Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Not a tear shed when he was announced as the new Head Coach in New York, they'll be shopping again for a new one soon. Life stays easy for the Dallas Cowboys
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2025 Miami Dolphins - 1-6, Currently hold the #2 pick in the draft. (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter SwampDawg
- Start date
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
cheeseypoof
Footballguy
To amuse myself to see how bad they've been since Shula retired I went back and looked.
Shula
26 years
257-133-2 0.659%
17-14 Playoff record
2 Super Bowls,
5 Conference Championships,
12 Division Titles,
16 Playoff appearances
Post Shula:
26 years
8 HC's (11 if you count interim HCs),
208-209 0.499%
3-10 Playoff Record,
0 Super Bowls,
0 Conference Championships,
2 Division Titles,
7 Playoff appearances
To be honest, their post Shula winning percentage is higher than I thought. That was mostly JJ and Wannstedt.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
As far as the MoP's POV
-Until Miami changes ownership it's frightening the direction we continue to set sail towards.
-I don't want to hear about any OC or DC, if they don't have head Coaching experience and the respect of the locker room then I am not interested and I cannot take this organization seriously and neither should you.
19-14 last 2 seasons and ownership fired the head coach during a rebuild, what coach in their right mind would want to walk in here and accept a position? Either someone really stupid or desperate so use the MoP compass as a guide, and stop wasting all of our time with nonsensical discussion wrapped around an owner that hasn't the foggiest clue what he's doing. Flores once and for all proves it.
Fire a man who wins 7 in a row down the stretch, 8-1 last 9 games of the season, that's somehow still not enough to get a shot the first 8 weeks next year and if he starts off 1-7 again, 2-6, even 3-5, fine then fire him but you went 19-14 last 2 seasons while you were building and trying to lay the foundation, this is ludicrous to give Miami any credit in their coaching search, preposterous to even acknowledge what they are doing as coherent right now.
-Until Miami changes ownership it's frightening the direction we continue to set sail towards.
-I don't want to hear about any OC or DC, if they don't have head Coaching experience and the respect of the locker room then I am not interested and I cannot take this organization seriously and neither should you.
19-14 last 2 seasons and ownership fired the head coach during a rebuild, what coach in their right mind would want to walk in here and accept a position? Either someone really stupid or desperate so use the MoP compass as a guide, and stop wasting all of our time with nonsensical discussion wrapped around an owner that hasn't the foggiest clue what he's doing. Flores once and for all proves it.
Fire a man who wins 7 in a row down the stretch, 8-1 last 9 games of the season, that's somehow still not enough to get a shot the first 8 weeks next year and if he starts off 1-7 again, 2-6, even 3-5, fine then fire him but you went 19-14 last 2 seasons while you were building and trying to lay the foundation, this is ludicrous to give Miami any credit in their coaching search, preposterous to even acknowledge what they are doing as coherent right now.
This is not a good look on Brian Flores, when he fires oline coach Flaherty after a few months on the job in the summer of 2019 because, and Flores says ‘Ah, it’s nothing you’re doing, it’s in my gut.’
There's a chance Flores doesn't get a HC job and has to settle for a DC job somewhere. Supposedly Flores is still a HC candidate in NO. Maybe he ends up as DC under Josh McDaniels with the Raiders.
We all know Grier is a huge part of the mediocrity in Miami. If Miami doesn't have a winning season in 2022, Grier will be fired. But, with lots of cap space, he'll have a chance to dramatically improve the oline, ILB, and maybe a WR, while getting a RB in the draft. The coach he selects may determine his future. If we're not gonna get a coach with HC experience, just hire the best offensive mind and leave Boyer in charge of the defense. Moore and McDaniels are young, 33 and 38, Moore was a lefty QB maybe he can help Tua. But I'm more of a believer in the Shanahan tree. I think Dorsey may be better than either, having success with both Cam Newton and Josh Allen.
Coach stunningly fired by Brian Flores weighs in on Giants candidate
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Thanks for the link, i would not have seen that news story otherwise, great insight, thanks for bringing this here.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I see your thought process and reasoning. Here is mine.
We've covered this but...I'll fire up the projector again
ok, Ross is not into retreads. Guys who were HC somewhere else isn’t really his style. Good bad or indifferent. Not saying I agree because I think someone like Petersen is a good match here (more so than harbaugh who has never coached a qb he didn’t think he was better than).
now let’s look at McDaniel vs the other OC we have hired to be coaches. Philbin may or may not have been a real OC, but something we have learned from the Green Bay coaching tree is those guys (philbin, McCarthy) etc seem to not be very good. Adam gase had manning and from what I heard around town a pretty big bar tab (if you know what I mean).
mcdaniel has been on every good coaching staff the past 16 years. Shanahan in Denver, kubiak in Houston, shanny again in Washington, the falcons under Quinn (other shanny was his OC) and then Kyle S in San Fran. He did have a stint as a college rb coach for a year and a year in Cleveland but that’s a hell of a coaching tree resume.
finally: this from Pierre garçon (remember is career fantasy year in Washington? His wr coach was McDaniel) Garçon endorses McDaniel as next coach for Miami.
again I’m not saying he is my first choice (I’d list them personally as Petersen, daboll, McDaniel, Quinn, the ghost of Jim harbaugh, mike Shula, tony sopranos son, steve spurrier, and finally me) but he graduated from Yale and went right into coaching. His running game is ridiculous and he (and shanny) are doing all this with likely the worst qb in the playoffs that didn’t retire after his last game
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
If they can even get Doug Pederson to walk into the room, I want to know why Dan Quinn was never interviewed. I'm totally on board bringing in a Super Bowl winning coach that defeated Bill Belichick in the big one no less
-My opinion is Miami is being turned down repeatedly by quality coaches saying no way and they are going to end up with some OC or DC and try and proclaim them as the person they always wanted.
Shameful the way the season ticket owners and fans are being scammed and shammed right now.
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Joe Mammy
Footballguy
This. I don't understand it.
He's an ex-Fin player.
He has a Lombardi trophy with a backup qb at the helm.
He has not even been in for an interview.
cheeseypoof
Footballguy
From afar, it seems like after Flores, they want a puppet that will do the bidding of the owner/GM. Doug was seemingly in that position in Philly and got fired when he pushed back. Maybe he sees the situation repeating itself in Miami and he wants no part of it.Joe Mammy said:
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
I would not be surprised at that.
Also, to the "he won a Super Bowl with a backup QB" argument, the results of the 2018-20 Eagles suggest that Frank Reich had more to do with the magic of the 2017 offense than Pederson. IMO Pederson's greatest contribution was aggressive playcalling and decision-making at a time when most NFL coaches wouldn't do that; it very much helped them beat NE in SB 52.
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
This still has to be Harbaugh.
Give him complete control and step aside Ross.
Give him complete control and step aside Ross.
SwampDawg
Footballguy
Things are heating up, lots of rumors flying. I am guessing either McDaniel or Harbaugh are announced by Wednesday afternoon if not tomorrow. I think the longer it takes the more likely it is Harbaugh.. McDaniel or outside chance its Moore I would expect the announcement sooner then later.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Josh McDaniel? I think he's going to LVR although nothing in the NFL seems real right now, Brady retires but then he's not or hasn't said anything officially. I thought Leftwich was being introduced as the Jags head coach but then it seems their search continues. I thought Harbaugh was never going to be plucked by Ross but now he knows he's going to look like an idiot if Harbaugh is an NFL coach and he couldn't hire him from his own Alum.
As i say, things have been getting worse here by the minute since Flores was released.
How does the interview actually go? What questions come up?
Coach Whoziwhatsee: "Let me just understand, your last head coach went 8-1 the last 9 games he was in charge of your team, do I have that right? And what kind of improvement would you be looking for from me?"
Todem
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Mike McDaniel, I see him now in the news clippings, I''m sure they will interview him again while they try and convince Harbaugh to come here.
I agree with @Todem on Harbaugh. I hated that they fired Flores but if that somehow gets flipped into Harbaugh coming here then I would sit back down at the table and listen to their next moves.
Because as it stand now it sure seems like Ross is running things and has his hands all in it and I have not stopped posting about the #1 reason we continue to lose is Ross, he's got to be completely out of the way, the man has no business weighing in on draft picks and Grier mostly does what Ross tell him to do.
I agree with @Todem on Harbaugh. I hated that they fired Flores but if that somehow gets flipped into Harbaugh coming here then I would sit back down at the table and listen to their next moves.
Because as it stand now it sure seems like Ross is running things and has his hands all in it and I have not stopped posting about the #1 reason we continue to lose is Ross, he's got to be completely out of the way, the man has no business weighing in on draft picks and Grier mostly does what Ross tell him to do.
Todem
Footballguy
I am just going to throw this out there. I think the poker face is fully on with the Fins. I am of the belief they are going to make a big move for a QB (Watson, Wilson or Jimmy G). Just feel something is really brewing here. And if Harbaugh is coming in that will seal that feeling for me.
And even if they don’t......2023 we are moving on fully from Tua. Heck it will happen by mid-season 2022 IMO if we come outta the gate like we did in 2021. We will tank again with 2 first rounders on tap in 2023.
And even if they don’t......2023 we are moving on fully from Tua. Heck it will happen by mid-season 2022 IMO if we come outta the gate like we did in 2021. We will tank again with 2 first rounders on tap in 2023.
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Who the hell is Mike McDaniel? Seriously, we did this already back in like 2016, you know the guy. If the San Fran offense was any good they'd be in the Super Bowl and they mostly stunk, didn't score in Green Bay and we're gonna make this guy who at best is 2nd fiddle to Kyle Shanahan, we're going to make this doofus who isn't a head coach and has no head coaching experience, we're going to name this guy our new Head Coach this week according to Adam Beasley.
I just shake my head
I just shake my head
SwampDawg
Footballguy
One of these 3 is not a big splash...Jimmy G is likely an upgrade but he is at best a middle tier QB, no where close to Watson or Wilson. Actually I think Jimmy G is just good enough you improve enough you don't go after a QB in 2023. Give me the stud or roll with Tua and prepare for the best picks possible in 2023.
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Todem
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Dude.......our franchise is a joke.....has been for 21 years running. It’s sad.
He's a Yale grad, hard-working, grew up with a single mom, apparently he's biracial, which is a surprise to me. Rooney rule satisfied by Ross, multiple times. Played WR at Yale. Deadspin apologized for calling him a white guy who got interviews ahead of deserving black candidates. Can he be a good head coach, having learned from the Shanahans? I guess so. The players including Kittle have great things to say about him. Not imposing physically at 5'9" 165 pounds. Sounds nerdy in interviews. It's a crapshoot like most coaching hires. A good QB brings stability to coaching, it's not usually the other way around.
The NFL’s next great offensive mind is hiding on the 49ers coaching staff
>>" I want to put him in my contract,” Kittle said. “You can’t poach him. I want him to be with me the rest of my career.”<<
Why football is more than just a sport to 49ers OC McDaniel
>>"It is surreal when I think about it, but I remember one particular day, walking around and all of a sudden noticing that, ‘Hey, I’m the only fair-skinned person in all these picture frames,’” McDaniel said. “My grandmother on my dad’s side is Black. My dad’s Black."
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Lot of smoke surrounding Harbaugh to the Dolphins happening soon.
Still the only reasonable explanation for Flores getting canned the day after the season ended.
Make it happen Ross. Don’t want another coordinator first time head coach.
Still the only reasonable explanation for Flores getting canned the day after the season ended.
Make it happen Ross. Don’t want another coordinator first time head coach.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I missed this post earlier, good stuff.
I thought Wilson might be the right play. I doubt Seattle would let him go but he is very open about wanting to be in a music city where his wife can be more connected. Los Angeles, NYC and definitely Miami would all qualify.
Why would Wilson want to come here? Miami defense is pretty good, 1 or 2 players from being elite IMHO. The offense is a work in progress but you take Wilson and then you get a strong Running Back to lead the charge, Duke Johnson better at least get a camp invite after the way he ended the year.
I'm sure Wilson would feel he could make the offense good enough to win most games with the Phins defense and they are not out of picks yet either, lots of money to spend from what I see.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
You'd love to believe that Harbaugh told him he couldn't even discuss it with Flores winning and still the head coach so Ross says "Oh yeah, watch this" and fires Flores to send a message to Harbaugh how serious he was in wanting to hire him.
You've been hot on this, pretty sure most would be excited about Harbaugh.
-The story line hasn't changed much around here and I would still out money on Harbaugh failing here but i would still rather swing for the fences with a guy like him vs another OC/DC with no experience, for every McVay there are 10-15 that fizzle inside of 2 years, McVay now has actual tenure in the NFL, I bet there's been 25 coaches or more fired or resigned in the time he's been with Los Angeles.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Did you know Harbaugh interviewed for the Vikings head coaching job? In the last 24 hours I think.
Jeremy Fowler twitter...
"Jim Harbaugh conveyed legitimate interest in the Vikings' head-coaching job during his interview with the team, per source, with Minnesota coming away feeling Harbaugh is ready for a return to the NFL. As of now, he's still considered in the mix for that job."
SwampDawg
Footballguy
That is why all the chatter. I’ve also heard Ziggy Wilf is friendly with Ross and the Vikings interview could be a way to let Ross get Harbaugh without looking bad to Michigan if he was on the way out anyway.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Herein lies the problem. Ross is so concerned w not looking like a doosh that he has a convoluted plan that seems to already be leaking out. So he doesn’t get his guy and still looks like a clown. Now we have to wait until Wednesday?
now I am sure Ross knows Jim H by now so if they have a secret handshake agreement cool. I can live with this guy as coach of Miami. However, let’s look at the opposite side of this. Ross or Grier hire McDaniel and then Jim h takes a job with the Vikings. How does that make Ross look and it becomes Tua/Herbert all over again, except this time w coaches.
gotta 
TripleThreat
Footballguy
Jim H had success but is rumored to be a difficult person to deal with and wants FULL control. Not sure I see him going to Miami, seems like he's going to the well of leveraging Miami for a better deal in Minn.
I'm on board with McDaniel, who seems like his ego won't get in the way (oppo from Flo). He's worked with a ton of coaches, hit rock bottom (drinking etc...) and has worked his way back. I think a person who's seen rock bottom and learned from it has a different perspective that can be successful.
I'm less excited for Kellen Moore, preferring the evolution of the Bill Walsh offense.
It really comes down to what kinda staff whoever they chose can put together...
I'm guessing tomorrow is the announcement.
I'm on board with McDaniel, who seems like his ego won't get in the way (oppo from Flo). He's worked with a ton of coaches, hit rock bottom (drinking etc...) and has worked his way back. I think a person who's seen rock bottom and learned from it has a different perspective that can be successful.
I'm less excited for Kellen Moore, preferring the evolution of the Bill Walsh offense.
It really comes down to what kinda staff whoever they chose can put together...
I'm guessing tomorrow is the announcement.
First that I've heard about McDaniel's past drinking problem, although now that I google it, there are many stories about it and how he overcame drinking and depression during his Atlanta stint. There are many things we don't know about him, but the same was true for Flores and Gase. Until you marry or live with someone, there are many unknowns.
I agree with you that Harbaugh will want near full control, which is a big issue with Grier, unless he allows Harbaugh final say on personnel. Both MN and MIA have lots of missing pieces.
Falcons' brotherhood helped assistant Mike McDaniel through alcohol issue
TripleThreat
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
>>No rush Mr. Ross, everything is fine. Don't want to interrupt Michigan signing day. That would be silly.<<
https://twitter.com/RaymondLepre/status/1488607452564279301?s=20&t=h4vtn7nEoXNCMaOqwSgJEw
TripleThreat
Footballguy
Flores filed a class action suit against the NFL and all 32 teams.
https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf
https://www.wigdorlaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Complaint-against-National-Football-League-et-al-Filed.pdf
Shankopotamus
Footballguy
TripleThreat
Footballguy
=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Couldn’t agree more.
Maybe one of these decades the Dolphins will have a good Oline.
Shankopotamus
Footballguy
From the document:
14. In January 2022, Mr. Flores, who spent three years as the Head Coach of Defendant Miami Dolphins, Ltd. (the “Dolphins” or “Miami”), found himself without a job. He was fired by the Dolphins after leading the team to its first back-to-back winning seasons since 2003. The purported basis for his termination was alleged poor collaboration. In reality, the writing had been on the wall since Mr. Flores’ first season as Head Coach of the Dolphins, when he refused his owner’s directive to “tank” for the first pick in the draft. Indeed, during the 2019 season, Miami’s owner, Stephen Ross, told Mr. Flores that he would pay him $100,000 for every loss, and the team’s General Manager, Chris Grier, told Mr. Flores that “Steve” was “mad” that Mr. Flores’ success in winning games that year was “compromising [the team’s] draft position.”
15. After the end of the 2019 season, Mr. Ross began to pressure Mr. Flores to recruit a prominent quarterback in violation of League tampering rules. Mr. Flores repeatedly refused to comply with these improper directives. Undeterred, in the winter of 2020, Mr. Ross invited Mr. Flores onto a yacht for lunch. Shortly after he arrived, Mr. Ross told Mr. Flores that the prominent quarterback was “conveniently” arriving at the marina. Obviously, Mr. Ross had attempted to “set up” a purportedly impromptu meeting between Mr. Flores and the prominent quarterback. Mr. Flores refused the meeting and left the yacht immediately. After the incident, Mr. Flores was treated with disdain and held out as someone who was noncompliant and difficult to work with.
16. From that point forward, Mr. Flores was ostracized and ultimately he was fired. He was subsequently defamed throughout the media and the League as he was labeled by the Dolphins brass as someone who was difficult to work with.
14. In January 2022, Mr. Flores, who spent three years as the Head Coach of Defendant Miami Dolphins, Ltd. (the “Dolphins” or “Miami”), found himself without a job. He was fired by the Dolphins after leading the team to its first back-to-back winning seasons since 2003. The purported basis for his termination was alleged poor collaboration. In reality, the writing had been on the wall since Mr. Flores’ first season as Head Coach of the Dolphins, when he refused his owner’s directive to “tank” for the first pick in the draft. Indeed, during the 2019 season, Miami’s owner, Stephen Ross, told Mr. Flores that he would pay him $100,000 for every loss, and the team’s General Manager, Chris Grier, told Mr. Flores that “Steve” was “mad” that Mr. Flores’ success in winning games that year was “compromising [the team’s] draft position.”
15. After the end of the 2019 season, Mr. Ross began to pressure Mr. Flores to recruit a prominent quarterback in violation of League tampering rules. Mr. Flores repeatedly refused to comply with these improper directives. Undeterred, in the winter of 2020, Mr. Ross invited Mr. Flores onto a yacht for lunch. Shortly after he arrived, Mr. Ross told Mr. Flores that the prominent quarterback was “conveniently” arriving at the marina. Obviously, Mr. Ross had attempted to “set up” a purportedly impromptu meeting between Mr. Flores and the prominent quarterback. Mr. Flores refused the meeting and left the yacht immediately. After the incident, Mr. Flores was treated with disdain and held out as someone who was noncompliant and difficult to work with.
16. From that point forward, Mr. Flores was ostracized and ultimately he was fired. He was subsequently defamed throughout the media and the League as he was labeled by the Dolphins brass as someone who was difficult to work with.
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=Smackdown=
Footballguy
Wow this is getting uglier by the minute.
Chances the NFL forces Ross to sell?
Chances the NFL forces Ross to sell?
TripleThreat
Footballguy
2 things.
It's been pointed out the prominent QB mentioned was Brady.
NFL reportedly already approved Ross' successor
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-approves-succession-plan-for-dolphins-owner-stephen-ross/
It's been pointed out the prominent QB mentioned was Brady.
NFL reportedly already approved Ross' successor
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-approves-succession-plan-for-dolphins-owner-stephen-ross/
Desert_Power
Footballguy
TripleThreat said:
Not sure what is worse here. That Ross was trying to tamper or that Flores cost Miami a shot at Brady. Unreal ineptitude here.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I'm confused...
1) So the owner wanted him to lose? And he decided to go against that? All he had to do was keep Rosen at QB. So he was such an arrogant POS that even understanding he got an extra year guaranteed on his contract bc they expected to suck the first year of the tear down and he decided, Nah, I'll do it my way?
2) Brady at the end of the 2019 season? Wasn't brady a FA at that point? How is that Tampering? 2020 season was his SB win with TB and 2021 season was this one? Am I missing something here?
1) So the owner wanted him to lose? And he decided to go against that? All he had to do was keep Rosen at QB. So he was such an arrogant POS that even understanding he got an extra year guaranteed on his contract bc they expected to suck the first year of the tear down and he decided, Nah, I'll do it my way?
2) Brady at the end of the 2019 season? Wasn't brady a FA at that point? How is that Tampering? 2020 season was his SB win with TB and 2021 season was this one? Am I missing something here?
finfansteve
Footballguy
We can only hope…=Smackdown= said:
Desert_Power
Footballguy
cheeseypoof
Footballguy
Read this and thought it was a good summary:
“Pretty clear that foolishly firing Brian Flores shockingly made this job infinitely less attractive. What a dumpster fire,” one fan tweeted.
“Pretty clear that foolishly firing Brian Flores shockingly made this job infinitely less attractive. What a dumpster fire,” one fan tweeted.
