2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (3 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

How terrible is this:

Sixers Get: Holiday; Covington (full circle Process)

Clippers Get: Harden; PJ Tucker; Jabari Walker

Blazers Get: Mann; De'Anthony Melton; and expiring contracts of Batum and Marcus Morris

Sprinkle in some picks or swaps somewhere? The salaries work.

Great for everybody other than the Blazers. That is absolutely pitiful for them. They don't need guards, Batum miiiight have enough value to somebody to get a second round pick at the trade deadline. Morris would be immediately bought out.

Batum said he was retiring after this year, right?

 

[General Malaise]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

I like the way you talk!

 

[Frostillicus]

i wonder if beauchamp and crowder see more action now that jrue is gone take that to the bank brohans

Beauchamp is really interesting and I'm excited to see what he can do with more playing time. Super talented kid who bounced around to a bunch of different high schools and ended up playing his only college ball at a community college near his home.

@General Malaise he was also coached in HS by your favorite guy Brandon Roy.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

How terrible is this:

Sixers Get: Holiday; Covington (full circle Process)

Clippers Get: Harden; PJ Tucker; Jabari Walker

Blazers Get: Mann; De'Anthony Melton; and expiring contracts of Batum and Marcus Morris

Sprinkle in some picks or swaps somewhere? The salaries work.

Blazers have to get at least 2 firsts and they might do it

 

[Long Ball Larry]

How terrible is this:

Sixers Get: Holiday; Covington (full circle Process)

Clippers Get: Harden; PJ Tucker; Jabari Walker

Blazers Get: Mann; De'Anthony Melton; and expiring contracts of Batum and Marcus Morris

Sprinkle in some picks or swaps somewhere? The salaries work.

Great for everybody other than the Blazers. That is absolutely pitiful for them. They don't need guards, Batum miiiight have enough value to somebody to get a second round pick at the trade deadline. Morris would be immediately bought out.

They don’t, but 2 guards who can provide more defense might interest them if they can get enough draft capital. It’s not like they will be able to get some good wing from a competing team.

 

[General Malaise]

i wonder if beauchamp and crowder see more action now that jrue is gone take that to the bank brohans

Beauchamp is really interesting and I'm excited to see what he can do with more playing time. Super talented kid who bounced around to a bunch of different high schools and ended up playing his only college ball at a community college near his home.

@General Malaise he was also coached in HS by your favorite guy Brandon Roy.

You know, not always are the greatest professional players the greatest coaches - Magic Johnson was a horrible coach; Ted Williams sucked as a manager - but here BRoy is turning out studs like a bull factory.

 

[General Malaise]

How terrible is this:

Sixers Get: Holiday; Covington (full circle Process)

Clippers Get: Harden; PJ Tucker; Jabari Walker

Blazers Get: Mann; De'Anthony Melton; and expiring contracts of Batum and Marcus Morris

Sprinkle in some picks or swaps somewhere? The salaries work.

Blazers have to get at least 2 firsts and they might do it

Leverage. That's what Portland has. It is what Portland has always had. Leverage.
Jrue is a perfect asset for a team that understands leverage.

 

[Yo Mama]

How terrible is this:

Sixers Get: Holiday; Covington (full circle Process)

Clippers Get: Harden; PJ Tucker; Jabari Walker

Blazers Get: Mann; De'Anthony Melton; and expiring contracts of Batum and Marcus Morris

Sprinkle in some picks or swaps somewhere? The salaries work.

Blazers have to get at least 2 firsts and they might do it

Leverage. That's what Portland has. It is what Portland has always had. Leverage.
Jrue is a perfect asset for a team that understands leverage.

Exactly. It will allow them to wait until Dec 15, where they can hit the jackpot with a DLo + Rui + 2030 1st package.

 

[thecatch]

Lillard put out his side of what happened this summer with his guy Chris Haynes. I think he and his agent come out looking worse than Cronin though.

 

[Moe.]

I don’t see how that reflects poorly on Cronin at all

 

[General Malaise]

I'd like to read Jason Quick's take on this too. He has covered the Blazers for 25 years and most recently was with the Athletic. Maybe get some journalism and not a mouthpiece for a player.

 

[Gatorman]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

Bam can guard 1-5. Ask the Celtics if they would prefer to see bam back there or lillard.

 

[msudaisy26]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

Bam can guard 1-5. Ask the Celtics if they would prefer to see bam back there or lillard.

The Celtics would want to face Bam all day every day. Bam had like 2 good games against the Celtics this year in the conference finals and you are propping him up like he is prime Russell or Wilt and the year before the Celtics beat the Heat. This isn't some domination by Bam and the Heat.

For someone that is happy for Dame and doesn't care you sure make a lot of excuses.

 

[caustic]

You know who probably has the assets and need for somebody like Jrue Holiday?

who?

I got distracted while writing this... I was thinking Miami, he would be a perfect fit there and would come cheaper than Dame.

Another that would be really interesting - Golden State for CP3 and their 26/28 first rounders and maybe something like Moody.

The Clippers have a bunch of flotsam on expirings and could trade their 28/30 picks as well.

This is the one I keep coming back to. CP3 is the perfect salary filler, plus the Warriors have multiple tradable picks, a couple interesting young guys, and a championship window that's rapidly closing.

Warrior only have a 2028 to trade unless they remove the protections on the outgoing 2024 (might not be conveyed until 2026). Outgoing 2030 restricts the 2029

The outgoing 2030 1st is kind of a fake asset since it’s top 20 protected. IMO the remaining 2/3 of that pick would carry at least as much weight as a full 1st from a better, younger team like Boston.

 

[Navin Johnson]

You know who probably has the assets and need for somebody like Jrue Holiday?

who?

I got distracted while writing this... I was thinking Miami, he would be a perfect fit there and would come cheaper than Dame.

Another that would be really interesting - Golden State for CP3 and their 26/28 first rounders and maybe something like Moody.

The Clippers have a bunch of flotsam on expirings and could trade their 28/30 picks as well.

This is the one I keep coming back to. CP3 is the perfect salary filler, plus the Warriors have multiple tradable picks, a couple interesting young guys, and a championship window that's rapidly closing.

Warrior only have a 2028 to trade unless they remove the protections on the outgoing 2024 (might not be conveyed until 2026). Outgoing 2030 restricts the 2029

The outgoing 2030 1st is kind of a fake asset since it’s top 20 protected. IMO the remaining 2/3 of that pick would carry at least as much weight as a full 1st from a better, younger team like Boston.

It still prohibits them from moving the 2029

 

[Gatorman]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

Bam can guard 1-5. Ask the Celtics if they would prefer to see bam back there or lillard.

The Celtics would want to face Bam all day every day. Bam had like 2 good games against the Celtics this year in the conference finals and you are propping him up like he is prime Russell or Wilt and the year before the Celtics beat the Heat. This isn't some domination by Bam and the Heat.

For someone that is happy for Dame and doesn't care you sure make a lot of excuses.

Dude not sure what your problem is but feel free to put me on ignore. You’re annoying.

bams defense is always underrated in doing comps with other players but in 3 Celtics series he affected the final outcome on the final possession on at least two of those games defensively in the last minute and was likely the best defensive player on the floor for all three of those series (One which included the dpoy in Marcus smart). he flirted with dpoy twice already (finishin4th 2 years ago and deserving last year except for injuries). He does have issues with bigger and longer centers up there are 3 of them left in the nba. Other that joker, embiid, and the brow not sure who else you’d want in your front court defensively and offensively at the 4 or 5 but okay.

miamis defense is what has taken them to the ecf 3 out of the 4 past years and into the finals for 2 of them. Bam is the lynchpin to that.

again, bam for dame is a joke. Not surprised that it could be the reason dame is in Milwaukee now.

 

[Jayrod]

Bam is 26. Lillard is 33.

Both are All-star level, 3rd team all-NBA type players (top 12-20 depending on health, etc). One is purely great offense while the other is a great defense with good efficient offense. One is a guard, the other is a center. Kind of comparing apples and oranges here.

The age gap makes Bam way more valuable.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

None of them were ever considering Herro, two picks and filler either

 

[Gatorman]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

 

[massraider]

Jrue is a perfect asset for a team that understands leverage.

Celtics writer gives an opinion, with a lot of words. From the Athletic

So will they, or can they, pounce on the opportunity to land Jrue Holiday?

With training camp a few days away, the Holiday deal should move quickly. He doesn’t fit Portland’s timeline, as the Blazers just drafted Scoot Henderson, and his value can fall sharply after his upcoming age-33 season. Much like Marcus Smart, Holiday is a generational defender who looked like he was starting to lose a bit of his edge at the point of attack last year. Regardless, the All-Star is still one of the best stoppers in the game. He’s a dynamic offensive player whose smaller scoring burden in Boston would mitigate his postseason inconsistencies. For a team that needs to win a championship right now, he’s the dream.
The Celtics can move Malcolm Brogdon and one of Al Horford and Robert Williams for a direct swap with the Blazers, but a more ideal scenario would include a third team so Portland can clear its books sooner and the Celtics could maintain their vital big man depth.

The price for Holiday likely starts at two first-round picks, but several teams in the mix have the means and motivation to go beyond that. The LA Clippers are reportedly in the hunt for the defensive stalwart, but they have continued to engage the Celtics in trade talks for Brogdon throughout the offseason, league sources told The Athletic under the condition of anonymity so they could speak freely. After a deal surrounding Brogdon and Kristaps Porziņģis fell just short of the finish line in June, the organization has worked to repair the relationship with the Sixth Man of the Year while continuing to explore trade options in case that bridge is too singed to be repaired.

Considering the Clippers are also keen on Holiday, they wouldn’t be looking to help the Celtics complete the deal unless there was another team about to beat them both to the punch. Whether it’s Philadelphia, Miami, Brooklyn, Toronto, Golden State or any of the other teams that may want Holiday, someone else is going to be able to fork over multiple first-round picks. The Clippers need a capable point guard as the James Harden saga has drawn on and are best served getting Brogdon if Holiday is out of play. A three-way deal could help the Celtics get this trade done more easily if the Clippers were willing to contribute to the draft capital going to Portland, but it won’t help in the most tricky aspect of making this all come together.

Boston’s toughest roadblock is the new collective bargaining agreement’s second apron, which drastically limits salary-matching flexibility. The Celtics currently sit $2.17 million below the second apron and there is a $14.3 million gap between Holiday’s $36.86 million and Brogdon’s $22.5 million salary. Because the margins are so tight on this deal, we’ll have to go to the hundredth place to round these salaries more precisely. So Boston is beholden to the more narrow 110 percent salary matching standard, making Brogdon’s salary effectively worth $24.75 million. The new CBA is phasing in a 100 percent matching rule for these scenarios ahead of the deadline, but it’s still 110 percent for now.
The Celtics could toss in a combination such as Payton Pritchard, Luke Kornet, Sam Hauser, Jordan Walsh and a sign-and-traded Blake Griffin to potentially make the matching work, then use the $6.2 million trade exception and more draft capital created when Grant Williams signed with the Dallas Mavericks to acquire more deep bench depth.

That would put the Celtics starting lineup likely at Holiday, Derrick White, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum, and Porziņģis, with Horford and Robert Williams coming off the bench. If Svi Mykhailiuk and Dalano Banton are their backup ballhandlers, you better believe they’re going to acquire someone else.

Though Horford and Robert Williams can also be centerpieces of the deal so the Celtics can maintain their young depth, the team is better off keeping its top talent and figuring out the future of its rotation later.

Holiday also helps Boston’s long-term financial planning, as he has a player option left on his deal for the 2024-2025 season. With Tatum’s eventual supermax extension kicking in that summer and Porziņģis on the books still, Boston will likely have to make some significant moves to field a full roster and avoid the second apron.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

None of them were ever considering Herro, two picks and filler either

I said "ask". I think Miami was offering this and Portland went lolz.....as they well should have.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

Bam can guard 1-5. Ask the Celtics if they would prefer to see bam back there or lillard.

Huh? I didn’t compare Bam to Lillard, I compared him to Ayton. Not sure where you are going with this? My point is that the gap between Bam and Ayton is small to moderate. The value of Jrue Holiday is significant- and if the Blazers really wanted Bam- but instead got Ayton AND Holiday AND extras— I think they executed a great deal.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

This is from all the way back in June....June 20th. Please note that the original ask for Bam (according to THIS article) involved Portland's #3 draft pick in 2023. It does NOT mention Dame for Bam.

Portland is determined to improve around Damian Lillard and holds interest in Bam Adebayo

Acquiring Adebayo is likely a long shot, but that is the level of player Portland is aiming for with its young talent and No. 3 overall selection.

sports.yahoo.com

The world of NBA team building spins on the axis of star player movement. After the Washington Wizards ignited a rebuild by trading Bradley Beal to Phoenix on Sunday, plenty of rival teams, such as the Miami Heat, have shifted their attention onto Portland. Those eager front offices are eying Blazers All-NBA guard Damian Lillard, with hopes that any outcome of Thursday night’s NBA Draft — where the Blazers own the No. 3 pick — which doesn’t result in a trade for veteran upgrades around Portland’s cornerstone, may result in Lillard requesting a trade from the only franchise he’s ever known. They’re hoping if the Blazers take Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller, it means as much as waving Lillard goodbye.

The reality, though, does not appear so binary. Lillard, by all accounts, prefers to remain with Portland, and the Trail Blazers have not shown any willingness to discuss the seven-time All-Star with inquiring teams, league sources told Yahoo Sports. The Blazers view this entire offseason as their canvas to fortify a contender around Lillard, not just this week’s NBA Draft, and free agency will bring additional opportunity to bolster this roster beyond plans to re-sign Jerami Grant. Portland has been exploring avenues to deal the No. 3 pick, but in a draft that scouts have deemed holds three top prospects, the Blazers are strongly valuing their selection in talks with opposing teams, sources said. Portland appears unlikely to part with the No. 3 choice unless the Blazers are netting back one of a select number of premium targets to pair with Lillard. According to one source with knowledge of the situation, Portland is preparing what the team believes to be a compelling package for Miami to part with All-Defensive centerpiece Bam Adebayo.

MOAR:

While Lillard is almost certainly pushing for an Adebayo trade, it makes much more sense for the Heat to add than subtract. They are reportedly trying to find a way to acquire Lillard, and an Adebayo-Lillard swap does not seem like an option. Unless the Blazers completely blow Miami away, a trade that sends Adebayo to Portland seems very unlikely.

 

[Gatorman]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

I'm with you. I think this whole fiasco was ego driven. The only difference is that Miami had a good working relationship with the Portland front office until Cronin got there. I do think that Cronin took this personally and wanted to send Dame anywhere BUT Miami. I will all come out at some point (its leaking here and there now), but I think it is likely a mixture of Miami being arrogant with what they were willing to give up for someone trying to move on specifically to them and Cronin being willing to get the best deal that was NOT Miami's. (why wouldn't you re-ingage in talks when the Bucks deal was close? BC Jrue is such a big piece?)

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

Brian Windhorst from June 1: https://www.basketballnetwork.net/l...trail-blazers-possibly-trading-damian-lillard

This isn’t the first time that Windhorst has talked about the Heat as a potential destination for Lillard. Last April, he also said on his podcast that he suspects that Miami’s offer would be built around Tyler Herro and draft picks.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

I'm with you. I think this whole fiasco was ego driven. The only difference is that Miami had a good working relationship with the Portland front office until Cronin got there. I do think that Cronin took this personally and wanted to send Dame anywhere BUT Miami. I will all come out at some point (its leaking here and there now), but I think it is likely a mixture of Miami being arrogant with what they were willing to give up for someone trying to move on specifically to them and Cronin being willing to get the best deal that was NOT Miami's. (why wouldn't you re-ingage in talks when the Bucks deal was close? BC Jrue is such a big piece?)

Got there? Brother, Cronin has been with the Blazers for like 10 years..... 17 years......

Entering his 17th season with the Trail Blazers in 2022-23, Cronin originally joined the team as a basketball operations intern in 2006. In 2010 he was promoted to Pro Scout/Salary Cap Analyst where he was a crucial part of the player evaluation and roster construction process. In 2014, he was named the team’s Director of Player Personnel and was active in the NBA Draft, trades, and free agent acquisitions and negotiations. in 2021, Cronin was named Assistant General Manager where he managed the team’s Salary Cap and oversaw its amateur and professional scouting.

 

[Gatorman]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

I'm with you. I think this whole fiasco was ego driven. The only difference is that Miami had a good working relationship with the Portland front office until Cronin got there. I do think that Cronin took this personally and wanted to send Dame anywhere BUT Miami. I will all come out at some point (its leaking here and there now), but I think it is likely a mixture of Miami being arrogant with what they were willing to give up for someone trying to move on specifically to them and Cronin being willing to get the best deal that was NOT Miami's. (why wouldn't you re-ingage in talks when the Bucks deal was close? BC Jrue is such a big piece?)

Got there? Brother, Cronin has been with the Blazers for like 10 years.....

yes, but GM for about 2 years. Miami has made more than a few deals with Portland in the past. Again, seems like an ego thing, but lets see what they get for Jrue... and all thsoe pick swaps...

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

I'm with you. I think this whole fiasco was ego driven. The only difference is that Miami had a good working relationship with the Portland front office until Cronin got there. I do think that Cronin took this personally and wanted to send Dame anywhere BUT Miami. I will all come out at some point (its leaking here and there now), but I think it is likely a mixture of Miami being arrogant with what they were willing to give up for someone trying to move on specifically to them and Cronin being willing to get the best deal that was NOT Miami's. (why wouldn't you re-ingage in talks when the Bucks deal was close? BC Jrue is such a big piece?)

Why does this have to be ego driven? Can't it just be as simple as Joe Cronin and the Blazers wanted the best deal they could get for Dame and Miami's offer wasn't ever close? I think you need to stop listening to Dan Lebatard for a few weeks. He's rotting your brain.

 

[Gatorman]

Nobody in Portland with an IQ over 7 was ever asking for Bam in a trade for Dame. Next topic.

GM: when the heat approached portland after lilliard asked out, the GM asked for Bam or Jimmy. Kind of like the Waddle for Taylor conversation, those are non-starters. After that, there was supposedly little to no commuincation between the two teams until Dame was on the Bucks. That's the reporting from Winhorst, not local guys down here.

So I think you are implying that the GM for the Blazers has an IQ of less than 7. I think the final story about this deal, other than good for the bucks, is that alot of egos got in the way of Dame to Miami and the winners of this trade is every team in it other than Miami and Portland.

I have no knowledge of Joe Cronin asking Miami for Bam or Jimmy and wouldn't mind seeing some evidence of that because that's preposterous. It totally defeats the purpose of Miami asking for Dame in the first place. If he did ask for that, it sounds more like a troll job than a legit ask, no? Like....when somebody offers me a ridiculous offer (like Herro and late round firsts for Dame) I always counter with something even more egregious, like Bam and Jimmy for Omar Asik. Sends a message. That's what this sounds like, Cronin telling Miami to 'Get Bent' without actually saying it.

I'm with you. I think this whole fiasco was ego driven. The only difference is that Miami had a good working relationship with the Portland front office until Cronin got there. I do think that Cronin took this personally and wanted to send Dame anywhere BUT Miami. I will all come out at some point (its leaking here and there now), but I think it is likely a mixture of Miami being arrogant with what they were willing to give up for someone trying to move on specifically to them and Cronin being willing to get the best deal that was NOT Miami's. (why wouldn't you re-ingage in talks when the Bucks deal was close? BC Jrue is such a big piece?)

Why does this have to be ego driven? Can't it just be as simple as Joe Cronin and the Blazers wanted the best deal they could get for Dame and Miami's offer wasn't ever close? I think you need to stop listening to Dan Lebatard for a few weeks. He's rotting your brain.

probably. I'm also reading a few guys down here on a quiet football wednesday and thursday. Barry Jackson and the dude from the Sun sentinel. One of the things I'm kind of feeling as this all ends is Riley seems to be becoming Red Auerbach in "winning time". Just send me the player and take what I give you. I hope that my perception of that is untrue...

 

[General Malaise]

I think Riley is one of the greatest NBA minds of our generation. I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame. If nothing else comes from this, I hope it's the acceptance and understanding that the market doesn't view Tyler Herro in the same way Heat fans do, which in a way is a tell. If you really thought he was the bees knees, your team wouldn't be so desperate to unload him, no?

I think we've beaten this to death. Good luck this season, keep Tua healthy for me and no offense but FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Mario Cristobal and the Hurricanes.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Can't it just be as simple as Joe Cronin and the Blazers wanted the best deal they could get for Dame and Miami's offer wasn't ever close?

Of course this is the case. Everything else is noise.

 

[Navin Johnson]

Longest tenured players with the same team:
1. Steph Curry - Warriors (14 years)
2. Klay Thompson - Warriors (12 years)
3. Draymond Green - Warriors (11 years)

 

[Jayrod]

Longest tenured players with the same team:
1. Steph Curry - Warriors (14 years)
2. Klay Thompson - Warriors (12 years)
3. Draymond Green - Warriors (11 years)

That's both a credit to the organization and a reminder that the team is getting old.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

You know who probably has the assets and need for somebody like Jrue Holiday?

who?

I got distracted while writing this... I was thinking Miami, he would be a perfect fit there and would come cheaper than Dame.

Another that would be really interesting - Golden State for CP3 and their 26/28 first rounders and maybe something like Moody.

The Clippers have a bunch of flotsam on expirings and could trade their 28/30 picks as well.

This is the one I keep coming back to. CP3 is the perfect salary filler, plus the Warriors have multiple tradable picks, a couple interesting young guys, and a championship window that's rapidly closing.

Warrior only have a 2028 to trade unless they remove the protections on the outgoing 2024 (might not be conveyed until 2026). Outgoing 2030 restricts the 2029

The outgoing 2030 1st is kind of a fake asset since it’s top 20 protected. IMO the remaining 2/3 of that pick would carry at least as much weight as a full 1st from a better, younger team like Boston.

It still prohibits them from moving the 2029

But they could trade their portion of 2030, no?

 

[Navin Johnson]

You know who probably has the assets and need for somebody like Jrue Holiday?

who?

I got distracted while writing this... I was thinking Miami, he would be a perfect fit there and would come cheaper than Dame.

Another that would be really interesting - Golden State for CP3 and their 26/28 first rounders and maybe something like Moody.

The Clippers have a bunch of flotsam on expirings and could trade their 28/30 picks as well.

This is the one I keep coming back to. CP3 is the perfect salary filler, plus the Warriors have multiple tradable picks, a couple interesting young guys, and a championship window that's rapidly closing.

Warrior only have a 2028 to trade unless they remove the protections on the outgoing 2024 (might not be conveyed until 2026). Outgoing 2030 restricts the 2029

The outgoing 2030 1st is kind of a fake asset since it’s top 20 protected. IMO the remaining 2/3 of that pick would carry at least as much weight as a full 1st from a better, younger team like Boston.

It still prohibits them from moving the 2029

But they could trade their portion of 2030, no?

Yes but I'm not sure how that work for POR if the pick falls outside thre protected range (1-20) and conveys to WAS. I don't know if the Stepien Rule kicks in and it can't be carried over outside of seven years, and even if it could, it couldn't become a 2031. Right now, if it ends up being protected it becomes a 2030 second. I guess they can give the same deal, protected 21-30, or becomes a second.

 

[Gatorman]

I think Riley is one of the greatest NBA minds of our generation. I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame. If nothing else comes from this, I hope it's the acceptance and understanding that the market doesn't view Tyler Herro in the same way Heat fans do, which in a way is a tell. If you really thought he was the bees knees, your team wouldn't be so desperate to unload him, no?

I think we've beaten this to death. Good luck this season, keep Tua healthy for me and no offense but FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Mario Cristobal and the Hurricanes.

"GATOR-man"

 

[Tau837]

I feel like I’m about to get put through the wringer by people who are bound to misinterpret the point that I’m about to make. I keep reading that any offer that Miami made that didn’t include Bam was worse—and I agree with that—but I also think that people are completely over estimating the gap between Adebayo and Ayton. To make crystal clear—I think that Bam is the better player—so please don’t infer that I’m suggesting otherwise.

However—look at Bam’s career numbers versus Ayton’s career numbers.
For his career—Ayton has averaged 16.7 points, 10.6, 1.6 assists, 59.7% from the field, and 75.5% from the free throw line.

Adebayo has averaged; 14.7 points, 8.5 rebounds, 3.4 assists, 55.4% from the field, and also 75.5% from the free throw line.

Bam does average more steals and blocks than Ayton—but aside from that—the numbers are very comparable—and arguably favor Ayton. However—keep in mind that Ayton has been averaging these numbers with the limited opportunity as being the THIRD or Fourth option on his team. Bam is putting up comparable numbers being the primary or secondary option thus far in his career. Bam is better—no doubt. However, let’s not act like Bam is god and Ayton is trash. There is a difference between the two—but I don’t think that difference is Jrue Holiday. This is why I think Portland navigated a wonderful trade.

Bam can guard 1-5. Ask the Celtics if they would prefer to see bam back there or lillard.

Was there ever a time where there was a choice between Bam and Lillard? I don't think so. So what's your point?

EDIT: you replied to a post comparing Bam to Ayton. How does that turn into Bam vs. Lillard?

 

[Tau837]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

 

[the moops]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

 

[Navin Johnson]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

 

[msudaisy26]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

If they did that this deal was done months ago. Miami got cute and cheap. Has nothing to do with egos.

 

[msudaisy26]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

 

[the moops]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

Yea they would need to work with OKC to change or eliminate the protections on the 2025 pick they owe them. Currently it is lotto protected in 2025 and unprotected in 2026. Not sure if OKC would play ball without some sort of asset being thrown their way though.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

No, that just allows them to shift it to 27+29. 2031 picks aren't tradeable

 

[Navin Johnson]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

Yea they would need to work with OKC to change or eliminate the protections on the 2025 pick they owe them. Currently it is lotto protected in 2025 and unprotected in 2026. Not sure if OKC would play ball without some sort of asset being thrown their way though.

Only way it could work if it became a24 unprotected

 

[msudaisy26]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

Yea they would need to work with OKC to change or eliminate the protections on the 2025 pick they owe them. Currently it is lotto protected in 2025 and unprotected in 2026. Not sure if OKC would play ball without some sort of asset being thrown their way though.

Only way it could work if it became a24 unprotected

So they could have traded have traded 3 picks if the protections were changed. Which is what we all said.

 

[msudaisy26]

So Jordan Poole said he told Draymond that he was an expensive backpack for Steph to have to carry around and that is why Green hit him.

Green sounds like a mental midget, classic tough guy who can dish it out, but can't take it.

 

[Navin Johnson]

I just don't think Miami ever had the chips to make a trade for Dame.

This is the bottom line.

I think if MIA threw everything in - Herro, Jovic, Jaquez, three picks, Robinson - that is a better offer. Maybe

They don't have three picks

Someone said if they changed the protections they could have 3 picks to deal.

Yea they would need to work with OKC to change or eliminate the protections on the 2025 pick they owe them. Currently it is lotto protected in 2025 and unprotected in 2026. Not sure if OKC would play ball without some sort of asset being thrown their way though.

Only way it could work if it became a24 unprotected

So they could have traded have traded 3 picks if the protections were changed. Which is what we all said.

That's not changing protections, that's moving the pick up an entire year. Almost positive it is unprecedented and OKC isn't playing ball without serious considerations. This is MIA blowing smoke everyone's backside because they blew it on the last four big name players that were all forcing their way out (KD, Harden, Beal, Dame) and naming MIA as a possible landing spot.