You get called a whiner cause it seems you’re constantly #####ing about the “cesspool” this place is.
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnnyU
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The Commish
Footballguy
It's tough to take seriously the "do as I say, not as I do" shtick adult to adult. You'd probably have an easier go of it if you weren't one who freely does the things you complain about ot others doing
The Commish
Footballguy
This is what I thought. Apparently we are wrong? I should probably go read up on her given she's my hero and all.fatguyinalittlecoat said:
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I completely disagree. I think you are reading very deep into it and conflating two very different situations. As jon posted from the newsweek article...timschochet said:
"Pastor Darrell Scott said the reason Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez had not tweeted about the Sri Lanka bombings was because she could not use them “as a weapon against the Trump administration.”"
I think they are trying to paint her as somebody who only cares about tragedies when she can use them politically to attack woe is me trump.
Trump only cares about Trump. So what is more logical. Him and his team making it about him or making a deeper argument about her faith?
Painting her as non christian doesnt score him points since he isnt running against her. Being a victim of another unfounded attack from the meanie liberals does.
The irony here is that now the trump admin is doing exactly what they are accusing her of. Using tragedy to score political points.
timschochet
Footballguy
It’s really not that deep an argument IMO. “Leftists aren’t real Christians”, “Leftists aren’t real patriots”, “Leftists only care about minorities and Muslims; they have nothing to say when white Christians get attacked”- these are themes that conservatives have either hinted about or argued outright for years.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Perhaps this is an outgrowth of leftist arguments that one needs to place themselves in the shoes of the other guy. To expand the conscience of the right leftist frequently ask how they would feel if X happened where traditional powers are reversed. That exercise in empathy and in learning is conflated to mean that leftist are always of those sympathies, and then, unfortunately that they have no other sympathies. This is, of course, foolish, but people are foolish.
timschochet
Footballguy
You think my argument is despicable? Am I to ignore the 8 years of attacks on Obama based on the notion that his Christianity was faked?
timschochet
Footballguy
You’re absolutely right: for years liberals and leftists have argued, mostly unfairly, that conservatives are racist, conservatives are bigots, conservatives only care about the wealthy, etc etc.
It doesn’t help matters that conservatives have managed to choose a leader that embodies all of these stereotypes.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
No spin at all. Suggesting they just gave her a little push is laughable. Fact: They had a massive recruiting campaign with over 11,000 applicants. Fact:. Her brother applied for her. Fact:. They made her adopt their full agenda. Fact:. They staffed up her campaign. Fact:. They did the fund raising for her. Fact:. They got her tons of free promotion on progressive media. Her job was to show up. Granted she probably in tune with much of their agenda, but if ever there was a puppet candidate, she would win the prize.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I must be missing something. This sounds like local politics here. I hate it personally as a rule but this is the way it works. And really usually HOR district races are just local pols getting promoted up. That wasn't Cortez but someone like her winning a city or state race district wide would not be unheard of. It's funny what conservatives focus on these days. I don't understand why the focus isn't on the demographics in the district changing. As good as her ads were and as charismatic as she was I think that was the biggest factor in her running, getting support and winning.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I'm just asking you what you meant. Do you mind responding? It's just a polite request for you to unpack it. You obviously don't have to.
- eta - To be clear I mean the earlier statement, "She is very reluctant to ever imply anything bad about people of color or POC as she likes to say. But she has no issue with saying the most condemning things about white nationals and painting with a broad brush." - Not the other stuff with the Trump comp.
- eta2 - What did you mean by "white nationals" especially? Thanks.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I would be more comfortable in saying the Republicans have chosen such a leader as I do not believe that conservatives, not true conservatives, have. That is, of course an argument which has flown. The language drifts, and the idea of conservatism has drifted quite a bit. It started when Reagan courted Falwell and his evangelicals, and there is no stopping it now, I suppose.
Frankly I am uncertain how I would label Trump's base. I have heard Nativist offered, Isolationist, xenophobes. I guess no one word label ever fully captures any political stance or movement. Maybe it comes down to just that, stance or movement. Some stand fast and some are capable or movement, intellectually I mean.
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree with you on this too. But after months of several people here angrily taking me to task for asserting that they are not true conservatives, I’ve given up. If they want the moniker that badly, let them have it.
Not really. I caveated it with if. The left always accused Reagan and W of being puppets, but they were their own men. Reagan especially crafted his own message and agenda. AOC was propped up more than any candidate in history that I am aware of.
I have never seen a candidate who was as spoon feed as AOC. I have a hard time believing that is typical .
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Actually nm, I think I read your post wrong. I thought you were saying Cortez is somehow unfair to white nationalists or was painting people as white nationalists unfairly. I guess your point is she is willing to talk about white nationalism but not extremist islamism.
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She grossly exaggerates the threat posed by nationalists and emphizes the white part, while she completely ignores the dangers posed by radical islamics and I doubt she would never even utter the phrase.
timschochet
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don’t think political groups supporting a candidate D/R is unusual. If you want a comp for someone so lacking in prior experience I’d think the tea party candidates from 2010 & 2012 would have examples. I don’t feel like exploring that because of the work involved but I remember some really raw candidates jumping in (and Dems roundly used that against the GOP).
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I’m not entirely sure why someone of Cortez’s skills and education was working as a bartender. I’ve got a friend with a Masters and he bartends but he’s also a professor at a local community college, and that’s more a statement on our educational system in LA.
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Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The house has always been raucous, unruly, and exceedingly partisan, as it was designed to be.
Where it not for the house I do not believe we would have seen the various movements towards term limitations. None of us want to limit the terms of our own folks, but the raucous, partisan nature of Electeds from other Districts, well they are tough to stomach, so we seek to limit them. The house is suppose to present a wide variety of views, and it does that well, often to my consternation, but my consternation is a feature, not a bug.
I have no doubt that is how you see it. The reality is the Justice Democrat movement is elevating the in-fighting on the left with the all or nothing mentality and is making the entire Democrat party look like loons to the moderate voters. She may get lots of followers but the Justice Democrats are a big loser in setting back their agenda.
whoknew
Footballguy
I would gladly term limit out Ted Cruz, John Cornyn, and Chip Roy.
I mean, really, its kind of a miracle any of them were elected in the first place.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Looking at this again, this is a weird way to put things. White nationalists are not nationalists who happen to be white.
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It is to point out the lack of mentioning race or ethnicity by left-leaning politicians or media when the attacker is Muslim or black or when the victim is Christian or white.
Your viewpoint is crafted by what you see reported by the media. There are over 15,000 homocides in the US, over 2,000 are gang related violence. It is very rare you hear about those. What you do hear about in lots if details of the 20-50 murders committed by anyone with any relationshipto a white nationalist group. They are tragic and in cases where there are multiple victims they should be newsworthy. But these are still lottery-winning type odds we are talking about and you face dozens of things on a daily basis which are far more threatening than any danger posed from white nationalists. We are talking about small fractions of a percent of all homicide and even those numbers are kind of dubious as they skewed by several attacks which had little or maybe even nothing to do with it.
Also, I think nationalists is a bit of a misnomer. The real issue is white supremacy. Their are lots of people of all races who are nationalists who believe in things like patriotism, protecting the borders, and just the things which makes America great. That is not the problem here. The issue here is hatred of minorities from the white supremacists. There is overlap, but they are not the same.
timschochet
Footballguy
While this is all true, it’s also true of radical Islamic terrorism. Yet that worries me too. I don’t feel like I am in personal danger from either one, but I find both to be threatening to our society - with good reason.
I find it interesting to read this sort of approach from you, given some of your paranoid reactions in the past- Ebola (“it’s in the rivers!”) comes immediately to mind.
What makes America great? We paved the way for and created the model for democracy and individual freedoms. We fought for their freedom. We provided the major advances in science and medicine. We provide opportunity for everyone to succeed. We are great now.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
We did not create the model for democracy. We provided some of the advances in medicine though Pasteur, Carrie and Christian Bernard would dispute that we were the most impactful. We provided opportunity for many, but not everyone though I think we do better on this now. We are not great now, not in my mind. We are lost and squabbling, in my mind, destructively so. Still, it is nice that you have a positive outlook.
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timschochet
Footballguy
I blame this on Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. Most mediocre dynasty in the history of sports.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I agree. I know some rank Tom Brady only behind Jesus Christ in their list of world's greatest Americans, but not me. I see the truth. I know pure evil when I see it.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
White nationalism adds the axiom that to be American or patriotic means being of a certain ethnicity or religion, or that to be great America must adhere to a certain religion or conform to a certain ethnic culture. White supremacy is about racial superiority, calling for racial or religious separation, and legal definitions recognizing that.
I say this again agreeing with your prior point about Cortez possibly ignoring islamic terrorism as a national security issue, perhaps out of PC concerns, I don't know. But as applied there is such a thing as white nationalism, there is a difference between nationalism and white nationalism and white supremacy, and no one who considers themselves a nationalist should be offended by attacks on white nationalism. I can tell you though that it is a short leap from nationalism to white nationalism and some groups and proselytizers work on that. I haven't followed Cortez but if she has said critical things about white nationalism it's not anything that mainstream Americans should have a problem with, it's something they should find common cause with.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
In my whole life, in every area work, play, friends, family, acquaintances, I have never heard anyone use the term "white nationalism" in any conversation. Never heard white supremacy either. Even when I am in large groups of all white people. never.. Only time I have every heard it is on the news or here.
Serious, has anyone heard it used other than in the news or here?
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
My first wife was a woman of color as the euphemism now goes. It was not a rare event back in those days for us to be out together and to have persons comment in negative fashions and to use inflammatory words. I heard race "traitor", "white power", "mud people", "****** lover" and others, but never white nationalism or white supremacy.
Quick story. Colorado Springs, 30 years ago. At a mall right around closing time. My wife and I walked down a spur hallway of closed stores to hit up an ATM. We needed money to buy some movie tickets, the theater then being about the only thing still open. Mixed race couples were not unknown in those parts, thanks in large part to the large military contingent, soldiers and airmen taking wives all over the world and then coming back with them. Still, it was not super common. Anyhow, three meatheads followed us down the hallway. One of them had on a white power hat. They reviled us for a bit and then one spit on my wife. That individual set off an audible alarm when he went through the plate glass window of the store we were in front of. This brought mall security, off duty C.S.P.D. I thought I was going to lose my job as a Prosecutor. In the end I did not.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
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