footballguy
It is pro sports; you are hired to be fired...but not many win a title in their second year and he appears to the right guy for a group that should have a pretty good championship window.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Oddly enough—one of the strategies that the Clippers implemented in the first round series against Dallas was to have Harden attack Luka. It won them a couple games in that series.The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Wow, didnt think it was possible but this is Harden bad.
Just chiming in on the Luka conversation—he’s clearly an elite talent. When he is fully healthy, and is fully engaged—I think that when he’s “on”—he is up there with Jokic as being unstoppable on the offensive end. In this playoffs—he’s certainly battling through some pain and injuries—-no doubt. One thing that I think is overlooked is that I don’t know if his conditioning is where it is supposed to be for long playoff runs. Even in the course of individual games—it’s not uncommon for him to start off super strong and have these massive first quarters and first halves—and will then slow down moderately to significantly in the second halves. It’s also a bummer that some of his “elite-ness” can get lost behind his constant begging and bickering about fouls. The thing about him is that he’s young, he’s got soo much talent—so hopefully getting humbled in these finals up to this point will wake up his motivation really focus on improving his shortcomings—his conditioning, his complaining to the refs, and his defense. I am personally of the belief that his defense can and will improve if he betters his conditioning. A lot of defense is centered around effort—and the more energy that a player has—the more effort they can expend on both sides of the court. I’m just going off of the eye test—but he just looks a tad bulky to me.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If Boston closes things out tonight . . .
Total wins over the past three seasons (including playoffs):
BOS - 213
DEN - 182
PHO - 171
MIA - 168
MIL - 168
PHI - 167
GSW - 165
DAL - 161
MIN - 156
CLE - 149
NYK - 147
MEM - 142
LAC - 140
LAL - 132
NOP - 129
OKC - 127
SAC - 127
CHI - 126
ATL - 123
BRK - 121
UTA - 119
TOR - 116
IND - 115
ORL - 106
CHA - 91
WAS - 85
HOU - 83
POR - 81
SAS - 78
DET - 54
Total wins over the past three seasons (including playoffs):
BOS - 213
DEN - 182
PHO - 171
MIA - 168
MIL - 168
PHI - 167
GSW - 165
DAL - 161
MIN - 156
CLE - 149
NYK - 147
MEM - 142
LAC - 140
LAL - 132
NOP - 129
OKC - 127
SAC - 127
CHI - 126
ATL - 123
BRK - 121
UTA - 119
TOR - 116
IND - 115
ORL - 106
CHA - 91
WAS - 85
HOU - 83
POR - 81
SAS - 78
DET - 54
the moops
Footballguy
I don't think this is overlooked at all. He is getting hammered for his poor defense and his poor conditioning
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I think the key tonight will be that the team that scores the most points probably wins the game.
trader jake
Footballguy
Defensive stats can be a bit murky at times (at least compared to most advanced offense stats), but Luka's defense has been a trainwreck in the playoffs.there was one that didn't make this sizzle reel where he was under the basket ostensibly to rebound a missed shot attempt, but the ball got kicked out to White who was standing along at the 3 pt line.The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Luka turned, looked at him, took a half-hearted step in the general direction while White diagrammed his launch angle and tested the wind before draining a 3.
if that's not Luka, and i get why he gets a pass, but instead it's Jones or Hardaway and they do that.. they're hitting the bench in a nanosecond for lack of effort. but that's Luka on every possession knowing he won't ever get pulled for lack of effort on defense.
eta: the original twitter comment "Luka guarded Tatum better in this series than Tatum has guarded Luka and it's not really close"
i think we found an FBGs burner
In the last 10 years the highest blow-by percentage allowed on drives in a series (min 10 drives per game defended):
2024 Luka Doncic vs Celtics 67.7%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Clippers 65.2%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Thunder 59.0%
Source: https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1801244832150511912
trader jake
Footballguy
I've resisted putting Luka in the "Harden / CP3 Camp" of hoopers. However, he has now entered the chat.
Hopefully Luka exits in the near future by taking his training more seriously (like Jokic did a few years ago), tones down his obsession with the refs (something CP3 never did), and eventually leads his team to a championship. His talent is undeniable, but it takes more than that to escape the Harden / CP3 level of NBA players.
Hopefully Luka exits in the near future by taking his training more seriously (like Jokic did a few years ago), tones down his obsession with the refs (something CP3 never did), and eventually leads his team to a championship. His talent is undeniable, but it takes more than that to escape the Harden / CP3 level of NBA players.
Bossman
Footballguy
Ironically the last time that Doncic tried to prevent a blow-by, he picked up his 6th foul and rode pine for the rest of the game. (even as a Celtics fan, I didn't agree with the call)Defensive stats can be a bit murky at times (at least compared to most advanced offense stats), but Luka's defense has been a trainwreck in the playoffs.there was one that didn't make this sizzle reel where he was under the basket ostensibly to rebound a missed shot attempt, but the ball got kicked out to White who was standing along at the 3 pt line.The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Luka turned, looked at him, took a half-hearted step in the general direction while White diagrammed his launch angle and tested the wind before draining a 3.
if that's not Luka, and i get why he gets a pass, but instead it's Jones or Hardaway and they do that.. they're hitting the bench in a nanosecond for lack of effort. but that's Luka on every possession knowing he won't ever get pulled for lack of effort on defense.
eta: the original twitter comment "Luka guarded Tatum better in this series than Tatum has guarded Luka and it's not really close"
i think we found an FBGs burner
In the last 10 years the highest blow-by percentage allowed on drives in a series (min 10 drives per game defended):
2024 Luka Doncic vs Celtics 67.7%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Clippers 65.2%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Thunder 59.0%
Is he lazy? ... or is he physically unable to react and move his feet fast enough? Big doughy white guy vs svelte, quick twitch opponents.
Yes, I said it. Big white guys are slow (for the most part).
I still play pickup ball and, as a pasty old guy, I don't stand a chance of staying in front of some of these young guys. Not ideal but what are my options? Foul??
I suppose Doncic could at least give chase after a blow-by and that's where he DOES look lazy to me but it seems he has limitations and it's not just lack of effort.
mr. furley
Footballguy
some people just don't want to play defense 
the moops
Footballguy
I mean it is a pretty good level. Both those dudes are hall of famers and top 50 all time players
the moops
Footballguy
Joel Embiid
@JoelEmbiid
Did the bucks give them the championship?
That tweet from Embiid about Jrue brings up a lot of Philly/Boston connections. Some are a stretch, but whatever
Philly had Jrue - traded him for Nerlens Noel and a 1st (Elfrid Payton)
Philly had Al Horford - traded him and a 1st for Danny Green
Philly could have taken Tatum, but instead traded an additional 1st and took Fultz
That 1st they traded to Boston turned into Romeo Langford, who was the player Boston traded with a pick and a swap for Derrick White
Philly chose Ben Simmons over Jaylen Brown in the 2016 draft
Philly chose Jahlil Okafor over Porzingis in the 2015 draft
@JoelEmbiid
Did the bucks give them the championship?
That tweet from Embiid about Jrue brings up a lot of Philly/Boston connections. Some are a stretch, but whatever
Philly had Jrue - traded him for Nerlens Noel and a 1st (Elfrid Payton)
Philly had Al Horford - traded him and a 1st for Danny Green
Philly could have taken Tatum, but instead traded an additional 1st and took Fultz
That 1st they traded to Boston turned into Romeo Langford, who was the player Boston traded with a pick and a swap for Derrick White
Philly chose Ben Simmons over Jaylen Brown in the 2016 draft
Philly chose Jahlil Okafor over Porzingis in the 2015 draft
Yo Mama
Footballguy
The Process finally worked - just for the wrong team.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
One thing I will give Luka a slight pass on is the fact he leads the league in most minutes played this season so far with 3,448. Add in that he's banged up and having to be their offensive catalyst, and I can understand why he's not always able to give 100% (or 10%) on defense. On a side note, Tatum has played a TON of minutes the past three seasons combined . . . 10,626 minutes to be exact. And after watching Doncic, it suddenly feels like Tatum hardly ever barks at the refs looking for a foul call.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Bumping for posterity, as assuming Boston closes this out, some will hold this finals loss against Doncic, while certain superstars who have never even been to the finals won't be (relative to what their statuses were two months ago).
General Malaise
Footballguy
Didn't Portland technically give Boston the championship?
General Malaise
Footballguy
Dallas doesn't have a 3rd option. Simple as that for me.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This isn't a blanket statement. Lebron took two mediocre teams to the finals and got swept (Warriors and Spurs) those shouldn't be held against him. His lose to the Mavericks should be held against him because he played poorly.
Luka deserves a lot of praise for getting the Mavs to the finals, he also should take heat for the way he has played defense in the finals, the amount of turnovers, the amount of whining and getting beat by a team that has only played one good game.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This is the 180% opposite of Luka. But if he takes this approach, maybe he will be Finals MVP in a couple of years like JB likely will be this year.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
6th foul was when he was trying, but he took at least two dumb fouls earlier in the game in response to just being pissed that he didn’t get a call.Ironically the last time that Doncic tried to prevent a blow-by, he picked up his 6th foul and rode pine for the rest of the game. (even as a Celtics fan, I didn't agree with the call)Defensive stats can be a bit murky at times (at least compared to most advanced offense stats), but Luka's defense has been a trainwreck in the playoffs.there was one that didn't make this sizzle reel where he was under the basket ostensibly to rebound a missed shot attempt, but the ball got kicked out to White who was standing along at the 3 pt line.The video evidence is pretty damning...Windy dropping the ****ing hammer on Luka
Luka Lack of Defense
Luka turned, looked at him, took a half-hearted step in the general direction while White diagrammed his launch angle and tested the wind before draining a 3.
if that's not Luka, and i get why he gets a pass, but instead it's Jones or Hardaway and they do that.. they're hitting the bench in a nanosecond for lack of effort. but that's Luka on every possession knowing he won't ever get pulled for lack of effort on defense.
eta: the original twitter comment "Luka guarded Tatum better in this series than Tatum has guarded Luka and it's not really close"
i think we found an FBGs burner
In the last 10 years the highest blow-by percentage allowed on drives in a series (min 10 drives per game defended):
2024 Luka Doncic vs Celtics 67.7%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Clippers 65.2%
2024 Luka Doncic vs Thunder 59.0%
Is he lazy? ... or is he physically unable to react and move his feet fast enough? Big doughy white guy vs svelte, quick twitch opponents.
Yes, I said it. Big white guys are slow (for the most part).
I still play pickup ball and, as a pasty old guy, I don't stand a chance of staying in front of some of these young guys. Not ideal but what are my options? Foul??
I suppose Doncic could at least give chase after a blow-by and that's where he DOES look lazy to me but it seems he has limitations and it's not just lack of effort.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Luka and defense:
1. He was much better all year than he was previously, eye-test wise. He's clearly hurt, so it's not surprising how much it has deteriorated.
2. The thing his injuries shouldn't affect, but have this playoffs, is the engagement which was there all season. FAR too often he has been in the wrong place not because of physical limitation but because of not paying attention, or because he gambled, or lost a guy
3. He should be better in the post regardless
He is SO laterally quick, with great stop and go. Which means I don't think he's incapable or has an athletic limitation. I think the criticism (which, btw, Russillo has a great long-running stance on) is doing a 180 from the WCF love and gonna be overblown now and we're going to pick him apart all summer. But I think he does actually have the tools, he often had the desire this year...if he can get to the point of laying off the beer and donuts in season for a while vs for a month or two, I think he can be at least good on defense, if not great. The lateral speed, the stop and start, the wingspan, and the cerebral understanding of the game all shout "good defensive potential". It comes down to will.
1. He was much better all year than he was previously, eye-test wise. He's clearly hurt, so it's not surprising how much it has deteriorated.
2. The thing his injuries shouldn't affect, but have this playoffs, is the engagement which was there all season. FAR too often he has been in the wrong place not because of physical limitation but because of not paying attention, or because he gambled, or lost a guy
3. He should be better in the post regardless
He is SO laterally quick, with great stop and go. Which means I don't think he's incapable or has an athletic limitation. I think the criticism (which, btw, Russillo has a great long-running stance on) is doing a 180 from the WCF love and gonna be overblown now and we're going to pick him apart all summer. But I think he does actually have the tools, he often had the desire this year...if he can get to the point of laying off the beer and donuts in season for a while vs for a month or two, I think he can be at least good on defense, if not great. The lateral speed, the stop and start, the wingspan, and the cerebral understanding of the game all shout "good defensive potential". It comes down to will.
the moops
Footballguy
Milwaukee really messed up in that they could have done a three way where Jrue was routed somewhere besides their biggest eastern conference rival
General Malaise
Footballguy
Well, it also has miffed the Blazer fans when that sack of lunchmeat Windhorst reported that several teams were after Jrue and were offering draft capital for him and our GM just said "Jrue, tell us where you want to go and we'll get you there". Blazers did right by a guy that never suited up for them and there's some folks that are pissed about it.
I like Jrue so I'm happy for him.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Was talking about this with a friend the other day. It really surprises me that they couldn't grab a Western contender that would want him and pay at least what Boston paid (not much really) to get him. The Clippers were locked in on Harden for some reason but definitely should have been called and interested. San Antonio really should have given a hard look at it and had plenty to give. OKC should have considered it. Philly should have considered it (although maybe same issue as ending up in Boston). Miami probably felt screwed out of Dame but they had the capital and should have wanted him. Memphis should have wanted him to get through Ja suspension but they made the idiotic Smart trade. Houston should have wanted him and had plenty of assets.
Harder for Dallas but they should have wanted him too, although it may have then prevented the Gafford or PJ deal(s). New Orleans should have wanted him back and had assets.
trader jake
Footballguy
Agreed. That's exactly where Luka is. Most would be very, very pleased to get to that level as an NBA player. Something tells me Luka won't be satisfied with that though (or I hope so at least).
Or, in a darker timeline, we'll be seeing his June highlights ten years from now are making bug eyes after his girlfriend catches a bouquet or him arguing with a fake ref in a State Farm commercial.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Almost time. Would be really cool to see a win. Preparing to be without my voice through the weekend lol
Instinctive
Footballguy
Also, another NBA player's take on Luka: Jalen Brunson on Luka in finals
identikit
Footballguy
Brunson is an excellent teammate, and an excellent ex-teammate
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