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2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (4 Viewers)

DocHolliday said:
Chadstroma said:
The Dolphins are a tough team in general and I think they are a mismatch for us right now on the defensive side of the ball.

Offensively, there is no doubt that this is Jacobs game to win or lose for us. He will be the offense today. They will try to pound the Dolphins to the dust but the problem is if our defense can't slow them down then we will end up having to throw a lot to get in and I don't think we can win a shoot out with the Dolphins right now.

I am prepared for a loss. Would love to see a win. But if we hand in tough and make it a game, then I think that would show progress from what we have seen over the last 20 years let alone the last year and a half.
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Well said. The Raiders simply don’t have the talent on D to stop Miami or the talent on O keep up with them.
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This team has that 2002 Oakland Athletics moneyball feel to it .
 
Bruno2 said:
What a difference great leadership makes. Hard to believe this is the same group of men who went to Chicago and embarrassed themselves.
I’ll take 13-14 at the half any day.
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Gotta get that run game going, only down by 7 heading into the 4th

This is so winnable
 
Rookie QB showing in the second half that he still has a long way to go, I just don’t see the team being successful with a pocket passer that can’t scramble.
 
CGRdrJoe said:
Rookie QB showing in the second half that he still has a long way to go, I just don’t see the team being successful with a pocket passer that can’t scramble.
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No way should they be putting the game on AOCs shoulders , RUN THE BALL
 
They played hard. And did much better than I thought they would. That D is the surprise of the season for me. The O on the other hand. Oooof. AOC is not the answer. IMHO.
 
DA RAIDERS said:
They played hard. And did much better than I thought they would. That D is the surprise of the season for me. The O on the other hand. Oooof. AOC is not the answer. IMHO.
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No probably not. He’s a likable guy but we just had 9 years of a likable QB that was just average to decent. It’s time to get a dynamic QB, who can make plays off script and on the run. We need greatness at QB not just ok anymore.
 
if aoc had been a 1st round pick would he be given more than 4 starts before being written off? I don't understand this thinking under these circumstances. plenty of games to go after a head coaching and OC change mid season. line was shaky with kolton miller, without him it's much worse.

maxx crosby was also a 4th round pick and had we judged him by his first 4 games on a bad defense lol

offense still needs time because of all the changes at OC and the line being bad + the best offensive linemen being out.

not sure what fans are expecting here, but the team didn't get ran over the way some thought. dolphins escaped what was supposed to be an easy win for them. it wasn't so easy.
 
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raidersraidersraiders said:
if aoc had been a 1st round pick would he be given more than 4 starts before being written off? I don't understand this thinking under these circumstances. plenty of games to go after a head coaching and OC change mid season. line was shaky with kolton miller, without him it's much worse.

maxx crosby was also a 4th round pick and had we judged him by his first 4 games on a bad defense lol

offense still needs time because of all the changes at OC and the line being bad + the best offensive linemen being out.

not sure what fans are expecting here, but the team didn't get ran over the way some thought. dolphins escaped what was supposed to be an easy win for them. it wasn't so easy.
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Now we see what kind of heart they have , see how they rebound next week , what kind of adjustments they make .
 
I expect kolton to be back which will help tremendously.

defense just proved they can still hold up against a strong offense.

it's definitely a learning experience for the head coach, offensive coordinator and rookie qb. if they can get things going with how the defense is playing the team will finish strong.
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
if aoc had been a 1st round pick would he be given more than 4 starts before being written off? I don't understand this thinking under these circumstances. plenty of games to go after a head coaching and OC change mid season. line was shaky with kolton miller, without him it's much worse.

maxx crosby was also a 4th round pick and had we judged him by his first 4 games on a bad defense lol

offense still needs time because of all the changes at OC and the line being bad + the best offensive linemen being out.

not sure what fans are expecting here, but the team didn't get ran over the way some thought. dolphins escaped what was supposed to be an easy win for them. it wasn't so easy.
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I was thinking the same thing. While wins would be great, we have to be realistic. This team needs work. AOC is a rookie and should have the rest of the year to be evaluated. I find it interesting that now the defense is playing well. Actually, I don’t really understand how it is playing so well.
 
patrick graham was a great hire. the defense is underfunded and it would be sad to see a change up that removes what he's doing. imagine the defense with more money and draft picks put into it
 
AOC had a rough one, as did Tucker. Not ready to give up on either though. I look for flashes from rookies. Both have shown flashes. OL didn't do favors and AOC needs to have a faster internal clock. Headlights deer is not a good look and he fell into that too many times today. Again, tho, rookie going against a Fangio D. Not ready to write him off, but the rest of the schedule is no joke so what we need to see from here on is growth and more flashes.
 
LawFitz said:
AOC had a rough one, as did Tucker. Not ready to give up on either though. I look for flashes from rookies. Both have shown flashes. OL didn't do favors and AOC needs to have a faster internal clock. Headlights deer is not a good look and he fell into that too many times today. Again, tho, rookie going against a Fangio D. Not ready to write him off, but the rest of the schedule is no joke so what we need to see from here on is growth and more flashes.
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I feel like AOC needs to know where a guy like Ramsey is on the field , and throw as far away from him as possible . One of the INTs he threw the ball to Tucker i believe (not the last play of the game ) and it was Ramsey on him, that means hes not on anyone else , why throw to Tucker? I know hes a rookie and probably doesnt understand just how good Ramsey is , but he should do his homework . I think they let AOC loose and he isnt ready to take over a game . I kept screaming at my tv.... ''Check down to Mayers or Jacobs or Renfrow , stop throwing it long''

Thats on the OC and they will make adjustments im sure .
 
www.youtube.com

Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast Complete Recap of the Loss to the Miami Dolphins #lasvegasraiders

Las Vegas Raiders Insider Podcast Complete Recap of the Loss to the Miami Dolphins
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

hondo making some great points here about o'connell going through OTAs and training camp as the 3rd string and getting little to no reps with what mcdaniel installed on offense. so there's nothing to draw back from in the playbook for him. it's just the last few weeks and that's it. makes it easy on opposing defenses to lock in on what the offense is trying to do.

I expect to see the most improvement after the bye week. the extra time to prepare should be a big help.

another mcdaniel screw up was not making aoc 2nd string through OTAs and training camp. what was the point of having hoyer take the reps when he already knows the system.
 
ZADO said:
LawFitz said:
AOC had a rough one, as did Tucker. Not ready to give up on either though. I look for flashes from rookies. Both have shown flashes. OL didn't do favors and AOC needs to have a faster internal clock. Headlights deer is not a good look and he fell into that too many times today. Again, tho, rookie going against a Fangio D. Not ready to write him off, but the rest of the schedule is no joke so what we need to see from here on is growth and more flashes.
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I feel like AOC needs to know where a guy like Ramsey is on the field , and throw as far away from him as possible . One of the INTs he threw the ball to Tucker i believe (not the last play of the game ) and it was Ramsey on him, that means hes not on anyone else , why throw to Tucker? I know hes a rookie and probably doesnt understand just how good Ramsey is , but he should do his homework . I think they let AOC loose and he isnt ready to take over a game . I kept screaming at my tv.... ''Check down to Mayers or Jacobs or Renfrow , stop throwing it long''

Thats on the OC and they will make adjustments im sure .
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Yup, saw those check downs too. In fairness tho, this was AOC's MO in college, and a key reason why his draft grade was hampered. Lots of wow plays and a few too many head scratchers. But again, not writing him off. Just trying to be fair and keeping his assessment real. Hoping the Raiders do the same. AOC has to disprove these doubts by season end, or he can look forward to competing with another (hopefully) highly drafted rookie next year.
 
i'm not writing him off quite yet either. he just isn't passing my eyeball test. he still looks so slow. slow decision making. slow afoot. maybe he'll start to speed up as he gets more comfortable. but atm he makes hoyer look spry
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
if aoc had been a 1st round pick would he be given more than 4 starts before being written off? I don't understand this thinking under these circumstances. plenty of games to go after a head coaching and OC change mid season. line was shaky with kolton miller, without him it's much worse.

maxx crosby was also a 4th round pick and had we judged him by his first 4 games on a bad defense lol

offense still needs time because of all the changes at OC and the line being bad + the best offensive linemen being out.

not sure what fans are expecting here, but the team didn't get ran over the way some thought. dolphins escaped what was supposed to be an easy win for them. it wasn't so easy.
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my issue is that he has 0 mobility, yes i’m judging him on that. Players on defense are so fast and highly skilled that pocket passers with poor pass protection are going to fail. when line backers don’t have to spy on the qb and can drop deeper to help with coverage it gives the d line time to get home.
 
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but from the box score I think we have to be pretty ok with the result. A rookie OC/QB/HC combo just went to the east coast and lost only by 7 after throwing 3 Ints, while their starting LT was out? What would have been the result if it was McDaniels and Jimmy G in there?

Nobody expected AOC, AP, and Bo to run the table here. No reason for panic after that loss. It's an opportunity to learn and test the grit of the team.

On to the next.
 
kaso said:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but from the box score I think we have to be pretty ok with the result. A rookie OC/QB/HC combo just went to the east coast and lost only by 7 after throwing 3 Ints, while their starting LT was out? What would have been the result if it was McDaniels and Jimmy G in there?

Nobody expected AOC, AP, and Bo to run the table here. No reason for panic after that loss. It's an opportunity to learn and test the grit of the team.

On to the next.
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The box score doesn’t paint the picture :shrug: 0 first downs in the second and third quarter and he won’t leave the pocket under any circumstances. I mean I get he has 0 wheels but he has to at least scramble out of the pocket. Miami had 3 turn overs as well and looked very beatable as the more of their players got hurt.
 
kaso said:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but from the box score I think we have to be pretty ok with the result. A rookie OC/QB/HC combo just went to the east coast and lost only by 7 after throwing 3 Ints, while their starting LT was out? What would have been the result if it was McDaniels and Jimmy G in there?

Nobody expected AOC, AP, and Bo to run the table here. No reason for panic after that loss. It's an opportunity to learn and test the grit of the team.

On to the next.
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I didn't see the game either but if anyone has an angle that two wins and then playing the Dolphins in a winable game losing by a touchdown isn't progress.... I am all ears. This was a game we were supposed to lose even while hoping we could pull off the win. You can't be happy with a loss regardless but this isn't a loss that tells us we are headed in the wrong direction.... still.
 
Chadstroma said:
kaso said:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but from the box score I think we have to be pretty ok with the result. A rookie OC/QB/HC combo just went to the east coast and lost only by 7 after throwing 3 Ints, while their starting LT was out? What would have been the result if it was McDaniels and Jimmy G in there?

Nobody expected AOC, AP, and Bo to run the table here. No reason for panic after that loss. It's an opportunity to learn and test the grit of the team.

On to the next.
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I didn't see the game either but if anyone has an angle that two wins and then playing the Dolphins in a winable game losing by a touchdown isn't progress.... I am all ears. This was a game we were supposed to lose even while hoping we could pull off the win. You can't be happy with a loss regardless but this isn't a loss that tells us we are headed in the wrong direction.... still.
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progress.. i suppose.

the defense is KILLING it. but they still gave up 422 yards and 6.2 yards per play. the turnovers really kept the miami scoring in check. the D also made a goal line stand on 4th down. and miami missed a fg. the game easily could have been 30-13. or worse. kudos to the D!!

the offense is really really bad. 13 points. 0 points in the 2nd half. can't stay silent about how bad it is just because mcdonkey is gone. it's still really bad. the D got them the ball twice inside the miami 30. resulting in 2 fgs i'm aware that miller missed the game.

AP is a great sound bite. he is the raiders i grew up with. i'm a few years older than AP. i grew up in downtown LA, in the LA raider heydays. maybe 3 miles to the coliseum. he most likely will not be the coach next year. maybe. but i doubt it. with the offense performing like this, bo will be gone. PG deserves to stay. champ very may keep his job, but he's really an unknown commodity. which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

for me this game was very telling. the D is legit and is on the rise. the O is utter garbage. doesn't matter who's at QB. the statue that is super trooper is not the answer. Bo probably is not a wunderkind.(i was hoping he would be)

i'll be in vegas next week for the game. RN4L!!
 
We have a rookie QB that really shouldn't be playing but we made the boneheaded move to bring Jimmy G as our starting QB and then Hoyer as our backup. O'Connell earned the right to get the starting job by outplaying both of those guys but he is still a rookie. Most, and when I say most, it is by a large margin, of rookie QB's are bad. For every Roethlisberger, Purdy or Stroud there are a dozen rookies who struggle badly and it isn't a reflection of them being a legit QB or not... it is them being a rookie.

Now, is O'Connell starting quality? I think he is on the line of being a decent starter or quality backup. But give him the season, see how he progresses or doesn't to then judge him. Don't judge a freaking rookie QB who started the season as the third QB (which means he basically saw very few real snaps in offseason and practices) on his first, what... 4 starts? And even more so going against likely the best CB duo in the league with one of the better pass rushers on the team as well.

Progress is what I am looking for here. Playoffs is a dream. Realistically, this is rebuilding after making yet another bad hiring decision in McD. What I want to see is how the team responds and how they fight moving forward. Are they getting better or are they regressing. Everything I have seen in watching them play and then looking at the boxscore tells me that they are progressing. I am not about to make any judgements on who should do what regarding coaching staff and roster moves until the season ends.
 
Chadstroma said:
Don't judge a freaking rookie QB who started the season as the third QB (which means he basically saw very few real snaps in offseason and practices) on his first, what... 4 starts? And even more so going against likely the best CB duo in the league with one of the better pass rushers on the team as well.
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Plus a very crafty and aggressive DC in Fangio, who I am sure was dialing up a bunch of exotic looks and blitzes that would have any rookie's head spinning.
 
DA RAIDERS said:
Chadstroma said:
kaso said:
I didn't get a chance to watch the game, but from the box score I think we have to be pretty ok with the result. A rookie OC/QB/HC combo just went to the east coast and lost only by 7 after throwing 3 Ints, while their starting LT was out? What would have been the result if it was McDaniels and Jimmy G in there?

Nobody expected AOC, AP, and Bo to run the table here. No reason for panic after that loss. It's an opportunity to learn and test the grit of the team.

On to the next.
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I didn't see the game either but if anyone has an angle that two wins and then playing the Dolphins in a winable game losing by a touchdown isn't progress.... I am all ears. This was a game we were supposed to lose even while hoping we could pull off the win. You can't be happy with a loss regardless but this isn't a loss that tells us we are headed in the wrong direction.... still.
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progress.. i suppose.

the defense is KILLING it. but they still gave up 422 yards and 6.2 yards per play. the turnovers really kept the miami scoring in check. the D also made a goal line stand on 4th down. and miami missed a fg. the game easily could have been 30-13. or worse. kudos to the D!!

the offense is really really bad. 13 points. 0 points in the 2nd half. can't stay silent about how bad it is just because mcdonkey is gone. it's still really bad. the D got them the ball twice inside the miami 30. resulting in 2 fgs i'm aware that miller missed the game.

AP is a great sound bite. he is the raiders i grew up with. i'm a few years older than AP. i grew up in downtown LA, in the LA raider heydays. maybe 3 miles to the coliseum. he most likely will not be the coach next year. maybe. but i doubt it. with the offense performing like this, bo will be gone. PG deserves to stay. champ very may keep his job, but he's really an unknown commodity. which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

for me this game was very telling. the D is legit and is on the rise. the O is utter garbage. doesn't matter who's at QB. the statue that is super trooper is not the answer. Bo probably is not a wunderkind.(i was hoping he would be)

i'll be in vegas next week for the game. RN4L!!
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I look at the play vs the Jets when AOC moved inside the pocket like a master and bought enough time to not only find Mayer , but throw the ball where only the TE could get it .
Tom Brady is a statue who developed a spider sense and could feel pressure and moved just enough to get the ball away . It takes time to develop that sense . Im not comparing AOC to the Goat , but thats how guys like them (white statues ) learn to play and some become great without ripping off 50 yard td`s running downfield .
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
if o'connell turns out to be average, but at a much lower salary cap hit. then there's more to build the team up around him, especially the lines on both sides
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Right. This is why Stidham should have been the replacement for Carr for this year. I am completely against paying average QBs $20M+ or more. I believe they can get out of the Jimmy deal so it doesn't kill them, but stop overpaying average QBs. Pay up when you find a guy that is a game changer at QB. Think the Giants regret paying Daniel Jones $40M per year?
 
Very surprised at the final score. I thought the Fish were going to run the Raiders outta the building yesterday.

The defense played outstanding, but strangely Crosby was relatively quiet. The Dline has played really well up-to-this point. The team desperately needs a shutdown CB.

AOC played well, despite the 3 INTs. I do not blame two of those on him honestly. Overall the Oline protected AOC pretty well. I felt like they went away from the run too soon. What was really bothersome was that there were multiple times when the protection was good and the receivers couldn't get open. I really wish the team used some pick concepts like some other teams.

Raiders punter is stud.
 
meatball in his prime type average or carr level, but without the happy feet and redzone allergy


once you build up a team and have to pay an average qb big money. you will find deficiencies popping up all over as cap cuts happen.

next year so much dead cap comes off + 4th round qb on rookie contract + draft should equal some good results
 
LawFitz said:
Chadstroma said:
Don't judge a freaking rookie QB who started the season as the third QB (which means he basically saw very few real snaps in offseason and practices) on his first, what... 4 starts? And even more so going against likely the best CB duo in the league with one of the better pass rushers on the team as well.
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Plus a very crafty and aggressive DC in Fangio, who I am sure was dialing up a bunch of exotic looks and blitzes that would have any rookie's head spinning.
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Good point. I wanted Fangio for our DC before we hired Graham.
 
ICON211 said:
raidersraidersraiders said:
if o'connell turns out to be average, but at a much lower salary cap hit. then there's more to build the team up around him, especially the lines on both sides
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Right. This is why Stidham should have been the replacement for Carr for this year. I am completely against paying average QBs $20M+ or more. I believe they can get out of the Jimmy deal so it doesn't kill them, but stop overpaying average QBs. Pay up when you find a guy that is a game changer at QB. Think the Giants regret paying Daniel Jones $40M per year?
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Jimmy G "average". That is kind of you.
 
ZADO said:
Gotta love the rumor mill.

The 2 i read recently was the Pats trading for Jimmy G .
The Raiders trading for Justin Fields next season.
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Click bait.... not even the most over rated coach in football history is dumb enough to trade for Jimmy G. If anyone really wanted him (that is a big if as he has been exposed as nothing when he doesn't have guys he vsn throw to within 10 yards and then get 50 YAC and a top D to win the games for him) they just have to wait until the off season when we cut him.
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
meatball in his prime type average or carr level, but without the happy feet and redzone allergy


once you build up a team and have to pay an average qb big money. you will find deficiencies popping up all over as cap cuts happen.

next year so much dead cap comes off + 4th round qb on rookie contract + draft should equal some good results
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I think one needs slightly better than that To really compete.
dobbs, mayfield, stafford, smith, burrow, wilson are 14-19 so far this year. Carr is 20th.

i think the goal should top 15. :shrug:
 
Chadstroma said:
Fields is under rated and getting a bum deal here in Chicago.
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Maybe. Doesn't matter to the fans, If their draft pick is sniffing any top rated QB, he's gone. The people who have the balls to pass on Maye/Williams/whoever, and roll with Fields at the end of his contract, don't have NFL jobs. Anyone with a job to protect is taking the new shiny toy.

He would need to be putting up passing numbers the rest of the year. Not just 100 yards on the ground, and 8-12 attempts from the air. He needs to be a better thrower of the football than AOC is already.

Hey, I can see a world where the Bears trade Fields to the Raiders to make room for Maye, and I would be really excited by that.
 
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