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Agree or Disagree: "The United States is still the greatest country in the history of human civilization"? (1 Viewer)

Agree or Disagree: "The United States is still the greatest country in the history of human civiliz


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We have different cultures WITHIN our borders already. I mean, if you spent a week moving between San Fran, Louisiana's swampland, Boston Harbor, Fargo, Miami, West Virginia's coal country, and Buffalo... your head would be swimming. Every place would not only look distinctly different, they have their own cultures specific to these areas too. People speak differently, have different behaviors. Heck, we can't even decide what to call fizzy cola drinks because it's either soda, or pop, or "coke" universally applied to everything with bubbles.
No kidding.

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how Americans never travel outside our borders have actually travelled extensively within our own borders.

So rich with geographic and cultural diversity within one country.

 
No kidding.

I'm wondering if any of the people complaining about how Americans never travel outside our borders have actually travelled extensively within our own borders.

So rich with geographic and cultural diversity within one country.
Like I pointed above, IMO it's not quite the same.  We sill have the same infrastructure and way of doing things.   I think it's important to see and experience how different countries might do things.   

 
Like I pointed above, IMO it's not quite the same.  We sill have the same infrastructure and way of doing things.   I think it's important to see and experience how different countries might do things.   
Of course it's not the same as traveling outside. But nor can anyone gain a true appreciation of all we have to offer until you actually see/live throughout the whole country.

And no we don't all "have the same way of doing things." For one tiny example, I didn't realize until living in Atlanta that the definition of "iced tea" in the South meant having three pounds of sugar in it. 😉

 
Yes, we have cultural diversity which is a big plus.   But it's still largely within the framework of our country, rules, ways we do things.   The reason I advocate for people traveling more, is you get to experience other ways of doing things, other media, whatever - IMO that makes a big difference.  


Of course. I think everyone agrees travel is great.

My point was we're a pretty large country with lots of different cultures within our own country. And that's a big plus.

On the bigger point, I think it's good to experience new cultures both inside and outside our country. 

 
Nothing that predates it or is based on natural rights. 

It would really depend upon your criteria. When it comes to negative rights (things that government can't transgress upon) the United States has unparalleled restraint on government. From speech (which our friends to the North do not have) to religion to other rights codified in the Bill of Rights, I can think of almost no other country that guarantees freedom from majoritarian governance than the United States. Of course, there are comparable charters in the West and in EU countries, but nothing really touches the breadth and scope of our rights. The only glaring example I can think of that contravenes this is EU privacy law, which seems vastly superior to ours. 

If you're arguing for positive rights, then other countries have a case to be made (even possibly as shining examples), but strictly negative rights? It's the US of A. And that's not chauvinism. In fact, I'm rarely chauvinistic nor patriotic. I'm talking strictly things the government cannot do and that natural rights guarantee in America. 
I think the discussion of negative vs. positive rights is an important one. There is a segment of American society that is of the opinion that the United States is not great because its government is not mandated to do more for its citizens. There is another segment that is of the opinion that the United States is great because it specifically outlines what it cannot do to its citizens. Of course there is a spectrum that lies in between, and there have been gross transgressions as well as incredible liberations at times throughout our both imperfect but blessed history, but I think the difference between those two opinions is a main source of the discord in our society.

 
I think the discussion of negative vs. positive rights is an important one. There is a segment of American society that is of the opinion that the United States is not great because its government is not mandated to do more for its citizens. There is another segment that is of the opinion that the United States is great because it specifically outlines what it cannot do to its citizens. Of course there is a spectrum that lies in between, and there have been gross transgressions as well as incredible liberations at times throughout our both imperfect but blessed history, but I think the difference between those two opinions is a main source of the discord in our society.


I wish more people saw it this way as different groups hoping and striving for different ways to do things.

Instead of what it seems we get too much of with "that group is evil if they want something different than my group".

 
Not today, no.  It’s amazing how it went so bad so fast.


Curious as to what in your life is so different from 5-10 years ago that makes you say this. 

I'm guess it's nebulous stuff like "cancel culture" or "menstruating men" that you only see online and not anything tangible in your day to day real life.  

 
cockroach said:
Curious as to what in your life is so different from 5-10 years ago that makes you say this. 

I'm guess it's nebulous stuff like "cancel culture" or "menstruating men" that you only see online and not anything tangible in your day to day real life.  
There have been some direct, tangible effects.  A transgender track runner negatively impacted my son’s first g/f and track team.  Probably cost her some scholarship money.  I work in insurance and The Summer of Love cost me some serious bonus money.  My son’s track team at college was cut due to a bogus Title 9 issue.  Other things as well, though not as provable.

 
The idea of America, and what that used to represent, along with its contribution (leadership is probably a better word) to preserving western liberalism and democracy will, in my mind always make it the greatest civilization we have ever seen.

America the reality in 2022 is something different though.  The gun violence problem, and America's refusal to deal with it, alone keeps it out of the running.  America is also no longer considered a full democracy (it is now being classified as a "flawed democracy"), which is also disqualifying imo.

 
The idea of America, and what that used to represent, along with its contribution (leadership is probably a better word) to preserving western liberalism and democracy will, in my mind always make it the greatest civilization we have ever seen.

America the reality in 2022 is something different though.  The gun violence problem, and America's refusal to deal with it, alone keeps it out of the running.  America is also no longer considered a full democracy (it is now being classified as a "flawed democracy"), which is also disqualifying imo.
America has never been considered a full democracy. If you believe a constitutional republic is a flawed democracy, I suppose that's a take, but an incorrect one IMO...

 
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 No one is denying that the American experiment is a good one, possibly one of the greatest ones in history, but the concept of "a more perfect union" means that things still need to be worked on. The fact some have the "Love it or leave it" mentality is so silly that I have no idea what to do with it.

Other countries have better records on Literacy, Gun Violence, Slavery, Healthcare, Social safety net, etc. while many have much worse.  Also, our "manifest destiny" and "nation building" likely needs to go under the microscope a little as well.

Right now, I'm not sure I would want to live anywhere else (maybe Canada if it was warmer), but the preponderance of gun violence and the erosion of our rights coupled with the rise of the Alt right does have me (A jew) concerned that a "backup plan" may be needed in the next 10-30 years. (much like my grandparents from Europe and my Parents from Cuba)

 
America has never been considered a full democracy. If you believe a constitutional republic is a flawed democracy, I suppose that's a take, but an incorrect one IMO...
this is not correct.  America has been considered a full democracy until just recently.  And a constitutional republic is a democracy.  Not sure on what basis you claim it is not?

 
I'll go back and reread the thread but it seems like most are answering the question:

Is the US currently the greatest country on earth?

vs.

Is the US the greatest country in human history?

Seems like two very different questions.

 
There have been some direct, tangible effects.  A transgender track runner negatively impacted my son’s first g/f and track team.  Probably cost her some scholarship money.  I work in insurance and The Summer of Love cost me some serious bonus money.  My son’s track team at college was cut due to a bogus Title 9 issue.  Other things as well, though not as provable.


Let's hear about the unprovable stuff as the things you listed remind me of the "first world problems" meme.  Saying "so bad so fast" for that kind of seems like histrionics.  

You're a guy that often says we're too far gone and headed for civil war.  That stuff you mentioned got you ready to take up arms? 

 
Let's hear about the unprovable stuff as the things you listed remind me of the "first world problems" meme.  Saying "so bad so fast" for that kind of seems like histrionics.  

You're a guy that often says we're too far gone and headed for civil war.  That stuff you mentioned got you ready to take up arms? 
You’ve got this all wrong.  I’m not the one protesting and torching buildings.  I’m not the one wanting to blow up the Constitution and rewrite our history.  Ask those people your questions.  

 
America has never been considered a full democracy. If you believe a constitutional republic is a flawed democracy, I suppose that's a take, but an incorrect one IMO...
If we're going to continue to insist on being a republic, we'd better make sure that we're the best, most representative republic that's ever existed. Right now, I'm mostly seeing the word "republic" used as a synonym for "using unrepresentative election practices to support minority policy making" and that won't stand up over time.

 
If we are already the greatest, why did we have to make America great again?
Being the greatest as in the best doesn't mean that we are actually great or even good.  Not my perspective but couldn't one hold a position along the lines of “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others” making the necessary substitutions?  Maybe "America is a poor example of what a country should be, except still greater than all of the others".  

I don't really know how to compare, so maybe my view is "ignorance is bliss" but America seems pretty great despite all its flaws.

 
Being the greatest as in the best doesn't mean that we are actually great or even good.  Not my perspective but couldn't one hold a position along the lines of “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others” making the necessary substitutions?  Maybe "America is a poor example of what a country should be, except still greater than all of the others".  

I don't really know how to compare, so maybe my view is "ignorance is bliss" but America seems pretty great despite all its flaws.
My absolute favorite phrase in our Constitution is “in order to form a more perfect Union.” The implication being that we are always striving to do better. That’s one of the aspects of our greatness. 

 
My absolute favorite phrase in our Constitution is “in order to form a more perfect Union.” The implication being that we are always striving to do better. That’s one of the aspects of our greatness. 
Sure.  I hope future generations of Americans scoff at our conceit that this is anywhere near "great".  (For the right reasons.)

 
There have been some direct, tangible effects.  A transgender track runner negatively impacted my son’s first g/f and track team.  Probably cost her some scholarship money.  I work in insurance and The Summer of Love cost me some serious bonus money.  My son’s track team at college was cut due to a bogus Title 9 issue.  Other things as well, though not as provable.
I thought the Clemson track team was saved? Lots of people lost out on bonuses during 2020. Summer of love is a cute way to put it. Sorry your sons girlfriend didn’t get to attend college. Do they not go off of times for track events these days, only what place you come in?  
 

Either way, thoughts and prayers. 

 
I thought the Clemson track team was saved? Lots of people lost out on bonuses during 2020. Summer of love is a cute way to put it. Sorry your sons girlfriend didn’t get to attend college. Do they not go off of times for track events these days, only what place you come in?  

Either way, thoughts and prayers. 
And I’ll keep you and @cockroachin my prayers as well.  I’m sure issues like Roe v. Wade and allowing a coach to pray on the 50 yard line have had devastating effects on your lives. 😆

 
Dems take it in the opposite direction, Biden has us needing to be saved once again. Round 2 here we come. 
So by this post, your answer is no - it's not still the greatest nation in the world?  The Dems have tanked it.   

It's just funny that when other people say things of that fashion, they are being whiny libs who always talk negatively about the country. I guess the true patriots just talk negatively all the time about Chicago, or the southern border, or our media, or woke Hollywood, or the erosion of family values, or..... 

Good things you have options, GB.  ;)  

 
So by this post, your answer is no - it's not still the greatest nation in the world?  The Dems have tanked it.   

It's just funny that when other people say things of that fashion, they are being whiny libs who always talk negatively about the country. I guess the true patriots just talk negatively all the time about Chicago, or the southern border, or our media, or woke Hollywood, or the erosion of family values, or..... 

Good things you have options, GB.  ;)  
Man, you try way too hard.  :lmao:
 

The great part about our country is they won’t let’s this failure you elected continue, the wave is coming. Buckle up. 

 
Westerberg said:
I'd have no trouble recommending someone come for a weekend to do the KY Bourbon Trail or to camp at Red River Gorge. Moving and settling down here, no.
RRG is awesome. Totally changed my opinion of Kentucky..

As for the OP, the US is the most accomplished country by far, but probably not the best place to live currently.

 
Man, you try way too hard.  :lmao:
 

The great part about our country is they won’t let’s this failure you elected continue, the wave is coming. Buckle up. 
Not as hard as you guys try to pretend that somehow only one side loves their country despite both sides having dozens of complaints and concerns about what's going on in our country.   

Buckle up for what?  :lol:   

 
The very nature of the discussion topic implies a collective insecurity complex.

Why is this a meaningful discussion?

Do people in Butswana, Peru and New Zealand wander around having debates if they are the greatest country in the history of everything?

 
Sorry friend, your blinders may tell you that but definitely not logic. 
Nothing blind about it…Trump was that bad and Biden is that bad.

This country would be better off with more like Obama from the right or left vs more of what we have had since January 2017.

 
The very nature of the discussion topic implies a collective insecurity complex.

Why is this a meaningful discussion?

Do people in Butswana, Peru and New Zealand wander around having debates if they are the greatest country in the history of everything?
They don't have to because US is the greatest, baby!!   It is known.  

 
The very nature of the discussion topic implies a collective insecurity complex.

Why is this a meaningful discussion?

Do people in Butswana, Peru and New Zealand wander around having debates if they are the greatest country in the history of everything?


Definitely not them, those people are asses.

 
from an outsider  , when I was younger  <30, I dreamt of moving to US . It had everything I wanted . 
Now there is no chance , it's so far removed from the top 20  i would pick to move to . 
Yes the US has done amazing things and was the beacon of the free world but I think its going in the wrong direction . 
Being from Canada , i feel just as free as you and I believe I have all the same rights as you without all the negatives . 
Canada isnt perfect and i also believe our political environment is slowly following the US direction of just hating the other side and not working together  which scares me 
 

 
The very nature of the discussion topic implies a collective insecurity complex.

Why is this a meaningful discussion?


:confused:

This one is easy. 

A poster said he felt "The United States is still the greatest country in the history of human civilization". 

I thought that was interesting and I was curious how others felt. It takes about 10 seconds to set up a forum poll to answer my curiosity.

So I did. 

I don't think anyone thinks it's an especially "meaningful discussion". I was curious about something and asked a question. :shrug:  

 
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To add, I thought the discussion was sincere and good and gave me some understanding on the question I was curious about. 

Which is about all I can hope for with a forum thread. 

 
I didn't run across this thread until today. It prompted me to look for other articles about this, and I found this: America, the Greatest Nation in the History of the World

That article claims to be a 100 minute read, and I skimmed a lot of it. It cites a lot of facts and data that make a compelling case that America is currently the greatest nation, which agrees with my perspective.

 
The very nature of the discussion topic implies a collective insecurity complex.

Why is this a meaningful discussion?

Do people in Butswana, Peru and New Zealand wander around having debates if they are the greatest country in the history of everything?
Because of the crucial role the U.S. has played in world history since its creation and the role it currently holds.  It is important for a population of a country to have pride in itself and a belief in its institutions.  There are lots of people Americans and otherwise that are trying to tear down the United States or change it fundamentally, with the argument that it is one of the worst countries in history.  That nonsense needs to be challenged.  

 

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