CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Celts just have to hope Horford's fountain of youth keeps running another year.
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2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (13 Viewers)
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Celts just have to hope Horford's fountain of youth keeps running another year.
Major
Footballguy
The goal is a title, not a high seed and ECF appearance.
If Mazzulla can't figure it out with all the talent he's surrounded by, he probably shouldn't be coaching
I believe he's good enough to do the latter, but I'm just not sure if he can coach them to the Championship.
I'd hope the goal isnt a high seed and an ECF appearance. They accomplish that every year
General Malaise
Footballguy
Why they call this guy Timelord?
General Malaise
Footballguy
I think I'm going to dress up as Heat Culture for Halloween.
Boston
Footballguy
The legend of Time Lord began shortly after Williams was drafted by the Celtics in 2018. The former Texas A&M big man overslept and missed his introductory conference call with the media and subsequently missed his flight to Boston.
Boston
Footballguy
A week ago if you said Jrue Holladay would be a Celtic it would have seemed like a ludicrous idea...gotta give Brad Stevens a ton of credit here...getting that #1 from Golden State was a big piece of this deal...losing Williams is tough but he is so unreliable health-wise it makes it easy to accept losing him...Brogdon seemed like he was a goner after the initial Porzingas deal was nixed, it did not seem to sit well with him...Jrue is a great addition...it is an upgrade on Smart and brings a veteran maturity this team badly needs...very happy they were able to do this without including Derrick White...very good offseason for Stevens...as stated above hopefully Mazzula grows as a Coach because this team has a very good chance to go the distance.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
Denver is going to play the best next season because they've all been together in the same system for a while now and they have the best player.
Celtics will have to figure out how to make the pieces fit and I'm not sure that Horford won't start for White against most teams. Tatum isn't great at the 4 defensively. Porzingis is going to take a while to get comfortable. Jrue will fit in easily though.
Warriors are getting old and Klay and Green have noticeably declined.
Suns can score, but that is a weak defensive team.
I'd put Bucks at #2. May have some growing pains and Pat is a weak link, but Giannis is a beast and Lillard will make them incredible offensively.
I'd rank them:
1. Nuggets
2. Bucks
3. Celtics
4. Warriors
5. Suns
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Same. A fully healed Jamal Murray is going to be dangerous.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
So essentially the Celtics swapped out Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, Malcom Brogdon, and Grant Williams and replaced them with Kristaps Porzingas and Jrue Holiday. If each player performed the exact same as last year . . .
Smart - 3.7 win shares
Timelord 3.8
Brogdon 5.8
Wililams 4.4
Total: 17.7 win shares
Porzingas 7.7
Holiday 6.7
Total 14.4 win shares
Not entirely sure apples to apples, as the 4 guys contributed 6570 minutes played vs. 4303 for KP and JH. Boston will need to have other bench guys step up to make up the difference, and at the moment the options for those minutes don't look very experienced or talented. The Celtics starters could potentially be better, but for now, the bench looks pretty thin (Horford, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet, and rookie Jordan Walsh to go along with players I am not that familiar with).
Smart - 3.7 win shares
Timelord 3.8
Brogdon 5.8
Wililams 4.4
Total: 17.7 win shares
Porzingas 7.7
Holiday 6.7
Total 14.4 win shares
Not entirely sure apples to apples, as the 4 guys contributed 6570 minutes played vs. 4303 for KP and JH. Boston will need to have other bench guys step up to make up the difference, and at the moment the options for those minutes don't look very experienced or talented. The Celtics starters could potentially be better, but for now, the bench looks pretty thin (Horford, Pritchard, Hauser, Kornet, and rookie Jordan Walsh to go along with players I am not that familiar with).
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Yeah, WS/48 is probably a better metric. First group has a collective .129, while the newbs have a .160. If Jrue and KP maintain their minutes you need an WS/48 of .070 from the innings eaters
Tau837
Footballguy
They also gave up Gallinari. (I know he was hurt last year.)
Major
Footballguy
Amazing how much talent is being monopolized by these 5 teams. Definitely an arms race at the top. And then you have teams like the Heat, Kings and Grizzlies just itching at the Top 5. As much as I hate the Lakers, I'd take them over the Warriors but both teams are getting old and likely to be plagued by injuries. In 2025, give me the Rockets and/or Thunder.
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mr. furley
Footballguy
shame that those aren't individual statistics in a vacuum or you'd be on to something
scoobus
Footballguy
Oshae Brissett!
General Malaise
Footballguy
Tyler Herro and some culture?
Major
Footballguy
Throw in Scola and Brooks and Morey might bite.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Not sure how you say no to that!
Major
Footballguy
Morey loves his Houston Rocket buddies. Might even get Maxey if you throw in a few 2nd round swaps.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Think Jimmy goes a little crazy and heads down the Rodman path?
the comments from that tweet are hilarious lol
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
May end up with Brogdon in a 3-way somehow?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Celts and Bucks both better for sure, but it is interesting Boston basically torpedoed a good roster to try and compete with Miami (and likely the Bucks). I'm much more worried about Timelord vs Miami than I am about Jrue.
Miami likely goes into the season with what they have and waits to see if someone else shakes out. Emo Jimmy was funny at Media day yesterday.
Edit to add: Who knows when it comes to Jimmy. You have to assume he is likely unhappy that Dame is a Buck, but does that piss him off at the NBA or at Riley?
Major
Footballguy
I really hope he keeps it for the regular season. Folks will hate getting posterized by anyone with that do.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
What’s awesome is that hairdo will be his official head shot for any game promo all year. Just like his dreads last year.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Looks like he made the rare Texas trifecta and signed with the Rockets. Surprised one of the bigger contenders didn’t make a run at him - unless he just didn’t want to leave the state.
Boston
Footballguy
The Celtics could not get over the hump…they did not torpedo their roster…they are trying to figure out how to win a title and I give Stevens a ton of credit for not being good with the status quo…the style of play the C’s play can be frustrating at times but they are committed to it and because of that it makes sense to bring in players that are suited for it which they have done.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The problem with Boston the past couple of years was JT and JB had to carry the load and wore down as the season dragged on. The Celtics seemed to put forth too much energy and minutes to starters to win more in the regular season. Their style of play (drive and kick) works better when guys have fresh legs. It's hard to play that way for 100+ games, especially when games turn into half court battles in the post season.
I still think if they have JB and JT bring the ball up the court too often, they will get reckless and have needless turnovers in crunch time. If the potential solution was to keep Tatum and Brown fresh, depleting the bench seems like an odd way to resolve that issue. Maybe Smart was a bigger problem than we realize (he was never really a PG or a SG . . . more of a defensive tweener). Will KP and JH take some of the load off of JT and JB? Will those two be happy if their numbers go down? Who of the bench players will get extra minutes (Pritchard?). Who else can they add as a minutes eating big?
I still think if they have JB and JT bring the ball up the court too often, they will get reckless and have needless turnovers in crunch time. If the potential solution was to keep Tatum and Brown fresh, depleting the bench seems like an odd way to resolve that issue. Maybe Smart was a bigger problem than we realize (he was never really a PG or a SG . . . more of a defensive tweener). Will KP and JH take some of the load off of JT and JB? Will those two be happy if their numbers go down? Who of the bench players will get extra minutes (Pritchard?). Who else can they add as a minutes eating big?
the moops
Footballguy
Porzingis and Holiday will absolutely take some of the load off of those two. Porzingis is a much more dynamic scorer than the two Williams combined (Rob a good passer, but lobs and dunks was all he was good for, and Grant is a good stationary shooter but offered nothing else). Holiday is closer to a more traditional PG than Smart - or at least he will be asked to be that and hopefully will oblige.
I don't think we see Tatum or Brown's numbers go down - they should be able to maintain their averages on better efficiency.
Boston likes Hauser and Kornet. Both those guys will play a lot during the beginning of the year. As will Pritchard. And then you gotta see how the other guys shake out, and if it looks like they need another bench guy, they have tons of 2nds and to trade away.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Boston didn't do that at all, they have had this same core for 5ish years and couldn't get over the top so they shook it up. It is no different than what the Raptors did when they traded for Kawhi. Will they have the same results? We will find out.
No one including yourself is worried more about a part time big like Timelord over a guy like Jrue Holiday. You are trying to confirm your bias about teams like the Celtics being more worried about Bam than Lillard.
Who is Butler pissed at? The world. We all thought it was cute when he took the Twolves scrubs and beat Wiggins, KAT and the rest of the starters in a pick up game. We all though he was a genius when he called out the 76ers for their coaching and front office moves, but it is getting old and it is starting to feel like the diva wr that complains when. He doesn't get the ball.
Boston
Footballguy
Agree with this…the C’s added two high-end players without moving Tatum (obviously), Brown and White…depth is important but you win with studs in the NBA…I feel very confident that Stevens can dig up a solid role player or two and as you noted they have the assets to accomplish that…I am also pretty high on the Walsh kid they drafted from Arkansas…early reports on him are very positive…I think he has a chance to be one of those athletic, high-energy guys that irritates the opponent…if he can develop a solid 3-point shot he could really over-deliver from where he got drafted.
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Jayrod
Footballguy
The Celtics ultimate success will hinge on who they can get as the 3rd big man. Horford is great, but well past his prime and Porzingis can't sustain a full season of 32-35 mpg as a full time C. Losing Robert Williams was worth it because of what Jrue brings, but they have to find his replacement. Doesn't have to be as good as TimeLord, but needs to be better than Kornet.
And anyone wondering how Jrue will fit with the Celtics hasn't watched a lot of NBA. He is known as one of the greatest teammates in the NBA, does everything very well and has almost no ego. He is the greatest signing the Celtics have made since Garnett.
And anyone wondering how Jrue will fit with the Celtics hasn't watched a lot of NBA. He is known as one of the greatest teammates in the NBA, does everything very well and has almost no ego. He is the greatest signing the Celtics have made since Garnett.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I thought it was a strange move all around. He's going to be buried behind all their young guys and Dillon Brooks. So, I don't see this paying off this year in terms of team success, or in the future in terms of showing he is worth more than a minimum contract going forward. For Houston, there is no downside because they probably wanted somebody to take some of the KPJ minutes, but there is very little upside as they don't really need his skill set on a 30 win team.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Brogdan and two seconds for Herro, who says no?
massraider
Footballguy
You can talk about the loss of Williams, but they were already treating him like an old vet with a wonky back. Have to limit his minutes, on and on.
Let someone else hope the gimpy 7 footer gets healthier as he gets older.
Let someone else hope the gimpy 7 footer gets healthier as he gets older.
the moops
Footballguy
Disagree. Kornet is a perfectly fine 3rd big, especially during the regular season.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I think BOS under 54.5 wins isn't a bad bet. When you are that top heavy in you rotation, coming out healthy in April is more important than seeding. Expecting to see more load management with their horses than they have had in th epast
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I like. Here's a good breakdown of the deal: https://www.spurstalk.com/devin-vassell-extension-grades/
Major
Footballguy
Jimmy a diva? LOL. Harden is a diva. Irving is a diva. Jimmy is the heart and soul of the Heat. I think you're reading too much into his schtick.
Kev4029
Footballguy
He played less than 12 minutes a game last year and has never played much more than that - third bigs play twice that much. Wenyen Gabriel is probably at a similar level - maybe he can get them an acceptable 10-15 mpg as well. But when Porzingis and/or Horford are out, they are going to struggle. I think the trade was a great swing for them, but there is a fair chance is completely backfires on them with one bad injury to either Porzingis or Horford or if Horford just declines more than they suspect to catch up to his typical age curve.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Which franchise is going to play better when key pieces are injured and miss some time? In 5 years, Rob Williams managed to play over 1,000 minutes once. He only played 824 minutes last year. They obviously need another big for depth, but as much as I loved Rob, he didn't play all that much. He was either out or played limited minutes recovering from one injury or another.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Jimmy "President Camacho" Buckets
the moops
Footballguy
I mean, yea, if one of their top 2 centers has a bad injury, it is going to be rough. Same can be said for just about every team in the league. And the guy they traded away, Robert Williams is perhaps the most injury prone big in the entire league.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
That's why the Wolves are stacked at center.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I don't believe the Celtics are going to start Tatum at PF very often. They may, but if not then Horford and Porzingis are starting and playing a lot which means Kornet is actually the only big man off the bench. He's fine as a true 3rd Center, but that isn't what we are talking about here.
The big man they need (could be a PF or C) will be playing 20-25 mpg all season long spelling both Horford and Porzingis as the 2nd guy off the bench.
The big man they need (could be a PF or C) will be playing 20-25 mpg all season long spelling both Horford and Porzingis as the 2nd guy off the bench.
Tau837
Footballguy
Pretty sure this has been thoroughly debunked by now, but just wanted to add my two cents. The Celtics arguably have the best top 6 players in the NBA right now if all are healthy. Take that to the bank brohans.
Boston
Footballguy
Brad Stevens with some comments on the current roster:
www.masslive.com
Brad Stevens explains Celtics roster plans after Rob Williams trade
The Celtics have a big void in the frontcourt after dealing Rob Williams.
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