2024 Las Vegas Raiders thread - who the heck is this team? (3 Viewers)

[Chadstroma]

Again, I want Getsy out but the biggest disappointment so far is definitely on the defensive side of the ball.

I think you are missing context with the stats you noted to preface this sentiment, namely...

- Injuries to key defenders, especially along the DLine - particularly to Koonce and Crosby;

- The mental/emotional debilitation associated with watching your offense fail for 11/12 quarters to open this season, after watching them suck all off/preseason. Hope is a powerful motivator and lack thereof is devastating.

The injuries are a factor. I don't think hope/motivation should have been a problem coming in to the game on Sunday though after the big fourth quarter comeback the week before. The Panthers took the opening kickoff and marched right down the field for a TD. After the offense went on a 97 yard drive to tie the game 7-7 the Panthers went right down the field again on the next possession to go up 14-7. The D got steamrolled pretty much from start to finish and they bear more of the responsibility for the loss on Sunday. That being said, the offense was bad too and I can't disagree with them being criticized heavily as well.

Defense played like crap against Carolina. No doubt. Maxx is heart and soul. Save for a few gutty snaps when he seemed to elevate out of sheer will, he looked pretty hoveled and spent more time on the sideline than I can remember him doing in any game since his rookie year. I have heard ankle and knee, so unsure which it is, but it very clearly bothered him. One guy shouldn't make that much of a difference, but this isn't just any guy.

No Koonce.... Crosby and Wilkins banged up (apparently Crosby pretty badly) with Wilson also banged up (though less of a concern but when you are already down one starting DE and the other is hobbled, it matters). Deablo out. Then lost Epps in game. That is a lot of key parts to the defense that were not there or not all there.

Not buying it.

176 rush yards to the Chargers (316 total), 151 to the Ravens (383 total).

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Okay, that's not entirely fair. The running game on offense has been just as big of a disappointment.

Not buying what? Are you saying Koonce played and Crosby and Wilkins are healthy? Or you telling me that all of that doesn't matter? I think either position would be hard to defend but I am all ears.

The defense has shown, even without Koonce, that it was legit. But any defense that has it's two best players hobbled, arguably it's third best player out, a starting LB and an important Safety would struggle in most situations.

 

[Chaka]

Again, I want Getsy out but the biggest disappointment so far is definitely on the defensive side of the ball.

I think you are missing context with the stats you noted to preface this sentiment, namely...

- Injuries to key defenders, especially along the DLine - particularly to Koonce and Crosby;

- The mental/emotional debilitation associated with watching your offense fail for 11/12 quarters to open this season, after watching them suck all off/preseason. Hope is a powerful motivator and lack thereof is devastating.

The injuries are a factor. I don't think hope/motivation should have been a problem coming in to the game on Sunday though after the big fourth quarter comeback the week before. The Panthers took the opening kickoff and marched right down the field for a TD. After the offense went on a 97 yard drive to tie the game 7-7 the Panthers went right down the field again on the next possession to go up 14-7. The D got steamrolled pretty much from start to finish and they bear more of the responsibility for the loss on Sunday. That being said, the offense was bad too and I can't disagree with them being criticized heavily as well.

Defense played like crap against Carolina. No doubt. Maxx is heart and soul. Save for a few gutty snaps when he seemed to elevate out of sheer will, he looked pretty hoveled and spent more time on the sideline than I can remember him doing in any game since his rookie year. I have heard ankle and knee, so unsure which it is, but it very clearly bothered him. One guy shouldn't make that much of a difference, but this isn't just any guy.

No Koonce.... Crosby and Wilkins banged up (apparently Crosby pretty badly) with Wilson also banged up (though less of a concern but when you are already down one starting DE and the other is hobbled, it matters). Deablo out. Then lost Epps in game. That is a lot of key parts to the defense that were not there or not all there.

Not buying it.

176 rush yards to the Chargers (316 total), 151 to the Ravens (383 total).

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Okay, that's not entirely fair. The running game on offense has been just as big of a disappointment.

Not buying what? Are you saying Koonce played and Crosby and Wilkins are healthy? Or you telling me that all of that doesn't matter? I think either position would be hard to defend but I am all ears.

The defense has shown, even without Koonce, that it was legit. But any defense that has it's two best players hobbled, arguably it's third best player out, a starting LB and an important Safety would struggle in most situations.

I'm saying that I don't buy the injury excuse. And it isn't hard to defend in the least. They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy. Are you telling me that Koonce is some kind of lynchpin that drives the defense?

*the were probably terrible in passing defense too but it doesn't get tested as much because teams can seemingly run at will on them.

The Panthers game had a lot of injuries to deal, sure with but let's try to remember the Panthers were far and away the worst team in the NFL coming into that game. Andy Dalton isn't some kind of force to be reckoned with; he's competent, that's it. And the Raiders, injured or otherwise got absolutely steamrolled. The Panthers went from already being on the clock in 2025 to the Greatest Show on Turf 2.0. It was an epic failure by AP, Patrick Graham and everyone on the defensive side of the ball. Injuries or not.

 

[ICON211]

Again, I want Getsy out but the biggest disappointment so far is definitely on the defensive side of the ball.

I think you are missing context with the stats you noted to preface this sentiment, namely...

- Injuries to key defenders, especially along the DLine - particularly to Koonce and Crosby;

- The mental/emotional debilitation associated with watching your offense fail for 11/12 quarters to open this season, after watching them suck all off/preseason. Hope is a powerful motivator and lack thereof is devastating.

The injuries are a factor. I don't think hope/motivation should have been a problem coming in to the game on Sunday though after the big fourth quarter comeback the week before. The Panthers took the opening kickoff and marched right down the field for a TD. After the offense went on a 97 yard drive to tie the game 7-7 the Panthers went right down the field again on the next possession to go up 14-7. The D got steamrolled pretty much from start to finish and they bear more of the responsibility for the loss on Sunday. That being said, the offense was bad too and I can't disagree with them being criticized heavily as well.

Defense played like crap against Carolina. No doubt. Maxx is heart and soul. Save for a few gutty snaps when he seemed to elevate out of sheer will, he looked pretty hoveled and spent more time on the sideline than I can remember him doing in any game since his rookie year. I have heard ankle and knee, so unsure which it is, but it very clearly bothered him. One guy shouldn't make that much of a difference, but this isn't just any guy.

No Koonce.... Crosby and Wilkins banged up (apparently Crosby pretty badly) with Wilson also banged up (though less of a concern but when you are already down one starting DE and the other is hobbled, it matters). Deablo out. Then lost Epps in game. That is a lot of key parts to the defense that were not there or not all there.

Not buying it.

176 rush yards to the Chargers (316 total), 151 to the Ravens (383 total).

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Okay, that's not entirely fair. The running game on offense has been just as big of a disappointment.

Not buying what? Are you saying Koonce played and Crosby and Wilkins are healthy? Or you telling me that all of that doesn't matter? I think either position would be hard to defend but I am all ears.

The defense has shown, even without Koonce, that it was legit. But any defense that has it's two best players hobbled, arguably it's third best player out, a starting LB and an important Safety would struggle in most situations.

Wilkins was questionable, but played. Max was definitely limited. Epps did not get hurt till the end of the third quarter after the game was already over. Injuries matter to an extent, but not to the point of being absolutely dominated by the Carolina Panthers. Every team has injuries, but does not completely fall apart and get embarrassed. The Vikings were missing two of their best defenders, Turner and Pace, and were playing the Texans and they didn't look like a complete mess.

 

[Chaka]

I worry Chad has Stockholm Syndrome.

We're here for you brother.

 

[LawFitz]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

Ultimately, though, Maxx's high-ankle isn't getting better anytime soon, so the D is effed for a while ahead. And AP doesn't seem to have any answers so far in terms of giving other players playing time who might do a better job - let's play the rookies and AOC at this point to see if they might be better system fits. You know who might be a ZBS RB? Our white lightning homeless man's CMC, who hasn't sniffed the active-roster yet on gameday. You know who might be way better than Diablo? Amari Gainer. Let's hope JPJ and Glaze can make a difference on the OL. At this point, you gotta make some changes or you risk losing the lockerroom IMO. 1-3 isn't a foregone conclusion - the Browns are just as, if not more dysfunctional right now.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I worry Chad has Stockholm Syndrome.

We're here for you brother.

It’s the Carr factor. We love you Chad. It’s going to be ok

 

[Chaka]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

I don't want to seem contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but I am going to push back a little. It's not just relative to expectations (that's definitely a big part of the perception), it's relative to what happened last year under AP too.

On offense the running game is objectively terrible, worst in the league by a country mile (I'm told those have more calories than urban miles) but the passing game is objectively better than last year (by 46 yards per game). The total difference in points is 19-23, yards 296-308 and ToP 28:48-28:34.

The defense OTOH is categorically worse this year giving up 54 more yards on the ground per game (153-99) and the same number of passing yards (226).

As far as digging into the specifics of the run defense. I know you understand the flawed logic when people say "Well if you take away his longest run he only averaged blahblahblah" and that applies just as much to team defense. They happened, therefore they count. And we have no reason to believe they won't continue to happen (see Hubbard, Chubba). As far as Diablo & Moehrig are concerned, they're still on the team and don't appear to be getting benched anytime soon. Signing Wilkins was supposed to help free guys like that up to make plays.

Again, I think this team ekes out 6-8 wins just like we all expected. I kind of expect them to win this week, although not with the same confidence I thought they were going to lose to the Panthers.

Wash/Suck/Repeat

Apologies to all for being the loudest Negative Nellie in here. You all know I'm not trolling, I'm suffering right along with everyone else in here.

 

[Chaka]

As far as "seeing growth and development" I ask; relative to what? IMO anything that potentially leads to keeping the current coaching staff on board is a failure.

I appreciate that Mark Davis hires football people and doesn't interfere in their process of developing a team. I sucks that he has made bad decisions in who to hire (I'm still on the fence about Gruden) but it's better than having a Jerry Jones, David Tepper type upstairs. The good news is I appreciate that Mark Davis is quick to recognize when he has made a mistake (Josh Daniels) and correct it. I hope he is just as proactive this offseason and fires the entire staff plus Telesco and throws everything at Ben Johnson and whoever the top pro player personnel guy in Detroit is. Let's be real, signing AP as HC was an attempt to "make up" for letting Rich Bisacia go.

P.S. How crazy is it that the Raiders are now envious of the Lions? What effing Bizzaro world are we living in?

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

I don't want to seem contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but I am going to push back a little. It's not just relative to expectations (that's definitely a big part of the perception), it's relative to what happened last year under AP too.

On offense the running game is objectively terrible, worst in the league by a country mile (I'm told those have more calories than urban miles) but the passing game is objectively better than last year (by 46 yards per game). The total difference in points is 19-23, yards 296-308 and ToP 28:48-28:34.

The defense OTOH is categorically worse this year giving up 54 more yards on the ground per game (153-99) and the same number of passing yards (226).

As far as digging into the specifics of the run defense. I know you understand the flawed logic when people say "Well if you take away his longest run he only averaged blahblahblah" and that applies just as much to team defense. They happened, therefore they count. And we have no reason to believe they won't continue to happen (see Hubbard, Chubba). As far as Diablo & Moehrig are concerned, they're still on the team and don't appear to be getting benched anytime soon. Signing Wilkins was supposed to help free guys like that up to make plays.

Again, I think this team ekes out 6-8 wins just like we all expected. I kind of expect them to win this week, although not with the same confidence I thought they were going to lose to the Panthers.

Wash/Suck/Repeat

Apologies to all for being the loudest Negative Nellie in here. You all know I'm not trolling, I'm suffering right along with everyone else in here.

I’m usually the one not drinking the cool aid. You’re correct. Week one the d was firing on all cylinders and played really well. The last 2 weeks have not been good. Last week was HORRIBLE. I had them at 5-6 wins. Sounds about right.

 

[LawFitz]

More I think about it, the more I think they should look into trading Minch to Miami, who would probably give up a 4th-5th rounder for the guy right now to try to save their season. Take the draft pick, plus the $15 MM in 2025 cap savings - and then be ruthless with giving young guys playing time this season over dudes like Moerig and Diablo who are still blowing wind after four years and will be looking for new contracts next season. Chris Smith and Trey Taylor could use some run IMO to see what they have - Pola Mao should have been in before the Epps injury... He flashed better play to end last season than Moerig and Epps. Let the young guys have at it already, now that we know for sure the odds of making the playoffs this season are virtually zero.

 

[Chadstroma]

Nobody likes any of you.

 

[Chaka]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

I don't want to seem contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but I am going to push back a little. It's not just relative to expectations (that's definitely a big part of the perception), it's relative to what happened last year under AP too.

On offense the running game is objectively terrible, worst in the league by a country mile (I'm told those have more calories than urban miles) but the passing game is objectively better than last year (by 46 yards per game). The total difference in points is 19-23, yards 296-308 and ToP 28:48-28:34.

The defense OTOH is categorically worse this year giving up 54 more yards on the ground per game (153-99) and the same number of passing yards (226).

As far as digging into the specifics of the run defense. I know you understand the flawed logic when people say "Well if you take away his longest run he only averaged blahblahblah" and that applies just as much to team defense. They happened, therefore they count. And we have no reason to believe they won't continue to happen (see Hubbard, Chubba). As far as Diablo & Moehrig are concerned, they're still on the team and don't appear to be getting benched anytime soon. Signing Wilkins was supposed to help free guys like that up to make plays.

Again, I think this team ekes out 6-8 wins just like we all expected. I kind of expect them to win this week, although not with the same confidence I thought they were going to lose to the Panthers.

Wash/Suck/Repeat

Apologies to all for being the loudest Negative Nellie in here. You all know I'm not trolling, I'm suffering right along with everyone else in here.

I’m usually the one not drinking the cool aid. You’re correct. Week one the d was firing on all cylinders and played really well. The last 2 weeks have not been good. Last week was HORRIBLE. I had them at 5-6 wins. Sounds about right.

But, did the defense play really well in week one? They gave up 176 yards on the ground.

 

[Chaka]

Nobody likes any of you.

You sound like my wife on draft day.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

@Chaka the problem with a regime change, is that the current batch will get 18 months or so before a change is made. I say fire getsy now and see what happens. The run game scheme NEEDS to change.

I like @LawFitz idea of trading the festival king if Mia will give up anything for him.

 

[LawFitz]

Let's be real, signing AP as HC was an attempt to "make up" for letting Rich Bisacia go.

Big AP fan, and hoping he figures a way to right this ship, but you are spot on here. Echoes of passing on Jalen Carter due to the Ruggs PTSD (which BTW, Carter's personality flaws are indeed showing up in Philly - just imagine how bad that would be in Vegas, so that's looking more and more like a bullet dodged than an opportunity missed). Still, the point stands... Previous unrelated situations shouldn't factor in future decisions to this degree - if Harbaugh was the best candidate (he was IMO), he should have been explored and there have been indications the Raiders didn't even contact the guy.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

I don't want to seem contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but I am going to push back a little. It's not just relative to expectations (that's definitely a big part of the perception), it's relative to what happened last year under AP too.

On offense the running game is objectively terrible, worst in the league by a country mile (I'm told those have more calories than urban miles) but the passing game is objectively better than last year (by 46 yards per game). The total difference in points is 19-23, yards 296-308 and ToP 28:48-28:34.

The defense OTOH is categorically worse this year giving up 54 more yards on the ground per game (153-99) and the same number of passing yards (226).

As far as digging into the specifics of the run defense. I know you understand the flawed logic when people say "Well if you take away his longest run he only averaged blahblahblah" and that applies just as much to team defense. They happened, therefore they count. And we have no reason to believe they won't continue to happen (see Hubbard, Chubba). As far as Diablo & Moehrig are concerned, they're still on the team and don't appear to be getting benched anytime soon. Signing Wilkins was supposed to help free guys like that up to make plays.

Again, I think this team ekes out 6-8 wins just like we all expected. I kind of expect them to win this week, although not with the same confidence I thought they were going to lose to the Panthers.

Wash/Suck/Repeat

Apologies to all for being the loudest Negative Nellie in here. You all know I'm not trolling, I'm suffering right along with everyone else in here.

I’m usually the one not drinking the cool aid. You’re correct. Week one the d was firing on all cylinders and played really well. The last 2 weeks have not been good. Last week was HORRIBLE. I had them at 5-6 wins. Sounds about right.

But, did the defense play really well in week one? They gave up 176 yards on the ground.

They did for 3 quarters lolz 316 total yards. 4/15 on 3rd down. The aforementioned long runs killed them.

 

[ICON211]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

 

[Chaka]

The defense has been a bigger disappointment than the offense.

Relative to expectations, definitely. Overall tho, with the injury context, no way. This offense is dreadful - Getsy has ruined the OL, and I'm not seeing an easy fix.

They were objectively bad, certainly in the running game*, in weeks one and two when everyone was healthy.

Actually, if you dig deeper into the stats, save for a small handful of long runs that popped, the defense played fairly well in weeks 1 and 2 against two very good teams. And if you dig even deeper, you'll find that two players - Diablo and Moerig - were responsible for pretty much every run of those long-run breakdowns with badly missed assignments and/or tackles. Koonce's injury started the demise, Diablo/Moerig rookie-contract bonehead errors resurfaced, then Maxx got hurt.

I don't want to seem contrarian just for the sake of being contrarian but I am going to push back a little. It's not just relative to expectations (that's definitely a big part of the perception), it's relative to what happened last year under AP too.

On offense the running game is objectively terrible, worst in the league by a country mile (I'm told those have more calories than urban miles) but the passing game is objectively better than last year (by 46 yards per game). The total difference in points is 19-23, yards 296-308 and ToP 28:48-28:34.

The defense OTOH is categorically worse this year giving up 54 more yards on the ground per game (153-99) and the same number of passing yards (226).

As far as digging into the specifics of the run defense. I know you understand the flawed logic when people say "Well if you take away his longest run he only averaged blahblahblah" and that applies just as much to team defense. They happened, therefore they count. And we have no reason to believe they won't continue to happen (see Hubbard, Chubba). As far as Diablo & Moehrig are concerned, they're still on the team and don't appear to be getting benched anytime soon. Signing Wilkins was supposed to help free guys like that up to make plays.

Again, I think this team ekes out 6-8 wins just like we all expected. I kind of expect them to win this week, although not with the same confidence I thought they were going to lose to the Panthers.

Wash/Suck/Repeat

Apologies to all for being the loudest Negative Nellie in here. You all know I'm not trolling, I'm suffering right along with everyone else in here.

I’m usually the one not drinking the cool aid. You’re correct. Week one the d was firing on all cylinders and played really well. The last 2 weeks have not been good. Last week was HORRIBLE. I had them at 5-6 wins. Sounds about right.

But, did the defense play really well in week one? They gave up 176 yards on the ground.

They did for 3 quarters lolz 316 total yards. 4/15 on 3rd down. The aforementioned long runs killed them.

I am sure the Raiders would be contenders in the "3/4ths NFL"...on The OCHO!

Nah, probably not.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

I still curse whenever I see stupid lane kiffin. I said this then and still believe it, he should be sending 50% of all earnings to the Davis family.

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

I still curse whenever I see stupid lane kiffin. I said this then and still believe it, he should be sending 50% of all earnings to the Davis family.

FWIW Kiffin was an Al Davis hire.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

I still curse whenever I see stupid lane kiffin. I said this then and still believe it, he should be sending 50% of all earnings to the Davis family.

FWIW Kiffin was an Al Davis hire.

I’m aware. That’s why I said the Davis family. When Al was alive, the tithing was for him. I also suggested that sexual favors, should they be desired, should be on the table as well.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Gruden was an unmitigated disaster right from the jump. 10 years @ 100,000,000 dollars

Knock on wood if you’re with me.

 

[ICON211]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

 

[Chaka]

Since you have to dance with the one you brought:

Telesco first and second round draft picks:
2013: DJ Fluker (1st), Manti Te'o (2nd)
2014: Jason Verrett (1st), Jeremiah Attaochu (2nd)
2015: Melvin Gordon (1st), Denzel Perryman (2nd)
2016: Joey Bosa (1st), Hunter Henry (2nd)
2017: Mike Williams (1st), Forrest Lamp (2nd)
2018: Derwin James (1st), Uchenna Nwosu (2nd)
2019: Jerry Tillery (1st), Nasir Adderly (2nd)
2020: Justin Herbert (1st), Kenneth Murray (1st)
2021: Rashawn Slater (1st), Asante Samuel Jr. (2nd)
2022: Zion Johnson (1st),
2023: Quentin Johnson (1st), Tuli Tuipulotu (2nd)
2024: Brock Bowers (1st), Jackson Powers-Johnson (2nd)

I'll be honest, his early draft picks are not the unmitigated disaster I thought they would be.

Telesco team records:
2013: 9-7
2014: 9-7
2015: 4-12
2016: 5-11
2017: 9-7
2018: 12-4
2019: 5-11
2020: 7-9
2021: 9-8
2022: 10-7
2023: 5-12
2024: ???

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

I have a real problem with their draft picks and I put most of that on Gruden.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

IDK he went from 28th, 24th, 10th scoring offense in his first three seasons.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

IDK he went from 28th, 24th, 10th scoring offense in his first three seasons.

He was as bad as getsy with predictability. Jet sweep anyone?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Jet sweep anyone?

"You rang?" - Matt Canada

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Davante ruled out.

 

[Chaka]

Davante ruled out.

Maxx ruled out.

 

[Chaos34]

Davante ruled out.

Mayer and Maxx too and Wilkins is gimpy. Oof, I am starting to understand the pessimism in here. Go Bowers. I keep my trap shut with all the negativity about AP and Getsy, cuz I'm still believing AP is the guy for this team and still impressed with Getsy in Baltimore, but wth. Catch a break LV. Throw it to Brock 20 times.

 

[Chadstroma]

Davante ruled out.

Maxx ruled out.

I am not worried, I don't buy that injuries matter.

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

IDK he went from 28th, 24th, 10th scoring offense in his first three seasons.

He was as bad as getsy with predictability. Jet sweep anyone?

Okay. He was still putting points on the board.

They were putting up 26 points per game in 2021 when the email story broke before the Chicago game. Which would have been 10th again.

They scored 22 points per game after that point, which was good for 18th.

 

[Chaka]

Davante ruled out.

Maxx ruled out.

I am not worried, I don't buy that injuries matter.

Don't do that.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

IDK he went from 28th, 24th, 10th scoring offense in his first three seasons.

He was as bad as getsy with predictability. Jet sweep anyone?

Okay. He was still putting points on the board.

They were putting up 26 points per game in 2021 when the email story broke before the Chicago game. Which would have been 10th again.

They scored 22 points per game after that point, which was good for 18th.

My mind is made up. No amount of logic will change it. I NEVER wanted Gruden. It’s well documented.

 

[Ed Wood]

Silver linings for Adams and Crosby being out: For Adams, hopefully they elevate Tyreik McAllister from PS. The Raiders got Ruggs to be their Tyreek Hill. Maybe they got their own Tyreik magic in this dude. He's got some sizzle in his game, just what this moribund team needs. Also it's gotta mean a minimum of 8 targets for Bowers and hopefully 10 or more.
As for 98, he shouldn't have been out there last week. Glad they're now exercising some caution. Tyree Wilson apparently shone last week. Time to take another step (or three), big guy. With a depleted Cleveland offensive line, this is a great opportunity.
And one more casualty this week...Michael Mayer (personal). Hope it isn't anything more serious than him questioning his role on the team with the addition of Bowers. 4 catches for 21 yards probably wasn't exactly what he envisioned through three games. Better make that 15 targets for Bowers. ;-)

 

[Chaos34]

I like this Tre Tucker guy. Minshew does chuck it deep to him whether he should or not. I think I'll make some Minshew/Tucker / Minshew/Bowers stacks at
DraftKings. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Chaka]

I like AP, but he was basically hired because the team played better than under McDaniels (usually happens when a guy everyone hates is fired), the players like him, the Bisaccia situation, and he was a Raider fan when he was a kid. Not great reasons.

This was followed up by hiring a GM that was just fired by another team in the same division and OC that was a borderline disaster the year before and was fired.

Many (not all) of the hires at GM, HC, OC and DC over the last 20 years are guys that would not sniff the same position with any other team in the NFL, certainly not any well run team.

Things can't change till this changes.

It's difficult to judge entirely. I wasn't a fan of bringing in Gruden, and he and Mayock were objectively a disaster in scouting, but there were signs of maybe heading in the right direction at least. I can't fault Davis for so much going wrong away from the field.

I was so disappointed when Davis hired the guy, Telesco, that the Raiders essentially got fired. But, again, I much prefer an owner who hires football people and then lets them do their job over ones who meddle in the day-to-day business.

It would suck to clean house again but, you can't find the right guys if you don't get rid of the wrong ones.

Gruden was probably the best hire of the last 20 years, but that;s not saying much. At least the man knows how to coach offense. I didn't and still don't have a problem with that hire even though it didn't work out.

Gruden is a one trick pony and his offense was 20 years old and it showed.

IDK he went from 28th, 24th, 10th scoring offense in his first three seasons.

He was as bad as getsy with predictability. Jet sweep anyone?

Okay. He was still putting points on the board.

They were putting up 26 points per game in 2021 when the email story broke before the Chicago game. Which would have been 10th again.

They scored 22 points per game after that point, which was good for 18th.

My mind is made up. No amount of logic will change it. I NEVER wanted Gruden. It’s well documented.

Neither did I. Also we'll documented.

Just pointing out Gruden put together a top ten offense over a full season and a quarter before he was assassinated by Dan ###### ####### Snyder.

Didn't want Gruden but he, and the team by extension got screwed, royally.

 

[Chaka]

Hoping they're resting Davante because they're in trade talks.

 

[LawFitz]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

Why not braelon?

 

[Chaka]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

Hard pass on Reddick.

The Raiders don't need a 30 year old, disgruntled, underweight DE who hasn't been near a football field since mid January.

The Raiders need draft picks. As many as possible.

Besides they had a shot at him in 2022 and weren't interested. Apparently Graham's scheme does not favor 240 lb DEs... allegedly.

And by that I mean allegedly Patrick Graham actually has a defensive scheme.

 

[Chaka]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

Why not braelon?

Better return than Reddick.

 

[Chadstroma]

I am watching "Inside the NFL" and there was a clip of Patrick Mahomes.

My son is in the room (8 years old) and says to my wife "Patrick Mahomes sounds like that green frog guy."

 

[LawFitz]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

Why not braelon?

Better return than Reddick.

Agreed, but if I'm the Jets, Braelon's 1st rd rookie talent and 4th round contract is virtually untouachable. That combo is the holy grail for real NFL GMs and unless ARod has some serious pull, no way a late-career WR1 at $30 MM per is anywhere worth that. Fantasy football makes these deals a lot simpler than real football.

 

[Chaka]

Trade Devante to the Jets for Reddick. Trade Minch to the Dolphins for some cans of tuna. Trade Mayer to anyone who would offer something decent - would like to think, he'd garner a 3rd or 4th at worst.

Why not braelon?

Better return than Reddick.

Agreed, but if I'm the Jets, Braelon's 1st rd rookie talent and 4th round contract is virtually untouachable. That combo is the holy grail for real NFL GMs and unless ARod has some serious pull, no way a late-career WR1 at $30 MM per is anywhere worth that. Fantasy football makes these deals a lot simpler than real football.

That's why I'm all about draft picks. Allen is a fine talent, potentially, but RB isn't a high priority for the Raiders. QB & OL that's what the offense needs.

The defense...? Where to begin...

 

[ZADO]

This team needs top 5 picks

This team needs functional management. Instead, we will probably see Bill Bellycheck hired next offseason in Mork's next hail to Mary.

The problem with the Raiders is that the fanbase has no idea of what they want, other than it has to be a "Raider" of yore. While being a franchise that has only five double digit win season in the past 30 years. There is no such thing as a "Raider Mystique" anymore. It's been two generations since they won the Super Bowl. But come on, they have again only five double digit win seasons since dial up internet.

Would Raider fans chose to shed the old Raider mystique and brand for a new brand and team identity if they promised to be a new, refreshing franchise to the 4 decades of futility of the three prior decades of "Raider Yore" from 1960 to 1990? Just what is success to a Raider fan? The Raiders have only five season in the black in the past 30 seasons. This is a failed franchise. The only reason why it still exists is because people still buy into an inferior product, and reward bad CEO's and leadershiwp.

Edit: Bottom line is Raider fans need to force a sale of the team. Only way to do that is not buy into it anymore. Because they ain't going anywhere now, literally and figuratively.

sounds familiar, why are the niners still called the san francisco 49er’s? santa clara is not san francisco, the team and their fans are just as delusional as every other fan base who’s team hasn’t won a super bowl in 30 years

This isn't about the 49ers. Most people here since I have been on this forum know that 49er fans hate me more that Raider fans. Why? Because they are 49er fans.

Do you think you're hated in here?

I don't recall seeing you in this thread, or previous years, nearly enough to have an opinion about your views on the Raiders.

What are you kidding me? We went through a few days of I saying the Raiders should ditch Derak Carr years ago.

Did we? Okay.

I know you from the boards of course but that interaction didn't resonate enough to make it into my notebook. Sorry.

I first logged on here I think in 2006. I am just not chronically here as much anymore because Joe B amd FBG mods don't like me.

I cant imagine why...

Beat it little Drummer boy

 

[Chaka]

Come on now, let's all be nice.