2024 Miami Dolphins: Chop, Chop !! (4 Viewers)

[Ministry of Pain]

Tua vs Opponents that MISSED the Playoffs...

Record - 10-1
Comp Pct - 71.7
Pass YPG - 293
Yds per Pass 9.0
TD-Int 22-8
Passer Rtg 110.7


Tua vs Opponents that MADE the Playoffs

Record - 1-6
Comp Pct - 62.8
Pass YPG - 227
Yds per Pass - 6.6
TD-Int - 8-7
Passer Rtg - 80.8

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Tua in weather 46 degrees and colder...

0-6, never won a game in his NFL career
55% completions
6 TDs vs 8 Interceptions
Passer Rating only 69.8

 

[Big Nate]

Tua in weather 46 degrees and colder...

0-6, never won a game in his NFL career
55% completions
6 TDs vs 8 Interceptions
Passer Rating only 69.8

I think there is some merit to the cold weather games. Those are indeed tough on those who haven't played in them.

As for the record, I still say it is more of a team game. Not surprising its tougher to win vs good opponents. But to blame it all on Tua isn't fair.

 

[Gatorman]

Tua vs Opponents that MISSED the Playoffs...

Record - 10-1
Comp Pct - 71.7
Pass YPG - 293
Yds per Pass 9.0
TD-Int 22-8
Passer Rtg 110.7


Tua vs Opponents that MADE the Playoffs

Record - 1-6
Comp Pct - 62.8
Pass YPG - 227
Yds per Pass - 6.6
TD-Int - 8-7
Passer Rtg - 80.8

This a fair and unfair narrative, as is the cold weather one when it comes to QB.

Drew Brees was 3-7 in cold weather games in his career, and no one would say he sucked.

I can't get the answer for Justin Herbert, but a quick look says, at best he is 2-3.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Tua in weather 46 degrees and colder...

0-6, never won a game in his NFL career
55% completions
6 TDs vs 8 Interceptions
Passer Rating only 69.8

I think there is some merit to the cold weather games. Those are indeed tough on those who haven't played in them.

As for the record, I still say it is more of a team game. Not surprising its tougher to win vs good opponents. But to blame it all on Tua isn't fair.

Tua vs Opponents that MISSED the Playoffs...

Record - 10-1
Comp Pct - 71.7
Pass YPG - 293
Yds per Pass 9.0
TD-Int 22-8
Passer Rtg 110.7


Tua vs Opponents that MADE the Playoffs

Record - 1-6
Comp Pct - 62.8
Pass YPG - 227
Yds per Pass - 6.6
TD-Int - 8-7
Passer Rtg - 80.8

This a fair and unfair narrative, as is the cold weather one when it comes to QB.

Drew Brees was 3-7 in cold weather games in his career, and no one would say he sucked.

I can't get the answer for Justin Herbert, but a quick look says, at best he is 2-3.

-Both of you...I'm just reporting the facts, where did I say that Tua deserves all the blame?
You know I'm doing this because of the imminent extension that is likely to bankrupt the CAP in '24-'25 and beyond
I'm just showing that the guy doesn't really move the needle, both of you know that.
I understand there is no one on the roster currently that is better than Tua, 100% with you both on this.
There probably aren't more than 8-10 names in the NFL we would even think about trying to change Tua out for, so he's better than half and maybe two-thirds of all starting QBs

But the facts are the facts, it's one of the reasons I didn't answer back immediately, it doesn't change my POV or anything I posted.
Many in the National Media are saying that Tua should not be given a contract like what we saw last summer. They all have differing reasons as to their claims.

-Nothing changes, Miami needs help along their OL and their Front 7 on Defense especially DL
It would be awesome if 21-55 turned into 27-55-70 or something similar because Miami needs several more young prospects both sides of the line with what they lost off season
Almost HALF of their starting OL is no longer here and if you say Miami runs a 3-4 base Defense, they lost 66% of their starting DL, only Zach Sieler remains.

-Miami seems to have the skill position players to explode on any given Sunday...you want to maximize their chances of winning, they need a strong dominant OL
That's going to require more resources than what they currently have

 

[Gatorman]

-Miami seems to have the skill position players to explode on any given Sunday...you want to maximize their chances of winning, they need a strong dominant OL
That's going to require more resources than what they currently have

Barry is doing a pretty good job of convincing me that good center prospects are available in Round 2. Miami just reached out to another DE about a FA contract so maybe they are moving away from Edge as a draft need. Who knows (it may be smoke for all we know).

Bottom Line is we are not going to be able to upgrade QB to better than Tua. The extension will be what it will be (and it still has not happened is to me telling). Finally, when has a Ravens D been built from the DT spot? Seems like Ravens Defenses are built from the edge/LB positions.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

-Miami seems to have the skill position players to explode on any given Sunday...you want to maximize their chances of winning, they need a strong dominant OL
That's going to require more resources than what they currently have

Barry is doing a pretty good job of convincing me that good center prospects are available in Round 2. Miami just reached out to another DE about a FA contract so maybe they are moving away from Edge as a draft need. Who knows (it may be smoke for all we know).

Bottom Line is we are not going to be able to upgrade QB to better than Tua. The extension will be what it will be (and it still has not happened is to me telling). Finally, when has a Ravens D been built from the DT spot? Seems like Ravens Defenses are built from the edge/LB positions.

JPJ and Zack Frazier are both graded out in the 1st round, Frazier could slide into the 2nd but Miami would either need to trade down from 21 or up from 55
Ravens have had some sick DTs, not always the guys they draft but they are usually strong up the middle.
Siragusa back in the day but I agree with you that in the modern NFL you want good Edge/OLB and playmakers in the secondary.
I do feel Miami if healthy across the board will be strong in the Secondary, Edge/OLB, DEs, they are going to be short for a while at that spot.
I don't care for most of the Edge prospects in the 1st, one of the reasons I highlighted Payton Wilson, he might be projected as an ILB but he can play both, Miami isn't there in the front 7.
Wilson with the 1st pick and Kris Jenkins at DT in the 2nd would go a long way to rebuilding the defense but they still will need more.

MIami could also spend some of their resources on OL, if they are going to draft an IOL, might as well get the best in JPJ
I'm not that high on Frasier and after that you have Van Pran from Georgia, he's a better value IMHO and is discounted in the draft due to some injuries he has had to overcome in college
All signs point to him being fully recovered, if Miami could create a 3rd round pick this year, they might be able to get him.

-Miami drafted Cam Smith at #50 overall last year, and I'd love to see Cooper DeJean in a Miami uniform but there really isn't an open spot at the moment.
One of the things that will further hinder Smith's growth is just the fact he won't see the field much, Year 2 and his snap count will be low again IMO
The Dolphins have some immediate needs in their Front 6-7, other than Sieler we have a lot of open spots. The guys we signed at LB are not really upgrades over Baker, perhaps worse.

 

[Gatorman]

So, lets talk draft. Is there a position that you'd be annoyed if they drafted a player in the first 2 rounds?

I'd say RB/FB. Pretty much can make a case for almost any other position. Listed below in order of preference (least to most)

QB - OK, well then I guess Tua on the hot seat
WR - Ok, well, not a fan but this is a good class and Tyreek is expensive
TE - Ok, he better produce
CB - How about you develop one before you keep drafting the position
LB -He better be able to cover and rush the QB
Edge - See LB
S - I guess you need an inexpensive option if you are going to pay Holland
DT - Well, yeah there is a need for another Wilkins, but on a Rookie deal
OL - Don't care which "spot" on the line you are drafting for as long as they either "anchor" that spot or have the ability to play multiple spots.

That is all.

 

[Todem]

Tua in weather 46 degrees and colder...

0-6, never won a game in his NFL career
55% completions
6 TDs vs 8 Interceptions
Passer Rating only 69.8

I think there is some merit to the cold weather games. Those are indeed tough on those who haven't played in them.

As for the record, I still say it is more of a team game. Not surprising its tougher to win vs good opponents. But to blame it all on Tua isn't fair.

I don’t think he is........but at the same time.....he ain’t the guy that is gonna get us to the Super Bowl. And hey that’s our opinion.

If they extend him....then he is our guy for the foreseeable future....and I will root for him. It’s my Dolphins. I am a lifer.

But crap man......I feel I know the ending already to this story in the Tua era.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1st question I have with Miami at No 21 is who will be on the board when they select.

-I've started to push Newton ahead of Murphy at DT/DL, and again would note that Miami can likely find some beef along the DL in the 2nd and perhaps 3rd round if they can slide back and pick up an extra pick for this year.

-Cooper Dejean, if he slides to 21 and they pass on him I'm going to need to see my doctor right away

-For the OL, I hope Miami stays away from the Tackle Temptations as I am referring to them. Tyler Guyton from Oklahoma scares me, only 14 starts in his career and needs work.
If they do go OL in the 1st, I prefer Jackson Powers from Oregon and while Graham Barton played tackle for Duke, he's projected as a Guard, something like this was the back story for Hunt when Miami took him #37 overall 4 years ago. If not JPJ or Barton, then I like Zach Frazier more and more from West Virginia, believe he is a winner in both high school and collegiate wrestling, that just sounds like something you want in an IOL. All 3 of these guys have a fairly high football IQ rating when they've been tested

Some other names I can live with if Miami finds themselves turning 2 picks into 3+...Kiran Amegadjie and I've mentioned him before, played Tackle on the OL for Yale, late 2nd grade.
2nd/3rd Round-DT/DL...Braden Fiske, Kris Jenkins and T'Vondre Sweat who weighs like 350-375 lbs, total run stuffer and some off field jargon has him sliding.
2nd/3rd Round Edge...Jonah Eliss from Utah, kid had 12 sacks last year and is all over the place for when he might go. Cris Braswell from Alabama is a guy I like in the 2nd
IOL-Day 3...Zak Zinter, Guard from Michigan. Not ready to start Day 1 but could be a decent pick at say 158.

Linebackers...Edge Cooper from A&M and of course Wilson from NC State
I wouldn't cry if Miami were to slide around and make one of them a part of the equation, that Front 6-7 needs work and also is nursing major injuries at Edge

 

[SoBeDad]

-Cooper Dejean, if he slides to 21 and they pass on him I'm going to need to see my doctor right away

Miami likes Javon Bullard alot. He's listed as a safety but would play slot corner, he's very good in coverage. The DraftBuzz 10 experts have him going 47 to 69, throwing out the hi and low. Good chance he's there at 55. In the first round, I like Graham Barton who can also play multiple positions protecting Tua. Trade down from 1.21 would also be good. Jerzhan Newton could be available in a tradedown of a few slots.

 

[Gatorman]

Not sure if you saw the interview with Tyreek saying that McDaniel called him out after the KC playoff game saying that he needed to do more, and Reek agreed and relished the fact the coach called him out. Again, I think McDaniel is a solid hire for yers to come. Sure, there will be growing pains with any new Head Coach, but he seems to "get it".

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Feels like we need an OL discussion to bring us all together prior to the Draft, seems to be on most folks minds and for good reason.
-First of all, Miami did sign a free agent for the IOL, Aaron Brewer and his run blocking highlights are eye-opening, his weakness is more pass protection...that might be a problem.
6 sacks allowed and 34 QB pressures from his spot on the OL, last year it was Center. Year before he allowed 31 QB pressures and 4 sacks. He's no Connor Williams
Brewer started 15 games at LG in '22 and 17 at Center in '23, 5 at RG in '21, he was an UDFA in 2020 and just stuck to the practice squad until his number was called.

-Miami also has Robert Jones, signed a 1 yr deal to return for less than $2M, Lester Cotton is still on this team and only is costing about $1M and then you have Liam Eichenberg and he currently is costing $4M+ and would cost less than $1M to part ways with, he's fighting to make the team right now I would say, 42nd overall pick in '21.
Cotton and Jones are both UDFA, if either one of them could actually start at RG/LG, would be a huge lift for Miami and also allow them more freedom in the Draft

-I'm still not done discussing the IOL of this football team, we have a couple more names believe it or not. Isaiah Wynn was resigned a little while back very quietly. Wynn was the 18th overall pick in 2018, he's only 27 yrs old right now and was starting at LG, doing a solid job early last season and then he went down with an injury and was lost for the season IIRC...he's IN the MIX! And if that doesn't interest you, let me welcome Jack Driscoll, former 4th round pick by the Eagles and played all 4 of his rookie contract years in Philly, mostly a back up. But Miami did give him a signing bonus of $400k, close to $1M guaranteed, Driscoll might only be a back up but he also might be the reason we part ways with Liam before the season even starts.

So I just went over about 5 names to fill up those 3 spots along the IOL, I have faith that at least 1-2 of them can be played at a pretty high level for what we need on Offense.

-As for the 2 Tackle spots, they're spoken for with Armstead and AJax, if those 2 are standing upright, then you won't see Kendall Lamm ($2.5M) play much on his final year in the NFL.
Miami could surely use a better long term solution than Lamm but he filled in admirably last year and Miami's next Tackle will likely push Armstead to retirement or looking for a new team.

What does all this mean for the Draft? If they want to get some instant production, it would be wise to look long and hard at JPJ or Zach Frasier at Center although I imagine they could both start at either Guard position, and then Graham Barton from Duke - projects more as an inside force vs playing RT/LT
I also think it means they're not as desperate on the OL as some would think they are vs that Front 6-7 on Defense, I hear Weaver is not sleeping so well right now.

JPJ-Braswell, JPJ-Wilson(Dream), Frasier-Jenkins-3rd pick,
Dejean-Jenkins/Fiske, Dejean-Frasier, DeJean-Amegadjie
Newton-Amegadjie, Newton-Wilson, these are the kind of combos I am expecting at 21-55, something close to these

And keep an eye on Zak Zinter, starting RG for Michigan for like 4 years, he's pretty good IMHO. 4th-5th round type pick and can be used to plug things inside.
I do not see Miami going OL with both 21 and 55, that would be a terrible plan IMHO

Feedback appreciated
Cheers!

 

[SoBeDad]

I do not see Miami going OL with both 21 and 55, that would be a terrible plan IMHO

100% agree. We need 2 starters or a starter and a major contributor at 1.21 and 2.55. The most likely combos would be
(1) OL-Safety, OL-DL which would be JPJ/Barton - Bullard / Nubin / Fiske / Jenkins. Those oline are likely starting year 1, while the DBs and DL would be big rotational pieces.
Or
(2) DL-OL. Dline could be Newton, Chop, Darius. OL could be BeeBee (very good pass protector) or a small tradeup for Frazier. Cheaper to trade up for Frazier in round 2, than Byron Murphy or Latu in round 1.

If you think you can get a JPJ in a trade down in round 1, go for it and get a late 3rd round pick.

The Grier surprise: he falls in love with a WR like Coleman or Worthy who falls.

 

[SoBeDad]

Two recent drafts by the experts (ESPN, PFF) have Miami taking Amarius Mims in round 1 at 21. His agent, Drew Rosenhaus, says Mims will be long gone before Miami picks. I don't think he lasts past PIT but who knows. Great tape, especially pass blocking. He's quick for a big guy.

 

[SwampDawg]

I'd like to see them focus the first two picks on the interior DL and OL. Graham Barton and JPJ are both of interest as they can play C or G. DT whoever they have rated as best available when they pick Murphy, Newton? The mocks make it seem like a better chance of someone who can contribute at DT being there in the 2nd round then an OL. Regardless it isn't going to be a sexy pick(s), but they need to be solid picks.

@Ministry of Pain will be interesting to see what happens with the tampering charges against the Falcons and Eagles. Guess the Dolphins aren't the only ones. The Falcons seems like a no brainer from some of the statements Cousins made.

 

[Gatorman]

In my order of preference

I think Miami is going to take a tackle who can play Guard or Center this upcoming year and then become the relacement for Armstead in the future. The only way they pivot on that plan is if the guys they like go ahead of that or they decide to trade down. I think that not getting an O lineman before Saturday is malpractice, but I know they have some "backup" guys who are FA just in case.

Now, will they trade down in either the first or the second to gain a third is the question. The good news for this draft is Miami is not taking a QB so the logjam up at the top of the draft means better guys are going to push down the board. If a guy like Pennix or Nix is there at MIami's pick and a team gets desperate, will they trade down

The D line needs help bc of Wilkins leaving and the injuries to their studs. One of the two picks needs to be along the D line.

WR / LB / Safety that can cover the slot. Secondary issues as far as I am concerned, but there is a glut of amazing WRs in this draft and Miami needs a slot guy and a "plan" for Hill and Waddle as they Age and head to the next contract (respectively). LB/Safety to me better be able to cvover the TE or Slot guy beause we cannot do that.

TE - sigh. I think drafting a TE no matter how good they appear to be is like having a third nipple: IT SERVES NO PURPOSE

 

[=Smackdown=]

I think the pick @ 21will be either Amarius Mims, Graham Barton or Jared Verse.

Just please do not draft WR in the first - want nothing to do with Worthy who is Ginn 2.0

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think the pick @ 21will be either Amarius Mims, Graham Barton or Jared Verse.

Just please do not draft WR in the first - want nothing to do with Worthy who is Ginn 2.0

 

[TripleThreat]

Happy Draft day.
Grier has indicated he believes there are maybe 15 first round talents… and that he thinks that one or 2 will be available. Not the only person I’ve heard say the approximate 15.
McD has said his favorite position is DL and Edge and that he’d take one every year.

Fortunately Grier has for the most part patched the obvious holes in at least a serviceable fashion… meaning I think it’ll be BPA.

Who they draft will be in effect which position slides….

I have no idea who I want because I have no idea who’ll be there. I’d love Latu … but mainly I want someone who will start and or contribute right away. I understand and in agreement with taking chances on upside… but this go around with the teams window I want someone who puts in time on the field.

Mims and a couple others could have a higher ceiling but I’d rather a ready to play guy. Latu I believe does both…plays now with the desirable ceiling. If Mims can play guard now and replace Armstead later bonus. Barton plays and stays forever ….

Man I just don’t know… as always I’m cautiously optimistic

 

[TripleThreat]

Jevon Holland tweeted new jerseys in the way. Oo

 

[Todem]

Chop!!!! Coach em up.

Good pick.

 

[jamny]

Filled a need.

Go Phins!

 

[TripleThreat]

Chop top 4 edge.. comparisons to Cam Wake. If he’s Cam Wake. That’s a win.

 

[SoBeDad]

Chop top 4 edge.. comparisons to Cam Wake. If he’s Cam Wake. That’s a win.

Turned 21 in January.

>>NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein described Robinson as an “edge defender who offers the type of elite athleticism we’ve seen from players like Micah Parsons and Myles Garrett. Robinson might not be as fast as Parsons, but he’s close. He’s ultra-twitchy with the explosiveness to get on top of blockers and overwhelm them in an instant.<<

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article287351025.html#storylink=cpy

 

[=Smackdown=]

Wanted Barton. Happy it’s not Worthy. Edge was a need.

They must have an OL in mind at 55 - I hope.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Not a good pick for this team, they really needed to get stronger on the IOL and IDL, neither of those were addressed tonight
That's OK, Miami is on pause as the beat writers said when free agency started and we saw real talent leave this team for big paydays
To think Chop is the next Came Wake...that guy came from Canada, think Bill Parcells had a big hand in that acquisition and Cam might have been the best Edge rusher Miami ever had after Jason Taylor. He also was like 26 years old at least when Miami got him from the CFL.

Chop won't rack up 6 sacks as a rookie, he'll look lost most of the time, this is not an IMPACT Edge rookie sensation IMHO
Miami had a chance to get better either on the OL/DL or the secondary was WIDE OPEN with all that talent on Offense taken the first 13-14 picks, incredibly short sighted to make Chop the 5th-6th defensive player off the board when other names were sitting there for the taking.

I'm surprised to see any Miami fans slapping high 5s tonight when his name was called

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Not a good pick for this team, they really needed to get stronger on the IOL and IDL, neither of those were addressed tonight
That's OK, Miami is on pause as the beat writers said when free agency started and we saw real talent leave this team for big paydays
To think Chop is the next Came Wake...that guy came from Canada, think Bill Parcells had a big hand in that acquisition and Cam might have been the best Edge rusher Miami ever had after Jason Taylor. He also was like 26 years old at least when Miami got him from the CFL.

Chop won't rack up 6 sacks as a rookie, he'll look lost most of the time, this is not an IMPACT Edge rookie sensation IMHO
Miami had a chance to get better either on the OL/DL or the secondary was WIDE OPEN with all that talent on Offense taken the first 13-14 picks, incredibly short sighted to make Chop the 5th-6th defensive player off the board when other names were sitting there for the taking.

I'm surprised to see any Miami fans slapping high 5s tonight when his name was called

He is way more athletic than Cam. He will create pressure as a rookie, but as he develops his moves a bit more he will be an elite pass rusher.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Chubb is a $16M+ cap hit this year
Phillips is another $4M-$5M on his 4th year rookie contract, he will want an extension

Both are coming off pretty rough injuries
Phillips tore his achilles in New York, might not ever be the same
Both Phillips and Chubb had 1st round picks invested in them, Miami traded for Chubb

Miami spent $9M on a washed out Shaq Barrett
Miami just invested another 1st round pick for an Edge rusher...almost seems cheaper to have kept AVG but they opted not to do that

 

[TripleThreat]

Chubb is a $16M+ cap hit this year
Phillips is another $4M-$5M on his 4th year rookie contract, he will want an extension

Both are coming off pretty rough injuries
Phillips tore his achilles in New York, might not ever be the same
Both Phillips and Chubb had 1st round picks invested in them, Miami traded for Chubb

Miami spent $9M on a washed out Shaq Barrett
Miami just invested another 1st round pick for an Edge rusher...almost seems cheaper to have kept AVG but they opted not to do that

The first two parts of this combined with the fact the MMcD edge quote is telling.

I like the pick… certainly can’t be mad at it. Top 4 edge… I wouldn’t have been disappointed with Barton but looking back we didn’t have a lot of faith in the OL last year and the new coaching proved us all wrong. Soo

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Chubb is a $16M+ cap hit this year
Phillips is another $4M-$5M on his 4th year rookie contract, he will want an extension

Both are coming off pretty rough injuries
Phillips tore his achilles in New York, might not ever be the same
Both Phillips and Chubb had 1st round picks invested in them, Miami traded for Chubb

Miami spent $9M on a washed out Shaq Barrett
Miami just invested another 1st round pick for an Edge rusher...almost seems cheaper to have kept AVG but they opted not to do that

The first two parts of this combined with the fact the MMcD edge quote is telling.

I like the pick… certainly can’t be mad at it. Top 4 edge… I wouldn’t have been disappointed with Barton but looking back we didn’t have a lot of faith in the OL last year and the new coaching proved us all wrong. Soo

I went deep dive on the OL if you scroll up, did it before the Draft so everyone would be familiar with the names, honestly I'm not surprised Miami opted to pass on the OL available.
Where is a rookie OL going to start right now? They can't start ahead of AJ or Armstead at RT/LT
They signed Brewer to play Center and they have at least 4-5 guys trying to start at RG or LG including Liam Eichenberg on his last year of his rookie deal, his career hangs in the balance
Cotton, Jones and Wynn are all coming back and Kendall Lamm was resigned to back up the Tackles

 

[SoBeDad]

From PFF, Chop has an elite quick pressure rate. I think that means he initially beats his man, but not necessarily is able to pressure the QB or make a tackle. Bosa and Latu territory. I've seen alot of that in Phillips. Hopefully, he can develop his technique more and pressure opposing QBs, sooner since we need edge pressure early in the season before Phillips and Chubb return. The BAL defensive approach is to rotate lots of players and bring more than 4 to the LOS, keeping the oline guessing about who will blitz and who will drop. Chop is young, 21 in January, and they say he has a motor.

>>Robinson’s high-end pass-rush metrics propel him near the top of this model, putting him among the elite players at the position, with an argument to be made for him as a first-round pick. He is currently projected to go in the early part of the second round, but with his 97th percentile score, he would be the only edge defender who scored 94th percentile and above to not go in the first round.

Robinson’s ability to win with explosiveness and a quick first step make him a standout in the PFF grading system as his high-quality/quick wins are always going to grade better than second-effort or later wins. This is highlighted in Robinson’s greatest strength — quick pressure rate. He scored in the 98th percentile in this metric, just behind Nick Bosa and standout Michigan pass rusher Josh Uche, and just ahead of Chase Young and a top prospect in this year’s class, Laiatu Latu.<<

Fantasy Football: Analytical spotlight on the top 2024 rookie edge defenders | NFL Draft | PFF

Jon Macri puts an analytical spotlight on the top 2024 rookie edge defenders.

www.pff.com

 

[Ministry of Pain]

From PFF, Chop has an elite quick pressure rate. I think that means he initially beats his man, but not necessarily is able to pressure the QB or make a tackle. Bosa and Latu territory. I've seen alot of that in Phillips. Hopefully, he can develop his technique more and pressure opposing QBs, sooner since we need edge pressure early in the season before Phillips and Chubb return. The BAL defensive approach is to rotate lots of players and bring more than 4 to the LOS, keeping the oline guessing about who will blitz and who will drop. Chop is young, 21 in January, and they say he has a motor.

>>Robinson’s high-end pass-rush metrics propel him near the top of this model, putting him among the elite players at the position, with an argument to be made for him as a first-round pick. He is currently projected to go in the early part of the second round, but with his 97th percentile score, he would be the only edge defender who scored 94th percentile and above to not go in the first round.

Robinson’s ability to win with explosiveness and a quick first step make him a standout in the PFF grading system as his high-quality/quick wins are always going to grade better than second-effort or later wins. This is highlighted in Robinson’s greatest strength — quick pressure rate. He scored in the 98th percentile in this metric, just behind Nick Bosa and standout Michigan pass rusher Josh Uche, and just ahead of Chase Young and a top prospect in this year’s class, Laiatu Latu.<<

Fantasy Football: Analytical spotlight on the top 2024 rookie edge defenders | NFL Draft | PFF

Jon Macri puts an analytical spotlight on the top 2024 rookie edge defenders.

www.pff.com

Chop ranked 40th overall - PFF Top 300
Miami took him 21st and made him the 5th player taken on Defense off the board

 

[Desert_Power]

Chris Grier? Chris Grier never changes

 

[SoBeDad]

Chop ranked 40th overall - PFF Top 300
Miami took him 21st and made him the 5th player taken on Defense off the board

Like I mentioned above, Chop had one of the widest ranges of rankings. Jeff Legwold of ESPN had him ranked12th. CBS Sports 22nd. Jeremiah 23rd. Granted, that ranking includes potential based on his speed and "volcanic" first step. PFF had one of the lowest rankings on Chop.

Grier said they explored tradedowns but didn't like what treams offered. If they had picked BPA, it would've been Quinyon Mitchell. Which makes sense, as Ramsey ages, he'll be 30 in October, they could move him to safety and have Quinyon as a near lock down CB for years. One of your favorites, Cooper DeJean, also had a wide range of rankings, with PFF ranking him #8. I wonder how well PFF has done ranking drafted over the years.

 

[SwampDawg]

I like the pick. Watch a lot of Penn State games and this kid can play. You don't wear the #11 as a LB in Happy Valley unless you are special. Given the injuries at the position best case scenario he allows us to move on from Chubb after this season and re-sign Phillips if he comes back fully. If Phillips just isn't the same then you have another legit talent in place if you move on.

Hey @Ministry of Pain the Falcons and Arthur Blank are making Steven Ross look like owner of the year. I mean you tamper to bring in Cousins and give him $100 million guaranteed which should likely end up costing you next years first round pick. Then you reach for a 24 year old QB instead of getting someone that can contribute now. So basically you traded next years 1st round pick to get Cousins assuming the tampering, which seems like a given, and then you draft a guy this you who likely won't play until he is 27. I felt the Patriots reached for Maye (I'm not impressed by him) but this one takes the cake.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I like the pick. Watch a lot of Penn State games and this kid can play. You don't wear the #11 as a LB in Happy Valley unless you are special. Given the injuries at the position best case scenario he allows us to move on from Chubb after this season and re-sign Phillips if he comes back fully. If Phillips just isn't the same then you have another legit talent in place if you move on.

Hey @Ministry of Pain the Falcons and Arthur Blank are making Steven Ross look like owner of the year. I mean you tamper to bring in Cousins and give him $100 million guaranteed which should likely end up costing you next years first round pick. Then you reach for a 24 year old QB instead of getting someone that can contribute now. So basically you traded next years 1st round pick to get Cousins assuming the tampering, which seems like a given, and then you draft a guy this you who likely won't play until he is 27. I felt the Patriots reached for Maye (I'm not impressed by him) but this one takes the cake.

I thought the Arthur Blank joke was hilarious....you know I had Penix on a short list of guys I hoped Miami might surprise the media and take

Defensive Tackle - Big names still on the board, Newton is a total steal at this point. You also have Fiske, Kris Jenkins who I like a lot
Cooper Dejean is silly good here in the 2nd, doubt he is going to fall to 55, not sure Miami would even take him when they went for Chop over Cooper
I also like Sainristil from Michigan at Cornerback.
Wilson the LB from NC State still on the board.

I like Braswell at Edge as much or more than Chop and Braswell was a 2nd round projection, played on Bama.
Would Miami take another Edge rusher? Can you ever have enough of them?

OL - JPJ and Frazier are both still on the board, Miami could address an area of need
Depends on how you view a potential Wynn-Brewer-Jones or Wynn-Brewer-Eichenberg as the starting IOL

"Chop Chop" is also pretty damn funny

 

[jtd13]

Chop reminds me of the Ravens taking Oweh a couple years ago, as another freak athlete from PSU with production that didn't match. I don't mind the pick at all. I think if Detroit was offering 73 to move up from 29 like they did for 24 I'd have rather gone that route.
I think mostly I was just relieved it wasn't Worthy.

 

[Gatorman]

So, I have mixed feelings about this pick, but it is hard not to get excited about a 250 lb edge rusher who runs like this guy does.

1) Miami didn't like the trade down scenarios offerred, which means they didn't have a deep list to move back 8 spots. We all see a bunch of guys we liked, but I think this assumes Miami had no interest at CB, and likely has similar grades for all the O linemen still available. Had they moved down, I think their likely route there would have been a WR and we all would have hated that selection.

2) I guess Barton was never in their plans.

3) Now to the pick: You cannot coach speed, and this kid has the kind of speed you want in chasing a Josh Allen around the field. I have not seen a lot of tape, but Penn State did seem to deploy him "Parsons' like" all over the line. 3rd and long late in teh season with Chubb, Seiler, Chop, and Phillips will be a nightmare for Offensive coaches. Kid needs to learn some counters, but he seems to be a "baller" and one thing Chubb and Phillips do (watching Hard Knocks) is work on their craft as pass rushers. If Chop gets in that room he should master the craft and if so, he may be a steal.

4) Ok, so depending on the rest of the weekend, Miami has three positions that have "needs" that they can look to or take the FA route: O line, DT, and 3rd WR. With really only one pick left that "matters" I guess it depends on how the rest of the draft falls. The pick coming up will likely be one of those three. If it isn't, and Miami goes TE, Safety, or Corner, then they have likely decided that they'll coach their way through the loss of Hunt and Wilkins, and re-engage with Odell or maybe even talk to SF about Deebo (that would be sick and I'm sure MOP would hate that).

5) Pass rush is really the one thing that is expensive to "buy" in the FA market (you either pay a lot, give up a lot, or get a guy on the "backside" of their careers) so even if Phillips and Chubb were 100% this is a cheap addition to a room that is getting expensive for Miami. Phillips will be cheap for one more year, and Chubb isn't cheap now, and likely will be out of Miami or taking a pay cut when 2026 rolls around.

6) If Miami doesn't land a DT today, my assumption is they will take one later in the draft bc "Beef" is available later especially if they are not going to be "every down" guys. Miami likely heads to camp with 6 or 7 DTs in a mix of the FA they got and guys they draft or UDFA to see who pairs best with Seiler.

7) Corner back seems like a spot that also has value as teams focused on QBs and Linemen in the first round. To me, the value when Miami picks next is going to be IOL, DT, and CB. I think the WR well is drying up and a few teams (the Bills and Broncos to name two) need them before Miami gets to pick again. I wouldn't get upset if a safety gets picked either.

Finally, I don't think McDaniel loved the pick, but I think Miami is stuck in this DC carousel that almost requires them to take defensive guys early to keep the "new hire" happy. Maybe if the guy the Steelers took was available the Draft plans would be different, but Chop is a solid player at a glaring position of need.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Shame they couldn’t find a trade partner to move down and still get Chop.

Think they can get a comparable Guard to Barton like Haynes or Beebe in the 2nd but you can’t get anything like Chop in the 2nd.

And yep - drinking the cool aid.

Welcome to Miami Pork Chop.

 

[TripleThreat]

https://x.com/PennStateFball/status/1783705267340820860

This is a good look

 

[TripleThreat]

Butch Barry is gonna earn his money with this guy. At least he’s already training with Duke

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10089334-patrick-paul-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-houston-ot

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Butch Barry is gonna earn his money with this guy. At least he’s already training with Duke

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10089334-patrick-paul-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-houston-ot

"High level Backup"
That's what is says at the bottom of that link.
They took a backup OL at 55...this is why Miami doesn't move up a level and win playoff games vs better teams.

 

[SoBeDad]

Butch Barry is gonna earn his money with this guy. At least he’s already training with Duke

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10089334-patrick-paul-nfl-draft-2024-scouting-report-for-houston-ot

"High level Backup"
That's what is says at the bottom of that link.
They took a backup OL at 55...this is why Miami doesn't move up a level and win playoff games vs better teams.

Armstead has no guaranteed money past 2024. Paul needs to start in 2025 for this to be a success. Who was Miami trying to trade up for? We'll never know.

From Barry Jackson:

>>As a senior, Paul allowed only one sack in 565 pass-block situations and had the highest pass-blocking grade among tackles nationally at 91.5, according to Pro Football Focus.

He allowed just two sacks in 1,053 pass-block situations during his final two seasons, after allowing three sacks in 2021. Paul, who is 6-7 and 331 pounds, played all of his college snaps at left tackle – 964, 901 and 777 the past three seasons. He made 42 starts in college.

PFF gave him a run blocking grade of 69, which is average, and well below his pass blocking grade. NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein called Paul a “long, athletic left tackle prospect whose pass protection is much further ahead of his run blocking. Paul’s hands are more active than well-timed or accurate in pass protection, but he does a nice job of muting rush challenges with a decent anchor and an adequate mirror around the top of the arc.

He’s high-cut with a tendency to bend at the waist into contact. He struggles to sustain and finish as a run blocker but that doesn’t appear to be an issue in pass protection. Paul should continue to add play strength, but he also needs to display better effort and full-time grit if he wants to square off against NFL run defenders and become a well-rounded left tackle.”<<

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article287634955.html#storylink=cpy

 

[Gatorman]

Again, guy with all the tools that needs coaching. McDaniels specialty

 

[SoBeDad]

Miami started a mini run at OT. 4 of the next 8 picks were OTs.

 

[Desert_Power]

I don’t understand taking such projects with these picks. Grier has such an awful track record with it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Again, guy with all the tools that needs coaching. McDaniels specialty

Why do you keep beating this drum?
McDaniel helped with the '22 and '23 Drafts, now the '24 Draft...
Name 1 guy Miami/Grier/McD has drafted since he arrived that the team has coached up.
Channing Tindall, Cam Smith...I was pretty high when they drafted Achane but I don't think of that as coaching up, that's talent and speed speed speed.
We have a lot of guys on the back of milk cartons around here.

 

[Desert_Power]

I think Butch Barry has definitely coached up some of these OL guys that previously looked like busts.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Austin Jackson - even though that took 3-4 years.

Grier took Edge & LT - the two high profile, high expense positions where we had an obvious long term need. These 2 guys are replacements for Chubb & Armstead in 2025.

Paul goi)g to work with Armstead and Butch Barry. Armstead and his backup Lamm most likely only have 1 year left in Miami.