AAABatteries
Footballguy
It’s impossible to watch Fox or CNN without getting the opinion - granted that’s what many want but I don’t think it’s healthy for our citizenry. And I’m not even addressing what that opinion is.
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A Note For Conservatives And Christians About Capitol Riot (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
FairWarning
Footballguy
The opinion is geared to their viewship, so that is the coverage. I'll guess the Fox coverage Wednesday centered around the voting while CNN was focused on the rioting. This summer in a reversal of roles, CNN is covering BLM issues while Fox is showing the rioting. Whose right? Depends what side of the fence you're on.
Insein
Footballguy
It's been way longer than 4 years. This has been building for more than a decade by plenty of politicians in Washington who refuse to listen to the people.AAABatteries said:
And now unfortunately because of the actions of a dimwitted fee, they will use this event to reign hell down on the rest of us.
Trump was here for 4 years. He didn't start the fire. It was always burning.
Insein
Footballguy
Which if people had a brain they'd realize it's not right or left. It's elite vs Peasants. The media fans the flames for 20 years and then pretends to be shocked while hiding the smile behind their hands.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I'm sorry, but this is absolutely not accurate. Five people died and many more were injured as a direct result of his attempts not to leave peacefully. While I suspect that many do want a pound of flesh for vengeful reasons, I can speak for myself and state that any repercussions I advocate (such as impeachment and criminal charges) are not for vengeance but as proof that actions do have consequences in order to deter such behavior in the future.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
It's not him that has me concerned. It's his followers that do.
When you combine his habit of speaking without thinking first, with a group of followers who take what he says to the extreme, we now see the danger that can result from it.
It could easily happen again in the next two weeks, and this time it's unlikely that they take his un-thought out words to the extreme unarmed. He needs to be silenced immediately.
Insein
Footballguy
Then I suppose by your logic all the deaths over the summer were on the hands of Democrats and Biden who bailed out the rioters when they looted and pillaged our American cities inciting violence amongst the people.
The protests were perfectly American and the challenges are all detailed in the constitution. Those that entered the Capitol building illegally are all going to prison for a long time.
These politicians are using just the latest tragedy to win yet more political points. They have no intention of calming people down. They've been begging for Trump supporters to do just this for 4 years to give them excuse. They finally got it but with less than 2 weeks left. They could just say they're "How dare you's" and wait for the clock to run out but they just have to try to throw those last passes down field in order to really humiliate their opponents and I don't mean just Trump.
Insein
Footballguy
He has been silenced as our corporate overlords have taken care of right away. Deleting his video telling his followers to stop and go home and banning his accounts.
Say these people are as dangerous as you think. What's going to happen if they forcefully remove the president before times up? You just feed into their hatred more.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Exactly this. As recently as a couple of days ago, I was totally happy to let Trump leave office gracefully and then move on. I was never in favor of "lock him up" or any other backwards-looking recriminations. Now I think it's absolutely essential that he not be allowed to leave on his own terms and that he be prosecuted after being removed from office. Trump and his supporters can no longer be viewed as good-faith participants in a shared government. The events of this week crossed a clear bright line.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If it makes you feel any better, I am also done with everybody who cheered on the riots during the summer, and everybody who's spent the past couple of years fantasizing about ideologically-inspired violence. Many of those people seem to be suddenly aghast that the leopards are eating their faces now.
Insein
Footballguy
Terrorists? See this is where the divide is. These are disillusioned americans who feel the government has stopped listening to them. They represent millions of people in this country. The dozens that trespassed on the capitol grounds are all going to be individually punished as criminals. Yet you're ready to condemn them all as terrorists for protesting further enflaming the situation.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
The idea that someone could denounce both sets of rioting is even partisan. We have to say which is worse and who is responsible and who will pay. How about - “rioting is wrong” - I mean if we can’t throw that in to the things we all agree on thread then what are we even doing. Might as well go Mad Max, everybody for themselves.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
There may be no more unrest from this point on, but the "leave peacefully" train left the station a couple days ago. Can't turn back at this point.
Lots of interesting takes here.
Would you refer to the 9/11 hijackers as “disillusioned Muslims”?
Technically you could say “dozens” trespassed but you could also say hundreds and be accurate. And many hundreds participated in breaching the capitol.
And, I am not sure that you can find a better example of terrorism than a group of like minded people storming the capitol to disrupt the government, and have people fear for their safety.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Yes, I've noticed a ton of that in my social media feed. "But it's cute when my side does it."
Insein
Footballguy
And you and people like you will be stating "how is there so much divide in this country" a year from now when millions still think the election was stolen and the government prosecuted the wrong people.
Insein
Footballguy
It's not a matter of us regular people condemning violence. It's a matter of other politicians using the same language as Trump but pretending to be outraged and shocked at what happened the other day. It's a matter of disproportionate outrage and that will keep the people divided.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Since the world was turning?
To the bolded,.....a lot of times, those same people who have built up ire are re-electing the same people who they claim are not listening to them. Do those angry citizens not want to blame themselves for their mistakes of continually running up to the football that Mitch McConnel puts down; only to have him pull it away?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I will not be asking that question at all. We already know the answer. The answer to that specific question is because Trump, Hannity, Carlson, Limbaugh, Powell, Wood, Q, Cruz, Hawley, et.al. brainwashed those people into believing things that simply aren't true.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I agree with not painting Tennessee or Knoxville with a broad brush
Starting to get concerned with Michigan though
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/01/07/us-capitol-riot-arrests-michigan-residents/6580273002/
Seems like a very real terrorist organization up there
Starting to get concerned with Michigan though
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/01/07/us-capitol-riot-arrests-michigan-residents/6580273002/
Seems like a very real terrorist organization up there
Insein
Footballguy
If we want to get into the literal definition then every one that causes violence at a protest is a terrorist. Do you believe that to be true? Because then we have millions of Americans last year that fit that description. Are you ready to call them all terrorists or just criminals?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Don't know why people keep saying "summer". Antifa riots are still going but you may not know that depending on your news source.
Insein
Footballguy
There in lies the problem. People that have been in government for 40+ years, that have made a fortune off of tax payer dollars get to have say over all of the American people and they only need to please a fraction of the population every couple of years to keep that power. Some don't even bother trying to please them as they know they have it on lock down (McConnell, Pelosi, etc).
Term limits are the only thing that will be able to bring this country forward and they will never be voted in by the current group that's in there. Nor by their successors who end up getting indoctrinated into the game when they arrive at the swamp.
Insein
Footballguy
And they think that Pelosi, Biden, CNN, MSNBC et al have brainwashed you. The truth is you're both right and will never see it.
Insein
Footballguy
It left 4 years ago when people never accepted Trump won. It will only grow further now that people won't accept Biden won. We're being led to a massive turning point where violence will erupt and the government will use that as an excuse to introduce Patriot Act 2 and the people will gleefully thank them for it. They're already trying with what happened Wednesday.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
We're not both right. There is objective truth here. The election was not stolen, the end.
Healing, moving forward, peace, unity, etc. do not come from pretending that all views all legitimate. Some views and beliefs simply are not legitimate, and we shouldn't pretend they are and accommodate them simply to avoid hurting the feelings of those who hold them.
. Terrorists. C'mon. Thunderlips
Footballguy
I'm not as confident in the concept of term limits as being a cure-all.....but I'm not opposed to exploring the idea.
To me, greater representation in the House ( more in line with the proportion of voters to politician that the Founding Fathers had) and MAYBE amending the 17th Amendment (Direct election of U.S. Senators) would go a longer way in alleviating your concerns than term limits.
Insein
Footballguy
Proving my point again.
If Trump had won the election with hundreds of sworn affidavits from various Americans of different backgrounds saying they saw shady practices, if a dozen states changed their laws unconstitutionally before the election and there was video evidence of potential wrong doing, how many audits would the Congress have done by the end of the year? Would they have been in their right to do so constitutionally?
If you can't objectively answer that they would have done at least one and would have been in their right to do so, than you are just as brainwashed.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I watched Trump’s speech on Wednesday and thought it was reckless that he was asking them to go to the Capitol. I was not watching it on CNN or MSNBC. They weren't even showing it.
I flipped the channel to CNN later to see what was happening and heard them adopt the "these are rioters, not protesters" policy live on the air, correcting themselves when they used the wrong word.
There's no doubt that the left wing networks push an agenda.
I watched the right wing media push the narrative that Kyle Rittenhouse was a good guy after he traveled to another state to commit political violence. Then I watched a bunch of right wing people travel to commit political violence.
Insein
Footballguy
Also good ideas that I agree with. Any form of limiting the power of government would be welcome.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
I did not vote for Trump in either election nor would I ever. But when he won and I knew he was going to be POTUS for 4 years I just did what I do everyday and try to lead a good life.
Then right away people are protesting, people are saying Trump is not my POTUS.. Olberman is on TV saying "resist..resist..don`t comply" Hillary screaming the Russians..the Russian were involved. Women marched on DC saying not to accept Trump as POTUS. This was even before Trump took office.
So what is going on now in a different way mirrors what happened 4 years ago.
The Commish
Footballguy
meh....it's crystal clear to me and guys like IK why the country is so divided. That's never been in question...at least for me (can't officially speak for IK on that). Probably the WORST person on this board you could levee this claim against honestly.
Insein
Footballguy
I don't frequent the political forum often so I apologise if he believes this is an issue where the elites are controlling the masses and not a right vs left issue.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I cannot answer what Congress would have done in a hypothetical situation. I suspect that Congress would have followed the law and Constitution as written.
That isn't really what we're discussing, though. My point is simply that you have millions of people who believe things that are objectively untrue. They believe these things because their "leaders" have fed them those lies. The rest of us should not enact policy or go about our business as if those beliefs were legitimate. Similarly, we should not treat a belief that the earth is flat as co-equal with beliefs that it is not. Some things aren't a matter of opinion where differing views are legitimate and they cannot be treated as if they are.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Sessions was a Republican. He and Rosenstein gave credence tot he Russian conspiracy. Almost everyone who tries to use (and I'm not saying you are) RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! as an excuse for Trump and his supporters behavior in regards to this election cycle conviently forgets and ignores that.
If Sessions and Rosenstein did not give credence to the Russia Theories, it would not have given them legitimacy. Would there be some people out there STILL using them; would RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! have become a "Q"ish movement from the Left? Maybe.....but a Republican led (Trump appointed) DOJ office saying "Yeah...we should look into this" pushed the initial narrative that that story might have had legs far more than any Lefists with signs on the streeet corners of the internet.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
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IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
This isn't your qualification to give and it's a shift of the conversation to something else. I'm simply saying that IK and many of us here are fully aware of why the divide exists. You're jumping all over the place FWIW
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Insein
Footballguy
Then everyone who rioted last year and are still destroying neighborhoods today in the name of their political cause (BLM) is also a terrorist in your eyes.
Death Bytes
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
Insein
Footballguy
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Any rioting and destruction of property is textbook domestic terrorism - let's not get caught up in semantics and word games. We can save the argument for why both these groups were protesting to begin with for later but let's start here - rioting is bad, mmmkay.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Not making no excuses for anyone. Hillary stated a number of times she thought Russia cost her the election in fact she still can`t let it go. It was way more than lefties on street corners. We had news anchor Martha Raddatz crying on TV, Colbert and many other celebs were on TV every night doing the same.
To be honest if I never watched TV the last 4 years I would still have thought Obama was POTUS.
Come on man..Just like 4 years ago people need to accept and move on as just like 4 years ago the results are not going to change so lead a good life. All this media, tweeting, social media has made politics more like a sporting event where my side wins and your side is a loser.
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The Commish
Footballguy
And we REALLY have to get off this notion that "terrorists" are only people from outside our country that look different than us. We've had no less than 3-4 domestic terrorist events in the last 4 years and hardly a peep about any of them from a political perspective. I find that odd for such a "law and order" professed group.
