A Plea To Please Be Excellent To Each Other (2 Viewers)

[The General]

Of course Trump has contributed to making the problem worse.  But I also believe Trump was in response to the problem.  

I was just speaking specifically about the posts and topics in here.

Say we get a President Biden next, it’s going to be a lot quieter in this place. Of course there will be topics to discuss but it will be a lot more normal. What we have going on right now is like some bizarre TV show.

Maybe I’m just being a prisoner of the moment but it certainly seems like this is so far out of the realm of normalcy. 

 

[The Commish]

I think this is an excellent post and you have hit on most of the ways discussions go bad. I've been guilty of a lot of these things, and I am going to renew efforts to improve. I hope you'll also try to be the change you wish to see.

If we simply focused on exterminating the "do as I say not as I do" portion of the forum, things would be immensely better around here.  If there was ever a silver bullet, that'd be it.

 

[The Commish]

I was just speaking specifically about the posts and topics in here.

Say we get a President Biden next, it’s going to be a lot quieter in this place. Of course there will be topics to discuss but it will be a lot more normal. What we have going on right now is like some bizarre TV show.

Maybe I’m just being a prisoner of the moment but it certainly seems like this is so far out of the realm of normalcy. 

It's not close to normal...you can tell by all the people trying to convince us otherwise.

 

[Lutherman2112]

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/tone-policing/

 

[John Bender]

You aren't helping the divide by saying Trump is crazy.  I realize this is on the low end on Trump insults here.  Just today, Tobias and Christo called Trump a racist and someone else compared Trump supporters to Nazi supporters.

I will try and be better towards posters and not retaliate but it difficult when any opposing view is ridiculed.  95% of the emoji reactions I get are the echo chamber lefties laughing which is straight trolling.  I guess that is cool here.

But he is a racist. We should be able to point that out when it's truly an objective fact. 

 

[Don't Noonan]

But he is a racist. We should be able to point that out when it's truly an objective fact. 

You can say it is your opinion, but it is absolutely not a fact.

 

[Christo]

You aren't helping the divide by saying Trump is crazy.  I realize this is on the low end on Trump insults here.  Just today, Tobias and Christo called Trump a racist and someone else compared Trump supporters to Nazi supporters.

I will try and be better towards posters and not retaliate but it difficult when any opposing view is ridiculed.  95% of the emoji reactions I get are the echo chamber lefties laughing which is straight trolling.  I guess that is cool here.

Where did I call him a racist today?

 

[Christo]

You can say it is your opinion, but it is absolutely not a fact.

Oh, it is a fact.

 

[Don't Noonan]

Where did I call him a racist today?

Oh, it is a fact.

 

[Christo]

I'm not denying I've called Trump a racist, he is. I was wondering when I'd done it today. I thought I'd been focused on his many other faults today.

BTW, I've been told single emoji responses are a no-no. Better watch out. I won't report you. But someone else just might.

 

[Da Guru]

I was just speaking specifically about the posts and topics in here.

Say we get a President Biden next, it’s going to be a lot quieter in this place. Of course there will be topics to discuss but it will be a lot more normal. What we have going on right now is like some bizarre TV show.

Maybe I’m just being a prisoner of the moment but it certainly seems like this is so far out of the realm of normalcy. 

It will be quieter for sure, but not sure that the POTUS position will ever be the same again after Trump and social media.

 

[jomar]

what is meant by 'intellectual bullying'?   are the smart posters allowed to correct the posters spreading false information or using faulty logic?

 

[Da Guru]

what is meant by 'intellectual bullying'?   are the smart posters allowed to correct the posters spreading false information or using faulty logic?

 Who decides if the "logic" is faulty?

 

[Jobber]

Who has two thumbs and has been drinking?

<—-This guy

 

[Summer Wheat]

 Who decides if the "logic" is faulty?

Very true as it is subjective.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

what is meant by 'intellectual bullying'?   are the smart posters allowed to correct the posters spreading false information or using faulty logic?

Here's my 2 cents.  I don't think there is an issue with correcting someone.  I think the issue becomes when correcting the same person 10 times and just arguing back and forth because everyone insists on winning a discussion.  Or repeating yourself 47 times to dominate the conversation.  If one guy says the sky is green and the other says it's red at some point just move on to another discussion.   

Also, I think insinuating one side is smart and the other isn't usually is going to kill any chance of a productive discussion anyway.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Is it a mere coincidence that this comes from Joe then shortly after the spamming began?  Last second hail mary of sorts?

What spamming?

 

[jomar]

 Who decides if the "logic" is faulty?

the sounds like a version of 'who knows'?  its normally pretty obvious and if there is a weakness in the smart poster's argument, I can guarantee it will be pointed out.

 

[Da Guru]

the sounds like a version of 'who knows'?  its normally pretty obvious and if there is a weakness in the smart poster's argument, I can guarantee it will be pointed out.

In most civil conversations that is perfectly fine. For the most part that is not the case here.

 

[jomar]

Here's my 2 cents.  I don't think there is an issue with correcting someone.  I think the issue becomes when correcting the same person 10 times and just arguing back and forth because everyone insists on winning a discussion.  Or repeating yourself 47 times to dominate the conversation.  If one guy says the sky is green and the other says it's red at some point just move on to another discussion.   

Also, I think insinuating one side is smart and the other isn't usually is going to kill any chance of a productive discussion anyway.

agreed on the first part.

I'm not insinuating anything but I when I read posters like Maurile, Henry, Christo, or SID correct someone's bad info or bad logic, I can tell which one is the 'smart' one because he will have facts and solid logic on his side.  this has nothing to do with political persuasions or 'sides' or anything other than the smart person always has facts and logic on his side.  no one is calling anyone dumb, that would be unexcelent

 

[jomar]

In most civil conversations that is perfectly fine. For the most part that is not the case here.

I have no idea what the 'that' is you're referring too.  I don't even want to ask so have a good night 

 

[Da Guru]

I have no idea what the 'that' is you're referring too.  I don't even want to ask so have a good night 

You too!! 

 

[Henry Ford]

 Who decides if the "logic" is faulty?

Philosophers. 
 

I would be happy to stand in, though I only have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I could probably get Tyler Burge to stop by. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Very true as it is subjective.

No offense but no.  If we’re actually talking about logic and not “opinion/spin/notions” it is cut and dried.  

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Philosophers. 
 

I would be happy to stand in, though I only have an undergraduate degree in philosophy. I could probably get Tyler Burge to stop by. 

I remember taking Logic in college.  I had screwed around for about 4 years at our local junior college...going full time then taking just two classes a week then night classes and back and forth.  

Finally I got my crap together and transfersed  to the prestigious local Cal State school at the ripe age of 22. I still had some lower division stuff to complete. Including  Intro to Philosophy and Logic.  I remember thinking “Damn, if I had taken these as an 18 year old things might have been different.”  

 

[mr roboto]

So now logic is something we can’t agree upon?

 

[The General]

This isn’t meant to be mean. But here’s an example why people say stuff like the President is dumb: Trump retweets bot account that replaces random words with the word “shark”

Pro-Shark media

 

[KCitons]

So now logic is something we can’t agree upon?

BREAKING - There is no logic in today's politics. 

It's a trick question.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

So now logic is something we can’t agree upon?

“In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it.”

-George Orwell “1984”

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

BREAKING - There is no logic in today's politics. 

Respectfully disagree.  

We all know that both sides/parties are and have been guilty of manipulating the truth to some degree.  That’s politics from day one.

But we now have one side (or at least very vocal side) completely perverting the idea of truth-logic-common sense.  We have transcended the basic idea of reality when it comes to politics.  And it is scary as hell.  

 

[KCitons]

Respectfully disagree.  

We all know that both sides/parties are and have been guilty of manipulating the truth to some degree.  That’s politics from day one.

But we now have one side (or at least very vocal side) completely perverting the idea of truth-logic-common sense.  We have transcended the basic idea of reality when it comes to politics.  And it is scary as hell.  

I can understand your thought process. But, I have a hard time believing that any administration (or politician) does not have skeletons in their closet. If Trump ran 99% of his presidency in a presidential manner, I dont know that he would have the heat on him that he does. He's not smart about the way he works the fringes. Makes me wonder how much a non narcissistic Potus could get away with.

Or has got away with. 

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I can understand your thought process. But, I have a hard time believing that any administration (or politician) does not have skeletons in their closet. If Trump ran 99% of his presidency in a presidential manner, I dont know that he would have the heat on him that he does. He's not smart about the way he works the fringes. Makes me wonder how much a non narcissistic Potus could get away with.

Or has got away with. 

Again...respectfully..but...

Regardless of Trump’s demeanor the ideas and policies he put forth during his run were batpoop.  They appealed to the most basic yes/no, up/down, good/bad, my way/idiot’s way style of thinking.

At the risk of someone labeling this an attack...

Trump went balls-out and tried to reach the voters that don’t understand government and politics. 

Immigration? BUILD A WALL!

Terrorism?  BAN MUSLIMS

Economy? LET CORPORATIONS RUN WILD. THEY MAKE MONEY AND EVERYONE MAKES MONEY

etc etc

Ive repeated this over and over and over but he campaigned the same way a goofball 8th grader runs for student body president.  Telling people what they want to hear, making BS promises, and relying on a lack of understanding from the populace.

 

[KCitons]

Again...respectfully..but...

Regardless of Trump’s demeanor the ideas and policies he put forth during his run were batpoop.  They appealed to the most basic yes/no, up/down, good/bad, my way/idiot’s way style of thinking.

At the risk of someone labeling this an attack...

Trump went balls-out and tried to reach the voters that don’t understand government and politics. 

Immigration? BUILD A WALL!

Terrorism?  BAN MUSLIMS

Economy? LET CORPORATIONS RUN WILD. THEY MAKE MONEY AND EVERYONE MAKES MONEY

etc etc

Ive repeated this over and over and over but he campaigned the same way a goofball 8th grader runs for student body president.  Telling people what they want to hear, making BS promises, and relying on a lack of understanding from the populace.

I'm not disagreeing with your examples. What I'm saying is, remove those things from the equation. Would he still have a target on his back? 

When I think about the Clinton/Lewinski scandal, I wonder how JFK got away with the affairs he had?

I own my stance. I dont trust our politicians. I've been fooled too many times by what I thought was an upstanding person. Only to see them head to jail for doing things under the table or texting pictures of their junk to women. Trust is earned and it's just not happening. Those days are gone.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

 wonder how JFK got away with the affairs he had?

The ladies didn't blab?

 

[KCitons]

The ladies didn't blab?

Which is my point. Trump aggravates his friends. How many Preidents have secrets, but those that know aren't speaking because they have each others backs?

Trump has only his own back and has proven it over and over 

 

[Courtjester]

I don't post in this forum because it simply is not worth the effort. I would much rather stay in the FFA and discuss fun stuff. In the limited instances I have posted here, what I see happening is posters doing the following:

Post 1: Look at the dumb thing Trump just did.

Post 2: Yeah that was really stupid

Post 3: He is an idiot.

Post 4: How can Trump supporters live with themselves.

Post 5: Yeah, they are all idiots.

Seriously, look at every thread here. There isn't a page on here where people can't keep their criticism focused on the person who made the decisions--it has to go to Trump voters and then the thread deteriorates from there.

The same pattern happens in threads regarding Democrats who do dumb things.. It starts out making observations about the person responsible, but before it is said and done, it becomes an indictment of the people who supported that candidate

 

[ren hoek]

Just a few thoughts on being excellent:

- Courtesy, civility, respect, whatever you want to call it- those ideas don't often apply to people operating outside the range of permissible thought.  It was routine to discard our opinions as Russian propaganda, to call us useful idiots, to tar us as traitors etc.  We put up with that for years.  Sometimes there's just this contempt and desire to ostracize the poster that bleeds through in every post.  It's just not a good place to post subversive opinions- even when you get it right.  One guy actually talked about reporting me to federal agencies.  How's that for being excellent?  

And I think our arguments have dug in around this very inflammatory divide for a long time now, not only because of Trump, but because of these Machiavellian smear tactics that have become commonplace in American politics. Everything is a prepackaged talking point now, everything is black and white, everything is centered around Trump, there's clearcut good guys, and if you don't go along with them you're the bad guy (or so it seems anyway).  I think people are uncomfortable posting opinions that could be perceived as being Trump-adjacent, however tenuous.  

- I still think it was superweak how Dodds was run off the board.  Dodds helped build this place. He was always a good guy on here as far as I could gather.  When that happened, it showed us that the majority can crucify people for having the wrong opinion.  Everyone got the message.  We might have found those beliefs harmful, but it didn't have to be the end of the world.  David was our friend too; he deserved a lot better than to be treated like that.  

But, to Joe's request, I'd like to apologize if I was ever rude to you.  I have no political outlet other than Twitter, this place, and my gf, so you people are just gonna have to deal with it.  Thanks.  

 

[Henry Ford]

The ladies didn't blab?

Sure they did.  He didn’t get away with them, society just didn’t care then. 

 

[John Bender]

You can say it is your opinion, but it is absolutely not a fact.

Wrong 

 

[msommer]

Wrong 

Isn't the technical term "falsehood"?

 

[jon_mx]

It could also be considered a fact that people who believe in affirmative action are racists.  What is really the point of putting labels on people?  To belittle them in the hope you can shame them to come around to your beliefs?  How has that been working? 

Does it foster people being excellent to each other or does it contribute to the divisive culture we now live in?  It would be more excellent to limit those such labels to specific statements or policies and not the person or group.  But I am afraid we are probably stuck in this endless loop of labeling people commies and racists and not really getting anywhere.

 

[Zow]

I also think society is taking a bad turn when we ban people for talking. You may not like what someone says but you can choose to ignore them. Shutting down free speech is the first step to communism.

Joe Bryant and this board are not, to the best of my knowledge, part of or associated with the government in any way. Joe can do whatever he wants and it does not impact “free speech” or bring us closer to communism. 

 

[Da Guru]

The ladies didn't blab?

There was no $$$$$ in blabbing in the early 60s.  No TMZ, no social media, no text message to trace, no Gloria Alldred, the women back then would have been scorned for trying to discredit a popular POTUS in JFK.  Different ballgame today.

 

[Terminalxylem]

That is part of the problem, it is too much of a niche which does it's best to exclude.  It is not wonderful for someone to come in and immediately be accused of being a troll or an alias or a parrot.   

As a relatively new poster, I’ve experienced this a bit. When I’ve expressed some opinions outside the footballguys mainstream,  people have been quick to question the veracity of my post - assuming it’s “schtick” (my least favorite jab), trolling or anonymous internet bravado. Overall it’s better than other places I’ve posted, but people should try a little harder to be open-minded, myself included.

 

[Summer Wheat]

As a relatively new poster, I’ve experienced this a bit. When I’ve expressed some opinions outside the footballguys mainstream,  people have been quick to question the veracity of my post - assuming it’s “schtick” (my least favorite jab), trolling or anonymous internet bravado. Overall it’s better than other places I’ve posted, but people should try a little harder to be open-minded, myself included.

Go in the FFA, I found it is much friendlier and more inclusive.  PSF is a tough place to fit in as there are very few people there every day battling it out. Every time I go in there it is the same 15-20 people so it makes it difficult. And I am mostly on their side as well so I get it if you disagree at all. I guess that it is why they separated the two forums to begin with as the FFA was being ruined. Nobody really acts hostile in the FFA.

 

[Ilov80s]

There was no $$$$$ in blabbing in the early 60s.  No TMZ, no social media, no text message to trace, no Gloria Alldred, the women back then would have been scorned for trying to discredit a popular POTUS in JFK.  Different ballgame today.

Yeah, reporters back then there were definite arrangements between stars, politicians and the press about what would get covered and what wouldn't. The President having an affair would have been squashed immediately. Lots of people obviously knew about it but that just wasn't something that was getting covered in any respectable source. 

 

[knowledge dropper]

- I still think it was superweak how Dodds was run off the board.  Dodds helped build this place. He was always a good guy on here as far as I could gather.  When that happened, it showed us that the majority can crucify people for having the wrong opinion.  Everyone got the message.  We might have found those beliefs harmful, but it didn't have to be the end of the world.  David was our friend too; he deserved a lot better than to be treated like that.  

This was truly the Jump the Shark moment for the PSF.  If the mob can get away with treating an owner in that manner, then what chance do regular guys have?  

 

[sho nuff]

This was truly the Jump the Shark moment for the PSF.  If the mob can get away with treating an owner in that manner, then what chance do regular guys have?  

Dont push dangerous bogus conspiracy theories if you are representing a brand?
 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Go in the FFA, I found it is much friendlier and more inclusive.  PSF is a tough place to fit in as there are very few people there every day battling it out. Every time I go in there it is the same 15-20 people so it makes it difficult. And I am mostly on their side as well so I get it if you disagree at all. I guess that it is why they separated the two forums to begin with as the FFA was being ruined. Nobody really acts hostile in the FFA.

I mostly post in the FFA. It's certainly less divisive than this forum, but the same stuff occurs there to a lesser extent. Nothing terrible, but not excellent either.

 

[mr roboto]

This was truly the Jump the Shark moment for the PSF.  If the mob can get away with treating an owner in that manner, then what chance do regular guys have?  

I mean Dodds went nuts. He bought into QAnon and Pizzagate. 
 

Look - there HAS TO be a differentiation made between legitimate disagreements and people who don’t follow basic logic and don’t actually understand what’s happening and continually post proven falsehoods. Those latter folks do t deserve to be listened to.