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2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (5 Viewers)

remember when there was a part of the fanbase saying it was a bad idea to get rid of carr, because you can't find another qb right away?

turns out you can find a better option both in a veteran qb and in the 4th round :thanks:
 
it seems clear that the players who were not buying in to mcD's system are gone and now things are running smooth and on time in comparison to last year.

you can't have your starting qb and team leader be the one guy not in lockstep with everyone else. of course a change was needed, it wasn't just a matter of skill at the position.
 
it seems clear that the players who were not buying in to mcD's system are gone and now things are running smooth and on time in comparison to last year.

you can't have your starting qb and team leader be the one guy not in lockstep with everyone else. of course a change was needed, it wasn't just a matter of skill at the position.

we were all super positive and optimistic last preseason as well, when we were undefeated and everything seemed like it was rolling in the right direction.

then the wheels fell off.

I‘m sure it’s mostly just my defense mechanism after decades of abuse and disappointment to not get my hopes up, but I ain’t close to making any claims that the ship is headed in the right direction, and everyone‘s bought in, and all that jazz until it’s proven on the field in games that actually mean something.

I am 10000% hoping you bump this after week 9 to say how clairvoyant you were 2 weeks before the season even started. 🤞
 
regardless of the record. the last starting qb was not buying in to the new system. you can't be better off with a team leader who can't handle the coaching.

I haven't felt good about carr running the offense for years now.

it's not about clairvoyance. it's more that a change was needed and the idea that moving on is not smart because you can't find another qb is wrong. skill wasn't the only problem, but carr's skill level wasn't high enough to overcome his differences with the head coach.

players like brady and gannon could argue with the coach and be fine, because their play on the field backed it up. you get privilege like that when your skill level is high enough, when it's not you get to try again on another team.
 
you can't have your starting qb and team leader be the one guy not in lockstep with everyone else

100% agree. If Carr was being a passive aggressive rebel last year, it absolutely should have been him or McD. And while Carr had tenure on his side, he did not have performance.
Anyone who has followed the Patriots during their dynasty run also knows its always been more about ''The System'' than any other thing , the motto ''Just do your Job '' was the mantra for years. They usually had a bunch of blue chip players with a few high profile players , Dillon, Moss, Brady of course and others of the same ilk, but somehow they just kept winning with this type of methodology . Clearly this has been the plan all along .
 

Training Camp Notebook 8/23 & 8/24: Raiders locked and loaded for preseason finale

Offense


  • Zamir White made a few good runs Wednesday, as he's continuing to prepare for a larger role this season. "I take a lot of reps, and I've just been more locked in," White said of going into Year 2. "I've got to have it right, so just reps probably, just going through that process over and over and finding the key points in the fronts and the blitzes and just knowing all that stuff."
  • Veteran running back Brandon Bolden made a one-handed snag out the backfield, which caught the eye of Divine Deablo, who mentioned it following practice.
  • UDFA Sincere McCormick also made a few nice catches out the backfield Thursday.
  • Both practices were productive for tight ends in the passing game, especially Michael Mayer, Cole Fotheringham and Jesper Horsted.
  • It's yet to be determined how many projected offensive starters will play in Dallas, according to Josh McDaniels: "[T]he four joint practices really were huge for us because there was a huge chunk of work that those guys got in those practices. It was really revealing to us a lot of things, good and bad, and we've been able to gauge a lot off of that and limit the, let's call it risk to some degree. ... We'll sit down tonight and finalize that, but I think there's going to be some guys that won't suit up or won't play."


  • Defense

    • Tyree Wilson's practice reps are ramping up. After seeing action only in individual drills last week in California, he's gotten some work in team period the past two days.
    • "Tyree is doing well," McDaniels said Wednesday morning. "Excited to kind of continue to move forward here. He got a handful of individual reps last week, got a couple of one-on-ones as you guys saw. And then yesterday we were able to kind of move forward into some team stuff, and now will be pads. It's progressing the way we wanted it to, and we'll keep being smart and diligent following the direction of the medical people there, but he's doing great."
    • The interior defensive line competition is still wide open, with Neil Farrell Jr. , Adam Butler, Matthew Butler and Jerry Tillery all making their case for starting or rotational roles.
    • In the secondary, Jaquan Johnson seemed to have a nice day flocking to the ball.

    Special Teams

    • In Wednesday's practice, DeAndre Carter and Ameer Abdullah saw the majority of kick return reps. Carter had a combined 61 yards on a kick return and a punt return against the Rams.
    • In Thursday's practice, rookie Tre Tucker and cornerback Duke Shelley saw time returning punts. Tucker totaled 66 yards on four punt returns against the Rams.
 
it seems clear that the players who were not buying in to mcD's system are gone and now things are running smooth and on time in comparison to last year.

you can't have your starting qb and team leader be the one guy not in lockstep with everyone else. of course a change was needed, it wasn't just a matter of skill at the position.

we were all super positive and optimistic last preseason as well, when we were undefeated and everything seemed like it was rolling in the right direction.

then the wheels fell off.

I‘m sure it’s mostly just my defense mechanism after decades of abuse and disappointment to not get my hopes up, but I ain’t close to making any claims that the ship is headed in the right direction, and everyone‘s bought in, and all that jazz until it’s proven on the field in games that actually mean something.

I am 10000% hoping you bump this after week 9 to say how clairvoyant you were 2 weeks before the season even started. 🤞
agree 100% the things that give me hope are that the o line isn't an absolute disaster. and the d might just possibly maybe have a chance to not totally suck. oh and no more carr ;)
 
The “undefeated in preseason last year “ narrative is not a fair comparison to this year. They are two completely different teams. And I remember last preseason, they did not dominate anyone last year like they dominated the 9ers and Rams this year. That’s the overall positive I see. That means the depth is hopefully stronger and we now have a young QB to look forward to. If JimmyG stays healthy it’s probably a 8 to 9 win season, as usual, they have a tough schedule. But if they figure out how to stop blowing leads and win some games with defense, things will hopefully be looking up for the future of this franchise.
 
Gonna be a curious cutdown day next week. 90 to 53 is no joke, especially this year with so many worthy competitors.


Writeup on Cutdown Day.

We very well may cut Jordan Willis, Matthew Butler, and Nesta Jade.

Dorsett vs. Wilkerson

Bars lost job to Van Roten, and now he has Muti and McClendon Curtis coming after backup jobs.
 
Gonna be a curious cutdown day next week. 90 to 53 is no joke, especially this year with so many worthy competitors.


Writeup on Cutdown Day.

We very well may cut Jordan Willis, Matthew Butler, and Nesta Jade.

Dorsett vs. Wilkerson

Bars lost job to Van Roten, and now he has Muti and McClendon Curtis coming after backup jobs.
nest sounds like he's been killing it
 
I haven't seen or heard anything from Mathew Butler to warrant him staying on the 53. I would think he is safe to move to the PS this year.
 
Very excited and encouraged by what I have seen from AOC. When we picked him I said that he seemed to be the prototypical QB of what McD wants in a QB.

His performance has been impressive in preseason. Not just stats but his presence and how he plays. It never looked like he was rattled or nervous at all. He seems to have a good idea of the system.

I am on record as saying Jimmy G will do well as QB but my issue is the expectation of him not holding up and then it looked like we had to go to Hoyer which the thought of that made me puke.

Now, with the rising of AOC as a promising prospect of not just backup material but perhaps a very good starting QB I am now much more comfortable with Jimmy G playing until he inevitably is hurt an AOC comes in.
 
Very excited and encouraged by what I have seen from AOC. When we picked him I said that he seemed to be the prototypical QB of what McD wants in a QB.

His performance has been impressive in preseason. Not just stats but his presence and how he plays. It never looked like he was rattled or nervous at all. He seems to have a good idea of the system.

I am on record as saying Jimmy G will do well as QB but my issue is the expectation of him not holding up and then it looked like we had to go to Hoyer which the thought of that made me puke.

Now, with the rising of AOC as a promising prospect of not just backup material but perhaps a very good starting QB I am now much more comfortable with Jimmy G playing until he inevitably is hurt an AOC comes in.

Ideally Hoyer doesn't make the 53 and is moved to PS in order to protect one of the new young bucks, but he probably makes the active roster this year, thanks to this:

YEAR AGEBASE SALARYSIGNINGROSTERROSTER/GMWORKOUTCAP HITDEAD CAPYEARLY CASHCASH AAV
2023lv.png38$1,165,000$437,500-$30,000-$1,632,500$4,205,000$2,167,500($2,167,500)$2,167,500
2024lv.png39$1,210,000$437,500$955,000$127,500$40,000$2,770,000$2,602,500$2,332,500($4,500,000)$2,250,000
 
Before we get all high and mighty with Grudock hate over the above,

Chandler's contract is equivalent to 2-3 of the above deals unless he makes a dramatic turn around. And BTW, don't be shocked if Chan is released (or traded for peanuts) next week to make room for some of the young DL that are healthy right now and actually contributing. While doing that would create $12 MM in dead cap next year, it would actually free up ~$1 MM in cap space this year.

And either way, they are almost surely getting that $12 MM dead cap charge when they cut him next off-season, given his age and $16 MM base salary in 2024. So if the $12 MM dead cap next year is essentially already baked in, and they'd free up $1 MM to cut him right now to keep one of their ascending young-ins...

I believe Chan is very much on the chopping block. And I'm for it if the dude is already hurt. Too many young bloods ready to make waves in his place.

PRE-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $25,600,000
2023 Cap Savings: $-11,356,000
PRE-6/1 TRADE
2023 Dead Cap: $24,435,000
2023 Cap Savings: $-10,191,000
POST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $13,332,000
2024 Dead Cap: $12,268,000
2023 Cap Savings: $912,000
POST-6/1 TRADE
2023 Dead Cap: $12,167,000
2024 Dead Cap: $12,268,000
2023 Cap Savings: $2,077,000

YEAR AGEBASE SALARYSIGNINGROSTERROSTER/GMWORKOUTRESTRUCTUREMISC.CAP HITDEAD CAPYEARLY CASHCASH AAV
2022lv.png32$4,000,000$2,400,000$660,000-$252,000-$500,000$7,812,000$32,252,000$17,412,000($17,412,000)$17,412,000
2023lv.png33$1,165,000$2,400,000$8,500,000$660,000$252,000$1,267,000-$14,244,000$25,600,000$17,000,000($34,412,000)$17,206,000
2024lv.png34$16,000,000$2,400,000-$748,000$252,000$1,267,000-$20,667,000$12,268,000$17,000,000($51,412,000)$17,137,333
 
As for trading him for peanuts... Before you laugh me off the thread,

The acquiring team would only be on the hook for $1.165 MM base + 748k roster bonuses (if they have him active for all 17 games). So ~$1 MM in base guaranteed risk, and up to ~$2 MM total pay for 2023, IF he plays all 17 games. Then next offseason, they can cut him with $0 dead cap. Not a terrible scenario for a team that has a need at DE, assuming he can pass a phyiscal.
 
remember when there was a part of the fanbase saying it was a bad idea to get rid of carr, because you can't find another qb right away?

turns out you can find a better option both in a veteran qb and in the 4th round :thanks:
Not saying you won’t be right, but a bit early to be making this call, no?
if youve seen the history of handsome Dan , i.e., Jimmy G, he'll last like 4 games before he breaks down. Enter O'connell. he's going to have some lengthy playing time this season, just because jimmy G can't stay healthy, we all know this. and o-connell looks like 2023 version of 2022 brock purdy., jusss sayin..
 
Before we get all high and mighty with Grudock hate over the above,

Chandler's contract is equivalent to 2-3 of the above deals unless he makes a dramatic turn around. And BTW, don't be shocked if Chan is released (or traded for peanuts) next week to make room for some of the young DL that are healthy right now and actually contributing. While doing that would create $12 MM in dead cap next year, it would actually free up ~$1 MM in cap space this year.

And either way, they are almost surely getting that $12 MM dead cap charge when they cut him next off-season, given his age and $16 MM base salary in 2024. So if the $12 MM dead cap next year is essentially already baked in, and they'd free up $1 MM to cut him right now to keep one of their ascending young-ins...

I believe Chan is very much on the chopping block. And I'm for it if the dude is already hurt. Too many young bloods ready to make waves in his place.

PRE-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $25,600,000
2023 Cap Savings: $-11,356,000
PRE-6/1 TRADE
2023 Dead Cap: $24,435,000
2023 Cap Savings: $-10,191,000
POST-6/1 RELEASE
2023 Dead Cap: $13,332,000
2024 Dead Cap: $12,268,000
2023 Cap Savings: $912,000
POST-6/1 TRADE
2023 Dead Cap: $12,167,000
2024 Dead Cap: $12,268,000
2023 Cap Savings: $2,077,000

YEARAGEBASE SALARYSIGNINGROSTERROSTER/GMWORKOUTRESTRUCTUREMISC.CAP HITDEAD CAPYEARLY CASHCASH AAV
2022View attachment 418232$4,000,000$2,400,000$660,000-$252,000-$500,000$7,812,000$32,252,000$17,412,000($17,412,000)$17,412,000
2023View attachment 418333$1,165,000$2,400,000$8,500,000$660,000$252,000$1,267,000-$14,244,000$25,600,000$17,000,000($34,412,000)$17,206,000
2024View attachment 418434$16,000,000$2,400,000-$748,000$252,000$1,267,000-$20,667,000$12,268,000$17,000,000($51,412,000)$17,137,333
Ok, that’s one deal.

why carry water for Gruden and Mayock. They sucked, they are gone, and neither has done **** since they left.
 
Is Chandler Jones injured?
Bump
i searched and the answer is no
Thanks
Chandler's contract is equivalent to 2-3 of the above deals unless he makes a dramatic turn around. And BTW, don't be shocked if Chan is released (or traded for peanuts) next week to make room for some of the young DL that are healthy right now and actually contributing
So, what did you mean by the bolded?
 
it would actually free up ~$1 MM in cap space this year.
And either way, they are almost surely getting that $12 MM dead cap charge when they cut him next off-season, given his age and $16 MM base salary in 2024. So if the $12 MM dead cap next year is essentially already baked in, and they'd free up $1 MM to cut him right now to keep one of their ascending young-ins...
Check your math sir.
2023 Cap Savings: $-11,356,000
That's minus eleven million in savings. That's Bernie Ebbers strategy there. 2023 cap hit = $14.244 M and dead hit = $25.6M. They would eat $11M+ more to cut him this year and there's only ~$3M in 2023 cap space available. Yes, that would end up avoiding next year's $12M dead, and get the aggregate ~$1M savings, but they don't have the 2023 cap space to make the move.

There's also the chance he's productive and/or a good locker room influence for the young guys and willing to take less in 2024. His pro-rate next year is only $4m so if they can get him to take a pay cut to say $6M they can reduce his 2024 cap number by half and wait until 2025 to eat the last $8M dead. Any way you cut it it's an epically bad contract just pissing away $50M worth of roster resource, but all they can do now is deal with it.
 
Is Chandler Jones injured?
Bump
i searched and the answer is no
Thanks
Chandler's contract is equivalent to 2-3 of the above deals unless he makes a dramatic turn around. And BTW, don't be shocked if Chan is released (or traded for peanuts) next week to make room for some of the young DL that are healthy right now and actually contributing
So, what did you mean by the bolded?
So i did find this after refining my search

When searching Chandler injuries his old injuries pop up, nothing recent , in print anyways , but this video does talk about him missing practice but no mention of his injury or what it is , very vague .
 
@Hankmoody

It's $1 MM in cap savings for 2023, since it is after June 1. If they cut him today, they eliminate his $14 MM cap hit for this year, but take on $13 MM 2023 dead money, for a net cap savings of $1 MM this year.

This would result in a $12 MM dead cap number in 2024, but they have to deal with that regardless, since they are almost surely cutting him next offseason to avoid paying him his $16 MM 2024 salary.

So if they have to take a $12 MM hit next year no matter what, then they have little reason to keep him this year if
a. he is not healthy,
b. they would need to cut a promising young DL in his place, and
c. he is a bum.
 
Last edited:
Per Tom Pelissero, via Faust and the Jacobs thread,

Josh has resigned and has returned to the team. Upgraded 1 year deal. Who would've thought of such a thing?!? :)
 
Now they just need to cut or trade Jones and keep Adam Plant or one of the Butlers. Here's my stab at the 53 with a Jones trade. Short ~$1 MM in cap space, so would need to restructure one of the vets just a bit to free up a little room.


$50 MM in dead cap this year would be reduced to $12 MM in 2024. That $40 in cap would go a long way in adding to this roster. Would also make it easy to give Jacobs a couple additional years of bigtime guaranteed money.
 
Considering the money involved, think I am cool with seeing if Chandler can be a healthy vet for us this year.

I know it was rude of him to get injured last year, but I tend to be forgiving.
 
Jones has been very loud about how he feels better than he ever has and fully healthy. Jones is a guy that knows technique so if you rotate him in and out I think he can deliver good quality snaps for us. With Wilson, it makes sense that we do that. We don't need or want to rotate Maxx out much but a lot of substitutions going on between Jones and Wilson will help both of them but certainly help Jones.
 

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