2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (4 Viewers)

[Anarchy99]

Forgot to mention that here is the full list of players that averaged 25/9/6 throughout a playoff run that made it to the Finals in a season (assuming the list I say is accurate): Tatum and Luka this year, Jokic, LeBron, Havelicek, Giannis, and Bird. That's it.

That's some pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good company . . . yet Brown won ECF and Finals MVPs. Therein lies the difficulty in evaluating Tatum. By all accounts, the narrative was Tatum played poorly this post season . . . he's not clutch, he's not an alpha, he's not a dog, and he's mentally soft . . . yet he is on a very short list of top playoff performers. How can we reconcile Tatutm putting up some top level numbers while under-performing at the same time?

 

[Instinctive]

Cuban out? where new thread?

 

[Boston]

We have been fortunate in Boston to have some of the all-time greats and very goods in every sport and Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about (although early Brady was painful as well)...he can go from over-rated to under-rated (or vice versa) in the course of a week and this yo-yoing never stops except for the people who have dug their heels in and won't change their opinion (good or bad) regardless of what he is doing...he can play a great game but that won't be enough for some because he didn't do it with an F-you scowl or attitude (no city over-rates that more than Boston) so obviously he can't be that good because Jordan and Bird did it that way...ultimately he is not a Jordan or a LeBron...he will not be a Mount Rushmore player and because of that some feel the need to take shots at him because they are grading him against the very best...what he is is one of the best players in the NBA who is able to score, pass, rebound, play defense and is held in high-regard by his teammates whose team has done nothing but win since he has been there and now he is a champion who has an excellent chance to win multiple titles and when his career ends will have extremely high-end individual stats...he will be an easy first-team Hall-of-Famer who's place in NBA history still has at least 10 more years of playing until we really know where he fits...in NBA history I think comparisons to Tatum may end up being John Havilcek (with obviously a lot less titles) on the high-side or Rick Barry (without being a p****) who is kind of a forgotten great due to his personality...will be very interesting to watch the rest of his career (and Brown's) because there is still a lot that can happen that will help or hurt his legacy with the "experts."

Your pain may be more about talk radio and the hott take television sock puppets than Tatum, Brady, or any other specific player.

"Remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. With sports, it's legacy / ringszz talk. Okay, it's actually athletes being a brand talk, but legacy / ringszzzz has to be next.

I may be reading this wrong but I am confused by this (sorry about that)…do you mind expanding on it.

 

[Boston]

Forgot to mention that here is the full list of players that averaged 25/9/6 throughout a playoff run that made it to the Finals in a season (assuming the list I say is accurate): Tatum and Luka this year, Jokic, LeBron, Havelicek, Giannis, and Bird. That's it.

That's some pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good company . . . yet Brown won ECF and Finals MVPs. Therein lies the difficulty in evaluating Tatum. By all accounts, the narrative was Tatum played poorly this post season . . . he's not clutch, he's not an alpha, he's not a dog, and he's mentally soft . . . yet he is on a very short list of top playoff performers. How can we reconcile Tatutm putting up some top level numbers while under-performing at the same time?

I don’t have an issue with Brown winning those awards because he earned them but I think going into this expectations were higher for Tatum then Brown so they are/were graded differently…Tatum was going to have to really over-deliver to convince some people.

 

[the moops]

Forgot to mention that here is the full list of players that averaged 25/9/6 throughout a playoff run that made it to the Finals in a season (assuming the list I say is accurate): Tatum and Luka this year, Jokic, LeBron, Havelicek, Giannis, and Bird. That's it.

That's some pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good company . . . yet Brown won ECF and Finals MVPs. Therein lies the difficulty in evaluating Tatum. By all accounts, the narrative was Tatum played poorly this post season . . . he's not clutch, he's not an alpha, he's not a dog, and he's mentally soft . . . yet he is on a very short list of top playoff performers. How can we reconcile Tatutm putting up some top level numbers while under-performing at the same time?

I don’t have an issue with Brown winning those awards because he earned them but I think going into this expectations were higher for Tatum then Brown so they are/were graded differently…Tatum was going to have to really over-deliver to convince some people.

It's also just really hard to give an MVP to a guy who shot 39% from the field for the series

 

[Boston]

Forgot to mention that here is the full list of players that averaged 25/9/6 throughout a playoff run that made it to the Finals in a season (assuming the list I say is accurate): Tatum and Luka this year, Jokic, LeBron, Havelicek, Giannis, and Bird. That's it.

That's some pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good company . . . yet Brown won ECF and Finals MVPs. Therein lies the difficulty in evaluating Tatum. By all accounts, the narrative was Tatum played poorly this post season . . . he's not clutch, he's not an alpha, he's not a dog, and he's mentally soft . . . yet he is on a very short list of top playoff performers. How can we reconcile Tatutm putting up some top level numbers while under-performing at the same time?

I don’t have an issue with Brown winning those awards because he earned them but I think going into this expectations were higher for Tatum then Brown so they are/were graded differently…Tatum was going to have to really over-deliver to convince some people.

It's also just really hard to give an MVP to a guy who shot 39% from the field for the series

Nope…not at all…especially when Brown plays great D as well.

 

[Anarchy99]

I don’t have an issue with Brown winning those awards because he earned them but I think going into this expectations were higher for Tatum then Brown so they are/were graded differently…Tatum was going to have to really over-deliver to convince some people.

It's really hard to compare the two (and I am sure the team isn't even interested in doing that). Boston most of the time was running the offense through Tatum, and he was getting double or triple teamed. That really helped get his teammates open looks and got Brown a lot easy path to score than Tatum had. No doubt JT didn't shoot the ball well, but he did just about everything else well. People don't always connect the dots that Tatum was the primary focus on offense for DAL (even though Kidd made it out like Brown was the one they had to worry about).

It's also just really hard to give an MVP to a guy who shot 39% from the field for the series.

Brown only shot 44% in the series and shot 23.5% on 3PA (worse than Tatum). Both guys scored most of their points on layups and dunks. It's not flashy, but Tatum shot 93% at the line vs. 73% for Brown. I don't have a problem with Brown winning . . . he had more signature moments than Tatum did (and they game at more crucial times).

Nope…not at all…especially when Brown plays great D as well.

Yes, Brown played well defensively, but a lot of that was somewhat overblown. IIRC, Luka shot 45% (11 for 25) with JB as the primary defender. I believe the best defender on Doncic was Horford, but they switched so often that everyone had turns guarding Luka. But we remember the handful of steals and dunks and some highlight reel blocks. Great plays, no doubt. Tatum, on the other hand, was asked to play a different role than he would normally play (more back line play in the paint and less on the perimeter). That led to hardly any lobs or corner three pointers for Dallas, which completely took the Mavs out of their comfort zone. Also, a few times Tatum looked out of position as a potential help defender, but again, it was his job to limit the kick outs on the baseline more than coming over to stop a lay up.

Overall, no one really cares other than the Celtics own, but as one analyst said about Tatum, he could walk on water and the media would be quick to point out that he couldn't swim.

 

[trader jake]

We have been fortunate in Boston to have some of the all-time greats and very goods in every sport and Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about (although early Brady was painful as well)...he can go from over-rated to under-rated (or vice versa) in the course of a week and this yo-yoing never stops except for the people who have dug their heels in and won't change their opinion (good or bad) regardless of what he is doing...he can play a great game but that won't be enough for some because he didn't do it with an F-you scowl or attitude (no city over-rates that more than Boston) so obviously he can't be that good because Jordan and Bird did it that way...ultimately he is not a Jordan or a LeBron...he will not be a Mount Rushmore player and because of that some feel the need to take shots at him because they are grading him against the very best...what he is is one of the best players in the NBA who is able to score, pass, rebound, play defense and is held in high-regard by his teammates whose team has done nothing but win since he has been there and now he is a champion who has an excellent chance to win multiple titles and when his career ends will have extremely high-end individual stats...he will be an easy first-team Hall-of-Famer who's place in NBA history still has at least 10 more years of playing until we really know where he fits...in NBA history I think comparisons to Tatum may end up being John Havilcek (with obviously a lot less titles) on the high-side or Rick Barry (without being a p****) who is kind of a forgotten great due to his personality...will be very interesting to watch the rest of his career (and Brown's) because there is still a lot that can happen that will help or hurt his legacy with the "experts."

Your pain may be more about talk radio and the hott take television sock puppets than Tatum, Brady, or any other specific player.

"Remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. With sports, it's legacy / ringszz talk. Okay, it's actually athletes being a brand talk, but legacy / ringszzzz has to be next.

I may be reading this wrong but I am confused by this (sorry about that)…do you mind expanding on it.

You state, "Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about". I'm saying it's not really about Tatum being painful to talk about per se, it's the conversations about a player's legacy when they are still young, immediately after they win or lose a title but not retired, etc. Also, that most of the non-serious national media types that "debate" these things contribute to our collective pain.

That's it really. Stop listening to sports talk radio and hott take shows and you'll be much better off. Read Zach Lowe, listen to Dunc'd On or Thinking Basketball pods, watch Sam Vecenie breakdowns, etc. You'll be much happier with the basketball conversations at least. Just my 2 cents.

Or just ignore about half the posts in threads like this.

 

[thecatch]

Cuban out? where new thread?

There was no way he was going to retain control over operations long-term following the sale. That was a weird claim by him at the time.

 

[B Maverick]

I think everyone seems to be getting away from the point.


Celtics 18th Championship

Now back to your arguing.

 

[Boston]

We have been fortunate in Boston to have some of the all-time greats and very goods in every sport and Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about (although early Brady was painful as well)...he can go from over-rated to under-rated (or vice versa) in the course of a week and this yo-yoing never stops except for the people who have dug their heels in and won't change their opinion (good or bad) regardless of what he is doing...he can play a great game but that won't be enough for some because he didn't do it with an F-you scowl or attitude (no city over-rates that more than Boston) so obviously he can't be that good because Jordan and Bird did it that way...ultimately he is not a Jordan or a LeBron...he will not be a Mount Rushmore player and because of that some feel the need to take shots at him because they are grading him against the very best...what he is is one of the best players in the NBA who is able to score, pass, rebound, play defense and is held in high-regard by his teammates whose team has done nothing but win since he has been there and now he is a champion who has an excellent chance to win multiple titles and when his career ends will have extremely high-end individual stats...he will be an easy first-team Hall-of-Famer who's place in NBA history still has at least 10 more years of playing until we really know where he fits...in NBA history I think comparisons to Tatum may end up being John Havilcek (with obviously a lot less titles) on the high-side or Rick Barry (without being a p****) who is kind of a forgotten great due to his personality...will be very interesting to watch the rest of his career (and Brown's) because there is still a lot that can happen that will help or hurt his legacy with the "experts."

Your pain may be more about talk radio and the hott take television sock puppets than Tatum, Brady, or any other specific player.

"Remember when" is the lowest form of conversation. With sports, it's legacy / ringszz talk. Okay, it's actually athletes being a brand talk, but legacy / ringszzzz has to be next.

I may be reading this wrong but I am confused by this (sorry about that)…do you mind expanding on it.

You state, "Tatum has to be the most painful player to listen to experts/fans talk about". I'm saying it's not really about Tatum being painful to talk about per se, it's the conversations about a player's legacy when they are still young, immediately after they win or lose a title but not retired, etc. Also, that most of the non-serious national media types that "debate" these things contribute to our collective pain.

That's it really. Stop listening to sports talk radio and hott take shows and you'll be much better off. Read Zach Lowe, listen to Dunc'd On or Thinking Basketball pods, watch Sam Vecenie breakdowns, etc. You'll be much happier with the basketball conversations at least. Just my 2 cents.

Or just ignore about half the posts in threads like this.

Gotta agree and disagree...it's what makes it fun...it is part of the fabric of sports...Williams v. Dimaggio, Bird v. Magic, Wilt v. Russell, Brady v. Manning, Gretzky v. Orr (yes, Boston heavy on purpose)...everyone has an opinion...you just need to know when it is schtick versus honesty (or who actually knows what they are talking about versus the stat robots or the contrarians) and when to turn the channel off and when to put it back on.

 

[Kev4029]

Interesting thing I heard with regards to the possibility of the Celtics repeating as champs. Every team in the last 40+ years that has repeated has had a player generally considered to be one of the 15 best ever except maybe the Pistons teams that won it in 1989 and 1990 (and Isiah Thomas is probably not that far behind the top 15) -- Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Steph). Tatum is obviously really, really good, but it's hard to envision him going down as a top 15-20 player all-time, so the Celtics have a chance to repeat despite not having an historically dominant player.

I actually think he could for sure end up as a top 20 guy ever. He's weirdly underrated for a guy who has made 3 consecutive all-NBA first teams, I think just led his team in P/R/A for the entire playoffs, plays good defense, is a 5-time all-star and only 26 years old...

It's some chicken and egg. If you win 4 titles as a best player on a team, you are a top 20 player, right? And as the league history grows and grows that 15 becomes 20 from sheer volume of seasons and teams and winners.

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA. To make that leap into the top 20, he would be passing guys that were the consensus best players in the NBA by that point in their careers. I can't envision a reasonable world in which he is considered better in 10 or 12 years than five guys currently playing (Lebron, Steph, Durant, Giannis, Jokic) and has a large uphill battle to get to another five or so (Embiid, Paul, Harden, Kawhi, Westbrook) and then still needs to outpace some others (Doncic - who has certainly been better to this point of his career, SGA, Wemby, Edwards... Brown?).

He is something of the modern day Isiah Thomas to me, a very very good player in a system that flatters him, with a great team around him, and in something of a transition period of his position so he looks better in comparison (SF WAS the best position in the NBA for the last 15 years but guards and centers are dominating the league now). The second best SF under 30 is easily Jaylen Brown, the third best is... Mikal Bridges? Brandon Ingram?

 

[Gatorman]

Overall, no one really cares other than the Celtics own, but as one analyst said about Tatum, he could walk on water and the media would be quick to point out that he couldn't swim.

I think the Tatum knock came with all those losses to the Heat where he would disappear or get trucked by Jimmy or Bam. Those losses were not his fault, but since he was the "leader" of the C's the narrative stuck. Boston looked great this year, but still had 2 games in this series where they looked like the "listless celtics".

Again, Kudos to the C's for getting there and winning it all. Even as a Heat fan I can admire their willingness to scrap a lot of what was working to get better and finally win it all.

 

[Major]

Forgot to mention that here is the full list of players that averaged 25/9/6 throughout a playoff run that made it to the Finals in a season (assuming the list I say is accurate): Tatum and Luka this year, Jokic, LeBron, Havelicek, Giannis, and Bird. That's it.

That's some pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good company . . . yet Brown won ECF and Finals MVPs. Therein lies the difficulty in evaluating Tatum. By all accounts, the narrative was Tatum played poorly this post season . . . he's not clutch, he's not an alpha, he's not a dog, and he's mentally soft . . . yet he is on a very short list of top playoff performers. How can we reconcile Tatutm putting up some top level numbers while under-performing at the same time?

I don’t have an issue with Brown winning those awards because he earned them but I think going into this expectations were higher for Tatum then Brown so they are/were graded differently…Tatum was going to have to really over-deliver to convince some people.

I dont think that's true. He just had to be the best player on the team which he wasn't.

They pretty much skated through the playoffs and when they did get tested it always seemed like Brown and Jrue were the guys who stepped up. He needs to do better in tight games. He should be extremely grateful he's blessed with one of the best starting 5's I've ever seen.

 

[the moops]

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA.

Wouldn't 3 first team all NBA selections say otherwise?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA.

Wouldn't 3 first team all NBA selections say otherwise?

No. All-NBA selections by nature have positional restrictions. One can argue that Embiid is a top 5 player in the league- but Jokic being the all NBA first team center can knock Embiid to the second team..etc.

 

[Instinctive]

Interesting thing I heard with regards to the possibility of the Celtics repeating as champs. Every team in the last 40+ years that has repeated has had a player generally considered to be one of the 15 best ever except maybe the Pistons teams that won it in 1989 and 1990 (and Isiah Thomas is probably not that far behind the top 15) -- Magic, Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, Steph). Tatum is obviously really, really good, but it's hard to envision him going down as a top 15-20 player all-time, so the Celtics have a chance to repeat despite not having an historically dominant player.

I actually think he could for sure end up as a top 20 guy ever. He's weirdly underrated for a guy who has made 3 consecutive all-NBA first teams, I think just led his team in P/R/A for the entire playoffs, plays good defense, is a 5-time all-star and only 26 years old...

It's some chicken and egg. If you win 4 titles as a best player on a team, you are a top 20 player, right? And as the league history grows and grows that 15 becomes 20 from sheer volume of seasons and teams and winners.

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA. To make that leap into the top 20, he would be passing guys that were the consensus best players in the NBA by that point in their careers. I can't envision a reasonable world in which he is considered better in 10 or 12 years than five guys currently playing (Lebron, Steph, Durant, Giannis, Jokic) and has a large uphill battle to get to another five or so (Embiid, Paul, Harden, Kawhi, Westbrook) and then still needs to outpace some others (Doncic - who has certainly been better to this point of his career, SGA, Wemby, Edwards... Brown?).

He is something of the modern day Isiah Thomas to me, a very very good player in a system that flatters him, with a great team around him, and in something of a transition period of his position so he looks better in comparison (SF WAS the best position in the NBA for the last 15 years but guards and centers are dominating the league now). The second best SF under 30 is easily Jaylen Brown, the third best is... Mikal Bridges? Brandon Ingram?

This is part of what makes Tatum fascinating. I'd easily prefer him to SGA and Edwards and Brown. Do I think it's likely he wins an MVP or two in the next 5-7 years? Maybe not. is it impossible? No way. Totally in the realm of possibility. And if he were to win 2 MVPs and another 1-3 titles, he'd HAVE to pass Giannis, right? And Embiid. And Paul.

That's kind of my point though. Isn't part of why he isn't a top player because he hadn't won anything? If he starts winning things (like this title) then that changes.

I'd already have him higher than Westbrook. That name doesn't belong with the rest. Possibly the most overrated player in NBA history. If he did the exact same as he's always done for 5-10 more years, or dipped, I'd have him above Harden too. I'd take his career over Harden's career if we drafted them both as rookies tomorrow.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn

ESPN Sources: JJ Redick has agreed on a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Rob Pelinka offered job this morning and Redick’s started working on a staff to surround himself with experience.

 

[Anarchy99]

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA.

Wouldn't 3 first team all NBA selections say otherwise?

No. All-NBA selections by nature have positional restrictions. One can argue that Embiid is a top 5 player in the league- but Jokic being the all NBA first team center can knock Embiid to the second team..etc.

They did away with positional requirements for the first time this year. Part of the reason Tatum has made it three years in a row was injuries to other players. But you have to be on the court to make the All-NBA teams.

 

[Capella]

Cuban out? where new thread?

I was on a little vacation. I’ll get the new one going tonight or in the morning I swear lol

 

[Instinctive]

Cuban out? where new thread?

I was on a little vacation. I’ll get the new one going tonight or in the morning I swear lol

I just expected a great title something about gambling and senility and losing and shark tank idk

 

[Anarchy99]

More JT / JB stats to ponder . . .

Tatum: +/- of +608 in the regular season and +147 in the playoffs (+6 in the finals)
Brown: +/- of +412 in the regular season and +88 in the playoffs (+14 in the finals)

Tatum: +10 individual net rating in the regular season, +7 in the playoffs (-2 in the finals)
Brown: +1 individual net rating in the regular season, +3 in the playoffs (-1 in the finals)

Tatum: Net -1.1 points per 100 offensive possessions with Tatum on the court in the regular season, net +5.9 in the playoffs
Brown: Net -7.7 points per 100 offensive possessions with Brown on the court in the regular season, net -7.5 in the playoffs

How and when that all took place matters. We all remember more impactful plays from Brown this year and in the post season. And we remember Brown coming up big when it mattered the most. But a game is 48 minutes long. Truth be told, Boston was pretty close to even with both of these guys on the court in the finals. It's the other guys that made a much bigger impact (Hauser +31 net rating, Horford +30, Porzingas +30, Tillman +22, Holiday +15, White +9).

 

[Capella]

Cuban out? where new thread?

I was on a little vacation. I’ll get the new one going tonight or in the morning I swear lol

I just expected a great title something about gambling and senility and losing and shark tank idk

Why did he sell it? I mean I know he made billions but he already had billions and now he doesn’t own an nba team? I feel like owning an nba team (that is still making you tons of money) would be awesome.

 

[Capella]

Adrian Wojnarowski

@wojespn

ESPN Sources: JJ Redick has agreed on a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Rob Pelinka offered job this morning and Redick’s started working on a staff to surround himself with experience.

Can’t blame JJ I’m sure he’s a very competitive person but he had an unbelievable gig at espn which he could have had for decades conceivably and two very popular podcasts. I guess the desire to be back in the game is too much.

Also probably eliminates the already very tiny chance of Lebron leaving which sucks. Hate to see him end his career on a hopeless 7th seed.

 

[Gr00vus]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn

ESPN Sources: JJ Redick has agreed on a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Rob Pelinka offered job this morning and Redick’s started working on a staff to surround himself with experience.

Can’t blame JJ I’m sure he’s a very competitive person but he had an unbelievable gig at espn which he could have had for decades conceivably and two very popular podcasts. I guess the desire to be back in the game is too much.

Also probably eliminates the already very tiny chance of Lebron leaving which sucks. Hate to see him end his career on a hopeless 7th seed.

When he gets fired in 2 years, I'm sure he'll have a chair at ESPN waiting for him.

 

[Capella]

Alright trades are happening let’s get that new thread up. @Aaron Rudnicki you up? Lock this down.

 

[TripItUp]

Giddey for Caruso?

Love it for OKC, not sure what the lakers are doing unless its a cap space move.

 

[nirad3]

Giddey for Caruso?

Love it for OKC, not sure what the lakers are doing unless its a cap space move.

Caruso was on the Bulls.

 

[Gr00vus]

Giddey for Caruso?

Love it for OKC, not sure what the lakers are doing unless its a cap space move.

Caruso was on the Bulls.

That's o.k., we're still not sure what the Lakers are doing anyway.

 

[Moe.]

Oh that’s fantastic. I’m watching the soccer on delay so can’t go to sports sites but that is amazing if it’s just a straight swap

 

[mr. furley]

x.com

x.com

incredible

 

[Capella]

New thread up

 

[Gr00vus]

 

[TripItUp]

Giddey for Caruso?

Love it for OKC, not sure what the lakers are doing unless its a cap space move.

Oops, meant the Bulls!

 

[Zeppelin]

ESPN Sources: JJ Redick has agreed on a four-year contract to become the next coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. Rob Pelinka Lebron James offered job this morning

Fixed.

 

[mr. furley]

what does any of this mean for Bronny James and how will these moves impact, not just Bronny James, but other teams around the league when they plan their moves for Bronny James?

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Through this season, Tatum has yet to be anywhere near a consensus top 5 player in the NBA.

Wouldn't 3 first team all NBA selections say otherwise?

No. All-NBA selections by nature have positional restrictions. One can argue that Embiid is a top 5 player in the league- but Jokic being the all NBA first team center can knock Embiid to the second team..etc.

They did away with positional requirements for the first time this year. Part of the reason Tatum has made it three years in a row was injuries to other players. But you have to be on the court to make the All-NBA teams.

correct My point was that the three all NBA selections alone doesn’t make him a top 5 player because in 2 of those 3 years (as you mentioned they eliminated the positional restrictions this year) there were restrictions. There is a very good chance that he doesn’t have 3 NBA first team selections if the positional restrictions were eliminated many years ago..etc. With that said—he’s clearly a massive talent. He’s closer to being a top 7-10 individual talent in my opinion—but I think that he has a chance to be viewed as better than that because the team that he’s on is probably going to be a relevant contender for years to come.

 

[Anarchy99]

There is a very good chance that he doesn’t have 3 NBA first team selections if the positional restrictions were eliminated many years ago.

Tatum had the 5th most All-NBA votes this year, the 2nd most last year (across all positions), and the 6th most the prior year (across all positions, meaning Embiid would have taken his First team spot). He had the 11th most votes in 2019-2020. However, if they had the same rules as they do know (65 GP), so many players would not have qualified that season that Tatum could have jumped from 3rd team to 1st team (hard to tell because so many votes would have to be awarded to other players). I don't think Tatum is a Top 5 talent, but he's a Top 10 player that shows up almost every game (which a lot of the other top players don't always do). If every player in the league was 100% healthy, Tatum might not even be a Top 10 player (it would potentially be close).

 

[the moops]

If every player in the league was 100% healthy, Tatum might not even be a Top 10 player (it would potentially be close).

I would love to see this list. Who are these non healthy players that would vault ahead of him? Kawhi probably. Who else? Butler?

 

[Frostillicus]

last!

 

[BassNBrew]

last

 

[Mister CIA]

last-ish.

 

[msudaisy26]

Got it

 

[Zeppelin]

Last.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

If every player in the league was 100% healthy, Tatum might not even be a Top 10 player (it would potentially be close).

I would love to see this list. Who are these non healthy players that would vault ahead of him? Kawhi probably. Who else? Butler?

I guess it depends on what we’re talking about. Like who is the best if every player is healthy for an entire season and playoffs or who is the best if every player is healthy for one game? And does that mean that they play at their peak all the time?

 

[Anarchy99]

If every player in the league was 100% healthy, Tatum might not even be a Top 10 player (it would potentially be close).

I would love to see this list. Who are these non healthy players that would vault ahead of him? Kawhi probably. Who else? Butler?

I guess it depends on what we’re talking about. Like who is the best if every player is healthy for an entire season and playoffs or who is the best if every player is healthy for one game? And does that mean that they play at their peak all the time?

I used regular season numbers from this year. I added up points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks per 100 possessions (for regulars, not guys that played 8 minutes on the season). Here were all the players that had a score of at least 50 (there were 40 players).

Jokic - 71.5
Luka - 70.1
Giannis - 69.3
Wemby - 65.2
SGA - 63.1
Ball - 59.6
AD - 59.3
Sabonis - 58.2
LeBron - 58
Tatum - 57.3
Brunson - 57.1
Mitchell - 56.2
Sengun - 55.9
Ja - 55.5
Randle - 55.5
Zion - 55.1
Curry - 55
Trae - 54.5
ANT - 54
Booker - 54
Haliburton - 54
KD - 53.5
Porzingas - 53.4
Fox - 53
Murray (DEN) - 52.4
Bam - 52.2
Love - 52.1
KAT - 52.1
Kawhi - 51.9
Kyrie - 51.5
Sharpe - 51.5
Cunningham - 51-4
Banchero - 51.4
Barnes - 51
Valanciunas - 50.8
Markkanen - 50.7
JJJ - 50.3
Lillard - 50.2
Bane - 50.1
Brown - 50.1

Yeah, it's not the best way to compare things, but there are worse ways than this. Lots of faults, as it doesn't take much into account for defense, there is nothing to consider winning or losing, there's no way to consider supporting players, and of course it does not factor in playoff performance at all.

That being said, Tatum falls smack dab at #10 on this list. The difference between Tatum at #10 and SGA at #5 (5.8) is the same as the difference between Tatum at #10 and Kyrie at #30. I wouldn't necessarily say this means Tatum ranks as the #10 player based of this list, but it paints a picture of the landscape of the league. Some guys had better than normal years, other guys slipped compared to their regular production (and some guys were banged up).

However, there is an argument to be made (that I don't feel like waging) that given the depth of talent on BOS this year, swapping Tatum for a lot of the other options on this list could have yielded a similar win total. We'll never know. But the one thing we do know is that Tatum fits in with the C's and they did win the title.

 

[Instinctive]

final post booyah

 

[Jayrod]

Nah, I'm last jabronis.

 

[BassNBrew]

Nah, I'm last jabronis.

Later Gator.

 

[millertyme1]

Tatum is Kelly Oubre

Or Gerald Green