the moops
Footballguy
Our boy Tatum just shot 28% in this years 19 games. Small sample and all
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2024-25 NBA Thread: Jimmy Butler demands trade to team with good culture (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Someone will get out whenever they figure out how to expand to Vegas at least.
Capella
Footballguy
Memphis
Yo Mama
Footballguy
This Tom Haberstroh article was interesting to me. He dug into Jordan’s 1988 DPOY season and saw some crazy home/road splits in his defensive stats. There was even a game where Jordan had more steals than the other team had turnovers.
There was some serious home-cooked stat padding back in the 80s-90s. The Grizzlies stat guy must have used that as inspiration for the JJJ season.
sports.yahoo.com
LeBron’s stat guys would never.
There was some serious home-cooked stat padding back in the 80s-90s. The Grizzlies stat guy must have used that as inspiration for the JJJ season.
A closer look at Michael Jordan's 1988 DPOY award raises questions about its validity. Has LeBron James been chasing a ghost?
New research reveals Jordan's Defensive Player of the Year season likely included home-biased stats.
sports.yahoo.com
LeBron’s stat guys would never.
Jayrod
Footballguy
I'll own it that my take about him defense and shooting was off base.
But he is not a "great player" either. This isn't some league altering coup. The guy has started 130 regular season and 5 playoff games total and is already 30.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Because Caruso isn't that much better than Giddey.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
You still drunk from the parade?
Jayrod
Footballguy
I feel like I'm in bizarro world with the Caruso drooling in here. Guy had the best season of his career and averaged 10.1/3.8/3.5 with 1.7 steals and 1.0 blocks. I'm not saying he's not good and I'm not saying he's not an upgrade from Giddey, he's just not a first round pick better and he doesn't make OKC the sudden title favorites.
Jayrod
Footballguy
And Springfield, MO did not have a parade unfortunately.
I think us 2 dozen Celtics fans in town could've had a nice happy hour together, though.
I thought they’d use him as an asset to help get someone to take Lavine.
the moops
Footballguy
There was talk of multiple first being out there for him last year. That it became Giddey instead is kinda shocking.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
As a laker fan, he’s better than Austin reaves. They should have kept Caruso.
the moops
Footballguy
This surprises me. That was the max they could offer him. I was sure someone would top that offer
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
He's absolutely great in his role: point of attack defense, calling out other teams plays, leadership, hustle (he just won the NBA Hustle award--not everyone knows that's a thing), drawing charges and creating other offensive fouls and turnovers, deflections, etc. It's a role that fits great with any contender as he impacts the game without taking the ball away from his team's stars.
I think he might be getting more credit for his shooting than he deserves. He's one of those guys that almost exclusively takes wide open threes. Although that's likely what he'll do with OKC as well. The big question about Caruso is if he can stay healthy enough to stay on the floor. He plays with such reckless abandon. He did manage 67 and 71 games played the last two years but he's played through so many injuries and that's going to be tougher and tougher as he ages.
Shifting to Chicago's side, I don't see how this is all going to work. If they were rebuilding, Giddey would make more sense. Give him the keys on a bad team and let him develop. He's still 21 and it's easy to still see the potential. However, everything that the front office has said has been anti-tanking. I can see Giddey fitting in with Coby White and Ayo. But will the Bulls be able to trade LaVine? Will they bring back DeRozan (before this trade, the general belief was they would)? Will Lonzo Ball be able to play? With all these other guys, Giddey might end up playing too much of the role he winded up playing in OKC.
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Capella
Footballguy
Magic fans had him targeted. I wasn’t sure he’s the answer to their problems (not an amazing 3 pt shooter) but he’s gone now. Maybe there wasn’t as big of a market for him as thought?
I'm a little surprised but I've been arguing with other Kings fans that this was more likely than the Magic or someone throwing him a 4/$100 million deal. The Magic couldn't go more than 2 years without the deal causing a lot of luxury tax problems down the line. More fundamentally, Monk is good but he's too inconsistent to warrant that kind of deal. I thought Hollinger's free agent rankings sort of shockingly undervalued Monk relative to other free agents, but interestingly this deal comes out at almost exactly what Hollinger's formula said he was worth.
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
Now they can go after Klay.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Apparently we might be buying out Lonzo. Something tells me that dudes career is over
DJackson10
Footballguy
SO lakers hired Lebrons mouthpiece. Lebrons career really is going downhill. Now when the lakers fall short at least he has a coach who’ll defend him and blame everyone else. Never his fault
Frostillicus
Footballguy
It was a good run.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I love the trade for OKC. Opposing teams would let Giddey shoot from the perimeter—they cannot do this with Caruso. Also, pairing up Caruso with Dort gives OKC another defensive specialist. With Coby White stepping up this past season, I’m not exactly sure how Giddey will be used in Chicago. With Lonzo getting a major knee procedure done, maybe they play Coby off of the ball and let Giddey play the former Lonzo role? Either way, I’m not a big fan of the move for Chicago.
massraider
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Wrong thread. So last year.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I remember ignoring him YEARS ago and you giving me crap about it. Huh.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Time will tell, but my point is that Caruso is not worth Giddey + 1st rounder nor is he the guy to get OKC to a championship like many in here have implied.
I can both be wrong about my details AND correct in my intended point.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
The other thing with Giddey is the Thunder were looking to move him since he will be a free agent (restricted) after this year and they didn’t want to have to overpay him. Are the Bulls going to feel the need to pay him more next year given that they gave up a solid asset for him?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I can’t imagine the Bulls making this trade without viewing Giddey as a long-term piece. Otherwise, they would have traded AC elsewhere.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
OKC got an all-defense guard who is a great fit offensively (can hit open threes and plays well off the ball) and all they had to give up is a player not in their long term plans who they didn’t want to pay. They made a move to immediately improve their young roster without giving up any of their gazillion picks in the process.
Multiple teams would have offered more for Caruso. He’s not a star, but there are plenty of teams that don’t need more stars and prefer players great in their roles to fill out their team.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You are giving the Bulls way too much credit.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Agreed. It would have been better for the Bulls if Giddey was locked into his current deal longer is what I was thinking.
mr. furley
Footballguy
that seems low for Monk when guys who barely play are getting double digit millions per year
mr. furley
Footballguy
Lebron had one good season. he's not even top 500 in the 2000s.
nirad3
Footballguy
Totes disagree. Reaves is by far the more complete player.
the moops
Footballguy
It was only Giddey. No 1st round pick was included.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
"No one knows what it means, but it's provocative. It gets the people going!"
Major
Footballguy
Agreed. I see him more of a Jrue/White type piece to OKC. A glue guy who will do the dirty work to compliment Shae and Co.
identikit
Footballguy
Shooting luck (good for OKC, bad for Chi); a net plus for OKC
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
Reaves is way to hot and cold. And doesn’t have the defense and intensity that Caruso has. When he’s on, his offense is far superior. When…
msudaisy26
Footballguy
He is a welfare version of Jrue and cheap version of White.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
Not sure why you are including 1st rounder in there, as the deal was only for giddey. I don’t know that anyone is thinking that Caruso gives them a championship. I would concede that while he is a valuable player for okc to get, he’s not exactly what the totally NEED and I do think that Caruso’s value contract has created a little bit of a halo effect on his ability (aka the Jae crowder effect), but he is a guy who can clearly start and close games in the playoffs. Okc got him for a guy with several glaring weaknesses that really hurt them in the playoffs and is about to have to get a big raise (or be let go). To get Caruso by giving up someone you didn’t care about and probably wanted to move anyway seems like a great move.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
I think Nate Duncan jokingly implied that maybe this is karnisovas’s way of tanking without looking like he’s tanking to ownership, who would never allow that…
scoobus
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
I think the best part of that trade for OKC is if Caruso can take all of Dort's shots and Dort can take all of Giddey's shots then it a double win for OKC.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Not surprisingly, the national sports media, from what I can tell, mostly ignored this story, which seems credible, but that is no surprise. Far too many people are dug in on Jordan being the GOAT for them to now admit that a fraction of his legacy might have been fabricated (yes, he was still incredible, even with this stat goosing).This Tom Haberstroh article was interesting to me. He dug into Jordan’s 1988 DPOY season and saw some crazy home/road splits in his defensive stats. There was even a game where Jordan had more steals than the other team had turnovers.
There was some serious home-cooked stat padding back in the 80s-90s. The Grizzlies stat guy must have used that as inspiration for the JJJ season.
A closer look at Michael Jordan's 1988 DPOY award raises questions about its validity. Has LeBron James been chasing a ghost?
New research reveals Jordan's Defensive Player of the Year season likely included home-biased stats.
LeBron’s stat guys would never.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
As a fan of a team who is going to be competing with OKC in the Western Conference this trade blows, and I'll try to explain in case anyone in here doesn't understand, which doesn't seem possible with the great minds who regularly post in here.
OKC's offense is predicated on having shooters all over floor. Giddey obviously doesn't fit that mold, which is good for other WC teams who may play them in the playoffs, because you can sag off him with your rim protector (Gobert) or hide a weaker defender on him (Luka) and he probably won't hurt you - at least not consistenly. Caruso is a better shooter than Giddey - this should be fairly self-evident - so it becomes much harder to defend them. OKC now has a top 8 that all shoot over 35.7% from 3, and the two worst shooters are SGA and Chet whom you can't exactly ignore. They are going to be even more difficult to defend in the playoffs next year.
And that doesn't even touch on the defensive upgrade. That spot goes from a parking cone to one of the best, if not the best, perimeter defenders in the league. This is a huge upgrade for them, and I'm stunned that anyone doesn't see it. And they made that upgrade by getting rid of a guy who didn't fit their team philosphy, with off the court questions, who is up for a big raise in a year. Just a fantastic trade and stupefying that Chicago didn't get more for him considering their were rumors of multiple firsts possibly in play from other teams. Not getting, at a minimum, two second round picks from a team who has like, a million, is criminal.
OKC maybe takes a little ding in terms of secondary play-making, but Chet, Cason Wallace, and Jalen Williams will all be a year older and better. Plus they have the #12 pick this year.
This sucks.
And I don't know what Chicago is doing.
OKC's offense is predicated on having shooters all over floor. Giddey obviously doesn't fit that mold, which is good for other WC teams who may play them in the playoffs, because you can sag off him with your rim protector (Gobert) or hide a weaker defender on him (Luka) and he probably won't hurt you - at least not consistenly. Caruso is a better shooter than Giddey - this should be fairly self-evident - so it becomes much harder to defend them. OKC now has a top 8 that all shoot over 35.7% from 3, and the two worst shooters are SGA and Chet whom you can't exactly ignore. They are going to be even more difficult to defend in the playoffs next year.
And that doesn't even touch on the defensive upgrade. That spot goes from a parking cone to one of the best, if not the best, perimeter defenders in the league. This is a huge upgrade for them, and I'm stunned that anyone doesn't see it. And they made that upgrade by getting rid of a guy who didn't fit their team philosphy, with off the court questions, who is up for a big raise in a year. Just a fantastic trade and stupefying that Chicago didn't get more for him considering their were rumors of multiple firsts possibly in play from other teams. Not getting, at a minimum, two second round picks from a team who has like, a million, is criminal.
OKC maybe takes a little ding in terms of secondary play-making, but Chet, Cason Wallace, and Jalen Williams will all be a year older and better. Plus they have the #12 pick this year.
This sucks.
And I don't know what Chicago is doing.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
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