Hankmoody
Footballguy
The 141 bajillion dollars in Vegas won't let a few d-bags put a damper on things in this manner.
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☹ Official 2020 Las Vegas Raiders thread ☹ (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I don't see anything 'spilling over' outside the stadium area unless you have a couple of groups wearing gear Raiders vs Chefs/Donks/Dolts... scratch that, there are no Dolt fans.... and someone decides to be a tough guy. But hell, if they can control bikers and gangbangers from screwing up the tourist money grab then I am sure they can handle some football fans.Hankmoody said:
ICON211
Footballguy
PRINCE AMUKAMARADB, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS
Raiders signed CB Prince Amukamara, formerly of the Bears.
The Raiders have been trying to add a veteran corner all offseason and finally were able to bring one in. Amukamara is 31 years old and exiting the prime of his career, but he can make starts in Las Vegas and be a mentor to the Raiders' youthful secondary. Last year with the Bears, Amukamara was graded as the No. 47 corner among 132 qualifiers by PFF and allowed 8.9 yards per target while in coverage.
I'd rather have him than Eli Apple I think.
Raiders signed CB Prince Amukamara, formerly of the Bears.
The Raiders have been trying to add a veteran corner all offseason and finally were able to bring one in. Amukamara is 31 years old and exiting the prime of his career, but he can make starts in Las Vegas and be a mentor to the Raiders' youthful secondary. Last year with the Bears, Amukamara was graded as the No. 47 corner among 132 qualifiers by PFF and allowed 8.9 yards per target while in coverage.
I'd rather have him than Eli Apple I think.
ICON211
Footballguy
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nfl-ticket-resale-trends-las-vegas-raiders-are-smoking-hot-while-patriots-are-deflating-fast-023939917.html
Raiders have sold out all home games.
Raiders have sold out all home games.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Older than Eli but actually has produced consistently as a starting CB for both the Giants and the Bears. Was solid with the Bears recently. Eli is more of a potential signing. Eli has the potential to play better than Prince but just as easily will be horrible. Prince should be solid if not spectacular. Instantly adds veteran leadership to a VERY young secondary with only Joyner having more than 2 years of starting playing experience (I think, can't recall anyone else who does off top of my head). Gives us depth and options versus hoping our drafts picks are ready quickly.
I am a fan of this move.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Like the signing, but want to see terms. I imagine it was a one-year deal but the Bears saved $9M in cap hit by cutting him, and wouldn't want to be paying him as a Top 20 corner in the league.
This brings solid veteran leadership at a position of need, and to @Chadstroma's point, guy has been rock solid if not elite -- a real "Steady Eddie" and reliable press-coverage defender that fits our D scheme well.
It also just might allow us to move Joyner back to a more natural FS position -- I like Joyner but he definitely struggled at times defending out of the slot as a nickel corner. I still think he can rotate between the two, and maybe Amik Robertson eventually takes up that NB slot.
We have a bunch of guys now across the SS/FS position -- Randall, Heath, Harris, Abram, Joyner, Robertson (not to mention Dallin Leavitt and Javin White, and even Muse though I do believe we will play him at LB, where he will be more successful) -- many with experience playing defensive back.
Going to be real interesting to see who makes the cut, how the depth chart plays out, and how they are used in rotation.
This brings solid veteran leadership at a position of need, and to @Chadstroma's point, guy has been rock solid if not elite -- a real "Steady Eddie" and reliable press-coverage defender that fits our D scheme well.
It also just might allow us to move Joyner back to a more natural FS position -- I like Joyner but he definitely struggled at times defending out of the slot as a nickel corner. I still think he can rotate between the two, and maybe Amik Robertson eventually takes up that NB slot.
We have a bunch of guys now across the SS/FS position -- Randall, Heath, Harris, Abram, Joyner, Robertson (not to mention Dallin Leavitt and Javin White, and even Muse though I do believe we will play him at LB, where he will be more successful) -- many with experience playing defensive back.
Going to be real interesting to see who makes the cut, how the depth chart plays out, and how they are used in rotation.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Apparently we were in serious discussions with McCoy before signing Booker.
As well as we were talking to Kirkpatrick before signing Prince.
As well as we were talking to Kirkpatrick before signing Prince.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
I am not sure about the spread of ability at this stage in both their careers between Dre and Prince. I am glad we're just not blindly going back to the Cincy well and Guenther preferring guys he know vs guys that fit.
Kirkpatrick had a down year last year due to injury, but was pretty great in pass defense in 2018. Amukamura is more of a steady producer as opposed to a top rated guy, but the consistency is what I like. They are both the same age and while Kirkpatrick is slightly taller, Amukamura is heavier and plays more of a physical press style. So glad we went with him and had Dre as a backup option.
Booker doesn't excite me, but Shady would be a little scary at this stage. He was elite through Philly and Buffalo up until 2018, when performance just fell off a cliff. You could blame the poor Bills team, but not sure I can explain what happened on a stellar KC team. Reid has always seemed to use one back when it worked, and Shady just didn't work -- couldn't hold off either Williams, and was pretty much inactive through a postseason where the team won the SB.
Booker ain't all that and a bag of chips, but he just may have more upside if only in the youth department.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Agreed. These aren’t the players that put you over the top but they can improve the team enough to fill holes short-term.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I think our defensive gameplan to stop KC is going to be to punch the receivers in the mouth every time off the line. Prince is a good press guy and our draft picks are both pitbulls with press coverage. I mean, we can do that to all teams but it prob is the best way to go to defeat the KC speed. Plus, not sure there are too many LB's out there that can harass Kelce better than Littleton.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I don't feel sorry for the East Bay Peeps. They voted that clown of a mayor in office. Davis isn't broke. Davis and the NFL went to the Mayor and said sell us the property for fair market value and we will build a stadium there and she refused to sell them the property that the coliseum sat on. As a life long Raider fan I'm so glad the Raiders are leaving that clown show up there and moving to Vegas.
I feel for my east bay peeps. The Raider Nation gets a lot of grief, but they’re good fans. Dedicated fans. They come out for good teams & bad, and throw 1000% of their support behind the shield. And they deserve better than to be abandoned for a 2nd time.
F Mark Davis. His last words about Oakland fans were just a slap in the face to a fan base that’s long supported him. He is clueless, broke & incompetent. He took a 700M bribe because he didn’t have the backbone to admit he couldn’t afford to keep the team his dad built.
60+% of my friends are Raiders fans. Maybe 10% have said they’ll go to see them in Vegas. About 1/2 say they’ll continue to root for them. The rest are just absolutely gutted by this.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I’m with you. The Raiders tried to stay in Oakland. This isn’t like the Raiders bolted for greener pastures. They didn’t have a pasture at the current farm. This team has always been popular, not one of the most popular teams, but still popular even while losing year after year. If this team can put some playoff runs together, the popularity and org value will rise nicely. Some of us may miss the old, gritty stadiums and fields at times but those days are gone. Today’s NFL fans and players expect the modern stadiums.
joey
Footballguy
I’m happy they’re getting a fresh, clean start with a modern (effin ultra modern looking!) stadium.
as for Oakland, even if the politicians played along, I imagine that a new stadium would mean some kind of financial kick in from the city of Oakland (bond, taxes, etc) and Oakland has much more important things to spend taxpayer money on than a football stadium imo
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Wut.
Mark Davis is easily the poorest NFL owner. What I saw was that Jerry Jones manipulated him into going to Las Vegas for a 700M bribe.
Of the 3 teams in play, it made vastly more sense for the Raiders to move to LA, since they already have a fan base there. No one in LA gives a rat’s behind about the Rams, no do they support the Chargers.
Blaming the mayor of Oakland because Mark couldn’t afford to build a stadium is ridiculous. Your claim that he “tried to buy the site” doesn’t ring remotely true. Revisionist history to let him off the hook doesn’t do anyone any favors here, friend.
What I recall is that Davis demanded that Oakland GIVE him the land, (or lease it to him cheaply), and he *still didn’t have enough $ to build a stadium*.
He had $500M and was looking for a hand-out from Oakland, and some ethereal investors to help build since a stadium would have cost double that (or more).
Davis bluffed. He tried to blackmail Oakland into giving him the land & they called his bluff.
Around that same time, Ronnie Lott & a group of local investors offered to provide the funding Mark needed, and he turned them down because she didn’t want to give up any % of ownership. If Mark Davis wanted to stay in Oakland, Lott’s investment group had the means and the motivation to help him do so. The fact is, Mark Davis didn’t give a [expletive deleted] about Oakland or raiders fans.
https://theundefeated.com/features/ronnie-lott-leading-the-charge-to-keep-nfl-raiders-in-oakland/
I don’t know where you think you heard that Oakland turned down an offer from Davis to buy the Coliseum, but that never happened.
Here are Mark Davis’ own words on that:
https://www.ktnv.com/sports/mark-davis-explains-how-oakland-stadium-deal-fell-apart-and-vegas-capitalized-
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
As for Raiders fans, I definitely feel bad for them. They poured their lives into that team. They were among the NFL’s most dedicated, Least fair-weather fans. Rain or shine they packed that stadium. They put up with decades of Al Davis’ greed & BS. From blackouts caused by unrealistic ticket sales for “Mt Davis”, to the move to LA & back, to losing season after losing season. Passionate, knowledgeable and articulate fans along with the crazies in the black hole (where I, a Niners fan, once spent an afternoon and despite not wearing any raiders gear was welcomed with open arms).
They will never have as passionate a following in LV.
The Merc nailed it with this piece, IMO:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/12/15/kurtenbach-the-raiders-are-leaving-behind-a-fanbase-with-a-passion-you-cannot-buy/
They will never have as passionate a following in LV.
The Merc nailed it with this piece, IMO:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/12/15/kurtenbach-the-raiders-are-leaving-behind-a-fanbase-with-a-passion-you-cannot-buy/
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
never seriously, always half-heartedly and always as a bad faith approach of attempting to extort the city to remain.
The documented history & facts simply don’t support a good faith effort by Mark Davis to keep the team in Oakland.
Their press dept certainly tried to paint Oakland as the bad guy, but they dropped that schtick as soon as the ink was dry on Vegas.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I don’t think the city of Oakland was the bad guy. Neither the city or Davis had the cash to stay in Oakland so a move was the only option. LA did make the most sense but I have a feeling LV and the Raiders will settle in and be just fine in a few years.Hot Sauce Guy said:
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's more the truth than either "side" is. Davis wanted to buy the land and build there, the city said no. That entire area is landlocked between the bay and the mountains and there just isn't anywhere left to go. SFO had to built their stadium what, 50 miles down the road? Vegas offered $800M in sweetheart money to go that Oakland couldn't/wouldn't match - who wouldn't do that? Who's gonna turn that money down?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think it’ll be the shiny new toy for a few years.
Then it’ll have a hard time competing with the 1,000,000 other things to do in Vegas.
I met one of the Raiders business-types at a FM as all this was going down. The plan wasn’t really to expect Raiders fans to travel, not was it expected that the Raiders would build a local following large enough to fill the stadium.
The plan was to have Vegas hotels buy tickets to use as comps.
And use in-seat gambling to entice fans to experience a new kind of betting, live and in person at games.
however you want to slice it, once the pandemic passes & we have live fan-filled sporting events, after a few years the Raiders essentially don’t have home games any more. Just a bunch of folks who flew in to gamble & got handed a pair of tickets because they stayed at the Hilton and upgraded to a suite.
I don’t think that’s a good thing for the Raiders. Their fans were as much of their mojo as anything.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Again: Even Mark Davis said he didn’t try to buy the land. They wanted Oakland to either give it to them or lease it for pennies on the dollar.
It was polite extortion.
that 700M with the Vegas deal wasn’t on the table yet.
if David wanted to stay in Oakland he woulda sold a % to the Ronnie Lott group and bullt/stayed in Oakland.
Niners worked out their deal in Santa Clara county, near the heart of Silicon Valley. That may only be ~50 mi down the road physically, but it’s a far cry economically from Alameda Co where Oakland is.
i get why Davis took the $. I just don’t believe he ever intended to stay. His “side” absolutely deserves criticism for what looks like bad faith negotiating & for his parting shots at the fans who did so much to support their team over the decades.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
You misread his quote. He used "given" as in "given access to".
given us the land, either leased it or gave it to us on reasonable terms
Leasing != giving. Reasonable terms != free.
You act as if the only fans the team has live in NorCal. I've spent my life in Ohio/Virgina/St. Louis/Ohio and am a die-hard fan. I'm far more likely to get to games in Vegas, where I have a lot more to justify the expense of the trip, than I ever would have in Oakland which was zero. I actually bought the tickets for the draft and will certainly use the voucher to get there for a game once we know they will have fans. Far more Raiders fans will ever travel to Vegas than would have to Oakland and that cesspool stadium they left behind.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
“Reasonable terms” were reportedly very unreasonable.
he was also short hundreds of millions of dollars to build a stadium, which is reportedly what Oakland chiefly balled at.
the ones I referred to who were filling up that stadium certainly did.
every fan base has people outside of their area, but I was specifically talking about fans showing up in Oakland to support the team.
then no offense, but you’re not much of a “die-hard” fan. Sorry, those two statements are incongruous. “I’m a die-hard fan who would never travel to Oakland to see my team play” isn’t a consistent sentiment.
you’re either “die hard” or you’re not.
That’s an opinion, sure. Another is that the Raiders & Vegas are using the stadium for giveaways, and to host more than just football games. I don’t think the Raiders global following is sufficient to bring 65,000 of you to Vegas for a game. Maybe I’m off on that. Time will tell.
but the fans I referred to were the local ones in CA who supported the team. i don’t think they’ll ever have anything resembling home-field advantage in Las Vegas.
maybe they can pull a seahawks & pipe in sound for the new Black Hole.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
So only people with X amount of disposable income are allowed to be die-hard? Please let me know what category I am allowed to put myself in since I live on a budget, am fiscally responsible, and live within my means. Can I call myself "die-kind-of-hard"? "Medium-core"? "Rabid-but-vaccinated"? Your approval here is paramount.“Reasonable terms” were reportedly very unreasonable.
he was also short hundreds of millions of dollars to build a stadium, which is reportedly what Oakland chiefly balled at.
the ones I referred to who were filling up that stadium certainly did.
every fan base has people outside of their area, but I was specifically talking about fans showing up in Oakland to support the team.
then no offense, but you’re not much of a “die-hard” fan. Sorry, those two statements are incongruous. “I’m a die-hard fan who would never travel to Oakland to see my team play” isn’t a consistent sentiment.
you’re either “die hard” or you’re not.
That’s an opinion, sure. Another is that the Raiders & Vegas are using the stadium for giveaways, and to host more than just football games. I don’t think the Raiders global following is sufficient to bring 65,000 of you to Vegas for a game. Maybe I’m off on that. Time will tell.
but the fans I referred to were the local ones in CA who supported the team. i don’t think they’ll ever have anything resembling home-field advantage in Las Vegas.
maybe they can pull a seahawks & pipe in sound for the new Black Hole.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Lmao
I’m sure you’re a fine fan. But not a “travel to see my team” and in the context of my comments I was talking about the home field advantage by local fans, and about local fans who supported the team.
I do appreciate the laugh though, that was hella funny.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
I would totally do that if I lived there. Can't spend $2k for a game though. Bucket trip to Vegas with the kids and a Grand Canyon trip, yes.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Do your research...pretty sure if you book a room in the right hotel you’ll get comped the tickets.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
I like the Witten signing. Moreau was injured last season and will probably need a little time to ease back into the upcoming season. Gruden loves to run multiple TE sets 2 and 3 at times. As a bonus Witten is a very good blocker and red zone target yet.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Same boat. I was born and raised in Steeler country but became a Raider fan in the 70s asa kid that didn’t know I was supposed to be a Steeler fan. I moved around the country after college and didn’t pay much attention to the NFL or the Raiders for many years. I don’t consider myself a diehard fan but the Raiders have always been my team. Now that the Raiders are in LV, there’s a good chance that I actually make it to a home game someday.
ICON211
Footballguy
I have been a Raider fan since 1985 when I was 9 and have lived in NJ my whole life. I have only been to Raider games on the east coast and once in Pittsburgh, but will definitely be going to a game in Vegas.
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Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Put me in the camp of believers that while you are bound to get a stronger contingent of away fans because of the things you point out (casino hotel give-aways, ease of access) is also the things that will make Raider fans from everywhere more liable to go to a game in Vegas than Oakland.
I'm in that camp. Been to a bunch of games in Oakland in my life, but the Bay Area is expensive, and getting to the Stadium once you are in the area is a bit of haul.
Airfare to Vegas has always been kept comparatively cheap, and the Stadium is just off the strip. I am way more likely to go to Vegas for a weekend of some fun and a ball game than I would to the Bay area for the same, and likely save a lot of dough in the process as well.
ETA: Population of Vegas is also bigger than Oakland (though pales in comp. to the Bay area population). I think that also gives the Raiders an opportunity to draw from a much bigger immediate home population in Vegas who are super-psyched to have their own NFL team that will also help fill out the fan ranks).
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massraider
Footballguy
Umm, yeah, I don't think I'm too worried about Raider fans filling the stadium in Vegas. Vegas Raider fans+new converts+Oakland peeps making the trip couple times a year+LA fans driving 3.5 hours to see their team+Raider fans traveling from rest of USA. LA Raider fans coming to Vegas, that is a demographic people are drastically underestimating. LA is still a Raider town, facts.
Of course fans will fly in for weekends to come to games. Enough to where it's like Charger games? No.
It's not like this has never happened before. Cities that didn't have a team got one, and locals came out. If freaking Baltimore can convert a bunch of lifer Colts fans, I think the Raiders can scrape up some fans in a town with one hockey team to call its' own.
The two LA teams have much bigger problems than the Raiders do in filling their stadiums. They're the hot new flavor as well, but their ticket sales are not close to the Raiders.
Raider home games are priced like Super Bowl tickets on freaking StubHub, you might think they will have long term problems, but there are ZERO short term indicators of that happening.
Of course fans will fly in for weekends to come to games. Enough to where it's like Charger games? No.
It's not like this has never happened before. Cities that didn't have a team got one, and locals came out. If freaking Baltimore can convert a bunch of lifer Colts fans, I think the Raiders can scrape up some fans in a town with one hockey team to call its' own.
The two LA teams have much bigger problems than the Raiders do in filling their stadiums. They're the hot new flavor as well, but their ticket sales are not close to the Raiders.
Raider home games are priced like Super Bowl tickets on freaking StubHub, you might think they will have long term problems, but there are ZERO short term indicators of that happening.
massraider
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
NV has historically been a melting pot population. I’ve been to many a sports bar there & between locals & tourists you’ll see jerseys from everywhere.
if they build a substantial Raiders fan base there it’ll take a decade.
and with the hotels getting so many of the Tickets, it makes it harder for locals to get on board.
i hope I’m wrong about this, because the insane fans were a hallmark of the Raiders as an organization.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Again, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right about the stadium being filled with Raiders fans, but let’s be honest here. Hockey is a very different animal.
People embraced the hockey team in Vegas because they likely didn’t Already have a favorite hockey team.
Pretty much everyone has a favorite football team since childhood. I don’t see a Steelers fan living in Vegas embracing the silver & black because they’re the home team.
more likely it’ll take a generation of fans coming up with the Raiders as their home team. And even that’s a maybe since many kids adopt their parent’s favorite team.
i just don’t think hockey is an apples to apples comparison here
massraider
Footballguy
I used to live in Vegas. Raiders had a presence there before.
Teams move. Why would Vegas fans not behave differently than Baltimore fans?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
They wouldn’t. Which is part of the problem.
1/2 my family is from MD. It was a Redskins town.
the Ravens didn’t get a sizable fan base out of the gate. Winning a superbowl did wonders for that.
if the Raiders get there & start winning early, sure - they might embrace them. But I don’t expect a Browns or Falcons fan living in Vegas to hop onto the bandwagon.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
The Raiders will thrive in Vegas like they could never in Oakland.
They suffered through that cesspool of a broken down stadium for years and they couldn't even call that piece of poo their own! They shared it with a baseball team. It was embarrassing as a Raider fan to play there. The city clearly favored the A's. Anything we tried to do that was reasonable was not even close to being accepted by the city. The city did us a favor in my opinion.
Now we have our stadium (sure we will let UNLV play there and have events stuff etc but we are the main tenant every team has that kind of arrangement). It is a new state of the art one. No longer would potential free agents have to think "yea, but then I play on a baseball field half the season and get soaked on state taxes if I go there" but instead it is "these new digs are awesome and no state taxes on my income?! Where do I sign?"
The Raiders have a fan base all over the country. I have seen more than a couple of fellow Raider Nation citizens wearing gear in Chicago. I am sure many of them are like me where since moving from the Northern California area I have not gone to a home game. I am not your typical FBG with cash to kill on flying in for a weekend to a place I otherwise would have no interest in going to at all (Oakland). However, the idea of coming in for a long weekend to Vegas to have some fun and see a game as the main purpose is very exciting. I expect to do this once a year (though maybe not this year) at least moving ahead.
We kept our fanbase in Oakland when we went to LA. We kept our fanbase in LA when we went back to Oakland. Sure, are there a few people here and there that pout their way into "I am not a fan anymore" but all in all we, kept our fanbase in those areas. Now we are heading to Vegas. We will have a fanbase in the East Bay area, Southern California and now in the dessert. And our greater fanbase will come from all over to see games too.
There really is no negative here. This is all good for our Raiders.
They suffered through that cesspool of a broken down stadium for years and they couldn't even call that piece of poo their own! They shared it with a baseball team. It was embarrassing as a Raider fan to play there. The city clearly favored the A's. Anything we tried to do that was reasonable was not even close to being accepted by the city. The city did us a favor in my opinion.
Now we have our stadium (sure we will let UNLV play there and have events stuff etc but we are the main tenant every team has that kind of arrangement). It is a new state of the art one. No longer would potential free agents have to think "yea, but then I play on a baseball field half the season and get soaked on state taxes if I go there" but instead it is "these new digs are awesome and no state taxes on my income?! Where do I sign?"
The Raiders have a fan base all over the country. I have seen more than a couple of fellow Raider Nation citizens wearing gear in Chicago. I am sure many of them are like me where since moving from the Northern California area I have not gone to a home game. I am not your typical FBG with cash to kill on flying in for a weekend to a place I otherwise would have no interest in going to at all (Oakland). However, the idea of coming in for a long weekend to Vegas to have some fun and see a game as the main purpose is very exciting. I expect to do this once a year (though maybe not this year) at least moving ahead.
We kept our fanbase in Oakland when we went to LA. We kept our fanbase in LA when we went back to Oakland. Sure, are there a few people here and there that pout their way into "I am not a fan anymore" but all in all we, kept our fanbase in those areas. Now we are heading to Vegas. We will have a fanbase in the East Bay area, Southern California and now in the dessert. And our greater fanbase will come from all over to see games too.
There really is no negative here. This is all good for our Raiders.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Funny.... I had a conversation with a lifelong Chicago Bears fan that lives out here. He is moving to Vegas to retire. He basically said that he was going to be a Raider fan now.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Agreed. When I was out there in Nov, I saw quite a bit of Raiders gear. No idea if that was people from Oakland/LA or Vegas people or just happened to be random but I didn't see other gear while there and it wasn't just once or twice. It was noticeable.
And a big difference is there is no real 'home team' for Vegas or historical allegiance to fight against. You have a lot of transplants that bring their old teams with them and many will not change (I wouldn't as I haven't since moving to Chicago area) but some will without doubt.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
To my ears this is a bizarre anecdote.
I could move to Antarctica & would still be a Niners fan. And if they put an expansion team, the Antarctic Antelopes in Antarctic, i’d remain a Niners fan. And if the NFL discovered that the Antarctic was such an untapped market they wanted to move the Raiders there instead, I’d still be a Niners fan.
so I cannot relate to your friend the lifelong Bears fan, but I can seriously question his fandom. I guess if I’d been what he’s been through with the Bears, the Raiders might be a “grass is greener” situation, but I didn’t jump ship with Dennis Erickson or Mike Singletary, so...
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Hey... I am there with you. I am a Raider fan no matter where I am. BUT it is dangerous to assume everyone thinks the same as you. Because... well.... not everyone does.
My Uncle is the same. Was a Niner fan for most of me knowing him and then they moved out to Arizona and now is a Cardinal fan. He still likes the Niners but if you asked him to pick, he would pick his 'home team' now.
Obviously, these are the type of fans that will watch the game on TV when it is on, buy a hat and maybe go to a game if it falls into their lap. The kind of guy that goes on the internet to argue with people they have never met about whether the move from Oakland to Vegas is good or not for the team is likely not the kind of fan that will change colors..... but there are other people out there and they make up the fanbase too.
massraider
Footballguy
I'll tell you the home field advantage I'm looking forward to.
Visiting teams flying into Las Vegas on Friday, and perhaps slipping out to enjoy a nice wholesome evening of hookers and blow before they play a football game on Sunday.
Visiting teams flying into Las Vegas on Friday, and perhaps slipping out to enjoy a nice wholesome evening of hookers and blow before they play a football game on Sunday.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Sure, hockey is different in terms of its dynamics and draw, but I don't think it's so different that we should worry whatsoever about it.
Nevada didn't have a hockey team before, and the appeal of having a local home team to root for, regardless of sport, is powerful.
There are also a ton of people who move from high-tax, high-density, HCOL areas like the Bay Area (and LA) to LV and its surrounding areas to retire. Not to mention retirees from the NE who move there for the weather, and are all too happy to have a local team to watch their favorite sport.
One difference is that LVGK took advantage of some new expansion draft rules that allowed them to get a winning team built immediately (and of course, hockey arenas have less tickets to sell in order to sell out). At the end of the day, this is really the biggest driver dictating how the home:away fan ratio pans out.
If the Raiders have winning seasons, stands will be filled with Nation faithful. If they have another stretch like the last 15 years, going to be tougher -- that's not unique to the Raiders, LV, or the NFL. A winning product on field = more rabid homers in the stand any given Sunday.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Me thinks you are not very well versed in Vegas politics. Here is a taste to wet your appetite: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/22/las-vegas-mayor-carolyn-goodman-reopen-coronavirus-entire-interview-anderson-cooper-sot-nr-vpx.cnn
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
That speaks precisely to the point I made about the Ravens above.
winning brings fans.
in Oakland, despite the aging stadium & pee / beer stench, fans filled that place win or lose.
there really weren’t that many blacked out games considering how terrible some of those teams were.
If the Raiders struggle at all, they’re also going to struggle to get a local following. Part of being a new team is fickle fans.
The Oakland home crowd was out there rain or shine, good or bad teams.
so...I guess they’d better hope Gruden can bring them at least a playoff appearance or it’ll be that much harder to build a fan base.
60,000 is a big stadium to fill.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You do realize this logic also applies to the home team, who will he fully immersed in hookers & blow, right?
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
A fair point.
also, go Antelopes!
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
The bolded is simply not the case.
Raiders had a stretch of 11 home games blacked out in a row in 2010. I remember a stat in 2012 that over half of games in the previous 17 years were blacked out.
There are two realities at play here, both of which mitigate the concern you seem to see:
1) The novelty of a new team, win or lose, is going to be a draw. Period.
And one with an iconic history (and bad-### unis) and a brand spanking new state of the art facility even more so. 60K is a lot of seats (not comparative to other NFL stadiums, including Oakland Coliseum), but you see from the immediate sell-out of season ticket licenses and home games and ridiculously high prices for individual game tickets that demand isn't going to be a problem -- from fans local and abroad.
I'd argue that the least fickle of fans are those that are just getting a team -- it's great to finally have a team of their own, and not having any other pro sports besides hockey just drives even more local attention and fandom to this team.
2) Long term, every team needs to win or they will struggle with their following.
That's not just the Raiders in their new home of Vegas. This is not a near-term concern, and its impact applies equally to all teams.
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