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2025 Las Vegas Raiders thread - ☠ Matadors on the O-line ☠ (6 Viewers)

Man, total crickets in here after last night. First team OL and DL got their arses kicked by the Seachickens 2nd teams. But that was just one series on O, and no more than two on D.

There were some positives... New DT Booker looked good. As did Thornton and Cam Miller looks half decent as developmental QB. Liked that the backups and future car salesmen fought for a comeback. Every moment counts for culture.

AOC looked ROUGH on those INTs. LBs looked as bad if not worse. Team is going to be a work in progress this year - tempering expectations accordingly.
 
Man, total crickets in here after last night. First team OL and DL got their arses kicked by the Seachickens 2nd teams. But that was just one series on O, and no more than two on D.

There were some positives... New DT Booker looked good. As did Thornton and Cam Miller looks half decent as developmental QB. Liked that the backups and future car salesmen fought for a comeback. Every moment counts for culture.

AOC looked ROUGH on those INTs. LBs looked as bad if not worse. Team is going to be a work in progress this year - tempering expectations accordingly.
Just what many of us needed to remove that last glimmer of blind optimism for a wild card run this year.
 
AOC looks like he is still struggling to get the offense down. But that one under throw INT would have been a TD if Geno was playing.

A lot of work to be done. But it is preseason, can't really get too down or excited about it.
 
Man, total crickets in here after last night. First team OL and DL got their arses kicked by the Seachickens 2nd teams. But that was just one series on O, and no more than two on D.

There were some positives... New DT Booker looked good. As did Thornton and Cam Miller looks half decent as developmental QB. Liked that the backups and future car salesmen fought for a comeback. Every moment counts for culture.

AOC looked ROUGH on those INTs. LBs looked as bad if not worse. Team is going to be a work in progress this year - tempering expectations accordingly.
I haven’t seen a single highlight. Other than over rated/paid Carlson getting blocked :devil:

Sounds like AOC is playing like AOC.

Vegas hs the line just right on the over/under wins.
 
Pre-season is pre-season.

I remember several seasons we went 4-0 in pre-season only to get spanked throughout the actual season. All they are are game like practices.
 
Pre-season is pre-season.

I remember several seasons we went 4-0 in pre-season only to get spanked throughout the actual season. All they are are game like practices.
Yes, but for a coach and team that say that practice matters so much, you’d like to see more juice.

But, yeah, just preseason game #1.
 

NFL's 5 most valuable teams, per Sportico​

1. Dallas Cowboys, $12.8 billion
2. Los Angeles Rams, $10.43 billion
3. New York Giants, $10.25 billion
4. New England Patriots, $8.76 billion
5. San Francisco 49ers, $8.6 billion
6. Philadelphia Eagles - $8.43 billion
7. Miami Dolphins - $8.25 billion
8. New York Jets - $8.11 billion
9. Las Vegas Raiders - $7.9 billion
10. Washington Commanders - $7.47 billion
11. Chicago Bears - $7.45 billion
12. Houston Texans - $7.17 billion
13. Atlanta Falcons - $7.05 billion
14. Seattle Seahawks - $6.59 billion
15. Denver Broncos - $6.55
16. Kansas City Chiefs - $6.53 billion
17. Pittsburgh Steelers - $6.51 billion
18. Green Bay Packers - $6.48 billion
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - $6.47 billion
20. Minnesota Vikings - $6.28 billion
21. Los Angeles Chargers - $6.21 billion
22. Tennessee Titans - $6.2 billion
23. Cleveland Browns - $6.14 billion
24. Baltimore Ravens - $6.0 billion
25. Detroit Lions - $5.88 billion
26. Buffalo Bills - $5.87 billion
27. Carolina Panthers - $5.76 billion
28. Indianapolis Colts - $5.72 billion
29. Arizona Cardinals - $5.66 billion
30. New Orleans Saints - $5.63 billion
31. Jacksonville Jaguars - $5.57 billion
32. Cincinnati Bengals - $5.5 billion
 

NFL's 5 most valuable teams, per Sportico​

1. Dallas Cowboys, $12.8 billion
2. Los Angeles Rams, $10.43 billion
3. New York Giants, $10.25 billion
4. New England Patriots, $8.76 billion
5. San Francisco 49ers, $8.6 billion
6. Philadelphia Eagles - $8.43 billion
7. Miami Dolphins - $8.25 billion
8. New York Jets - $8.11 billion
9. Las Vegas Raiders - $7.9 billion
10. Washington Commanders - $7.47 billion
11. Chicago Bears - $7.45 billion
12. Houston Texans - $7.17 billion
13. Atlanta Falcons - $7.05 billion
14. Seattle Seahawks - $6.59 billion
15. Denver Broncos - $6.55
16. Kansas City Chiefs - $6.53 billion
17. Pittsburgh Steelers - $6.51 billion
18. Green Bay Packers - $6.48 billion
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers - $6.47 billion
20. Minnesota Vikings - $6.28 billion
21. Los Angeles Chargers - $6.21 billion
22. Tennessee Titans - $6.2 billion
23. Cleveland Browns - $6.14 billion
24. Baltimore Ravens - $6.0 billion
25. Detroit Lions - $5.88 billion
26. Buffalo Bills - $5.87 billion
27. Carolina Panthers - $5.76 billion
28. Indianapolis Colts - $5.72 billion
29. Arizona Cardinals - $5.66 billion
30. New Orleans Saints - $5.63 billion
31. Jacksonville Jaguars - $5.57 billion
32. Cincinnati Bengals - $5.5 billion
I'm calling B.S. on pretty much the entire list. If, for example, the Cowboys and Raiders went up for sale at the same time they would sell for pretty much the same price. The only difference would be the external assets that come with the sale.

The most valuable NFL franchise is the one that is currently up for sale.
 
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I'm calling B.S. on pretty much the entire list. If, for example, the Cowboys and Raiders went up for sale at the same time they would sell for pretty much the same price. The only difference would be the eternal assets that come with the sale.

The most valuable NFL franchise is the one that is currently up for sale.
True, the rare opportunity to own a Majority share of an NFL team would drive up the sale price. But as measure of value as of now, I don't see the problem with the list.
 
I'm calling B.S. on pretty much the entire list. If, for example, the Cowboys and Raiders went up for sale at the same time they would sell for pretty much the same price. The only difference would be the eternal assets that come with the sale.

The most valuable NFL franchise is the one that is currently up for sale.
True, the rare opportunity to own a Majority share of an NFL team would drive up the sale price. But as measure of value as of now, I don't see the problem with the list.
The measure of value is identical. It entirely depends on who sells first.

This list probably tried to account for ancillary value outside of the franchise, like the attached properties, or how venue could generate revenue outside football. But that all goes out the window when the team goes up for sale.

The list is arbitrary and inaccurate. The "smallest" market NFL team would sell for a record breaking price if it went on the market today.

IMO, of course. Not trying to start an I fight here.
 
AOC is regressing. Sacks are a QB stat as much as they are an OL stat. And Cam Miller's INT was a wounded duck.

Geno better
a. not get hurt, and
b. not turn into a pumpkin.

Are you confident of both? I am not. Though I always remain hopeful, hope is a poor risk management strategy.
 
AOC is regressing. Sacks are a QB stat as much as they are an OL stat. And Cam Miller's INT was a wounded duck.

Geno better
a. not get hurt, and
b. not turn into a pumpkin.

Are you confident of both? I am not. Though I always remain hopeful, hope is a poor risk management strategy.
I'm feeling good about Geno.

He's not Derek Carr but...
;)

But, sincerely I am feeling good about Geno. I don't see this team as a legitimate contender in this division. But, I do see them as a legitimate surprise team. I worry more about the defense than the offense. By a good margin.

The only thing that would turn them into a true contender in the division, is near All Pro play from either Koonce or Tyree.
 
I don't see this team as a legitimate contender in this division. But, I do see them as a legitimate surprise team

(y)

Agreed but so much of that depends on Geno. Rest of the team can be patched, but you gotta have a QB. Look, if I didn't have hope for him, I wouldn't have drafted him in UNO. I have hope. There is talent around him on offense, particularly at OL and Jeanty, and most of all, Bald Bowser, so let's make it happen.
 
I've only really been interested in the defense, because offense seems set, down to the the 4th WR, 3rd TE, and 3rd QB.

DT will continue to be a problem, I will assume. Laulu, Booker, and Tyree have all had some moments in these preseason games, so we may get a decent rotation, but unless it's Crosby or Koonce, I don't see a pass rush. Tyree is exactly what he looked like the last two years, a base end with no wiggle or moves, who can occasionally shove thru a G. He'll be here one more year, and move on. Perhaps he can be a 3rd down pass rushing DT for some other team.

After two preseason games, I think Jamal Adams needs to start. We will see how long this Devin White farce goes on, but Adams has been a playmaker, and making plays is what gets you on the field. Eichenberg had a good game, and looks quick. LB in much better place than I thought 3 months ago
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
It’s a dream for sure to think that Tyree is a “sweetener” to a first round pick to try to get this deal done. Might be the opposite. “Hey, why are you trying to pawn off your reach of a pick on us?!?!!?”


ETA: Proofread, Joey. Proofread. I think that every single post I make on this board requires me to re-edit it twice to fix stupid typos or autocorrects. If I just took 10 seconds to proofread before hitting Reply, it would save me time.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
It’s a dream for sure to think that Tyree is a “sweetener” to a first round pick to try to get this deal done. Might be the opposite. “Hey, why are you trying to pawn off your reach of a pick on us?!?!!?”
He wasn't a reach.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
It’s a dream for sure to think that Tyree is a “sweetener” to a first round pick to try to get this deal done. Might be the opposite. “Hey, why are you trying to pawn off your reach of a pick on us?!?!!?”
He wasn't a reach.
Ok. Swap that out with “underachiever”.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
It’s a dream for sure to think that Tyree is a “sweetener” to a first round pick to try to get this deal done. Might be the opposite. “Hey, why are you trying to pawn off your reach of a pick on us?!?!!?”
He wasn't a reach.
Ok. Swap that out with “underachiever”.
I hope your right because that implies there is a higher level he can achieve.

One could also suggest "bust" as an alternative.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.
Is it wrong for me to dream?
It’s a dream for sure to think that Tyree is a “sweetener” to a first round pick to try to get this deal done. Might be the opposite. “Hey, why are you trying to pawn off your reach of a pick on us?!?!!?”
He wasn't a reach.
Ok. Swap that out with “underachiever”.
I hope your right because that implies there is a higher level he can achieve.

One could also suggest "bust" as an alternative.
Yes, us quick witted, always-looking-for-the-joke kind of posters might jump to “bust” for dramatic/comedic effect, but I know I’m still holding out hope that this new coaching staff can finally unlock “solid” play from him, which would be good enough for me at least.
 
Bengals apparently looking for a young defensive player and a '26 first for Hendrickson.

Any cap guys out there know if the Raiders can afford a big contract for Maxx and Hendrickson? Probably not but next year's first and Tyree sounds like a great price to get him.
With the caveat that Wilkins' situation is under grievance, as it stands now we could easily take that on. We have almost $35M available now and like $90M in 2026. We could structure Henderson similar to Maxx 3 years/$100M and make the cap hits someting like $20M/$40M/$40M if we felt the need to keep 2025 slim in case of a Wilkins win.

Plus if we toss in Tyree that would move about $4M cap hit from 2025 to next year.

I'd rather not trade picks for either, but if you're going to splash, why not make a play for Micah Parsons? No offense to Hendrickson, but Parsons is younger and the more complete player - go big if you're gonna go...

Either way, NEITHER should be brought in if you have to pay him more than Maxx - that should be a hard, if symbolic line.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
Your stance on draft picks is well known. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pay draft picks to ransom your Uncle if he was kidnapped by the Sinaloa Cartel.
 
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I've really loved what I have seen from this rookie class thus far. Jeanty is going to be an elite RB sooner than later, Thornton looks like a day 1 starter, I really hope Bech gets more PT early this week as he has started to tear up practice and made a couple nice catches last week, and best of all Tonka and Pegeus have some super nice film out there.

I'm not trying to get ahead of myself too much but I think the Raiders have the highest # of rookie starters and this class looks extremely solid once the season concludes.
 
Regarding Trey, I personally wouldn't make the move for him. Sure the idea of having Crosby and Hendrickson rushing the passer is insane. However he is going to command as much if not more than Maxx and paying two DEs a combined ~$70M+ is not realistic given the state of our team imo. Especially for a DE who turns 31 in a number of months and requires a 1st + young player.

I'd keep the draft capital and cap for now. The past couple drafts have set us up nicely and I don't think we're in a position to go "all in" at this point in time.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
Your stance on draft picks is well known. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pay draft picks to ransom your Uncle if he was kidnapped by the Sinaloa Cartel.

Do I have more than one uncle in this scenario?
 
The OurLads depth chart currently has Kyu Blu Kelly starting at CB and Chris Smith at S. The Raiders "official" depth chart has them at 3rd string and 2nd string, respectively. Any of you Raiders fans know where OurLads is getting this? I've been studying up for a deep IDP league and had never heard of these guys until checking OurLads today.
 
The OurLads depth chart currently has Kyu Blu Kelly starting at CB and Chris Smith at S. The Raiders "official" depth chart has them at 3rd string and 2nd string, respectively. Any of you Raiders fans know where OurLads is getting this? I've been studying up for a deep IDP league and had never heard of these guys until checking OurLads today.
Super DEEP. I’m not much help. But smith appears to be ahead of Kelly. Neither seem to be in line for a starting slot.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
The secondary is going to dictate where this season goes. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good. I would love to be wrong and it would be great to see some young players will surprise and/or grow into decent players by mid season. We have to have some luck one of these decades.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
The secondary is going to dictate where this season goes. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good. I would love to be wrong and it would be great to see some young players will surprise and/or grow into decent players by mid season. We have to have some luck one of these decades.
See ya in the 2030’s!
 
The OurLads depth chart currently has Kyu Blu Kelly starting at CB and Chris Smith at S. The Raiders "official" depth chart has them at 3rd string and 2nd string, respectively. Any of you Raiders fans know where OurLads is getting this? I've been studying up for a deep IDP league and had never heard of these guys until checking OurLads today.
The Raiders depth chart hasn't been updated since preseason game one. Kelly has been starting as CB1 in practice, The starting safeties are Chinn and Palo-Mao. Chris Smith looks like the 3rd Safety since Lonnie Johnson got hurt.
 
The OurLads depth chart currently has Kyu Blu Kelly starting at CB and Chris Smith at S. The Raiders "official" depth chart has them at 3rd string and 2nd string, respectively. Any of you Raiders fans know where OurLads is getting this? I've been studying up for a deep IDP league and had never heard of these guys until checking OurLads today.
The Raiders depth chart hasn't been updated since preseason game one. Kelly has been starting as CB1 in practice, The starting safeties are Chinn and Palo-Mao. Chris Smith looks like the 3rd Safety since Lonnie Johnson got hurt.

Looking at that list, I'm realizing that unless the Raiders keep 9 OL on the 53, one of Munford, Cappa or the two 3rd rd rookies will be cut. Unlikely the rooks, and *I think* Munford would be safe, so that leaves Cappa, who was guaranteed $5.5 MM when they signed him as a pre-free-agency Bungles cut. Or alternatively, if Cappa looks good enough to unseat JPJ, or even come close, could we be looking at a shocking trade of JPJ before final roster cutdowns???...

 
LB is another room where they seem headed toward cutting some developmental guys from last year, including everyone's favorite, Amari Gainer. Haven't heard a peep about that dude this preseason. :(
 
The OurLads depth chart currently has Kyu Blu Kelly starting at CB and Chris Smith at S. The Raiders "official" depth chart has them at 3rd string and 2nd string, respectively. Any of you Raiders fans know where OurLads is getting this? I've been studying up for a deep IDP league and had never heard of these guys until checking OurLads today.
The Raiders depth chart hasn't been updated since preseason game one. Kelly has been starting as CB1 in practice, The starting safeties are Chinn and Palo-Mao. Chris Smith looks like the 3rd Safety since Lonnie Johnson got hurt.

Looking at that list, I'm realizing that unless the Raiders keep 9 OL on the 53, one of Munford, Cappa or the two 3rd rd rookies will be cut. Unlikely the rooks, and *I think* Munford would be safe, so that leaves Cappa, who was guaranteed $5.5 MM when they signed him as a pre-free-agency Bungles cut. Or alternatively, if Cappa looks good enough to unseat JPJ, or even come close, could we be looking at a shocking trade of JPJ before final roster cutdowns???...

Athletic Beat Writer's Prediction​

Offensive line (10)​

Starters: LT Kolton Miller, LG Dylan Parham, C Jordan Meredith, RG Jackson Powers-Johnson, RT DJ Glaze
Depth: G Alex Cappa, OL Thayer Munford, OT Charles Grant, OL Caleb Rogers, OL Laki Tasi
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
The secondary is going to dictate where this season goes. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good. I would love to be wrong and it would be great to see some young players will surprise and/or grow into decent players by mid season. We have to have some luck one of these decades.
See ya in the 2030’s!
Thats depressing. Seriously, the Raiders are due a break.
 
^^^I truly believe the best approach is to save the draft picks and spend the money on
a. maximizing those selections; and
b. paying them when you do.

This defense already has a general. It needs more sergeants, especially those manning the back lines.
The secondary is going to dictate where this season goes. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good. I would love to be wrong and it would be great to see some young players will surprise and/or grow into decent players by mid season. We have to have some luck one of these decades.
See ya in the 2030’s!
Thats depressing. Seriously, the Raiders are due a break.
Agreed.
 

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