2025 Las Vegas Raiders thread - ☠ Everyone is 0-0 ☠ (16 Viewers)

[ICON211]

Carroll is not Gruden in terms of influence on QB success in the passing game.

?? The coordinator is Chip Kelly

And he works for and takes direction from Carroll.

This tangent began when someone referenced Goff, implying that because Goff improved significantly after being traded that Geno will or could as well. That is apples and oranges.

And someone also referenced Gannon. Again, different situation.

If you guys expect some kind of big improvement from Geno under Chip and Carroll, I will agree to disagree.

I don't think anyone is expecting this, just that it is possible.

 

[Chadstroma]

Carroll is not Gruden in terms of influence on QB success in the passing game.

?? The coordinator is Chip Kelly

And he works for and takes direction from Carroll.

This tangent began when someone referenced Goff, implying that because Goff improved significantly after being traded that Geno will or could as well. That is apples and oranges.

And someone also referenced Gannon. Again, different situation.

If you guys expect some kind of big improvement from Geno under Chip and Carroll, I will agree to disagree.

Carroll and Geno have a very good and strong relationship. That is about as much involvement Carroll will have.

It will all be on Chip, Greg Olsen and Nate Carroll.

Daddy Carroll is not that kind of coach.

 

[MAC_32]

Finding a qb is the holy grail. I suspect they will take one every year in the mid second or lower in the hopes of striking gold.

I will never understand this approach. The teams in the league with a QB continue to fortify itself around that guy. The teams in the league without a QB keep firing bullets at potential ones. When they hit on one the team around that guy is not as good as their competitors because they've been using capital on a bunch of QB's.

Management is hired at least in part for their talent eval and to strategically build the best possible team. Not play darts.

 

[JAA]

Geno is a good match for Chip as QB.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Finding a qb is the holy grail. I suspect they will take one every year in the mid second or lower in the hopes of striking gold.

I will never understand this approach. The teams in the league with a QB continue to fortify itself around that guy. The teams in the league without a QB keep firing bullets at potential ones. When they hit on one the team around that guy is not as good as their competitors because they've been using capital on a bunch of QB's.

Management is hired at least in part for their talent eval and to strategically build the best possible team. Not play darts.

Agreed. But said management will get canned if they don’t “turn things around”. Detroit did it right. Maybe the raiders can do something similar. But the biggest hole on the roster was qb. Geno helps that a lot. Oline is now my priority.

 

[Chaka]

Carroll is not Gruden in terms of influence on QB success in the passing game.

?? The coordinator is Chip Kelly

And he works for and takes direction from Carroll.

This tangent began when someone referenced Goff, implying that because Goff improved significantly after being traded that Geno will or could as well. That is apples and oranges.

And someone also referenced Gannon. Again, different situation.

If you guys expect some kind of big improvement from Geno under Chip and Carroll, I will agree to disagree.

Expect? Not at all.

Discount the possibility with confidence? Absolutely not.

Gannon is a great comp and Goff isn't a bad one either. Under Carroll two unheralded QBs thrived. How can you see that fact and completely dismiss Carroll's ability to maximize output from a QB?

Wilson was in no way a lock for success in the NFL and Geno was objectively a failure until coming under Carroll's wing.

 

[Chaka]

Carroll is not Gruden in terms of influence on QB success in the passing game.

?? The coordinator is Chip Kelly

And he works for and takes direction from Carroll.

This tangent began when someone referenced Goff, implying that because Goff improved significantly after being traded that Geno will or could as well. That is apples and oranges.

And someone also referenced Gannon. Again, different situation.

If you guys expect some kind of big improvement from Geno under Chip and Carroll, I will agree to disagree.

Carroll and Geno have a very good and strong relationship. That is about as much involvement Carroll will have.

It will all be on Chip, Greg Olsen and Nate Carroll.

Daddy Carroll is not that kind of coach.

You keep saying that but he has demonstrated the ability to get high level performance from his QBs, almost a decade apart with a slew of different OCs. The common thread was Carroll. I don't think he's breaking down and rebuilding their mechanics and probably isn't the offensive schemer but he is doing something right in the way he manages his QBs.

 

[Chaka]

Geno is a good match for Chip as QB.

I think that is possible as well. People like to talk about Kelly's NFL run as an abject failure, and he was definitely not great as a GM, but he did impressive work with his QBs. Nick Foles, Mark Sanchez & Sam Bradford all put up their best seasons under Kelly (Bradford went on to another very good season after he left Philly). Even Kaepernick put up his best TD% and INT% seasons under Kelly in SF.

IDK how much room Geno has to grow but I think it is a mistake to say he has definitely plateaued.

 

[LawFitz]

Carroll is not Gruden in terms of influence on QB success in the passing game.

?? The coordinator is Chip Kelly

And he works for and takes direction from Carroll.

This tangent began when someone referenced Goff, implying that because Goff improved significantly after being traded that Geno will or could as well. That is apples and oranges.

And someone also referenced Gannon. Again, different situation.

If you guys expect some kind of big improvement from Geno under Chip and Carroll, I will agree to disagree.

Carroll and Geno have a very good and strong relationship. That is about as much involvement Carroll will have.

It will all be on Chip, Greg Olsen and Nate Carroll.

Daddy Carroll is not that kind of coach.

You keep saying that but he has demonstrated the ability to get high level performance from his QBs, almost a decade apart with a slew of different OCs. The common thread was Carroll. I don't think he's breaking down and rebuilding their mechanics and probably isn't the offensive schemer but he is doing something right in the way he manages his QBs.

Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart at SC as well. While Carson proved to be a decent NFL talent, he was a disappointment at SC until Carroll and Norm Chow arrived. Carroll also propelled some other future NFL bums into higher than deserved draft picks... Mark Sanchez, Matt Barkley. All in all, he's regularly gotten the most out of a fairly uninspiring list of QBs, especially when compared to how they looked without Pete...

Boomer Esiason (1994 New York Jets)
Drew Bledsoe (1997-99 New England Patriots)
Carson Palmer (2001-02 University of Southern California)
Matt Leinart (2003-05 USC)
John David Booty (2006-07 USC)
Mark Sanchez (2008 USC)
Matt Barkley (2009 USC)
Matt Hasselbeck (2010 Seattle Seahawks)
Tarvaris Jackson (2011 Seattle Seahawks)
Russell Wilson (2012-21 Seattle Seahawks)
Geno Smith (2022-23 Seattle Seahawks)

 

[DocHolliday]

I don’t understand the posts that say that signing Geno somehow blocks them from finding their young QB of the future. Draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round this year and let them fight it out, just like the Seahawks did with Flynn and a rookie Russell Wilson.

So the answer is “yes, and” and not “no, but”.

More importantly, signing Geno allows the Raiders to avoid the desperately reaching for a QB in any round this draft rather than taking a player that can contribute. I don’t see any great QBs in this draft but LV should take a swing on a QB if one falls to them in rounds 3 or 4. If not, take a swing next year when there is QB talent available. LV has plenty of holes to fill on both sides of the ball as they build a competitive team and shoot for being a legit playoff team in a couple of years.

That is the biggest plus for me. The biggest fear I had was some massive trade likely over paying to move up and even if not reaching for a QB at 6. Now we can take the BPA on the board and get another impact player like Bowers. That is how you build a team, not continually chasing/wasting picks to fix your QB problem. If the BPA is a QB, so be it... but that isn't the case this year. I would potentially be good with a trade down too depending on who is still on the board, what we get and how far we went down.

I’m getting concerned with how much you and I are thinking alike these days. Something is wrong in the universe. Trading down may actually be the best move depending on what they can pry from another team.

The Raiders are not a SB team with Geno but shoring up QB should keep a decent defense off the field and stay fresh in game and during the season. Draft a QB next year and/or the year after when there are QBs worth drafting.

 

[massraider]

Maxx Crosby Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money, and Contract History | Over The Cap

Maxx Crosby contract and salary cap details, including signing bonus, guaranteed salary, dead money, roster bonuses, and contract history

overthecap.com

Maxx's contract is awesome. His cap numbers are front loaded, they will be below 30 mill in years 3-5. 13 mill in per game bonuses.

Traded Devante Adams for Geno. Signed a G, and JPJ moved to C. Pretty happy thus far

 

[Chadstroma]

I don’t understand the posts that say that signing Geno somehow blocks them from finding their young QB of the future. Draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round this year and let them fight it out, just like the Seahawks did with Flynn and a rookie Russell Wilson.

So the answer is “yes, and” and not “no, but”.

More importantly, signing Geno allows the Raiders to avoid the desperately reaching for a QB in any round this draft rather than taking a player that can contribute. I don’t see any great QBs in this draft but LV should take a swing on a QB if one falls to them in rounds 3 or 4. If not, take a swing next year when there is QB talent available. LV has plenty of holes to fill on both sides of the ball as they build a competitive team and shoot for being a legit playoff team in a couple of years.

That is the biggest plus for me. The biggest fear I had was some massive trade likely over paying to move up and even if not reaching for a QB at 6. Now we can take the BPA on the board and get another impact player like Bowers. That is how you build a team, not continually chasing/wasting picks to fix your QB problem. If the BPA is a QB, so be it... but that isn't the case this year. I would potentially be good with a trade down too depending on who is still on the board, what we get and how far we went down.

I’m getting concerned with how much you and I are thinking alike these days. Something is wrong in the universe. Trading down may actually be the best move depending on what they can pry from another team.

The Raiders are not a SB team with Geno but shoring up QB should keep a decent defense off the field and stay fresh in game and during the season. Draft a QB next year and/or the year after when there are QBs worth drafting.

Imagine, if you will, a world where two passionate sports fans, Chadstroma and DocHoliday, find themselves in complete agreement on all matters concerning their beloved Raiders.

You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension—a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into... The Twilight Zone.

In this strange and wondrous realm, Chadstroma and DocHoliday, known for their spirited debates and differing opinions, suddenly see eye to eye. Whether it's the team's strategy, player performance, or coaching decisions, harmony reigns supreme. The once lively discussions are now filled with nods of agreement and mutual understanding.

But beware, for in The Twilight Zone, nothing is ever as it seems. As the two fans revel in their newfound unity, they begin to wonder if this perfect alignment is too good to be true. Is it a dream, a parallel universe, or something even more mysterious?

Welcome to a world where the unexpected becomes reality, and where the Raiders' fate is decided by an unlikely alliance. Welcome to... The Twilight Zone.

Doo-doo-doo-doo, doo-doo-doo-doo

 

[joey]

Thoughts…

Sign Godwin and draft Jeanty?

Geno, Jeanty, Godwin, Meyers, Bowers, Tucker.

Pretty nice.

 

[Chaka]

Thoughts…

Sign Godwin and draft Jeanty?

Geno, Jeanty, Godwin, Meyers, Bowers, Tucker.

Pretty nice.

IDK about Godwin. He's a fine player but I don't see him as a #1 WR. He seems like a complementary piece.

If they're trying to land a #1 WR in free agency isn't giving a 2nd* for DK a better option?

ETA: LOL literally got a sleeper update that Pittsburgh just traded fom DK within 10 seconds of posting.

 

[Sarlakticacid]

The latest Just win podcast has a good breakdown of the Caroll Signing and Geno trade. Had the Athletics Seahawks guy on there

 

[IHEARTFF]

If the raiders get a top o lineman at 1.6 and draft one of the stud RBs at 2.6 I’m going to be a little concerned

 

[Chaka]

So it looks like Z'Darius Smith and Vonn Miller are set to be released. Assuming Pete Carroll doesn't work his voodoo and turn Tyree Wilson into a legit player (something we would all be foolish to discount entirely) I think Z'Darius, in particular would be a nice complement to Maxx.

Not so much for Vonn but I think he could potentially provide a boost as a situational guy with Maxx drawing so much attention.

 

[LawFitz]

Spillane 3/37 to the Patriots

Huge loss. But at the same time, $13+ per is a huge number for an interior LB. But, Spillane might be worth it. Dude is a hoss if he can stay healthy, which he has to this point. Hoss loss.

 

[LawFitz]

Pats also sign Carlton Davis (Bucs CB) to big money out of the gate, at $20 MM per for three years. They had a ton of cap space and came in hot for Spillane. I suspect their number was WAY above what the Raiders were offering.

 

[Chadstroma]

Adam Butler 3 year $16MM

 

[Chadstroma]

Pats also sign Carlton Davis (Bucs CB) to big money out of the gate, at $20 MM per for three years. They had a ton of cap space and came in hot for Spillane. I suspect their number was WAY above what the Raiders were offering.

$125MM space before they started signing... way above anyone else. We started off third most money available.

 

[Chadstroma]

Tommy Eichenberg draft last year could be huge. Really seemed to echo a lot of who Spillane is. He had a season in the defense though not a lot of playing time. We will see how much confidence Graham has in him with what moves the Raiders make or don't.

 

[LawFitz]

Adam Butler 3 year $16MM

Had to look this up to make sure he got this from the Raiders. He did!

 

[LawFitz]

Butler is such a gem. Thankfully the rest of the league hasn't figured that out. Interior pass rush is so important.

 

[LawFitz]

Forgot that the Pats also signed recently released Harold Landry to decent dollars. Vrabel going hard on defenders to open the new league year. Good for him. Glad he didn't set his dirty sights on Butler too.

 

[Chadstroma]

One thing that I didn't think about before about Geno that I like is that the possibility of signing Wilson is basically gone. Geno > Wilson and I don't think it is close.

 

[Chadstroma]

Pats are spending that money!

 

[LawFitz]

I'd like to see the Raiders sign a solid starting OG:

Will Fries (26)
Mekhi Becton (25)
James Daniels (27)
Kevin Zeitler (35)
Aaron Banks (27)

And at least two EDGE - happy to see them be Koonce and Chiasson. But there is other young talent on the board. Sweat would be awesome.

Josh Sweat (27)
Chase Young (25)
Azeez Ojulari (24)
Joseph Ossai (24)
Baron Browning (26)
Dayo Odeyingbo (25)

 

[LawFitz]

Not sure if he's right following the Achilles injury he had in the 2024 Superbowl, but if he is, Dre Greenlaw (27) would be a nice replacement for Spillane.

 

[LawFitz]

Also need a starting CB1 and WR1 - two premier positions - between FA and the draft. One or both of those holes may need to go relatively unaddressed if the Raiders build correct and prioritize fortifying OL/DL.

 

[LawFitz]

I have concerns about Kolton Miller. I wouldn't mind seeing the Raiders take a stud OT in the 1st round. Maybe trade back a couple spots and take a sleeper(ish) stud that may be ranked a bit lower in the round and stockpile some picks in the 2nd and mid rounds as trade return.

#BuildTheLines

 

[Chadstroma]

We lost Moehrig to Panthers.

 

[Chadstroma]

Pats spending a ton on defense.... Milton, Spillane and Davis. Also Moses on the Oline

 

[LawFitz]

We lost Moehrig to Panthers.

Not gonna cry over this if it was for big dollars, which I'm guessing it was considering this is day one.

Speaking of big dollars. The free wheel Pats just signed 3Tech DT Milton Williams for $26 MM per year. Compare Williams stats to Adam Butler's last season.

 

[Chadstroma]

We lost Moehrig to Panthers.

Not gonna cry over this if it was for big dollars, which I'm guessing it was considering this is day one.

Speaking of big dollars. The free wheel Pats just signed 3Tech DT Milton Williams for $26 MM per year. Compare Williams stats to Adam Butler's last season.

I think I saw 3 year $50ish

 

[LawFitz]

We lost Moehrig to Panthers.

Not gonna cry over this if it was for big dollars, which I'm guessing it was considering this is day one.

Speaking of big dollars. The free wheel Pats just signed 3Tech DT Milton Williams for $26 MM per year. Compare Williams stats to Adam Butler's last season.

I think I saw 3 year $50ish

That should net the Raiders a 3rd or 4th round comp pick, if they don't sign comparable value FA.

 

[ICON211]

Pats spending a ton on defense.... Milton, Spillane and Davis. Also Moses on the Oline

And Harold Landry.

 

[ICON211]

We lost Moehrig to Panthers.

Not gonna cry over this if it was for big dollars, which I'm guessing it was considering this is day one.

Speaking of big dollars. The free wheel Pats just signed 3Tech DT Milton Williams for $26 MM per year. Compare Williams stats to Adam Butler's last season.

I'm with you on this. I was not as high on Moehrig as many people seem to be.

 

[LawFitz]

Milton Williams - Pats - 4/$104 = $26 MM per
6'3'' 290, Age: 25
2023-24: 995 snaps, 5.5 sacks, 64 tackles (32 solo), 10 TFL, 25 Pressures

Grady Jarrett - Bears - 3/$43.5 = $14.5 MM per
6'0'' 288, Age: 31
2023-24: 1062 snaps, 4 sacks, 76 tackles (39 solo), 11 TFL, 28 Pressures

Adam Butler - Raiders - 3/$16 = $5.3 MM per
6'5'' 300, Age: 30
2023-24: 1385 snaps, 10 sacks, 93 tackles (52 solo), 16 TFL, 25 Pressures

:UnderTheRadar:

 

[LawFitz]

Koonce re-signed 1 year $12 MM prove it deal. Fair and good for the Raiders and MK.

 

[LawFitz]

Hobbs leaves for Green Bay. Same contract as Jacobs, 4/$48 MM. $16 MM guaranteed. Fair for Hobbs. If the Raiders don't sign anyone in the $10-17 MM per year range, they probably end up with a 4rd for Moerhig and two 5ths for Spillane and Hobbs. Maybe all 4ths, not sure.

BTW, Raiders signed S Jeremy Chinn for less than the above... 2/$16 = $8 MM per.

 

[LawFitz]

$17 MM per for Moehrig or less than half that for Chinn? Plus this swap could also result in a 3rd or 4th round comp pick coming to the Raiders in 2026.

A Panthers second-round pick in 2020, Chinn signed a one-year deal with Washington last year and was a key piece of the club’s defense. He finished the season with 117 total tackles with seven for loss, 2.0 sacks, five passes defensed, and an interception. He then tallied 29 total tackles with an interception in Washington’s three postseason games.

Chinn was the runner-up for AP defensive rookie of the year back in 2020.

 

[Chaka]

Lost three defenders so far.

Didn't Carroll say the biggest priority was to retain their defensive free agents?

 

[Chadstroma]

Koonce re-signed 1 year $12 MM prove it deal. Fair and good for the Raiders and MK.

HUGE.
A healthy Koonce on the other side of Crosby and Wilkins (healthy) and Butler in the middle is a very good Dline with Chasson, Robinson and Snowden all showing that they can contribute in a rotation. I was worried that they were going to let him walk. I am ok spending 12 on him for one year and then hopefully he goes off and we pay up next year.

 

[LawFitz]

Lost three defenders so far.

Didn't Carroll say the biggest priority was to retain their defensive free agents?

They re-signed the most important of them on a ridiculously cheap contract. And may have upgraded the safety position, while saving $9 MM annual cap and possibly recouping a 3rd-4th rd comp pick as a further result of that swap. So far, not bad IMO.

 

[Chadstroma]

Chinn at that price seems to be a great value to me.

 

[LawFitz]

Let's get Chiasson back too, on a 2-3 yr value deal like the one they gave Butler...

 

[Chadstroma]

Lost three defenders so far.

Didn't Carroll say the biggest priority was to retain their defensive free agents?

Can't retain them all unless you want to overpay. These are the days that teams are splashing money around. You off XX and then an agent comes and says this team is offering XXX you either pay XXXX or let them walk. Sometimes it is best to let them walk and spend the money elsewhere.

 

[Chadstroma]

Let's get Chiasson back too, on a 2-3 yr value deal like the one they gave Butler...

I forgot he was not locked in already.

 

[LawFitz]

Lost three defenders so far.

Didn't Carroll say the biggest priority was to retain their defensive free agents?

Can't retain them all unless you want to overpay. These are the days that teams are splashing money around. You off XX and then an agent comes and says this team is offering XXX you either pay XXXX or let them walk. Sometimes it is best to let them walk and spend the money elsewhere.

This is especially true when you factor in the comp pick formula. You get rewarded doubly by not getting caught in the day one UFA wash.