Alright, it's official Manning is greedy (1 Viewer)

[Patoons]

I swear, this sustained whining is possibly the single funniest thing I've seen on these boards in a long time.This team is in a groove rarely seen. Their Red Zone percentage for TDs, which is what you want when you get down there, is probably close to record breaking good (I'm not looking it up). You do whatever works. Period. If this means Manning throws all day, then so be it. You don't change what works in the NFL until somebody figures out how to stop it.I'm going back to ignoring this thread, and others like it now.

I agree with the red zone comment... 71% success rate which is just ridiculous... I think they should continue throwing like that in the red zone... Edge sure as hell has issues punching it in. I just would not like to see him throw TD's when they are already killing teams.

 

[JZilla]

Calling someone a "punk" because they're about to break a record is a sign of mental weakness and a possible lack of Vitamin C.  Beware of scurvy.

It was more about running up the score I had a problem with if you read through the previous posts. I could care less if he threw every time from the 1 yard line... great he broke the record with class. Running up the score and throwing 2/3 downs blowing anohter team out is another thing...

I haven't really seen a blatant running up of the score. Teams can come back, you have to put them away. Manning's been benched late two weeks in a row now.Now the '01 Rams... THEY ran up the score.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

This is so sad...One of sports genuine good guys is having a season better than any QB EVER and some jealous fools want to badmouth him for it.  Never mind that his team is winning... This really is sickening to me.  I guess I'm not equipped with a personality or value system that is prone to belittle that which is good and successful.  Peyton Manning is the league’s best player and best spokesperson with little room to argue otherwise. Some of you need to examine your inner soul to find out what is causing such irrational hatred toward another successful human being who is doing exactly what he is paid to do…AND doing it better than any man who has tried before.

So you agree with blowing teams out just for the sake of a record? Maybe you should examine your inner sole... Thats not what a game is about... its about winning

You are an idiot.. He played the game to win and once it was out of reach he sat. Enough with this bull####.. It's amazing how dumb people can be. Let him play the game the way he does. Who are you to disagree with it??

Wow... I was giving my opinion on that I don't agree with it - Simple enough - Don't know that it calls for an attack.I do remember Marino setting the record and I do not remember it in the same fashion. I don't agree that Manning is using any sportsmanship... he didnt take himself out.. Dungy took him out - Argue all you want about this.... I agree he is a great player and will end up as one of the top 5-10 of all time

Didn't Manning just break the tie between him and Marino today for the most 4 td + games in a row? So Marino did run up some scores it seems to me. For those of you saying its about winning, well he is. How many times have you sat back and watched your favorite team start losing it in the second half and ##### at the tv about why they don't do the same thing they did in the first when they were successful? If it ain't broke don't fix it right? Did all you Harrison owners ##### when he was gunning for the reception record? That could have been deemed as hurting the team, look at what is happening this year now that the ball is being spread around. Just some food for thought I guess!

 

[General Tso]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

You are naive if you think your team lost because they whooped the other team the year before. They lost because they blew it.

Uhh, no. I was at the game on the sidelines. I heard all the trash talk back and forth. The other team was chanting "Revenge" before the game. I forgot to mention, but after that rub-it-in TD pass last year there was a big fight on the field. My team lost it's two best players during the brawl. The result was that the following week my team lost a very important game to another underdog, in large part because its two best players were on the bench.I'll say it again - I have nothing personally against Manning. I do, however, have a problem with this stupid record and his obsession with it. Football is a team sport and the ultimate objective should be for the TEAM to win. Anything that hurts the team should no be done. And what Peyton did a few weeks ago against Houston hurt his team. It gave his opponents extra motivation and created a lot of ill will. But of course, if you are into selfish individual records then that doesn't really matter does it?How sad is it that Dungy is forced to take out Manning in the 4th quarter every week because he can't trust him. Do any of you remember him doing that in the past? Even when Indy had huge leads? No - he does it now because he knows that no matter what he calls, Manning ultimately has the power to throw the ball whenever he wants. Dungy realizes what is best for his TEAM - and that is - Manning on the bench when the lead gets big. Manning proved against Houston that he cannot be trusted to do what is best for the team in such circumstances.

 

[Arm Chair Express]

How sad is it that Dungy is forced to take out Manning in the 4th quarter every week because he can't trust him. Do any of you remember him doing that in the past? Even when Indy had huge leads? No - he does it now because he knows that no matter what he calls, Manning ultimately has the power to throw the ball whenever he wants. Dungy realizes what is best for his TEAM - and that is - Manning on the bench when the lead gets big. Manning proved against Houston that he cannot be trusted to do what is best for the team in such circumstances.

Or is he taking him out so the pissed off players on the other team don't cheap shot him and take him out? Unless you have anything concrete coming from Dungy on that one, it's only your opinion.

 

[General Tso]

How sad is it that Dungy is forced to take out Manning in the 4th quarter every week because he can't trust him. Do any of you remember him doing that in the past? Even when Indy had huge leads? No - he does it now because he knows that no matter what he calls, Manning ultimately has the power to throw the ball whenever he wants. Dungy realizes what is best for his TEAM - and that is - Manning on the bench when the lead gets big. Manning proved against Houston that he cannot be trusted to do what is best for the team in such circumstances.

Or is he taking him out so the pissed off players on the other team don't cheap shot him and take him out? Unless you have anything concrete coming from Dungy on that one, it's only your opinion.

You think Dungy would disclose this even if it was the reason?? Come on....Use your mellon... Throughout his career Manning has been known for playing every down of every season - regardless of the score. Didn't he go an entire season without missing a play a couple years ago?? What - there were no blowouts in any of those games?? No - the difference this year is what occurred against Houston a couple weeks ago -which started all of this mess in the frst place. Manning had a huge lead late in the game and was throwing bombs in an obvious attempt to pad his stats. Even Joe Bryant - the biggest Manning homer of them all - acknowledged this as fact and called it "bush". Houston was furious after the game and vowed revenge. Is it coincidence that the followiing week Dungy pulls Manning in the 4th quarter? You can't cheap shot a QB if he hands the ball off and runs down the clock. No - Dungy pulled Manning - and will continue to pull him - because he doesn't want Manning audiblizing again late and ticking off his opponents and the rest of the NFL ina shameless attempt to set a personal record.If it walks like a duck......

 

[10993]

First of all, that last fella is smoking crack if he thinks Dungy is pulling Peyton in the 4th because he "can't trust him" to not throw passes. Dungy is pulling him because after the lead is in the 30s, which is what is necessary because of Indy's defense, there's no need to have Manning in there in the 4th quarter after throwing 6 TDs, and he's probably sick and tired of hearing all this whining about Manning running it up as well.It's absolutely ****ing ludicrous that you guys are whining about Manning running up the score in the NFL. It's the NFL, not a high school game. People are being paid millions of dollars to show up. If they can't man up and play the game, that's their problem. Peyton's beating up on people with three rookies as his interior linemen. I've seen the position of QB played at this level only in a few instances in history. Who throws for 6TD in 3 quarters? Only Peyton. And you guys ****ing whine about it? That's unbelievable to me.You remind me of the parents of the fat slow kids and the pansy skinny kids that used to whine on the sidelines when the Pop Warner star would rocket up the middle for 4 TDs. "Oh, why does he have to be so good? Can't he be normal, just like the other kids?" What are you people, ****ing communists? You want everyone to be the same? Well, that's not reality. Peyton's the man. He's the best. He's done more work and has more talent than any other player in the league and he is reaping the rewards right now.Indianapolis is winning, and they're scoring ****loads of touchdowns. If you had a QB throwing 6 TDs in three quarters, would you be asking him to reign it in? No, you'd ask him to do it against every opponent, in the regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowl. Peyton is the reason why Indy is the one team no one wants to play in the playoffs, because in a sport which depends almost entirely on the team, he has a greater individual impact than any other player in the game.I haven't seen one good argument against Peyton in this entire thread. The only thing bad about Peyton is that he's a bit of a chauvanist and harrassed the female trainers at Tennessee. The fact that he's better than everyone else at what he does, and that he's kicking everyone's butt because he can, is not bad. It's the best story in the NFL, if what you really care about is the game itself, and not all the bulls**** surrounding it, like fantasy football and pregame shows and commercial endorsements.Boy, Peyton's got vision, and the rest of you idiots are wearing bifocals.

 

[trader jake]

To all of you claiming that Houston will put up a fight and get "revenge" in a few weeks...put your sig where your big talk is. There will be a sig bet for that game and Peyton's performance. Houston will get whacked again and all you Manning bashers will be sporting a nice new sig line.

 

[General Tso]

No, you'd ask him to do it against every opponent, in the regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowl. Peyton is the reason why Indy is the one team no one wants to play in the playoffs, because in a sport which depends almost entirely on the team, he has a greater individual impact than any other player in the game.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: As a Pats fan, I'd like nothing more than to see Manning and his one dimensional offense in the playoffs.PATS = teamCOLTS = individualsIt's no coincidence that it is why the Pats win Superbowls while Manning watches the games from his couch every year. :rotflmao:

 

[BassNBrew]

Calling someone a "punk" because they're about to break a record is a sign of mental weakness and a possible lack of Vitamin C.  Beware of scurvy.

It was more about running up the score I had a problem with if you read through the previous posts. I could care less if he threw every time from the 1 yard line... great he broke the record with class. Running up the score and throwing 2/3 downs blowing anohter team out is another thing...

If you want to talk about playing for stats...let's talk about McMahon (yeah it's probably spelled wrong but he's not revelant in the NFL to bother with it) calling a timeout with 12 seconds left when down 41-9. That was more bush league then anything Manning has done in his life.

 

[BassNBrew]

No, you'd ask him to do it against every opponent, in the regular season, playoffs, and Super Bowl. Peyton is the reason why Indy is the one team no one wants to play in the playoffs, because in a sport which depends almost entirely on the team, he has a greater individual impact than any other player in the game.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: As a Pats fan, I'd like nothing more than to see Manning and his one dimensional offense in the playoffs.PATS = teamCOLTS = individualsIt's no coincidence that it is why the Pats win Superbowls while Manning watches the games from his couch every year. :rotflmao:

You mean like your high school team???

 

[BassNBrew]

I still waiting for a reply regarding the fact that net points is a seeding tiebreaker. If you're not supposed to score, then the NFL should remove that from the criteria and add most rushing plays run in the 4th quarter.Enough with the whining...I have a very simple 2 step plan to make you happy.A) Draft manning next year.B) Bet on the Colts each week, especially v. crappy teams.

 

[ko-jack]

This is completely ridiculous. Manning is a pro athlete. He is doing his job, THROWING THE FOOTBALL. If Edge was going for the rushing TD record and kept breaking 50 yard runs when the Colts were up by 4 TDs, would anyone have a problem with that?

yea

 

[General Tso]

I still waiting for a reply regarding the fact that net points is a seeding tiebreaker. If you're not supposed to score, then the NFL should remove that from the criteria and add most rushing plays run in the 4th quarter.

Enough with the whining...I have a very simple 2 step plan to make you happy.

A) Draft manning next year.

B) Bet on the Colts each week, especially v. crappy teams.

Stop throwing me softballs...There are 11 seeding tie breakers. Net points only comes into play after the first 8 tie breakers. It is a very rare occurrence when net points has come into play.

 

[BassNBrew]

I still waiting for a reply regarding the fact that net points is a seeding tiebreaker. If you're not supposed to score, then the NFL should remove that from the criteria and add most rushing plays run in the 4th quarter.

Enough with the whining...I have a very simple 2 step plan to make you happy.

A) Draft manning next year.

B) Bet on the Colts each week, especially v. crappy teams.

Stop throwing me softballs...There are 11 seeding tie breakers. Net points only comes into play after the first 8 tie breakers. It is a very rare occurrence when net points has come into play.

And when that rare occurence happens and your team sit at home during the post season or has to travel, will you be proud of your "sportsmanship"? Here's a novel concept, maybe teams should play some defense v. the Colts.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

A football game is 60 minutes long. If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem. The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few. If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

 

[Atomic Punk]

Not arguing one way or the other on the Manning issue but I'm fairly certain that net points hase never been used as a tie breaker. To use that as rationale for running up the score is weak.

 

[BassNBrew]

Not arguing one way or the other on the Manning issue but I'm fairly certain that net points hase never been used as a tie breaker. To use that as rationale for running up the score is weak.

I'm fairly certain that the tiebreakers I quoted were directly from www.nfl.com and not something I pulled out of my ###.

 

[BassNBrew]

Not arguing one way or the other on the Manning issue but I'm fairly certain that net points hase never been used as a tie breaker. To use that as rationale for running up the score is weak.

Just re-read your post and it can be interepreted two different ways...anyway, back in the 70's the Bears need to beat the Cardinals by 30-40+ in the last week and for Dallas to win to make the playoffs. It was halarious watching the Bear's pour it on.

 

[Boulder]

It takes a little man to spit at a greater man's accomplishments. Arm chair fantasy haters suck.

 

[General Tso]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

 

[trader jake]

Although I disagree with your main point General Tso - great post.(except the kids part at the end)

 

[jamil]

this is stupid. everybody here complains that teams shouldnt sit on the lead. and peyton isnt. stop

 

[BassNBrew]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Tell it to the Houston Oilers and Frank Reich. Manning's playing within the rules and not showboating. Why don't you go to work on TO first.

 

[Madison029]

why b**** about about manning throwing so many tds? Marino did it and all those the internet was exactly as it is now people didnt neccessarily whine about him throwing for 48. Is it because Manning is putting up numbers and you are facing him? did u trade him away for Culpepper earlier in the season? just stop and let the guy do his job

 

[General Tso]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Tell it to the Houston Oilers and Frank Reich. Manning's playing within the rules and not showboating. Why don't you go to work on TO first.

You're right. Every 15 or 20 years there's an example of an incredible comeback. Far more often, however, there are examples of teams using bulletin board material and motivation from a prior blowout to pull off an upset the next time the two teams meet.I guess the true test of this issue is how Manning and the Colts do down the stretch and in the playoffs. When they face a team like the Pats that will do everything in their power to shut down Manning in the red zone - will Dungy and the Indy fans wonder if they would have been better off trying a few more running plays and developing that part of their game in the regular season? Remember - the Colts won't be playing teams like Houston, Chicago and Detroit in the playoffs. I'm not sure you want the Indy Defense on the field a lot during the postseason (see KC last year).

 

[BassNBrew]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Tell it to the Houston Oilers and Frank Reich. Manning's playing within the rules and not showboating. Why don't you go to work on TO first.

You're right. Every 15 or 20 years there's an example of an incredible comeback. Far more often, however, there are examples of teams using bulletin board material and motivation from a prior blowout to pull off an upset the next time the two teams meet.I guess the true test of this issue is how Manning and the Colts do down the stretch and in the playoffs. When they face a team like the Pats that will do everything in their power to shut down Manning in the red zone - will Dungy and the Indy fans wonder if they would have been better off trying a few more running plays and developing that part of their game in the regular season? Remember - the Colts won't be playing teams like Houston, Chicago and Detroit in the playoffs. I'm not sure you want the Indy Defense on the field a lot during the postseason (see KC last year).

Even one game pissed away is too many. Considering Staley and Dillon have both been hurt this year, keeping Edge fresh may be a smart move. With his ypc near 5, how much more development is needed.Seriously, would you be happy if they pulled Manning at the half rather then the end of the 3rd???

 

[Scott Utah Boyles]

As long as they're scoring TD's on those pass plays, I don't see a problem. I do think it will come back to bite them in the playoffs, but only because their defense can't stop their opponents either - I could see the Pats, Steelers and Broncos taking the Colts out in the playoffs. Of course, I could see it playing a factor in Edgerrin James leaving in free agency after the season, probably going to Miami.Manning drives me nuts with his constant audibling, and he's not one of my favorite players b/c he comes off as whining and blaming his receivers when something goes wrong (I felt the same way about Marino). But I have to admit that the commercial with him chanting "Let's go insurance adjusters, let's go!" and "Cut That Meat! Cut That Meat!" is pretty damn hilarious.

 

[Mikeyburns]

Guys the real point here is that Brett Favre has been throwing inside the 5 his whole career. Bubba Franks has made a living on play action from the 1. Just because he aint good enough to have the season peyton is having, you dont have to hate on Manning.I dont understand it, Manning is selfish but Favre is god? Favre's personal stories are the biggest drama since young and the restless!

 

[Doug Drinen]

In 2nd half while leading:

Culpepper - 70 attempts, 8 TD

McNabb - 125 attempts, 7 TD

Brees - 76 attempts, 6 TD

Manning - 63 attempts, 6 TD (in one extra game)

In 4th quarter while leading:

McNabb - 56 attempts, 4 TD

Culpepper - 36 attempts, 4 TD

...

Manning - 18 attempts, 0 TD

Percentage of plays which are pass plays, when leading in the 4th quarter

Eagles - 48%

Patriots - 34%

Colts* - 26%

Steelers - 19%

* - Doesn't count today's game. Percentage would be lower if it did.

 

[yetiknight]

What in the world is wrong with scoring 40 points in the first three quarters of every game? It is hard to accuse a team of running up the score when they never score in the fourth quarter.LOL at you guys calling the Colts one-dimensional. What a lousy running game. Edge just happens to be leading the NFL in rushing as of tonight. Why are you so determined to find something wrong with the Colts. That offense is playing on a level that has never been seen.The sad truth is that if the defense doesn't step up then Manning doesn't let up. This team is about to score nearly 600 points in this season. And they haven't scored ONE point on offense during the fourth quarter of the last three games.

 

[my man otis]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Excellent, excellent post.

 

[my man otis]

In 2nd half while leading:

Culpepper - 70 attempts, 8 TD

McNabb - 125 attempts, 7 TD

Brees - 76 attempts, 6 TD

Manning - 63 attempts, 6 TD  (in one extra game)

In 4th quarter while leading:

McNabb - 56 attempts, 4 TD

Culpepper - 36 attempts, 4 TD

...

Manning - 18 attempts, 0 TD

Percentage of plays which are pass plays, when leading in the 4th quarter

Eagles - 48%

Patriots - 34%

Colts* - 26%

Steelers - 19%

* - Doesn't count today's game.  Percentage would be lower if it did.

Leading by any amount?If you rerun the #s with the contraint of leading by 14+ or 20+, etc, do the numbers look the same?

 

[Muntucky Maverick]

I swear, this sustained whining is possibly the single funniest thing I've seen on these boards in a long time.

I totally agree. I love watching these idiots try to explain their jealous, mis-guided logic. It's pathetic, they're pathetic and I'm Lovin it!

 

[my man otis]

I swear, this sustained whining is possibly the single funniest thing I've seen on these boards in a long time.

I totally agree. I love watching these idiots try to explain their jealous, mis-guided logic. It's pathetic, they're pathetic and I'm Lovin it!

Jealous? of peyton manning? how can I ever envision myself being in peyton manning's shoes?gee, i wish i was peyton manning, throwing all of those TDs? I dream of this on the subway on the way to work.pathetic argument.

 

[Muntucky Maverick]

I swear, this sustained whining is possibly the single funniest thing I've seen on these boards in a long time.

I totally agree. I love watching these idiots try to explain their jealous, mis-guided logic. It's pathetic, they're pathetic and I'm Lovin it!

Jealous? of peyton manning? how can I ever envision myself being in peyton manning's shoes?gee, i wish i was peyton manning, throwing all of those TDs? I dream of this on the subway on the way to work.pathetic argument.

See, this is what I mean. It just keeps getting better.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I swear, this sustained whining is possibly the single funniest thing I've seen on these boards in a long time.

I totally agree. I love watching these idiots try to explain their jealous, mis-guided logic. It's pathetic, they're pathetic and I'm Lovin it!

Jealous? of peyton manning? how can I ever envision myself being in peyton manning's shoes?gee, i wish i was peyton manning, throwing all of those TDs? I dream of this on the subway on the way to work.pathetic argument.

It's pretty simple really. All the Peyton Manning owners have been drafting QBs in the first round and coming up empty for years. Finally their QB breaks out so they have to talk smack while the gettins are good. They know the chances of Manning posting these kinds of stats ever again are slim and none. So of course, anytime someone mentions Manning they get to stand on the soapbox and proclaim their FF genius for this year only.

 

[Muntucky Maverick]

Here are some stats for all your cry babies. The Colts had 60 offensive plays today. They ran the ball 29 times and passed 31 times. That doesn't seem to lopsided to me. For the year the Colts have had 667 offensive plays. 305 were rushing, 356 were passing. I'm not a mathmetician but that turns out to be 53% passing and 47% rushing. Still, I don't see where Manning is not sharing the ball. If you all are crying about Edge not getting the ball then why not say the same thing about his recievers. Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Pollard, & Clark? Do they not deserve the ball too? Plus, Edge has caught the ball 34 times and rushed the ball 243 times. I don't think Edge is being neglected. Quit crying you whimps!

 

[BassNBrew]

In 2nd half while leading:

Culpepper - 70 attempts, 8 TD

McNabb - 125 attempts, 7 TD

Brees - 76 attempts, 6 TD

Manning - 63 attempts, 6 TD (in one extra game)

In 4th quarter while leading:

McNabb - 56 attempts, 4 TD

Culpepper - 36 attempts, 4 TD

...

Manning - 18 attempts, 0 TD

Percentage of plays which are pass plays, when leading in the 4th quarter

Eagles - 48%

Patriots - 34%

Colts* - 26%

Steelers - 19%

* - Doesn't count today's game. Percentage would be lower if it did.

Dang you Doug. Here we were have fun and you have to go and let facts get in the way of a bad argument. Maybe I should start thead about how Brees is greedy.

 

[my man otis]

Here are some stats for all your cry babies.  The Colts had 60 offensive plays today.  They ran the ball 29 times and passed 31 times.  That doesn't seem to lopsided to me.  For the year the Colts have had 667 offensive plays.  305 were rushing, 356 were passing.  I'm not a mathmetician but that turns out to be 53% passing and 47% rushing.  Still, I don't see where Manning is not sharing the ball.  If you all are crying about Edge not getting the ball then why not say the same thing about his recievers.  Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Pollard, & Clark?  Do they not deserve the ball too?  Plus, Edge has caught the ball 34 times and rushed the ball 243 times.  I don't think Edge is being neglected.  Quit crying you whimps! 

You've completely missed the point. Reread the threads before replying.You should also tone down the insults. Makes you sound like you have some sort of inferiority complex or something else that would motivate you to insult, not discuss.What is the breakdown of pass/run when they are up 20? What is the average of other teams in the league in the same situation?Again, it has nothing to do with Edge being neglected. I could care less.

 

[General Tso]

In 2nd half while leading:

Culpepper - 70 attempts, 8 TD

McNabb - 125 attempts, 7 TD

Brees - 76 attempts, 6 TD

Manning - 63 attempts, 6 TD  (in one extra game)

In 4th quarter while leading:

McNabb - 56 attempts, 4 TD

Culpepper - 36 attempts, 4 TD

...

Manning - 18 attempts, 0 TD

Percentage of plays which are pass plays, when leading in the 4th quarter

Eagles - 48%

Patriots - 34%

Colts* - 26%

Steelers - 19%

* - Doesn't count today's game.  Percentage would be lower if it did.

Leading by any amount?If you rerun the #s with the contraint of leading by 14+ or 20+, etc, do the numbers look the same?

Wait a minute, Doug. Are you trying to convince us that Manning has not been obsessively pursuing the record?? The stats don't tell the story my friend.Truth is - Indy has only been blowing teams out the last 3 games. In week 3 they had a shootout with Green Bay. Back then, the TD record wasn't even being thought of, so Indy was running the game in a sane fashion. Against a good GB offense, with a 35-24 lead in the 3rd quarter, it made sense to run the ball and keep the Indy Defense off the field. So they did it (19 runs and 11 passes). It was this wise play calling that won them the game.

Fast forward to week 7 against KC. Manning goes pass happy against one of the worst rush defenses in history. Indy passes 44 times and only runs the ball 10 times. KC wins going away, but Manning throws for 5 TD's and 472 yards. Great game for Peyto, bad game for the team. Now the talk starts about the TD record and everything is about to change drastically.

Week 9 against Houston. Up 14-0 in the 2nd Q, Edge busts off a 28 yard run to the one foot line. The play is reviewed to see if Edge got in, thus giving him ample time to rest up and stay on the field. On 1st and 1 foot - Manning throws a TD pass.

With 6 minutes left in the 3rd Q, Indy has a 35-0 lead. Manning throws on 2nd down and it is intercepted, leading to Houston's first TD. It's now 35-7. Indy gets the ball with 2 minutes left in the 3rd. Manning throws 3 straight times, the 3rd pass an 80 yard TD to Harrison. It ends there, right? Wrong. Indy gets the ball with 12 minutes left in the game - up by 5 touchdowns. Manning throws 4 straight passes - the 4th being another interception that leads to Houston's 2nd TD of the game. Indy gets the ball back with 7 minutes left. On 3rd and 1, Manning throws an incomplete bomb to Harrison. Mercifully, Indy does not get the ball again the rest of the game - or else who knows - maybe Manning would have thrown some more.

Week 10 against Chicago. It's late in the 2nd Q and Indy is dominating, up 24-3. Manning already has 3 TD passes. With 1:08 left in the 2nd Quarter Indy has 3rd and 1 at the 2. If you're not going for the TD record you probably run the ball here and take the clock down to the end of the half. But Manning passes and throws an incompletion. Vandy gets the FG, but the Bears get the ball with 1 minute left and are allowed to run 6 plays before the end of the half. They didn't get in FG range, but they could have.

In the 3rd Q, up 27-3, it's 1st and goal at the 7. Manning throws an INT. On the next possession, it's 3 pass plays and 1 run - the last play a long TD pass. Indy got one more possession - up by over 4 TD's latein the 3rd - and to their credit they let Edge run the ball. He scores an 11 yard TD. Then the starters are pulled. You can thank Dungy for putting an end to this madness.

 

[Muntucky Maverick]

Again, it has nothing to do with Edge being neglected. I could care less.

Really? Well you posted this in the game thread when someone said that Edge was going to the bench: "7 more yards first. is that all i can ask?" That sounds like to me that you care. Also, I don't care if you think it sounds like I have an inferiority complex or not. I'm just tired of all the people on this bored who are crying about Manning being selfish. It's ridiculous. You wanted Edge to score and you are mad at Manning for not giving him the ball in the redzone. It's that simple.

 

[my man otis]

Again, it has nothing to do with Edge being neglected.  I could care less.

Really? Well you posted this in the game thread when someone said that Edge was going to the bench: "7 more yards first. is that all i can ask?" That sounds like to me that you care. Also, I don't care if you think it sounds like I have an inferiority complex or not. I'm just tired of all the people on this bored who are crying about Manning being selfish. It's ridiculous. You wanted Edge to score and you are mad at Manning for not giving him the ball in the redzone. It's that simple.

Nice to see I matter that much to you that you will search thru my posts. I'm really flattered!!! :sigh:

 

[Muntucky Maverick]

Again, it has nothing to do with Edge being neglected.  I could care less.

Really? Well you posted this in the game thread when someone said that Edge was going to the bench: "7 more yards first. is that all i can ask?" That sounds like to me that you care. Also, I don't care if you think it sounds like I have an inferiority complex or not. I'm just tired of all the people on this bored who are crying about Manning being selfish. It's ridiculous. You wanted Edge to score and you are mad at Manning for not giving him the ball in the redzone. It's that simple.

Nice to see I matter that much to you . I'm flattered.

I'm glad you are flattered but it doesn't have anything to do with you personally. I just like calling people out on the BS they spew.

 

[Tau837]

Not arguing one way or the other on the Manning issue but I'm fairly certain that net points hase never been used as a tie breaker. To use that as rationale for running up the score is weak.

In 1999 it almost came into play in the NFC. Entering the final week, Detroit, Green Bay, Carolina, and Dallas were fighting for the final two playoff spots. I can't remember the exact scenario entering the final week, but I distinctly remember that it was possible the points tiebreaker was going to come into play for Carolina and Green Bay. They both went all out and ran up the score, with Carolina beating the Saints 45-13 and Green Bay beating the Cardinals 49-24. I remember that the potential scenario was between those two games, and they cut into the Carolina game each time Green Bay scored. It ended up not mattering, presumably because they didn't get the help they needed, and both missed the playoffs.

 

[Dhamon ShadowHawk]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Let me get this straight. You work for a team that played it's rival and beat it easily with a TD pass that was not needed. The next year, the rival played you tough and beat you even though you should have won easily because of that TD? Do you really think the TD made that much of a difference? What kind of rivally is there if they need that spark? Never, ever did we need any extra incentive when playing a rival and they still don't. You talk to kids at my old HS and they need no incentive to play their hardest against our main rival. If you need extra incentive to go out and play any game hard then maybe you shouldn't be stepping out there. Maybe your team fell into the trap game especially after leading early.Maybe it's just my thought process is different from yours which is perfectly fine. My favorite coachs were always ones that played for the juggular. My junior year of baseball, we were hated beyound belief for scoring unneeded runs in blowouts. I went to a small school so we didn't have many subs so we couldn't pull all the starters but he would also use unneeded tatics ike suicide squeezes and such. Did those things piss teams off? Yes. Did they play harder the next time? If so, then they deserve the whipping they got last time for not trying their hardest. We no hit one team in 5 innings (mercy kill) one game like 22-0 scoring unneeded runs with our ace on the mound. They were pissed off and of course made some comments like they would enjoy returning the beating. This implies they would try their hardest and have extra reasons to beat us. Well, it was our #3 guys turn to go the only other time we played them and they showed up fired up. Even with the easy win last time, our coach always had us ready and we no hit them for a 15-0 victory that time so I guess maybe their extra incentive did help a bit, we scored 7 less runs. Many times we led big early but this coach never let up. It pissed people off but personally I'd rather play that way.In fact, 3 years ago on a work softball team we showed up with the minimum amount we could play with, 8. We were playing the best team and whom we beat the last time. 8 guys against a great team usually means doom and it did here. After 4 innings, we were down 26-5 or so. The 5th inning they came up and with the mercy rule clearly in site (10 run lead after 5, we were home obviously), they went up obviously bored with us and wanting to end it. They started swinging to hit pop-ups (no one wants to strike out, even on purpose) so we culd get them out and they could get us out and go home. We had some hot heads on our team but I'm not known to be one so when I went off, they were shocked. Why did I go off? You find it disrespecting when someone goes out and tries hard to score when they didn't need too but I got mad because I felt they were disrespecting us by not trying anymore. I would rather they score 10+ runs that inning if they could have. Anyway, I don't get why the Colts should run, run, run when they get a decent lead. I didn't hear anyone bash the Chiefs when they beat the Falcons 56-10. 6 rushng TDs and in the 4th Q, what did they do? They rushed the ball for 2 more TDs! 2 passes and 16 rush attempts! The bastards! Wasn't 6 rushing TDs enough going into the 4th quarter?As a player, #### simple. Don't want to see TO doing a dance, stop him. Don't want Manning throwing his 5th TD, stop him. I am in favor of teams calling plays to get them into the endzone no matter the score or time. No player should need extra incentive to play thier hardest on any level. When you put on that uniform, you should be going all out no matter the opponent, time, score, whatever. If you can beat me or my team in an embarrassing fashion, do it because we should be stopping you. We aren't doing our job and you are and there is no shame in doing your job.

 

[trader jake]

Truth is - Indy has only been blowing teams out the last 3 games. In week 3 they had a shootout with Green Bay. Back then, the TD record wasn't even being thought of, so Indy was running the game in a sane fashion. Against a good GB offense, with a 35-24 lead in the 3rd quarter, it made sense to run the ball and keep the Indy Defense off the field. So they did it (19 runs and 11 passes). It was this wise play calling that won them the game.

Actually Indy was up big and because of their conservative play-calling (and a mix of terrible defense and Favre being Favre) Green Bay ended up with a legit chance at winning the game.What ever happened to "Dungification"? :rotflmao:

 

[Tau837]

I guess the true test of this issue is how Manning and the Colts do down the stretch and in the playoffs. When they face a team like the Pats that will do everything in their power to shut down Manning in the red zone - will Dungy and the Indy fans wonder if they would have been better off trying a few more running plays and developing that part of their game in the regular season?

This is amusing for a couple different reasons.

When they face a team like the Pats that will do everything in their power to shut down Manning in the red zone

Because the teams they are playing now aren't doing everything in their power to stop the Colts, right? Or did you really mean to say that the Pats are more capable of stopping them than many of the teams they have played this season?

will Dungy and the Indy fans wonder if they would have been better off trying a few more running plays and developing that part of their game in the regular season?

Yeah, I guess having the NFL's second leading rusher (through week 11) shows that their running game needs a lot of work. ---It seems that many who are griping about Manning are of the opinion that he is "stealing" touches from James.Through week 11, James averaged 22 carries and 25.1 touches. How much more do you expect him to touch the ball? He's on pace for 352 carries and 402 touches. You think it is in the best interest of the Colts to give him MORE touches prior to the playoffs? Please.Now, other than James, Colts RBs have only 36 carries, 33 by Rhodes and 3 by Mungro. I could see arguing that those guys should get more carries in the blowouts, but not James.That said, I have no problem with Indy's approach. I don't really get why everyone is so upset about it. They are doing their job and doing it well. The other teams aren't doing theirs. Period.

 

[General Tso]

A football game is 60 minutes long.  If your opponent can't keep up, that's their problem.  The team in the lead should not stop trying just because they're up by a few.  If passing is what works, then pass for crying out loud.

WRONG. There's an unwritten code in football that you do not run up the score on your opponent. There is good reason for this custom. To illustrate, here's a story... I work for a high school team that last year beat its rival handily. With a big lead in the 4th quarter, they threw the ball on the 2nd and 1 and scored a TD. The opposing team was furious needless to say. This year, my team played their archrivals again. My team was 8-1 and only needed to win the game to make the state playoffs. The other team was 3-6 and a huge underdog. Long story short, the other team played the game like it was the state championship. There were signs all over the stadium reminding players and fans of the disrespect shown last year. And even though my team got off to a big lead, this other team drew upon the emotion of last year's humiliation and ended up scoring 20 points in the 4th quarter to win.So you tell me - was last year's extra TD pass worth it? Was it worth all the animosity? Was it worth the upset the following year? Was it worth a state title?? Unless you've played football, you can't really appreciate how much the game is about emotion and bulletin board material.Mark your calendars - in two weeks Peyton and the Colts will play Houston in Houston - after humiliating them a couple weeks ago - the infamous game when Peyton was gunning the ball up by 4 TD's late in the 4th quarter. Houston players took it personally. If the Colts lose in an upset in two weeks, it could significantly hurt their playoff seeding. You tell me - was it worth it??Football is a team sport. Individual records are silly in football. You gotta love the Patriots and Tom Brady. It's all about team with them - no individual accolades. And THAT is why they've won 2 Superbowls. Peyton will break the record, but the Colts team will suffer for it in the long run. Mark my words.

But don't you want your team to play with a killer instinct, go for the juggular, don't hold anything back attitude?You can't turn on and off intensity, when you the breaks on your offense it's a lot harder to get it going again.

A valid question, posted by someone who obviously has a modicum of class and interest in the truth.Here's my take on it, for what it's worth. It lies at the heart of why this thing ticks me off so much. The thing I love most about football is that it is the last true team sport. Baseball and basketball have become littered with "personal records" the last few years, with high paid wussies that have no idea what it means to work within the concept of a team. What's not to love about football - where 350 pound offensive linemen are just as important to winning as the flashy superstars? These guys put their bodies through hell every year and do so for relatively modest wages. They do it because they lovethe game - and they love working within the framework of a team.The NFL has been challenged recently by the very things that have turned off so many of us to the other sports - where the individual is put above the team. The same people who complain about TO's touchdown celebrations seem to have no problem with Manning obsessing over an individual record. Call me old fashioned, but I'd much rather see a guy like Daniel Graham - who was on pace for a record setting TD season for a TE - take a back seat individually and do what is best for the team to win (ie - blocking while some O-linemen are injured).Getting back to the ideaof "reigning it in". This is what annoys me the most in this thread - all the people who think it is "communist" or somehow un-American NOT to blow out a team when you have the chance. This is wrong on so many levels. For now, I'll only addres the aspect of this issue that some of you can undrstand - that it is counterproductive to winnin games down the road. If the idea is for the team to win, then running up the score defeats that goal. I'l explain it in military terms so that some of you can understand.Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation. Obviously you have to win the game on the field, and if your opponent can't stop the pass - you pass on them. But at some point in the game, when the outcome is in hand, it becomes counterproductive to run up the score. When your opponent is defeated, you pull your starters and run the ball and end the gam. You shake your opponents' hands and tell them what a great game they played. You don't give them any added motivation for the next time you play them. It's intelligent, and it helps your team's chances down the road.What Manning did against Houston a couple weeks ago went counter to that. He humiliated his opponents and gave them added incentive to win in a few weeks. Now Houston may not win the game, but they will certainly play with added motivation. And THAT my friends - is undeniable proof that Manning's pursuit of the record is deliterious to the overall chances of his team winning.The trick to all of this is knowing when to "reign it in". The line is not set in stone, but like pornography, you tend to know it when you see it. Manning seems to have lost the ability to see this, and I blame the record. You reap what you sew. In the end, he'll get his personal record. But I can't help but wonder what effect it will have on his team, and on the kids who look up to him.

Let me get this straight. You work for a team that played it's rival and beat it easily with a TD pass that was not needed. The next year, the rival played you tough and beat you even though you should have won easily because of that TD? Do you really think the TD made that much of a difference? What kind of rivally is there if they need that spark? Never, ever did we need any extra incentive when playing a rival and they still don't. You talk to kids at my old HS and they need no incentive to play their hardest against our main rival. If you need extra incentive to go out and play any game hard then maybe you shouldn't be stepping out there. Maybe your team fell into the trap game especially after leading early.Maybe it's just my thought process is different from yours which is perfectly fine. My favorite coachs were always ones that played for the juggular. My junior year of baseball, we were hated beyound belief for scoring unneeded runs in blowouts. I went to a small school so we didn't have many subs so we couldn't pull all the starters but he would also use unneeded tatics ike suicide squeezes and such. Did those things piss teams off? Yes. Did they play harder the next time? If so, then they deserve the whipping they got last time for not trying their hardest. We no hit one team in 5 innings (mercy kill) one game like 22-0 scoring unneeded runs with our ace on the mound. They were pissed off and of course made some comments like they would enjoy returning the beating. This implies they would try their hardest and have extra reasons to beat us. Well, it was our #3 guys turn to go the only other time we played them and they showed up fired up. Even with the easy win last time, our coach always had us ready and we no hit them for a 15-0 victory that time so I guess maybe their extra incentive did help a bit, we scored 7 less runs. Many times we led big early but this coach never let up. It pissed people off but personally I'd rather play that way.In fact, 3 years ago on a work softball team we showed up with the minimum amount we could play with, 8. We were playing the best team and whom we beat the last time. 8 guys against a great team usually means doom and it did here. After 4 innings, we were down 26-5 or so. The 5th inning they came up and with the mercy rule clearly in site (10 run lead after 5, we were home obviously), they went up obviously bored with us and wanting to end it. They started swinging to hit pop-ups (no one wants to strike out, even on purpose) so we culd get them out and they could get us out and go home. We had some hot heads on our team but I'm not known to be one so when I went off, they were shocked. Why did I go off? You find it disrespecting when someone goes out and tries hard to score when they didn't need too but I got mad because I felt they were disrespecting us by not trying anymore. I would rather they score 10+ runs that inning if they could have. Anyway, I don't get why the Colts should run, run, run when they get a decent lead. I didn't hear anyone bash the Chiefs when they beat the Falcons 56-10. 6 rushng TDs and in the 4th Q, what did they do? They rushed the ball for 2 more TDs! 2 passes and 16 rush attempts! The bastards! Wasn't 6 rushing TDs enough going into the 4th quarter?As a player, #### simple. Don't want to see TO doing a dance, stop him. Don't want Manning throwing his 5th TD, stop him. I am in favor of teams calling plays to get them into the endzone no matter the score or time. No player should need extra incentive to play thier hardest on any level. When you put on that uniform, you should be going all out no matter the opponent, time, score, whatever. If you can beat me or my team in an embarrassing fashion, do it because we should be stopping you. We aren't doing our job and you are and there is no shame in doing your job.

Thank you for making my argument for me. When sports comes to this (especially high school sports), it's time we all stand back and take a look at the Manning situation with this guy in mind.

 

[MojoDawg]

I seriously think this Tso dude is kidding. No one is THIS misguided.He even did an "intellectual" bit....

Von Clausewitz postulated that to defeat an enemy you have to disable their "center of gravity". Center of gravity has been debated a lot over the years, but here is how Clausewitz defines it..."the hub of all movement, on which everything depends"I would argue that in a football game the "hub of all power and movement" is largely made up of emotional motivation.

The hub of all movement, on which everything depends is... emotional motivation???!!! Strength, scheme, speed come to mind...Defeating their "center of gravity" would therefore be... "upsetting their emotional motivation???!!!" Ummm... they say things about eachothers' moms, wives and stick their fingers in eachothers' eyes.It's so silly that it HAS to be a joke.I'm not a pro football coach or an expert, but I hae a sneaking suspicion that they throw because throwing works.