I don't think this has anything to do with Trump, nor is there anything Rudy can offer to get himself off the hook here. He is the big fish, so to speak.
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All Things Giuliani (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sinn Fein
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BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yeah, we all know about Ukraine - just ask Hunter Biden.
This has been a long investigation that started last year, if not earlier.
Giuliani is in a bit of hot water over his dealings with Ukraine - and I doubt this is directly related to anything Trump said or did. I think Rudy got himself in trouble all by himself here - and he is the big fish.
As numerous legal analysts have pointed out, the standard to serve a warrant on an attorney, let alone a former attorney for the President is pretty high - so that a judge is not going to sign off unless there is a compelling reason (most likely that they already have the phone logs/messages).
The fact that a grand jury is empaneled, and service of the warrant, suggests - like it did with Flynn, Cohen, Manafort, et al, that an indictment of some sort is coming.
Maybe we should be fair about this and just give Gulianni the Hunter Biden treatment?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
You keep saying "DEMOCRATS" - this is not the Dems doing this - these are the same US Attorneys who were in place under Trump.Right. If they couldn't get Trump BY GOD the Democrats are going to get someone.
I know you won't like/believe it - but Biden came out yesterday and said he found out about the raid the same time everyone else did - his directive is for DOJ to operate without influence from the White House.
Rudy f'ed up here - it remains to be seen how badly.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
The mueller investigation was a proper legitimate invest. It wasnt over pee tapes...why must you lie? Seriously...that is a completely false claim to make about the basis of the Mueller investigation.And yet we had the Mueller investigation over pee tapes, Russian hookers and collusion.
Let's not play games here. Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones so maybe next time think before you post. Just a friendly tip.
If you don’t want to play games...don’t make bogus claims and now make assertions that the democrats are doing this as revenge.
No glass houses or stones from me...and my post was spot on.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Not mention Mueller is a Republican, appointed by a Republican, and roundly praised by Republicans.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
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sho nuff
Footballguy
What he said was factual. Like literally facts.Yeah, okay.
It's sounds like you're actually trying to convince yourself.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Once again the folks screaming about LAW AND ORDER!!! don't want it applied to them. Laws and jails are reserved for "thugs" in their mind.
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Look at this guy.
Yeesh.
timschochet
Footballguy
Man I hate this sort of story. I hate that we spend so much time on these sorts of scandals, be it Giuliani, Trump, or Cuomo.
If Giuliani ends up going to prison, will that be a “win” for liberals? If he is found to be innocent of wrongdoing, is that a “victory” for conservatives? It’s all so silly.
Don’t get me wrong, I want to see all bad guys punished, be they liberal or conservative. If they did something wrong lock them up, as the Trump crowd used to shout. But damn why do we always have to make a political game out of it?
If Giuliani ends up going to prison, will that be a “win” for liberals? If he is found to be innocent of wrongdoing, is that a “victory” for conservatives? It’s all so silly.
Don’t get me wrong, I want to see all bad guys punished, be they liberal or conservative. If they did something wrong lock them up, as the Trump crowd used to shout. But damn why do we always have to make a political game out of it?
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
In what way?
Seriously: putting aside whether he deserves to go to prison (that’s a different issue) how would sending him there be beneficial for America?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Less conspiring with intelligence agencies of our adversaries?
Showing nobody is above the law?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Late 2019 you say?
Partisan witch hunt!
Be a shame if the period of surveillance included 1/6.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
whoknew
Footballguy
If he broke the law, it will be a win because it will show that rich, politically connected people aren't above the law. And that's important for our society - that at least purports to be structured on laws.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Both of these posts nailed it.
We also need to re-staff the IRS to force the uber elite to pay the estimated trillion dollars in taxes they owe.
The richest 1 percent dodge taxes on more than one-fifth of their income, study shows
timschochet
Footballguy
I agree theoretically.
But in this case it’s specifically become part of the whole Trump war. And as such there are millions of people who will never see this as anything other than part of the supposed liberal witch-hunt against Donald Trump, which means that, rather than contribute to the legitimacy of the system, this prosecution will end up doing the opposite.
Again that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. If he’s guilty of a crime, there is no choice. But I don’t think the results will be positive.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
It may be harsh...but so what? Those people will never agree with anything anyway. We are talking about something instituted during Trump’s term by his DOJ. If people refuse facts...there is nothing that will appease them...so why try?
timschochet
Footballguy
I’m not proposing we try. I don’t want to appease them either.
But if you ask me if Giuliani’s prosecution is good for America, I’m forced to say no.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
50% of Americans will pay zero attention
24.999% of Americans will say this is a good thing because he's a R
24.999% of Americans will say this is a bad thing because he's a R
.002% of Americans will actually be thoughtful about this see where the evidence leads and the charges.
It's neither all good nor all bad, IMO.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
IMO, the bolded is the larger problem. There's a significant portion of Americans who will only believe what one or two "news" organizations tell them. And their source for what's truth comes from one person. Whatever that person says is the absolute truth and no amount of facts to contrary are considered. If you disagree with their truth, you're either a RINO, part of the Deep State, or its from a lyin' news organization.
We see it here in this thread. Immediately blame the Dems no matter what the facts are.
That can't prevent us from prosecuting criminals just because it differs from their world view.
joffer
Footballguy
dozer
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Its scary how millions of people have been conditioned to believe what one person tells them. Anyone who disagrees is the enemy. Just look at how quickly they turned on Fox News when they stopped pushing the "stolen election" lie.
dozer
Footballguy
Dickies
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
Yes. I first made the exact same point about him. If he’s guilty of a crime I want him prosecuted and punished. But it’s not a good thing.
I want to win the war of ideas against the Trumpers. I don’t care about winning the war of corruption (it can’t be won anyhow, there will always be criminals on all sides.)
Dickies
Footballguy
This is a strange take. I think winning the war on corruption is one of the most important things we should undertake. How is there justice if we ignore corrupt power brokers because they have aligned with “teams” and instead focus on unconnected criminals?
Your take is like not wanting the MLB to punish the Astros for cheating for fear of upsetting Astros fans
General Malaise
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
SWC
Bromigo
its just a little corruption so its all cool who even cares about it take that to the bank bromigo
timschochet
Footballguy
I think you guys are missing my point. But thats probably my fault. I agree with all of the arguments about corruption. Commit a crime, do the time. No problem with any of that.
But this is a political forum. And when we discuss Rudy Giuliani here we’re not doing it in the context of criminal behavior; we’re doing it in the context of sides. The “liberal” side is eager to see him behind bars, not solely because he did something wrong, but because he’s Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s right hand man. The “conservative” side would love to see him proved innocent of any wrongdoing for the exact same reason. And that’s what I hate about this whole discussion.
But this is a political forum. And when we discuss Rudy Giuliani here we’re not doing it in the context of criminal behavior; we’re doing it in the context of sides. The “liberal” side is eager to see him behind bars, not solely because he did something wrong, but because he’s Rudy Giuliani, Trump’s right hand man. The “conservative” side would love to see him proved innocent of any wrongdoing for the exact same reason. And that’s what I hate about this whole discussion.
TheMagus
Footballguy
So dumb question... does anyone know for sure whether Rudy was actually officially Trump's lawyer? I know he said he was but I remember seeing reports that Trump wasn't paying him. Just curious because of some of the comments about how difficult it would be to get a search warrant.
TheMagus
Footballguy
I would think the folks on the conservative side would be relieved if Rudy was prosecuted considering he pretty much single handedly got Trump impeached twice with his craziness.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
The guy is an out of control alcoholic. Rehab would be a better place for him than jail.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Something that the complainers were never able to grasp....or have a moment of intellectual honesty and admit.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
It is. There are people out there, far too many, who truly believe in the nationalist, xenophobic populist, anti-immigrant garbage that Trump was spreading. These ideas are still with us.
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