Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Then why do folks on this board engage and reply to it all day every day and get personal against the poster? Why not post the "truth" and move along?
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A Plea To Please Be Excellent To Each Other (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
- Status
mr roboto
Footballguy
I don’t know but it’s actually frustrating to try and follow a story and have someone lying in the thread.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Probably because those posting falsehoods are doing it in a manner that falsely — and I suspect knowingly —maligns individuals. All too many people have abandoned facts, reality to promote their racist, bigoted, often criminal and twisted worldview. It’s utterly disgusting. I don’t know how to help correct it. But clearly posting facts and truth is inadequate.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
And why should it be up to others to ignore lies and disinformation rather than clearly pointing out what is false? And questioning sources and asking for people to back up their claims?
Often times...people throw up more of a stink about replying to the lies...than they do having a problem with the lies in the first place. Which always seems odd to me.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
I don't disagree but who gets to decide the truth? Most of the time people are just posting their opinions. What's more frustrating to follow? A couple of guys lying or a couple of guys lying with a couple dozen guys responding to every lie every single time?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
I mean this is the sad part of our current situation. There’s a significant portion of the country who’s understanding of the current political discussion is ‘well who really knows? It’s all just partisan hackery!’ Which then allows them to ignore actual things. And a small subset of these people KNOW IT and INTENTIONALLY spread misinformation.
Not responding to it means allowing it to potentially make the situation worse. Responding to it gives them the fuel they need. This is why disinformation campaigns are so effective.
The General
Footballguy
People posting something they think is a fact that is wrong is more frustrating.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Why it's hard to be excellent in this forum. I got Schochet in the Clinton thread telling me that I don't know why I didn't support Clinton and sexism is a possibility because it's not conscious. That's why these threads become a cesspool. Guys like schochet will post 17000 times in every thread and try to tell other posters what their beliefs and reasons are. It's impossible to have a civil conversation that way.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
This is supposed to be a discussion board, a forum for ALL ideas.
if you want Nightline, watch ABC (is it still on?)
sho nuff
Footballguy
People posting something that they know is a lie is more frustrating to me...especially when it gets called out, facts show it to be a lie...and then it gets repeated again later.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Fair enough. It's easy to ignore 1 or 2 guys. The whole thread usually gets ruined when it becomes 25 guys piling onto them to "win". And they never win anything because they never change anyone's mind it just makes the entire discussion difficult to read and follow. Anyway, I've said my opinion here and I doubt anything changes that Joe wants to change. We've gotten this plea from him several times.
timschochet
Footballguy
What I wrote is that nobody knows what all of their motivations are. That includes you, me and everyone. Sorry if you think that was some form of insult. It was not intended.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I don’t think this is true. If it is a place that embraces racism, criminality, authoritarianism, misogyny, etc in the name of “all sides” expression then it truly is a deplorable place and should be blown up.
mr roboto
Footballguy
Sure. But some ideas suck and others are wrong.
I don’t really mind the 4-5 people for whom every story will be spun hard. I’m guilty of thinking that one of these times they’ll be open to changing their minds or maybe THIS TIME it’ll be SO OBVIOUS even they have to admit it. But nope!
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Perhaps that's how you think. I didn't vote for Clinton because I believe she's dishonest and corrupt way beyond even normal politician standards. It had nothing to do with her being a woman. At all. You insinuating that it does and hiding behind "nobody knows what all of their motivations are" is bordering on a new level of crazy. Seriously, I"m done discussing it with you. Just stop labeling me and telling me what I believe (immediately after I tell you myself what I believe). If you need the last word go ahead and have it.
sho nuff
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Maybe...I have admitted it...but its not often I guess. Mainly because I try to know what I am saying is accurate before I post it. I think more should be careful and think before they hit submit. (Just as I should proofread and edit more before I click the button).
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I trust that, if this is indeed the case, and you are being genuine and consistent, you would not vote for Trump under any circumstances. And that you’ll be as vocal about it as you were with HRC.
timschochet
Footballguy
I never insinuated that you voted against Hillary because you are sexist. What I wrote, after you asserted that sexism played no role whatsoever in your decision, is that you can’t possibly know this, because nobody knows all of their motivations. Bordering on a new level of crazy? Actually the idea is over 100 years old, first popularized by Sigmund Freud. It’s the basis of psychoanalysis.
The General
Footballguy
Regarding things like Pizzagate there is no place for discussing it. I guess a post to a wiki about what it is (Don’t really see the point in that even) but I wouldn’t want my name associated with any “discussion” to its legitimacy.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
To be fair, Freud was wrong about basically everything, he just was the first to start positing a lot of the basic hypotheses.
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Henry Ford
Footballguy
By the way, the actual concerns that people brought up in that pizzagate thread that got it deleted are what then happened in DC and what we just saw happen in Wisconsin.
The vast majority of objections to that discussion were:
1. People don’t want to be on a board known for radicalizing some impressionable person to show up at a small business with a shotgun because he believes that there are children being held in sex slavery there; and
2. The Sandy Hook lawsuit against conspiracy theorists/publishers just ended in almost a half million dollar verdict. Joe and David don’t need that.
The vast majority of objections to that discussion were:
1. People don’t want to be on a board known for radicalizing some impressionable person to show up at a small business with a shotgun because he believes that there are children being held in sex slavery there; and
2. The Sandy Hook lawsuit against conspiracy theorists/publishers just ended in almost a half million dollar verdict. Joe and David don’t need that.
No, it's not. Not when someone's "idea" is to keep presenting debunked "facts" as truth.
D_House
Footballguy
I primarily lurk and think the mods generally do a fantastic job. That includes being tolerant of less than intellectually rigorous arguments and the posters that consistently use them. I think there’s value in seeing those arguments and how well they hold up to counterarguments.
I think though that of late the pendulum has swung to being a little too protective of low effort posting.
As an example, one generally high quality poster recently apparently got at least a public warning and possibly a banning (they haven’t posted since) for what can only be described as light ribbing (no name calling, overly personal criticism, or abuse of language filter) of a poster who posted “big whoop...” as a response to a reasoned argument from another poster.
The funny thing is after the ribbing the “big whoop” poster directly responded with a more detailed explanation of his thoughts. So by self policing we got better, more readable discussion.
I think though that of late the pendulum has swung to being a little too protective of low effort posting.
As an example, one generally high quality poster recently apparently got at least a public warning and possibly a banning (they haven’t posted since) for what can only be described as light ribbing (no name calling, overly personal criticism, or abuse of language filter) of a poster who posted “big whoop...” as a response to a reasoned argument from another poster.
The funny thing is after the ribbing the “big whoop” poster directly responded with a more detailed explanation of his thoughts. So by self policing we got better, more readable discussion.
sho nuff
Footballguy
We have people asking what determines truth. Alternative facts...people told to not believe what they are seeing and hearing.
This administration is proof that propaganda and disinformation works.
The Commish
Footballguy
I don't have a problem with this...not everyone is on top of everything. The worse thing is the people posting things that have been debunked a billion times and posting them as fact. In a forum of relatively well informed people, it's probably safe to simply ignore them and not give them oxygen and engage with those who might read their nonsense and believe it initially if they don't know the real facts. I think that's the approach I'm going to take from now on. There is really no point in engaging people who are purposefully spreading misinformation in this forum.
The Commish
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
Yes, people posting things that are incorrect and not acknowledging that they are incorrect after numerous posts is what I was referring to.
I assume it’s trolling / schtick at times. To me anything goes is fine but do appreciate that it would be a mess without moderation and that the owners, Joe, don’t want to have their business associated with the nonsense.
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pinkham13
Footballguy
I never said Joe was a communist. I am making a point that people are hyper sensitive to words and should be able to handle free speech whether you like what people say or not. I think it’s obvious he and the board aren’t part of the government. I never implied they were.
Diane Feinstein’s driver for 20 years was a proven communist spy and Sanders is an obvious commie along with Cortez and others. We do have a creep towards communism in this country and I can point to the NBA’s recent handling of free speech as such.
All that said yes Joe, the NBA and YouTube and other companies can do what they want. Many shut down conservative comments and speech they label bad or hateful. But should they? Communist China has free speech on lockdown. Our public forums are going that way if not already there.
I get they are privately owned forums but many are so large they are basically the virtual public square like Facebook has become. You see a lot of this censorship in colleges and government facilities where conservatives get shouted down or banned from speaking.
I don’t see a ton of that on this site so kudos to Joe and staff for that. The worst I ever experienced was a time out for subverting the curse word filter and I’ve posted plenty of team red talking points.
Still hate to see censorship or banning of any kind because it’s always better to tolerate other views even if they are misinformed or even undesirable. People have a right to be wrong in my opinion. I respect the rules on here and try not to break them.
So Joe and staff, thank you for providing what I’ve found to be an open and fun forum for football and more.
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roadkill1292
Footballguy
Let's add "communism" to the list of things conservatives don't understand.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Context bro. The person of color was spouting hate for America and what it stands for. Open borders and welfare for illegal aliens is a communist ideal not an American one.
pinkham13
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Come on man. Be better than this. You're jumping on this guy because not on your tribe but you completely ignore this garbage, which is 100% false: "Let's add "communism" to the list of things conservatives don't understand."
supermike80
Footballguy
This went well
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Not to be hypersensitive to words and what they mean and such, but what does Feinstein’s driver have to do with...anything?
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pinkham13
Footballguy
She had him on her staff for 20 years he passed info to China. Bidens gave jet technology to China. These people are aligned with Chinese communists as that’s where their loyalty lies.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
It's like all the usual suspects decided to come post like they are always right and try and shame people they don't agree with. Hard to take folks seriously.
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pinkham13
Footballguy
Yeah free everything paid for by the state isn’t communism. Universal basic income isn’t communist either right? I guess we’re calling what they propose socialism which is just a prelude to communism at best.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Nobody is claiming they’re always right. But saying Samders and AOC are commies is a false statement. And its knowingly false. And it should be called out as such.
And the comment about taking others seriously. Just stop that...it doesn't help either.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
They are actually two different things yes...so glad you now agree its not communism.
skol asylum
Footballguy
Communism is not the same as socialism. Socialism is not the same as Democratic Socialism.
One could make the argument that any government program which takes in tax revenue and spends it on the public good is a form of socialism. Our society has decided that certain things are important enough to be done at a governmental level for the benefit of all. The military and infrastructure spending are as much socialist programs as are social security, medicare, etc.
Some seem to see Socialism as inherently "evil". That's why you can never have an open and honest discussion. There is nothing "evil" about societies forming governing structures in order to collect revenue to pay for things for the common good. The free market and capitalism are great constructs as well, but there will always be a place in a highly functioning and prosperous society for government programs that the free market and capitalism can't do a good job addressing.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
So, what you’re saying is Feinstein *wanted* to coordinate with China? And she hired him for that purpose?
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t think so. Several people here, including myself, have acknowledged that we can be better and have pledged to do so.
dkp993
Footballguy
How did a please be excellent to each other thread turn into the conspiracy thread? Isn’t there one for that already?
It’s all very simple. Speak to people here how you would face to face in real world. The keyboard and anonymity has people crossing social barriers they normally wouldn’t. This certainly isn’t unique to here but it is far more pervasive elsewhere, largely to how @Joe Bryantmanages it and what others have said about the number of us that regularly frequent this place getting to know each other.
I for one certainly hope you don’t pull the plug on this social experiment. While it is no doubt a beast to manage and a no win proposition for the mods it does prove a great service imo. This place is for many what it is to me, a place to engage in uncomfortable important conversations where we may have no other outlet. The value that service provides is enormous and why we should all work hard to keep it civil and open. Add me to the list of those willing to commit to doing this to the best of my ability.
It’s all very simple. Speak to people here how you would face to face in real world. The keyboard and anonymity has people crossing social barriers they normally wouldn’t. This certainly isn’t unique to here but it is far more pervasive elsewhere, largely to how @Joe Bryantmanages it and what others have said about the number of us that regularly frequent this place getting to know each other.
I for one certainly hope you don’t pull the plug on this social experiment. While it is no doubt a beast to manage and a no win proposition for the mods it does prove a great service imo. This place is for many what it is to me, a place to engage in uncomfortable important conversations where we may have no other outlet. The value that service provides is enormous and why we should all work hard to keep it civil and open. Add me to the list of those willing to commit to doing this to the best of my ability.
identikit
Footballguy
Pledges like this aren't worth a whole lot.
Things revert back to the status quo pretty quickly.
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