2025 Detroit Lions: 0-0 Draft, FAs, trades? (6 Viewers)

[BobbyLayne]

Tier 5 (continued)

Tavius Robinson
Just no bend or ability to rip and dip, straight up and down, has a good first step and some speed to power conversion, one trick pony. 7.4 3-cone, he’ll be a rotation guy somewhere but his upside seems limited because he simply has no bend.

Colby Wooden
Similar to Robinson, good 10 yard split / explosive first step, but that’s it. Can’t flip his hips, bend and win late with contact balance - he can’t do that. He’ll win early in the rep or not at all, if you don’t have bend you can’t win late. Will probably be an edge setter on run downs and kick inside, strictly a special teams guy with some rotation reps and limited upside.

Brenton Cox Jr snd Robert Beal Jr
High effort players with power, decent run stoppers who can do their assignments but limited pass rush. Not great athletes but these guys have a draftable grade, at worst priority UDFA - they’ll be in TC somewhere. ASIDE Cox Jr has been kicked out of two SEC programs. Never got into any trouble off the field, not a bad guy but can’t get along with coaches. Not a crime, not a thug, but probably has some maturity issues / anger management / mental health issues along the lines of he simply doesn’t know how to tolerate distress. That doesn’t make him a pariah but when you’re a 7th rounder that **** won’t fly. Hope he gets the help he needs or grows up quick or finds a way to keep his mouth shut or he’ll be a working stiff in a few years. Football character and work ethic are fine, just kind of a rough personality from what i can glean.

 

[Da Guru]

[Rapoport]

Sources: NFL suspended 5 players, including Lions WR Jameson Williams, for violations of NFL gambling policy.

Lions’ CJ Moore & Quintez Cephus, plus Commanders' Shaka Toney, are suspended indefinitely (at least 1 year).

Williams & DET’s Stanley Berryhill are suspended 6 games.

This message brought to you by FanDuel

It is bizarre. The NFL gets a billion dollars from legal sports gambling sites. The advertise on every NFL game. The NFL is in bed with all the online sport books. The players are allowed to bet on anything they wany other than NFL games. Yet they can`t bet while on down time at the facility.

Get in their car and drive a block away and bet all you want, but don`t dare place a bet from the parking lot. From what i have heard none of the players or staff bet on football. So firing staff members and 6 games for Williams seems too harsh for legal non-football betting.

Also what is interesting is how your value is viewed by the club. Staff members and fringe players were fired and released for betting onsite yet Williams will be back after 6 games. So it is not about right or wrong.

 

[BobbyLayne]

yet Williams will be back after 6 games

you know the reason why, he didn't bet on NFL games, the others did (from the explanations given by the club and the NFL)

Jamo was in Vegas last night at the Davis-Garcia fight, I posted about it in his player thread

he's having a good time

 

[Da Guru]

yet Williams will be back after 6 games

you know the reason why, he didn't bet on NFL games, the others did (from the explanations given by the club and the NFL)

Jamo was in Vegas last night at the Davis-Garcia fight, I posted about it in his player thread

he's having a good time

Yes, he has already made 17 million at 22 years of age. Party on.

 

[BobbyLayne]

yet Williams will be back after 6 games

you know the reason why, he didn't bet on NFL games, the others did (from the explanations given by the club and the NFL)

Jamo was in Vegas last night at the Davis-Garcia fight, I posted about it in his player thread

he's having a good time

Yes, he has already made 17 million at 22 years of age. Party on.

Bro if that was me at 22, the boys would he living large. Dudes allowed to have fun but Twitter had their pitchforks out last night.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

So let's start rethinking where Bijan Robinson could land...
Flip the script and fill in some of the missing pass attack with some short throws to a shiny new RB with the ability to break it at any moment.
Slot-WR. RB1, TE, WR 2...there's different ways to move the football and JW will be back after 6 weeks
I don't see JW being a huge factor now until perhaps Weeks 12-13 and beyond. Might take a little while for him to find his rhythm now.

I would start building a stronger backfield, don't think any WR in the Draft is going to be what you all need right now.
I do like the kid from Boston College but he's on the short side at 5-10.

That's taking 1 mistake and turning it into 2. If we are worried about the passing game, we should address it with a receiver.

Gibbs. Elite pass catching RB. Ability to make splash plays ... until Jameson returns. 2nd round, not first.

Detroit has Swift though. I just don't think having 2 pass catching RBs is really the big fix for having 0 starting caliber outside WRs for at least 6 games.

Bijan Robinson is a bowling bowl and there's a major upgrade from Swift, they aren't even close IMHO

 

[Foosball God]

After the Hurts signing are Lion fans ready to see Goff get 45ish million and 100 to 120 guaranteed?

If he plays anything like last year you have to assume this is what the going rate for a top 10ish QB to get.

Goff had a presser today, they came back for off-season workouts yesterday after 14 weeks off. They asked a Q about an extension and he gave a pretty general answer. Basically I was at or near the top of that for awhile and now it’s been awhile (5 years) since his last deal, if he does his job that will change at some point. No discussions as of rn and not looking for that to happen anytime soon.

Reality is his deal is still significant ($51M over the next 2 seasons), but APY is middle of the pack. He was a Top 5-7ish QB last year so he’s due for a bump if we go that way. If we draft his successor it’s a different conversation. I would think the decision on that will come in 9-10 months.

He’s beyond a Geno level middle mat myMy deal but I don’t think anyone thinks he’s worthy of a Patrick-Jalen deal, his window isn’t as wide as those guys and he’s not at their level.

Doubt they extend him this year. I’m ambivalent but I hope we handle with more forethought than say Kirk Cousins last two employers.

What do you mean by window as wide as Mahomes and Hurts? If he has a good season I can't see them not extending him. It sends a bad message to let a pro bowl caliber QB go into a season as a lame duck.

Depends who they have behind him.

 

[Foosball God]

[Rapoport]

Sources: NFL suspended 5 players, including Lions WR Jameson Williams, for violations of NFL gambling policy.

Lions’ CJ Moore & Quintez Cephus, plus Commanders' Shaka Toney, are suspended indefinitely (at least 1 year).

Williams & DET’s Stanley Berryhill are suspended 6 games.

This message brought to you by FanDuel

It is bizarre. The NFL gets a billion dollars from legal sports gambling sites. The advertise on every NFL game. The NFL is in bed with all the online sport books. The players are allowed to bet on anything they wany other than NFL games. Yet they can`t bet while on down time at the facility.

Get in their car and drive a block away and bet all you want, but don`t dare place a bet from the parking lot. From what i have heard none of the players or staff bet on football. So firing staff members and 6 games for Williams seems too harsh for legal non-football betting.

Also what is interesting is how your value is viewed by the club. Staff members and fringe players were fired and released for betting onsite yet Williams will be back after 6 games. So it is not about right or wrong.

There are lots of things I'm allowed to do when I'm not at work, that I can't do while I'm at work.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

[Rapoport]

Sources: NFL suspended 5 players, including Lions WR Jameson Williams, for violations of NFL gambling policy.

Lions’ CJ Moore & Quintez Cephus, plus Commanders' Shaka Toney, are suspended indefinitely (at least 1 year).

Williams & DET’s Stanley Berryhill are suspended 6 games.

This message brought to you by FanDuel

It is bizarre. The NFL gets a billion dollars from legal sports gambling sites. The advertise on every NFL game. The NFL is in bed with all the online sport books. The players are allowed to bet on anything they wany other than NFL games. Yet they can`t bet while on down time at the facility.

Get in their car and drive a block away and bet all you want, but don`t dare place a bet from the parking lot. From what i have heard none of the players or staff bet on football. So firing staff members and 6 games for Williams seems too harsh for legal non-football betting.

Also what is interesting is how your value is viewed by the club. Staff members and fringe players were fired and released for betting onsite yet Williams will be back after 6 games. So it is not about right or wrong.

There are lots of things I'm allowed to do when I'm not at work, that I can't do while I'm at work.

In some cases, being on this website.

 

[Ilov80s]

Bijan Robinson is a bowling bowl and there's a major upgrade from Swift, they aren't even close IMHO

Of course I would rather have Bijan than Swift but Monty, Swift and Bijan seems like a lot to have invested into the RB position when there are needs at DL, CB, WR, etc.

 

[msudaisy26]

[Rapoport]

Sources: NFL suspended 5 players, including Lions WR Jameson Williams, for violations of NFL gambling policy.

Lions’ CJ Moore & Quintez Cephus, plus Commanders' Shaka Toney, are suspended indefinitely (at least 1 year).

Williams & DET’s Stanley Berryhill are suspended 6 games.

This message brought to you by FanDuel

It is bizarre. The NFL gets a billion dollars from legal sports gambling sites. The advertise on every NFL game. The NFL is in bed with all the online sport books. The players are allowed to bet on anything they wany other than NFL games. Yet they can`t bet while on down time at the facility.

Get in their car and drive a block away and bet all you want, but don`t dare place a bet from the parking lot. From what i have heard none of the players or staff bet on football. So firing staff members and 6 games for Williams seems too harsh for legal non-football betting.

Also what is interesting is how your value is viewed by the club. Staff members and fringe players were fired and released for betting onsite yet Williams will be back after 6 games. So it is not about right or wrong.

There are lots of things I'm allowed to do when I'm not at work, that I can't do while I'm at work.

While I agree for the most part, everyone has a different type of job. I don't like it if the rule extends to him sitting on the trainers table or in an ice tub and he is playing on his phone or if he is in his hotel room or the team plane for an away game. Plus the punishment is way to severe. It should be tiered. Fine, 2 games, 6 games, etc.

Williams is stupid because he knew the rule and if he didn't know the rule then he wasn't paying attention, but that doesn't mean the rule and punishment isn't stupid too.

 

[Ilov80s]

Jose Ramierez from EMU is very interesting. He should get a little boost from how well Maxx Crosby has worked out- though Ramirez is nowhere near the athlete Crosby is.

 

[Ilov80s]

and Bobby, you've got me excited about Nolan Smith. Sure sounds like a Lion- I am just not sure about fit.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Jose Ramierez from EMU is very interesting. He should get a little boost from how well Maxx Crosby has worked out- though Ramirez is nowhere near the athlete Crosby is.

3-Cone Drill 6.95 Shuttle 4.3

These two mean a lot for Edge rushers.

Been hearing him brought up a lot the last few weeks, definitely generating some buzz.

 

[Ilov80s]

Jose Ramierez from EMU is very interesting. He should get a little boost from how well Maxx Crosby has worked out- though Ramirez is nowhere near the athlete Crosby is.

3-Cone Drill 6.95 Shuttle 4.3

These two mean a lot for Edge rushers.

Been hearing him brought up a lot the last few weeks, definitely generating some buzz.

Right, he hit the 2 that really matter. Seems like a pretty interesting prospect. Was committed to Arizona coming out of HS but ended up in juco. Seems like might have had some academic or character concerns early on which slowed his development a bit but he was a real standout in the MAC and they play some good ball there. I am very interested.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Jose Ramierez from EMU is very interesting. He should get a little boost from how well Maxx Crosby has worked out- though Ramirez is nowhere near the athlete Crosby is.

3-Cone Drill 6.95 Shuttle 4.3

These two mean a lot for Edge rushers.

Been hearing him brought up a lot the last few weeks, definitely generating some buzz.

Right, he hit the 2 that really matter. Seems like a pretty interesting prospect. Was committed to Arizona coming out of HS but ended up in juco. Seems like might have had some academic or character concerns early on which slowed his development a bit but he was a real standout in the MAC and they play some good ball there. I am very interested.

Generally have pretty good OL in the MAC. I mean it's still group of 5, but last year CMU had two OL go Day 2. This year I know G Sidy Sow will get drafted. There's another guy out of Toledo who is a good edge, and then of course Karl Brooks of Bowling Green.

Definitely going to be an uphill climb for him but he's at position where rotational guys who can get to the QB can carve out a lengthy career for themselves. The way the pre-draft rules are written you're limited to Top 30 visits but the local tristate guys aren't counted against that, kind of incentivizes teams to look at smaller schools around them. He also plays special teams so that always helps

 

[BobbyLayne]

Calling it now: Lions will draft Nolan Smith.

In play at 6, but *I think* it will go Witherspoon and then a trade up to get Smith.

 

[kutta]

There is a non-zero chance DHop flat out gets cut if they can't find a trading partner. I don't want him (diva) but that's a huge huge talent, and he played at a very high level after he came back from his PED suspension,.

Diva? I don't think that was the motivation for Houston trading him. What's your measuring stick for diva?

I don't follow that close, and I defer to you because I think you follow closer, but I don't remember a pattern of negative attitude from Hopkins.

On a scale from zero to Antonio Brown where does Hopkins fall?

I wouldn’t say “diva,” but he has a reputation for not practicing and doing his own thing. It’s been talked about a lot on Arizona radio the past couple years.

 

[Chaka]

There is a non-zero chance DHop flat out gets cut if they can't find a trading partner. I don't want him (diva) but that's a huge huge talent, and he played at a very high level after he came back from his PED suspension,.

Diva? I don't think that was the motivation for Houston trading him. What's your measuring stick for diva?

I don't follow that close, and I defer to you because I think you follow closer, but I don't remember a pattern of negative attitude from Hopkins.

On a scale from zero to Antonio Brown where does Hopkins fall?

I wouldn’t say “diva,” but he has a reputation for not practicing and doing his own thing. It’s been talked about a lot on Arizona radio the past couple years.

I guess but also think that may be a statement that could be made about the entire Cardinals team under Kingsbury.

Did Hopkins have that M.O. in Houston too? Either way his RoI suggests he would be a valuable addition to most any franchise.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I wouldn’t say “diva,” but he has a reputation for not practicing and doing his own thing. It’s been talked about a lot on Arizona radio the past couple years.

relative to the culture Holmes and Campbell have built, I don't think he would be an optimal fit

 

[Ilov80s]

Calling it now: Lions will draft Nolan Smith.

In play at 6, but *I think* it will go Witherspoon and then a trade up to get Smith.

What role would he fit in on the defense?

 

[jon_mx]

I think we could get six good weeks out of Megatron.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Calling it now: Lions will draft Nolan Smith.

In play at 6, but *I think* it will go Witherspoon and then a trade up to get Smith.

What role would he fit in on the defense?

I don’t care, you draft the best player and figure it out later.

Wide 9, off ball, and even though he’s only 240, 5-tech; he’s been an amazing run defender

Lions play a 5 man front a lot anyway, with a Houston/Okwara/Harris playing Sam and often rushing

Maybe he plays that? IDC, they’ll figure it out

Holmes has said we don’t have depth chart in the war room and we don’t draft for need, that’s the function of free agency/trades

 

[BobbyLayne]

if you draft a better player at a position which is not a need, you just raised the floor of that positional room

that’s a good thing

 

[Ilov80s]

Totally agree- watched some interviews from Nolan based off your comments. Love the guy, seems like a perfect fit.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Well for the first time in many seasons we won't have to look at sourpuss twice a year. Longshot chance but once at the end of the year would be ok.

 

[BobbyLayne]

This is the first of three long profiles. Previously I wrote up the RAS scores of Tight End prospects with thumbnail profiles. These are a deep dive at all the defenders in this class. After Edge, I will cover Interior Defensive Lineman. The third and last in the series will be on Cornerbacks. I may or may not do a short post on OLB, it’s a weak class and the Lions are only looking at a couple of them. I won’t be surprised if we do not draft one.

yeah sorry, that's not happening lol.

took too long to cobble together the write-ups for Edge.

not going to be able to carve out enough time plus it was kind of...not fun.

life's too short to waste time on things you don't enjoy.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I promise this will be the last mock I link this year.

2023 NFL Mock Draft: PFF analysts kick off seven-round mock with four QBs | NFL Draft | PFF

Seventeen PFF analysts came together for a full seven-round 2023 NFL Mock Draft, starting with Bryce Young to the Carolina Panthers.

www.pff.com

 

[jon_mx]

Here is my Christmas list for Santa Brad for the first three rounds.

QB: AR15 or Hooker.
RB: Gibbs
WR: Cedric Tillman, Quentin Johnson
DL: Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, Tyree Williams, Bryan Breeze, Caleb Kancey
CB: Witherspoon, DJ Turner, Gonzalez.
LB: Jack Cambell, Drew Sa ders.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Here is my Christmas list for Santa Brad for the first three rounds.

QB: AR15 or Hooker.
RB: Gibbs
WR: Cedric Tillman, Quentin Johnson
DL: Will Anderson, Jalen Carter, Tyree Williams, Bryan Breeze, Caleb Kancey
CB: Witherspoon, DJ Turner, Gonzalez.
LB: Jack Cambell, Drew Sa ders.

I actually saw this in crayon because of the half dozen misspellings. Brilliant, subtle schtick.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Three scenarios for 1.06, how would you feel about each:

1. 2 QBs + both blue chip DL + Witherspoon go top 5; Lions are left with Tyree Wilson, Gonzalez, Levis and AR. Is trading back the best option? Presume fair value achieved.
2. 2 QBs + both Top CBs + Carter go top 5; we sprint to the podium to pick Will Anderson 10 out of 10 times, right?
3. 3 QBs + Anderson + Skoronski go top 5; Lions may choose either Witherspoon or Gonzalez, or Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson, or mayonnaise-in-his-coffee. Brad takes Bijan.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Three scenarios for 1.06, how would you feel about each:

1. 2 QBs + both blue chip DL + Witherspoon go top 5; Lions are left with Tyree Wilson, Gonzalez, Levis and AR. Is trading back the best option? Presume fair value achieved.
2. 2 QBs + both Top CBs + Carter go top 5; we sprint to the podium to pick Will Anderson 10 out of 10 times, right?
3. 3 QBs + Anderson + Skoronski go top 5; Lions may choose either Witherspoon or Gonzalez, or Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson, or mayonnaise-in-his-coffee. Brad takes Bijan.

1: trade back or Wilson
2: Anderson
3: Wilson

Stick with the inside out. Holmes improved the back-end thru FA and #18 can still go in that direction.

 

[JoeKappBudGrant]

Three scenarios for 1.06, how would you feel about each:

1. 2 QBs + both blue chip DL + Witherspoon go top 5; Lions are left with Tyree Wilson, Gonzalez, Levis and AR. Is trading back the best option? Presume fair value achieved.
2. 2 QBs + both Top CBs + Carter go top 5; we sprint to the podium to pick Will Anderson 10 out of 10 times, right?
3. 3 QBs + Anderson + Skoronski go top 5; Lions may choose either Witherspoon or Gonzalez, or Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson, or mayonnaise-in-his-coffee. Brad takes Bijan.

1. trade back 2. Anderson 3. Carter

 

[BobbyLayne]

Stick with the inside out. Holmes improved the back-end thru FA and #18 can still go in that direction.

I think Forbes is pretty high on their board. Crazy bc he's only 166 but he is pretty stick in coverage, and Y1 they can bring him along slowly.

Chalk says Banks at 18 (if we're looking CBs there) but he's more of a off man, quarters zone guy.

 

[Ilov80s]

I think my final thought is

1. Stroud/AR15: Landing a franchise QB on a rookie deal is the ultimate NFL cheat code and would allow Detroit to allocate so much more money to resigning key players, adding future FAs.
2. Carter or Anderson: Carter's personality and work ethic are obviously out of what I can evaluate so I am willing to trust the staff here. These are clearly the best defensive players.
3. Wilson: A little older and a little less productive than Carter or Anderson but sure seems like's built to play DL in the NFL
4. Witherspoon: Best cover guy in the draft, dog mentality and squashed any athletic concerns. This is my fallback choice if the guys who do fall aren't the Lions cup of tea personality-wise.

Trade back for a future 1st is always the dream but not sure that's realistic.

 

[Ilov80s]

Three scenarios for 1.06, how would you feel about each:

1. 2 QBs + both blue chip DL + Witherspoon go top 5; Lions are left with Tyree Wilson, Gonzalez, Levis and AR. Is trading back the best option? Presume fair value achieved.
2. 2 QBs + both Top CBs + Carter go top 5; we sprint to the podium to pick Will Anderson 10 out of 10 times, right?
3. 3 QBs + Anderson + Skoronski go top 5; Lions may choose either Witherspoon or Gonzalez, or Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson, or mayonnaise-in-his-coffee. Brad takes Bijan.

1. AR
2. Will
3. Jalen or Tyree

 

[Chaka]

yeah sorry, that's not happening lol.

took too long to cobble together the write-ups for Edge.

not going to be able to carve out enough time plus it was kind of...not fun.

life's too short to waste time on things you don't enjoy

I'm very happy to hear that. I really admire the work you put into the Edge post but my first thought was "I hope to God he's getting paid for that much work."

 

[Da Guru]

Three scenarios for 1.06, how would you feel about each:

1. 2 QBs + both blue chip DL + Witherspoon go top 5; Lions are left with Tyree Wilson, Gonzalez, Levis and AR. Is trading back the best option? Presume fair value achieved.
2. 2 QBs + both Top CBs + Carter go top 5; we sprint to the podium to pick Will Anderson 10 out of 10 times, right?
3. 3 QBs + Anderson + Skoronski go top 5; Lions may choose either Witherspoon or Gonzalez, or Jalen Carter, or Tyree Wilson, or mayonnaise-in-his-coffee. Brad takes Bijan.

Right now I heard today Levis might be second QB taken.

1. Trading up for a QB costs. If 2 QBs are there and a team wants Lions to move back. Raiders pick 7, do they think Lions are taking a QB? Or another team will trade up? If so swap picks and get a #1 next year.

2. Anderson of course. Won`t be shocked if Lions trade up to get him.

3.Amazing in January Carter was predicted to be a top 3 pick. Another Warren Sapp. Is he worth rolling the dice on? As we see with Williams even the best cultures have problems with immature players. Before all this nonsense and workout happened I would have loved to have Carter be there at 6, now not so sure.

I like Witherspoon over Gonzalez.

 

[Moonlight]

Reported that Chark had another ankle surgery this offseason. Though he is expected to be back for OTAs.
Probably explains why Lions didn’t resign him. Ankle effected him last year and caused him to miss games. Chronic issue.

 

[Ilov80s]

Reported that Chark had another ankle surgery this offseason. Though he is expected to be back for OTAs.
Probably explains why Lions didn’t resign him. Ankle effected him last year and caused him to miss games. Chronic issue.

Hmmm I do wonder when the Lions knew Jamo was involved and possibly getting suspended. Given how they handled other positions for FA, they were pretty careful to cover themselves. Maybe they thought Marvin was enough WR depth?

 

[Moonlight]

Reported that Chark had another ankle surgery this offseason. Though he is expected to be back for OTAs.
Probably explains why Lions didn’t resign him. Ankle effected him last year and caused him to miss games. Chronic issue.

Hmmm I do wonder when the Lions knee Jamo was involved and possibly getting suspended. Given how they handled other positions for FA, they were pretty careful to cover themselves. Maybe they thought Marvin was enough WR depth?

Wondered about that too thought they had known for a while but they signed CJ Moore to a 2 year deal not that long ago. That leads to me think that they didn’t know until recently.

Be interested in learning the details with so many Lions and staffers involved.

 

[BobbyLayne]

2 picks Thursday
3 picks Friday
4 picks Saturday

Have you ever been more excited for a Lions draft?

*****************

CJ Stroud spoke with Dave Birkett today and said "it’s not on accident" his S2 test results were leaked. He also thinks he 'could be in play for the Detroit Lions at 6.’ Story behind the green freep paywall.
*****************

Matt Dery - did his career peak as a Stoney & Wojo intern back in the 90s? - is reporting Jalen Carter is off the Lions board at 6. His “guaranteed prediction” is two DL, one of whom will be Keeanu Benton at either 48 or 55.

*****************

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions are looking at Jonathon Mingo, Michael Wilson and Xavier Hutchinson as a day 2 WR.

****************

If Will Anderson and Tyree Wilson are off the board by that time, and there isn't a compelling trade offer on the table, cornerback is the likeliest outcome - and Witherspoon is the overwhelming betting favorite. That would potentially be a pick over Carter and a QB.

I think it’s widely perceived the best scenario IMO would be if Will Anderson fell. Seems unlikely. But I think Witherspoon + Nolan Smith/Myles Murphy/LVN is the best outcome.

Looking over the Lions PFF man coverage grades from 2022:

Walker (135 snaps) 80.7
Moseley (298) 68.1
Breeze (3) 60.6
Lucas (6) 60.0
Smith (2) 60.0
Joseph (836)) 58.8
Sutton (897) 54.7
Harris (633) 53.7
Melifonwu (93) 51.5
Gardner-Johnson (700) 49.2

 

[Ilov80s]

Inside the Den 2023 Episode 2: Building on the Foundation

Watch the second episode of the 2023 installment of the Emmy award-winning documentary Inside the Den as the Detroit Lions go through free agency, signing ne...

www.youtube.com

 

[Ilov80s]

New episode just dropped

 

[BobbyLayne]

New episode just dropped

Will watch tomorrow, they do a good job with those.

 

[BobbyLayne]

rational head draft

1. Devon Witherspoon
   Nolan Smith (Myles Murphy or LVN or Bryan Bresee as alternates)
2. Steve Avila (Cody Mauch Matthew Bergeron)
   Keeanu Benton (Siaka Ika or Cedric Tillman)
3. Tucker Kraft (Michael Wilson or Sydney Brown or DeMarvion Overshown)
4. ---
5. Kobie Turner (Ivan Pace or Nick Saldiveri)
   Israel Ibandikana (Chase Bor0wn or Sean Tucker)
6. Dorian Thompson-Robinson (Aiden O'Connell or Clayton Tune)
   Starling Thomas V (Sidy Sow or Jarrod Clark)

eff them picks heart draft

1. TRADE BACK
   Bijan Robinson
   TRADE UP
   Jaxson Smith-Njiba (Quentin Johnston)
2. TRADE UP
   Darnell Washington (Jalin Hyatt)
   Steve Avila (non-negotiable this is my guy)
   TRADE UP
   Keeanu Benton (or another big ugly)
3. ---
4. ---
5. ---
6. ---
   Sidy Sow (Jaxon Kirkland)

 

[Apple Juice]

I hate to say it but I'd be disappointed if we take a corner. Witherspoon may well be the best player available and a "Holmes/Campbell" kind of guy, but it feels low impact and not a big gain for our outlook next year. A top 6 pick is so valuable it would suck to not get a high-impact star. I'm sure I would come around. In the moment I'd feel let down.

My preference:

Anderson / Carter / Wilson / Trade back / Richardson.

I've been out on Stroud from the beginning and don't have a good feel for Levis. Richardson would ignite controversy and isn't likely to happen but I'm okay with taking a big swing there.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I hate to say it but I'd be disappointed if we take a corner. Witherspoon may well be the best player available and a "Holmes/Campbell" kind of guy, but it feels low impact and not a big gain for our outlook next year. A top 6 pick is so valuable it would suck to not get a high-impact star. I'm sure I would come around. In the moment I'd feel let down.

My preference:

Anderson / Carter / Wilson / Trade back / Richardson.

I've been out on Stroud from the beginning and don't have a good feel for Levis. Richardson would ignite controversy and isn't likely to happen but I'm okay with taking a big swing there.

I see this all over, very common sentiment.

I'm not tone deaf to it bc I'm with you that generating pressure makes playing pass defense infinitely easier, but I keep looking at this:

2022 Man Coverage Grades

• Moseley 68.1
• Sutton 54.7
• Gardner-Johnson 49.2
• Jacobs 30.6
  
  
• Witherspoon 91.0

I think you need both a great front and a talented back 5. We're trying to emulate the Eagles and 49ers, and the path to a sustainable defense comes from continually investing in the DL. I'd be good with any Top 5 DL. Hope we get both a CB1 and a pass rusher tonight.

The "it's a really deep corner class we can find one day 2" is missing the boat IMO. You have one corner signed for 2024, the rest are mercenaries. DJ Turner or Clark Phillips IIII aren't morphing into press man guys. Witherspoon is the 3rd highest rated defender and has the 4th highest overall ranking on consensus big boards. He is not a reach.

I also think there is undeniable PTSD from taking Okudah #3 in 2020. That was bad eval process, this situation is totally different.

 

[Apple Juice]

I hate to say it but I'd be disappointed if we take a corner. Witherspoon may well be the best player available and a "Holmes/Campbell" kind of guy, but it feels low impact and not a big gain for our outlook next year. A top 6 pick is so valuable it would suck to not get a high-impact star. I'm sure I would come around. In the moment I'd feel let down.

My preference:

Anderson / Carter / Wilson / Trade back / Richardson.

I've been out on Stroud from the beginning and don't have a good feel for Levis. Richardson would ignite controversy and isn't likely to happen but I'm okay with taking a big swing there.

I see this all over, very common sentiment.

I'm not tone deaf to it bc I'm with you that generating pressure makes playing pass defense infinitely easier, but I keep looking at this:

2022 Man Coverage Grades

• Moseley 68.1
• Sutton 54.7
• Gardner-Johnson 49.2
• Jacobs 30.6
  
  
• Witherspoon 91.0

I think you need both a great front and a talented back 5. We're trying to emulate the Eagles and 49ers, and the path to a sustainable defense comes from continually investing in the DL. I'd be good with any Top 5 DL. Hope we get both a CB1 and a pass rusher tonight.

The "it's a really deep corner class we can find one day 2" is missing the boat IMO. You have one corner signed for 2024, the rest are mercenaries. DJ Turner or Clark Phillips IIII aren't morphing into press man guys. Witherspoon is the 3rd highest rated defender and has the 4th highest overall ranking on consensus big boards. He is not a reach.

I also think there is undeniable PTSD from taking Okudah #3 in 2020. That was bad eval process, this situation is totally different.

All valid, and as I said I'm sure I'd come around.

Like many I see the tier break in impact from the top three defensive linemen to everyone else in the draft. We may be in a position where those guys are gone and our options are limited. In that case Witherspoon may be our best option.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I hate to say it but I'd be disappointed if we take a corner. Witherspoon may well be the best player available and a "Holmes/Campbell" kind of guy, but it feels low impact and not a big gain for our outlook next year. A top 6 pick is so valuable it would suck to not get a high-impact star. I'm sure I would come around. In the moment I'd feel let down.

My preference:

Anderson / Carter / Wilson / Trade back / Richardson.

I've been out on Stroud from the beginning and don't have a good feel for Levis. Richardson would ignite controversy and isn't likely to happen but I'm okay with taking a big swing there.

I see this all over, very common sentiment.

I'm not tone deaf to it bc I'm with you that generating pressure makes playing pass defense infinitely easier, but I keep looking at this:

2022 Man Coverage Grades

• Moseley 68.1
• Sutton 54.7
• Gardner-Johnson 49.2
• Jacobs 30.6
  
  
• Witherspoon 91.0

I think you need both a great front and a talented back 5. We're trying to emulate the Eagles and 49ers, and the path to a sustainable defense comes from continually investing in the DL. I'd be good with any Top 5 DL. Hope we get both a CB1 and a pass rusher tonight.

The "it's a really deep corner class we can find one day 2" is missing the boat IMO. You have one corner signed for 2024, the rest are mercenaries. DJ Turner or Clark Phillips IIII aren't morphing into press man guys. Witherspoon is the 3rd highest rated defender and has the 4th highest overall ranking on consensus big boards. He is not a reach.

I also think there is undeniable PTSD from taking Okudah #3 in 2020. That was bad eval process, this situation is totally different.

All valid, and as I said I'm sure I'd come around.

Like many I see the tier break in impact from the top three defensive linemen to everyone else in the draft. We may be in a position where those guys are gone and our options are limited. In that case Witherspoon may be our best option.

Yeah except we really don't know - we think we know what these guys are and what they'll become, but the reality is...year in, year out 50% of first round picks turn out to be replacement level or below

My brother, go to any past NFL draft in the last decade and go through the picks to try ranking a reorder for the top 32. They'll come from round 2 and round 3 and you'll still need 2-7 players from Day 3 or UDFA. No draft is about one player; Holmes is the kind of elite talent evaluator who can find contributors from anywhere.

Not to be sanctimonious, heck I get down on things when something goes wrong (or worse, it could go wrong lol) too. But dude, this defeatist attitude - aw man, there's only 3 players and the top 5 will 2 QBs and the 3 blue chip defenders - dude that's just hot garbage. Honestly it's SOL, we see that thinking happen every week....oh gosh, we had a turnover, that was a key penalty, we have 3 guys on the injury list, welp gonna lose now bc we have to play perfect to win

Which is bullcrap; almost every win last year (except maybe Jax and the home Chi games) we had mistakes and flaws. You don't have to be perfect to win, you just need to make a couple more plays than the other team (bc they're going to miss opportunities too.) We had subs step in and step up every week (I noticed other teams have injuries, too.)

Holmes isn't perfect, he's just a man, has the occasional whiff, promising players have injuries, trade that didn't work out. However, he gets 95% of his job right, enough that the occasional L is mitigated. We already have one of the better rosters in the NFC. That's not a random accident. They're done a great job at roster construction the last 3 offseasons, and it's only going to get get better over the next 3 days. Even if Anderson or Wilson don't fall to us, or we pass on Carter, or Witherspoon turns out to be a disappointment. Worst case, we'll be raising the floor in several positional groups.

No matter how perfect this draft goes, you're still going to have injuries and face team adversity. The key is how they respond to challenges. I think they have both talent and the right kind of people in the locker room. I'm so encouraged seeing how many players are there at voluntary workouts. They know just because Vegas has them as pre draft favorites to win the North, nobody is giving that to them. They're putting in the work. The boys are focused (and also having fun while building camaraderie.)

Things are going well. Jamo and the other idiots are not the end of the world. Enjoy the process guys, we finally have competent people running the franchise.