A Note For Conservatives And Christians About Capitol Riot (5 Viewers)

[Insein]

Any rioting and destruction of property is textbook domestic terrorism - let's not get caught up in semantics and word games.  We can save the argument for why both these groups were protesting to begin with for later but let's start here - rioting is bad, mmmkay.

If it's bad, then why were politicians bailing out rioters last year but now inciting vengeance when they storm the capitol?

 

[Summer Wheat]

And we REALLY have to get off this notion that "terrorists" are only people from outside our country that look different than us.  We've had no less than 3-4 domestic terrorist events in the last 4 years and hardly a peep about any of them from a political perspective.  I find that odd for such a "law and order" professed group.

An FBI agent was interviewed on POTUS and stated that whoever was arrested at the Capitol should be charged with domestic terrorism, and going forward when any rioters are arrested burning and destroying public property they should be charged the same way going forward.  Said this has to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Not like it has been dealt with the last year.  What has happened the last year has emboldened protesters to believe they can do whatever they want without repercussion.

If not this cycle will continue.

 

[AAABatteries]

If it's bad, then why were politicians bailing out rioters last year but now inciting vengeance when they storm the capitol?

No clue what you are referring to but you are barking up the wrong tree here if you think I'm in favor or rioting/occupying or anything close to it.  Without knowing specifically what you are referring to my assumption is it was a politician doing his best to sit on the fence between making their supporters happy and promoting law and order.

 

[The Commish]

An FBI agent was interviewed on POTUS and stated that whoever was arrested at the Capitol should be charged with domestic terrorism, and going forward when any rioters are arrested burning and destroying public property they should be charged the same way going forward.  Said this has to be dealt with swiftly and severely. Not like it has been dealt with the last year.  What has happened the last year has emboldened protesters to believe they can do whatever they want without repercussion.

If not this cycle will continue.

It's not just the last year...which is the point I made specifically.

 

[Insein]

No clue what you are referring to but you are barking up the wrong tree here if you think I'm in favor or rioting/occupying or anything close to it.  Without knowing specifically what you are referring to my assumption is it was a politician doing his best to sit on the fence between making their supporters happy and promoting law and order.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-biden-bail/biden-staff-donate-to-group-that-pays-bail-in-riot-torn-minneapolis-idUSKBN2360SZ

 

[shadrap]

I was trying to have a serious conversation about how I feel about this. Derailing it to football coaches being fired for saying awful things is not really part of that. But it really doesn't matter for the thread I guess. I mainly wanted to put out there what I was thinking. 

appreciate the thought & your effort.  your main message is drown out by pure hatred.

never thought it would come to this.  the divide is to great.  IMHO

 

[AAABatteries]

And to reiterate a few other points I've made the last day or two.  I'm fine with anybody protesting peacefully for just about anything (I would say literally anything but that's a slippery slope - I'm not fine with somebody protesting pedophile laws for example) - the folks showing up to the Capitol - no problem.  But I vehemently disagree with why they were protesting - it was based almost exclusively on lies from the POTUS and his team and his supporters.  There was steal of the election and that was the whole premise of the rally/protest.  They are misguided and I don't care that they represent millions of people - if anything that makes it worse.  We have millions of people believing lies.  But again, I think they have the right to believe it and protest.  I also think BLM have the right to protest - and their beef is infinitely more legitimate than the stop the steal.  We have video after video of black people being shot and killed for no good reason.  Stop the steal has essentially zero hard evidence - they have conjecture and conspiracy and lies.  But neither of those two groups should riot or do any violence - it doesn't matter that one may be right and one wrong.  Last thought - I think we consistently need to make it easier to vote, secure the vote, audit the vote and make sure things are as perfect as we can get it.  That was done to the best level that our election groups could do it - no problem with reviewing and making things better for next time - but stop the BS that this was fraudulent - it wasn't

 

[AAABatteries]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-minneapolis-police-biden-bail/biden-staff-donate-to-group-that-pays-bail-in-riot-torn-minneapolis-idUSKBN2360SZ

Skimmed it - my initial thought would be:

• They Biden (who did) and staff (no clue what they did) should denounce the violence/rioting
  
• The should speak up for BLM and encourage peaceful protests and continue to denounce rioting/not peaceful protests
  
• The should work to listen to the issues and maybe form a bi-partisan group to listen and see where things can be worked on - work with police departments
  
• If there's groups that setup bail for protesters that they would have a rule that if you are caught rioting they will not bail you out (no clue how they manage that)
  
• Staff of Biden should push for that last point to happen but I'm fine if they want to bail out protesters
  
• We should fix things where true protesters are not arrested - I have no clue what the breakdown was but if you are being peaceful and following the rules then ideally you won't need bailing out (this is the biggest Pollyanna point)
  

I have probably 10 other points but that should cover most of it, I think.

 

[RnR]

And to reiterate a few other points I've made the last day or two.  I'm fine with anybody protesting peacefully for just about anything (I would say literally anything but that's a slippery slope - I'm not fine with somebody protesting pedophile laws for example) - the folks showing up to the Capitol - no problem.  But I vehemently disagree with why they were protesting - it was based almost exclusively on lies from the POTUS and his team and his supporters.  There was steal of the election and that was the whole premise of the rally/protest.  They are misguided and I don't care that they represent millions of people - if anything that makes it worse.  We have millions of people believing lies.  But again, I think they have the right to believe it and protest.  I also think BLM have the right to protest - and their beef is infinitely more legitimate than the stop the steal.  We have video after video of black people being shot and killed for no good reason.  Stop the steal has essentially zero hard evidence - they have conjecture and conspiracy and lies.  But neither of those two groups should riot or do any violence - it doesn't matter that one may be right and one wrong.  Last thought - I think we consistently need to make it easier to vote, secure the vote, audit the vote and make sure things are as perfect as we can get it.  That was done to the best level that our election groups could do it - no problem with reviewing and making things better for next time - but stop the BS that this was fraudulent - it wasn't

That's your opinion. You probably want irrefutable legal proof, which of course is the standard on which a real legal case would need to be made. And I agree with you-- Trump doesn't have that and shouldn't pretend like he does. It's over.

However, I understand where some people are coming from.

You may say there's not mass voter fraud, others may say that politicians unilaterally deciding in an election year to mass mail ballots AND not require identification makes things ripe for vote manipulation. Why do you think Abrams is getting such praise in GA? The voting rules were changed and she put together a really good coordinated effort to work that system. You may see that as democracy. Others may see that as election manipulation. And thus, here we are.

 

[AAABatteries]

That's your opinion. You probably want irrefutable legal proof, which of course is the standard on which a real legal case would need to be made. And I agree with you-- Trump doesn't have that and shouldn't pretend like he does. It's over.

However, I understand were some people are coming from. You may say there's not mass voter fraud, others may say that politicians unilaterally deciding in an election year to mass mail ballots AND not require identification makes things ripe for vote manipulation. Why do you think Abrams is getting such praise in GA? The voting rules were changed and she put together a really good coordinated effort to work that system. You may see that as democracy. Others may see that as election manipulation. And thus, here we are.

Irrefutable and legal?  Maybe - but I'd settle for any proof.  Trump had every opportunity to present evidence - every time it was essentially nonsense.  I'm content saying the election being stolen is nonsense and lies - if you want to say it's not based on basically no evidence, knock yourself out.

 

[RnR]

Irrefutable and legal?  Maybe - but I'd settle for any proof.  Trump had every opportunity to present evidence - every time it was essentially nonsense.  I'm content saying the election being stolen is nonsense and lies - if you want to say it's not based on basically no evidence, knock yourself out.

Did you read what I said before foaming at the mouth? I'm trying to help you understand why many people feel the election was stolen, even if --legally speaking-- it wasn't.

I agree with you that Trump has no "proof" that is worth anything. I also tried to point out that most who are upset feel the "fix" happened long before election day.

 

[AAABatteries]

Also, changing election rules is done every election by both sides - if you think that's a problem then you must also think Trump wasn't elected legitimately.  I don't - I think Trump and Biden were elected legitimately.

 

[AAABatteries]

Did you read what I said before foaming at the mouth? I'm trying to help you understand why many people feel the election was stolen, even if --legally speaking-- it wasn't.

  yes, I read it.  If they think it was stolen they are believing lies.

 

[RnR]

  yes, I read it.  If they think it was stolen they are believing lies.

Stolen is probably a bad word. Manipulated is a very applicable word.

Maybe next time we'll just decide sometime in June 2024 to require a social security card at polls and in-person voting only. Sound good?

 

[MAC_32]

Did you read what I said before foaming at the mouth? I'm trying to help you understand why many people feel the election was stolen, even if --legally speaking-- it wasn't.

I agree with you that Trump has no "proof" that is worth anything. I also tried to point out that most who are upset feel the "fix" happened long before election day.

Nobody should care what someone who decision makes based on feelings thinks - regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Stolen is probably a bad word. Manipulated is a very applicable word.

Maybe next time we'll just decide sometime in June 2024 to require a social security card at polls and in-person voting only. Sound good?

If that is what the rules are at the time then you won't catch me saying it was stolen. 

 

[The Commish]

That's your opinion. You probably want irrefutable legal proof, which of course is the standard on which a real legal case would need to be made. And I agree with you-- Trump doesn't have that and shouldn't pretend like he does. It's over.

However, I understand where some people are coming from.

You may say there's not mass voter fraud, others may say that politicians unilaterally deciding in an election year to mass mail ballots AND not require identification makes things ripe for vote manipulation. Why do you think Abrams is getting such praise in GA? The voting rules were changed and she put together a really good coordinated effort to work that system. You may see that as democracy. Others may see that as election manipulation. And thus, here we are.

I can't speak for AAA, but I'd settle for evidence that is admissible in a court of law.  There's a reason NONE of the talking points the President have passed muster when brought up in court.  That should give people pause, but here we are.  Is there a single filing in court that echos the talking points they have been broadcasting to the media?  I've read several of them (but not all) and NONE of them have those claims in the filings.  Wonder why.

 

[RnR]

If that is what the rules are at the time then you won't catch me saying it was stolen. 

But would you say it was manipulated? I think you're caught up on that word. I agree with you that it wasn't stolen.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Its not a very popular opinion - but not all opinions are valid.

Yes - I completely understand why people think the election was stolen.  Those people that think that - are completely wrong for thinking that way, and it should, in no way, excuse their behavior.  

The people who continue to push that theory on the public - are dangers to the public.

But, everyone pushing the theory is incentivized to continue pushing the theory.  Fox News, Newsmax, OANN - they get all the clicks.  Look at how much money Trump collected for his post-presidency PAC - hard-earned money from people by pushing theories they knew, or should have known, were complete fiction.  Its embarrassing.

 

[AAABatteries]

But would you say it was manipulated? I think you're caught up on that word. I agree with you that it wasn't stolen.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by manipulated - if you means rules were changed intentionally to favor one side then I guess I might say maybe.  But I guess I'd want more details on what you mean.  I think we all know that Republicans (generally speaking) want stricter voting laws because they know it gives them the best chance to win and Democrats (generally speaking) want less strict voting laws because they know it gives them the best chance to win.  If you are asking if I agree with that then no - we should want it to be easy for everyone to vote.  Just because those two sides might flip-flop tomorrow based on what's best for them doesn't mean we should focus on anything other than making it easy to vote.

 

[AAABatteries]

We've totally hijacked Joe's thread - if we want to debate voting rights or making sure voting is easy and valid we should do the same thing that Congress should do and move it to the appropriate place (read not this thread and not during the certification of electors).

 

[36Kevon]

And we REALLY have to get off this notion that "terrorists" are only people from outside our country that look different than us.  We've had no less than 3-4 domestic terrorist events in the last 4 years and hardly a peep about any of them from a political perspective.  I find that odd for such a "law and order" professed group.

Nobody here has that notion. Are you talking about your Facebook feed again?

 

[RnR]

Its not a very popular opinion - but not all opinions are valid.

Yes - I completely understand why people think the election was stolen.  Those people that think that - are completely wrong for thinking that way, and it should, in no way, excuse their behavior.  

The people who continue to push that theory on the public - are dangers to the public.

But, everyone pushing the theory is incentivized to continue pushing the theory.  Fox News, Newsmax, OANN - they get all the clicks.  Look at how much money Trump collected for his post-presidency PAC - hard-earned money from people by pushing theories they knew, or should have known, were complete fiction.  Its embarrassing.

Which theory are you referring to here re: dangers to the public? (And if we need a new thread I'm totally cool with that. Didn't mean for this to run amok on Joe's thread)

 

[36Kevon]

We've totally hijacked Joe's thread - if we want to debate voting rights or making sure voting is easy and valid we should do the same thing that Congress should do and move it to the appropriate place (read not this thread and not during the certification of electors).

You might gain some insight to the spirit of the thread if you search for the reason it got highjacked. You dismissed Joe’s premise with your very first post. 

 

[RnR]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by manipulated - if you means rules were changed intentionally to favor one side then I guess I might say maybe.  But I guess I'd want more details on what you mean.  I think we all know that Republicans (generally speaking) want stricter voting laws because they know it gives them the best chance to win and Democrats (generally speaking) want less strict voting laws because they know it gives them the best chance to win.  If you are asking if I agree with that then no - we should want it to be easy for everyone to vote.  Just because those two sides might flip-flop tomorrow based on what's best for them doesn't mean we should focus on anything other than making it easy to vote.

I agree. We should make it easy for everyone to vote. I support a national holiday for it and opening as many polling sites as possible to ensure things move swiftly and efficiently. No voter suppression desired there.

Now, for the other side of that: I also think we should take election integrity seriously. That means one vote for one person. Each person who votes should be able to prove that they are legally entitled to a vote in order to cast it. And I believe we should make every effort to verify these facts on site and in real time. In the light of day for everyone to see.

What we saw this year does not resemble any of that. And no matter which party you're supporting, that should be worrisome.

 

[36Kevon]

Its not a very popular opinion - but not all opinions are valid.

Yes - I completely understand why people think the election was stolen.  Those people that think that - are completely wrong for thinking that way, and it should, in no way, excuse their behavior.  

The people who continue to push that theory on the public - are dangers to the public.

But, everyone pushing the theory is incentivized to continue pushing the theory.  Fox News, Newsmax, OANN - they get all the clicks.  Look at how much money Trump collected for his post-presidency PAC - hard-earned money from people by pushing theories they knew, or should have known, were complete fiction.  Its embarrassing.

Until you said Fox News I couldn’t tell if you were talking about this election or 2016. 
 

 

[knowledge dropper]

I love ALL my American brothers and sisters and even those that don’t think they fall into either of those 2 groups!!!!

Let’s start building bridges together.  (Literally)
 

 

[RnR]

I love ALL my American brothers and sisters and even those that don’t think they fall into either of those 2 groups!!!!

Let’s start building bridges together.  (Literally)
 

We could use some new bridges.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I love ALL my American brothers and sisters and even those that don’t think they fall into either of those 2 groups!!!!

Let’s start building bridges together.  (Literally)

I have to admit - if Biden declares Infrastructure Week on January 21, that should give everyone a chance to lay down all the pitchforks and torches, and just appreciate the humor of it all!

 

[AAABatteries]

Now, for the other side of that: I also think we should take election integrity seriously. That means one vote for one person. Each person who votes should be able to prove that they are legally entitled to a vote in order to cast it. And I believe we should make every effort to verify these facts on site and in real time. In the light of day for everyone to see.

What we saw this year does not resemble any of that. And no matter which party you're supporting, that should be worrisome.

Surely you can see how folks making this the focal point of their Stop the Steal theory comes across as disingenuous and self-serving, right?  If people are truly concerned about that then they should have rioted in 2016 too.  They didn't because their guy won.  The did this time because their guy lost. 

 

[RnR]

Nobody should care what someone who decision makes based on feelings thinks - regardless of where they fall on the political spectrum. 

I mean, I guess.

Because of the changes they made, there's nothing you can legally challenge about piling up bushels of semi-verified mail-in ballots and counting them in the darkness of night. But are people wrong to feel like that's a questionable way to conduct business in a national election?

I think that's kinda where we're at with all this, even if Trump and many of his supporters are unable to articulate their feelings that way.

 

[BladeRunner]

I love ALL my American brothers and sisters and even those that don’t think they fall into either of those 2 groups!!!!

Let’s start building bridges together.  (Literally)
 

We're going to need a bigger bridge.

 

[RnR]

Surely you can see how folks making this the focal point of their Stop the Steal theory comes across as disingenuous and self-serving, right?  If people are truly concerned about that then they should have rioted in 2016 too.  They didn't because their guy won.  The did this time because their guy lost. 

I'm willing to hear it out. Refresh my memory what election processes were altered in the 2016 election that could have potentially changed the outcome. Or are we referring specifically to the social media/Russian interference debate?

 

[The Commish]

Stolen is probably a bad word. Manipulated is a very applicable word.

Maybe next time we'll just decide sometime in June 2024 to require a social security card at polls and in-person voting only. Sound good?

I think this might be a good time to remind everyone that all the states that were making changes to their voting procedures had started making these changes before COVID was even a thing.  Sorry, not all, there were two (maybe a third...can't remember for sure) that made changes post COVID existence.  The rest, the changes were in the works.  That's their process.  So yes, if those states use that same process to say they require SSN and in person voting only, then that would be their decision.  

 

[AAABatteries]

I'm willing to hear it out. Refresh my memory what election processes were altered in the 2016 election that could have potentially changed the outcome. Or are we referring specifically to the social media/Russian interference debate?

You said "I also think we should take election integrity seriously. That means one vote for one person. Each person who votes should be able to prove that they are legally entitled to a vote in order to cast it. And I believe we should make every effort to verify these facts on site and in real time. In the light of day for everyone to see."

That applies to 2016 and 2020.

 

[BladeRunner]

Surely you can see how folks making this the focal point of their Stop the Steal theory comes across as disingenuous and self-serving, right?  If people are truly concerned about that then they should have rioted in 2016 too.  They didn't because their guy won.  The did this time because their guy lost. 

If you don't think the mail in voting proponents and mass mailing ballots doesn't come across as disingenuous and self-serving too I don't know what to tell you.  Don't tell me Democrats are just simply angels on high just wanting the best.  OF COURSE they want to manipulate the system to allow them to win elections.  That's why they don't want ANY integrity/security restrictions on voting.

This is ridiculous that you excoriate Conservatives but give Dems a free pass on "self serving" voting laws.  That's why we can't have honest discussions because you guys don't want to understand the other side.

 

[Amused to Death]

Its not a very popular opinion - but not all opinions are valid.

Yes - I completely understand why people think the election was stolen.  Those people that think that - are completely wrong for thinking that way, and it should, in no way, excuse their behavior.  

The people who continue to push that theory on the public - are dangers to the public.

But, everyone pushing the theory is incentivized to continue pushing the theory.  Fox News, Newsmax, OANN - they get all the clicks.  Look at how much money Trump collected for his post-presidency PAC - hard-earned money from people by pushing theories they knew, or should have known, were complete fiction.  Its embarrassing.

Its the only reason the events of January 6th happened. And its why I believe certain people and news entertainment entities are at least partly to blame. Everyone knew what they were selling was false and created the narrative for personal gain. Zero evidence to the contrary. 

 

[RnR]

You said "I also think we should take election integrity seriously. That means one vote for one person. Each person who votes should be able to prove that they are legally entitled to a vote in order to cast it. And I believe we should make every effort to verify these facts on site and in real time. In the light of day for everyone to see."

That applies to 2016 and 2020.

Of course it does.

 

[RnR]

I think this might be a good time to remind everyone that all the states that were making changes to their voting procedures had started making these changes before COVID was even a thing.  Sorry, not all, there were two (maybe a third...can't remember for sure) that made changes post COVID existence.  The rest, the changes were in the works.  That's their process.  So yes, if those states use that same process to say they require SSN and in person voting only, then that would be their decision.  

There would be a different group of people rioting in the streets over voter suppression.

Which is my point. Until we get to a process where one side doesn't feel like the other is manipulating the election with below-the-table tactics, we're going to continue to see unrest during election season.

 

[BladeRunner]

There would be a different group of people rioting in the streets over voter suppression.

Which is my point. Until we get to a process where one side doesn't feel like the other is manipulating the election with below-the-table tactics, we're going to continue to see unrest during election season.

Exactly.  I don't think he understands that people wouldn't just sit back and allow that to happen.  You damn well better believe the Democrats would be in the streets rioting, and not just BLM/Antifa.

OF COURSE they would  be screaming "Voter Suppression!".  They do it now when legislatures even CONSIDER any type of security around voting, much less signing any into law.

We can't even have honest discussions - this is what really pisses me off.  I can understand BOTH sides of the argument.  Why can't anyone else?  Understanding both sides allows you to build bridges.  Or at least getting people to the table.  It seems like a lot of people DON'T want that.

 

[Summer Wheat]

It's not just the last year...which is the point I made specifically.

I agree, this has been going on a long time.

 

[Rich Conway]

Exactly.  I don't think he understands that people wouldn't just sit back and allow that to happen.  You damn well better believe the Democrats would be in the streets rioting, and not just BLM/Antifa.

OF COURSE they would  be screaming "Voter Suppression!".  They do it now when legislatures even CONSIDER any type of security around voting, much less signing any into law.

We can't even have honest discussions - this is what really pisses me off.  I can understand BOTH sides of the argument.  Why can't anyone else?  Understanding both sides allows you to build bridges.  Or at least getting people to the table.  It seems like a lot of people DON'T want that.

There's a difference between "I believe the changes made to election laws during the spring/summer of 2020 are inappropriate" and "Democrats cheated and Dominion machines altered votes!!!1!!".  One is a legitimate belief and can be addressed via our existing political structure.  One is a fiction created out of thin air and simply cannot be given credence.

 

[36Kevon]

I think this might be a good time to remind everyone that all the states that were making changes to their voting procedures had started making these changes before COVID was even a thing.  Sorry, not all, there were two (maybe a third...can't remember for sure) that made changes post COVID existence.  The rest, the changes were in the works.  That's their process.  So yes, if those states use that same process to say they require SSN and in person voting only, then that would be their decision.  

Not true. 11 out of the 16 excuse states for absentee ballots changed the rules to allow fear of Covid as an excuse. 

 

[BladeRunner]

There's a difference between "I believe the changes made to election laws during the spring/summer of 2020 are inappropriate" and "Democrats cheated and Dominion machines altered votes!!!1!!".  One is a legitimate belief and can be addressed via our existing political structure.  One is a fiction created out of thin air and simply cannot be given credence.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but "manipulated" is the operative word here.  Both sides are doing it.  While I don't believe the election was stolen, I do believe there were enough questions that we should at least take a look at our voting laws and the security/integrity around them.  In NO WAY should ballot counters be cheering when GOP observers are kicked out of the room.  InNO WAY should ballots be coming from underneath desks when people leave.  In NO WAY should laws be changed right before an election.

What saddens me is I understand you used to be a conservative. What happened that you've fallen so far? It can't just be Trump because he's one and done.  You can't even understand conservatives anymore?  After being a conservative yourself for how long?  Wut?

 

[Insein]

You said "I also think we should take election integrity seriously. That means one vote for one person. Each person who votes should be able to prove that they are legally entitled to a vote in order to cast it. And I believe we should make every effort to verify these facts on site and in real time. In the light of day for everyone to see."

That applies to 2016 and 2020.

This should apply to every election. 

 

[36Kevon]

Exactly.  I don't think he understands that people wouldn't just sit back and allow that to happen.  You damn well better believe the Democrats would be in the streets rioting, and not just BLM/Antifa.

OF COURSE they would  be screaming "Voter Suppression!".  They do it now when legislatures even CONSIDER any type of security around voting, much less signing any into law.

We can't even have honest discussions - this is what really pisses me off.  I can understand BOTH sides of the argument.  Why can't anyone else?  Understanding both sides allows you to build bridges.  Or at least getting people to the table.  It seems like a lot of people DON'T want that.

Same reason you couldn’t have an honest conversation with a Qanon person. These guys are literally the antithesis of whom they despise.  

 

[AAABatteries]

This should apply to every election. 

But yet I doubt anybody at the Capitol yesterday protested in 2016 - they didn't care then because their guy won.  That's why it's disingenuous and self-serving.  Feel free to address it after Jan. 20th - I'm onboard.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but "manipulated" is the operative word here.  Both sides are doing it.  While I don't believe the election was stolen, I do believe there were enough questions that we should at least take a look at our voting laws and the security/integrity around them.  In NO WAY should ballot counters be cheering when GOP observers are kicked out of the room.  I NO WAY should ballots be coming from underneath desks when people leave.  In NO WAY should laws be changed right before an election.

What saddens me is I understand you used to be a conservative. What happened that you've fallen so far? It can't just be Trump because he's one and done.  You can't even understand conservatives anymore?  After being a conservative yourself for how long?  Wut?

If we as a country are to move forward conservatives must do like Amash and turn their backs on what the republican party has become. 

 

[36Kevon]

There's a difference between "I believe the changes made to election laws during the spring/summer of 2020 are inappropriate" and "Democrats cheated and Dominion machines altered votes!!!1!!".  One is a legitimate belief and can be addressed via our existing political structure.  One is a fiction created out of thin air and simply cannot be given credence.

No. Any hypothesis can be put to the test. Even ones you don’t like. 

 

[BladeRunner]

If we as a country are to move forward conservatives must do like Amash and turn their backs on what the republican party has become. 

I'm not liking the Democrat Party either.  It gets more socialist members every election.  We going to turn our backs on that?

It's not just conservatives who need to do the right thing.  BOTH sides must make some changes.