Andre Ellington - RB - Clemson. (1 Viewer)

[Zdravko]

What are the chances this episode finally teaches Arians not use Ellington as a hammer between the tackles? He'd be much more valuable to his team (and consistently available...) if he had 7-8 carries per game and 7-8 targets.

It was a non-contact injury.

It was but I think the point is that he would be at less risk from injury, of all types, if he had had maybe four touches in advance of that play instead of 12 (and been in the lineup for a smaller % of plays overall).

This. Plus for a RB with injury history, it surely makes more sense than for a WR who never gets hurt.

And it's not managing reps, it's rebalancing them. It's taking him out in situations where his effectiveness is subpar (between the tackles) and increasing his reps in situations where his effectiveness is proven above average - outside and on screens.

I own one share of Ellington and zero of David Johnson. I'd rather see Ellington get 8 targets than 15 carries.

 

[Zdravko]

What are the chances this episode finally teaches Arians not use Ellington as a hammer between the tackles? He'd be much more valuable to his team (and consistently available...) if he had 7-8 carries per game and 7-8 targets.

I agree he would be more valuable but DJ is better than Ellington at both of those things. Ellington should be more of a change of pace 3rd down back and get 6-7 touches total. They need to unleash the dragon.

When your boy DJ proves himself like Ellington has, then you might be correct. At this point, there is nothing to suggest Ellington is not the better back when healthy. All else is wishful thinking - for now.

As a HUGE Cardinal fan your statement is flawed. Andre has proven zero. H was below average as a runner yet did pretty well in the passing game. He is also quite brittle. I expect DJ to be the man this time next year as he looks the part. I do however think Chris Johnson will get a nice chunk going forward but likely no resigned. Cardinals do many one year deal and let the guys go.

You can't possibly be comparing Ellington's track record with David Johnson's. You may end up correct over time, but for the time being there are no facts pro-DJ on the table. "He looks the part" is hardly compelling.

Also, I did specify "when healthy".

 

[ourmanflint]

What are the chances this episode finally teaches Arians not use Ellington as a hammer between the tackles? He'd be much more valuable to his team (and consistently available...) if he had 7-8 carries per game and 7-8 targets.

It was a non-contact injury.

It was but I think the point is that he would be at less risk from injury, of all types, if he had had maybe four touches in advance of that play instead of 12 (and been in the lineup for a smaller % of plays overall).

Jordy Nelson and Kelvin Benjamin both tore their ACL's with non-contact injuries. Should their teams have been managing their snaps? They came out much worse than Ellington.

No.

ETA: Well actually, yes, the Packers should have put Nelson on a snap count for such a meaningless game. Realistically they should have not played him at all considering he was coming off of hip surgery.

I guess we need to start managing Dez Bryant's touches too.

 

[kneeshooter]

Promising: https://twitter.com/Cardschatter/status/644229906402902016

Not really expecting him for this week, but looks good for Week 3.

 

[Fat Nick]

Promising: https://twitter.com/Cardschatter/status/644229906402902016

Not really expecting him for this week, but looks good for Week 3.

Wow. After reading the initial appearance of this, I'm shocked. I was fully expecting him to be done for the year. Counting my blessings.

 

[zamboni]

I definitely have some concerns even when he comes back. For a guy that relies on elusiveness/cutting ability, we saw what happened last year when he was less than 100%.

 

[rickyg]

I definitely have some concerns even when he comes back. For a guy that relies on elusiveness/cutting ability, we saw what happened last year when he was less than 100%.

Plus1. This guy sucks when trying to play injured. I'd almost rather he not play until he's 100%

 

[Chaka]

What are the chances this episode finally teaches Arians not use Ellington as a hammer between the tackles? He'd be much more valuable to his team (and consistently available...) if he had 7-8 carries per game and 7-8 targets.

It was a non-contact injury.

It was but I think the point is that he would be at less risk from injury, of all types, if he had had maybe four touches in advance of that play instead of 12 (and been in the lineup for a smaller % of plays overall).

Jordy Nelson and Kelvin Benjamin both tore their ACL's with non-contact injuries. Should their teams have been managing their snaps? They came out much worse than Ellington.

No.

ETA: Well actually, yes, the Packers should have put Nelson on a snap count for such a meaningless game. Realistically they should have not played him at all considering he was coming off of hip surgery.

I guess we need to start managing Dez Bryant's touches too.

 

[bulger2holt]

He's on my bench until he passes the eye test for me

 

[Zdravko]

What are the chances this episode finally teaches Arians not use Ellington as a hammer between the tackles? He'd be much more valuable to his team (and consistently available...) if he had 7-8 carries per game and 7-8 targets.

It was a non-contact injury.

It was but I think the point is that he would be at less risk from injury, of all types, if he had had maybe four touches in advance of that play instead of 12 (and been in the lineup for a smaller % of plays overall).

Jordy Nelson and Kelvin Benjamin both tore their ACL's with non-contact injuries. Should their teams have been managing their snaps? They came out much worse than Ellington.

No.

ETA: Well actually, yes, the Packers should have put Nelson on a snap count for such a meaningless game. Realistically they should have not played him at all considering he was coming off of hip surgery.

I guess we need to start managing Dez Bryant's touches too.

Why would you equate the rationale for managing the reps of an RB that has a checkered injury history with the rationale for doing the same for WRs that don't? Apples and oranges.

Injuries happen to everyone, but RBs get hurt disproportionately more than WRs. Also, unlike WRs, they become less effective with increased usage during a game. We see the ramifications of that every week - how many teams run the same guy on 90%+ of the carries? Even when one back is clearly superior, most teams still manage his reps.

I am a big fan of Ellington, but in his history in the league so far, he has been a good example of both the more-frequent-injury phenomenon and the underperformance-when-overused phenomenon. What I said before this derailed into a "Why-don't-you-also-bench-Dez" conversation is that I believe he would be much more effective per touch if they gave him fewer carries between the tackles, which is clearly not his strength, and a lot more outside sweep and short-dump touches, which is where he frequently has been electric.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Coach Bruce Arians said the Cardinals have their "fingers crossed" Andre Ellington (knee) can return Week 4.
Chris and David Johnson will handle backfield duties Week 3 against the 49ers. Ellington is recovering from a Week 1 "mild" PCL sprain and has already started running again. Initially diagnosed as a 2-3 week injury, a Week 4 return would hit that timetable. With David Johnson showing well and expected to keep getting more looks on offense, Ellington's return will only further muddy this backfield.

Source: Sirius XM NFL Radio
Sep 22 - 8:59 PM

 

[Banger]

I'm pretty deep at RB and thinking of offering him to the David Johnson owner for dion Lewis.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Andre Ellington (knee) returned to Friday's practice and will be a game-time decision Sunday against the 49ers.
Ellington's timetable was originally set at 2-3 weeks after a PCL sprain. He didn't practice on Wednesday or Thursday and was "limited" in Friday's session. Chris Johnson led the Cardinals' backfield with 20 touches in Week 2 but was upstaged by rookie David Johnson (two touchdowns). Ellington has a better chance of returning Week 4 against St. Louis. On the off chance Ellington does play against San Francisco, we'd expect to see him as a member of a three-man RBBC.

Source: Mike Jurecki on Twitter
Sep 25 - 3:48 PM

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Any thoughts on what kind of work Ellington is looking at when he gets back, in terms of sharing with the Johnsons?

About 10 carries plus targets and GL work when he gets back?

That sounds fine to me in that offense with the defense lining up opportunities.

 

[zamboni]

Any thoughts on what kind of work Ellington is looking at when he gets back, in terms of sharing with the Johnsons?

About 10 carries plus targets and GL work when he gets back?

That sounds fine to me in that offense with the defense lining up opportunities.

Hard to say, but have to think that DJ will take a back seat and wait his turn, while Ellington and CJ split.

As for as GL duties, that remains to be seen since both Ellington and CJ have both gotten looks at the goal line when they were the starters.

 

[Hilts]

I'm pretty deep at RB and thinking of offering him to the David Johnson owner for dion Lewis.

Good luck with that nonsense.

 

[Ted Mullins]

Any thoughts on what kind of work Ellington is looking at when he gets back, in terms of sharing with the Johnsons?

About 10 carries plus targets and GL work when he gets back?

That sounds fine to me in that offense with the defense lining up opportunities.

Biased Ellington owner here but this is exactly what I'm thinking/hoping for, 12-18 touches depending on game flow and goalline once fully healthy. David Johnson worries me some as he looks awesome but if Arians won't give him touches with Ellington out I think we should be okay for this year. Just need him to stay healthy going foward

 

[Insein]

I'm pretty deep at RB and thinking of offering him to the David Johnson owner for dion Lewis.

Looks like we got a comedian.

 

[Banger]

I'm pretty deep at RB and thinking of offering him to the David Johnson owner for dion Lewis.

Looks like we got a comedian.

lost Big Ben this weekend and traded Ellington for Palmer/Blue (I have Foster). Was an owner of him for a few years in my keeper league...good luck all.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Cardinals coach Bruce Arians stated Wednesday that Andre Ellington (PCL) is "50-50" to play Sunday versus St. Louis.

Ellington returned to a limited practice Wednesday, but Arians made it sound like he isn't particularly close to fully healed. "He’s 50/50," said Arians. "He can go straight ahead real fast as always. It’s just the turning and stopping a little bit." Agility is obviously one of Ellington's calling cards, and if he can't change direction fluidly, he isn't going to help the Cardinals. There are several days left before Sunday, but at this stage of the week we'd guess it'll be a Chris-David Johnson backfield against the Rams.

Source: Mike Jurecki on Twitter

Sep 30 - 7:43 PM

 

[Insein]

Sit down Andre. Get fully healthy. You're nothing when 50%.

 

[Ted Mullins]

IMO if he's not fully healthy the ideal situation is he sits and Chris Johnson gets 15-20 touches and looks bad.

 

[Ilov80s]

Report is if AE plays this week, CJ still starts.

https://twitter.com/cardschatter/status/650031768637050880

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So that's that, huh?

I don't think so. Chris doesn't have much left to go all season, I think Ellington will return to the fore soon enough. Stash.

 

[Insein]

CJ will show his true colors within a few games. As long as Ellington is 100%, he'll have good value in the second half.

 

[McGarnicle]

Sit down Andre. Get fully healthy. You're nothing when 50%.

Yeah I've got Ellington and DJohnson, not considering starting either of them this week if Ellington plays. If Ellington and Luck are inactive, then I'd bench Gore and start Johnson, but Luck probably plays imo.

 

[Ilov80s]

So that's that, huh?

I don't think so. Chris doesn't have much left to go all season, I think Ellington will return to the fore soon enough. Stash.

I took it to mean just this week. AE is still their plan for 2015.

 

[rickyg]

This scrub is on my bench until he can show that he can stay healthy AND have a sizable role in that offense. Prove it mode for me.

 

[Insein]

This scrub is on my bench until he can show that he can stay healthy AND have a sizable role in that offense. Prove it mode for me.

Problem is he may have his prove it game of 150 total yards and 2 TDs on your bench and then nothing after that.

 

[Manster]

So that's that, huh?

I don't think so. Chris doesn't have much left to go all season, I think Ellington will return to the fore soon enough. Stash.

Yep. CJ has been a nice signing for the Cards, but he's got a lot of mileage.

 

[rickyg]

This scrub is on my bench until he can show that he can stay healthy AND have a sizable role in that offense. Prove it mode for me.

Problem is he may have his prove it game of 150 total yards and 2 TDs on your bench and then nothing after that.[/quote

A cold day in hell before a small back like Andrea Ellington has 150 yds for 2 tds.

I remember last preseason being high on him. I now see clearly. He's not lead back material. He's made of glass and is best suited to play a complimentary role. Maybe like a sproles type player. Which can be valuable if he has a coach that Know ow to use him.

 

[RBM]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

 

[Milkman]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

The problem is now they have a RB that is better than Ellington in pretty much everything. So in this situation he should just be spelling David Johnson going forward.

 

[rickyg]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

The problem is now they have a RB that is better than Ellington in pretty much everything. So in this situation he should just be spellinig David Johnson going forward.

Yup. Writing is on the wall

 

[Resident A]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

The problem is now they have a RB that is better than Ellington in pretty much everything. So in this situation he should just be spelling David Johnson going forward.

Um, no. This is a ridiculous statement. Ellington is an elite receiving RB. This isn't 2010 CJ anymore, I don't think he's better than Ellington at anything, maybe staying healthy...

I don't own either. But let's watch football, not just box scores.

 

[VaTerp]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

The problem is now they have a RB that is better than Ellington in pretty much everything. So in this situation he should just be spelling David Johnson going forward.

Um, no. This is a ridiculous statement. Ellington is an elite receiving RB. This isn't 2010 CJ anymore, I don't think he's better than Ellington at anything, maybe staying healthy...

I don't own either. But let's watch football, not just box scores.

CJ is NOT the Johnson he's talking about.

 

[Otis]

David Johnson carries defenders with him every time he runs. In the open field he's a freight train. Huge potential. Reminds me a little of Ronnie Brown, but more dangerous.

 

[Milkman]

Yup, this guy would be perfect in a Woodhead type role.

The problem is now they have a RB that is better than Ellington in pretty much everything. So in this situation he should just be spelling David Johnson going forward.

Um, no. This is a ridiculous statement. Ellington is an elite receiving RB. This isn't 2010 CJ anymore, I don't think he's better than Ellington at anything, maybe staying healthy...I don't own either. But let's watch football, not just box scores.

Sorry for the confusion did I spell David Johnson wrong. He's bigger, faster, more built for a 3 down role, annnd a better receiver out of the backfield. Barring and injury to "David" Johnson, Ellington's done in AZ after this year.

 

[Manster]

What should we expect from Andre today?

 

[Bugg]

What should we expect from Andre today?

I've been thinking this over all week. Not so much from Andre's perspective, but from CJ's perspective. While Arians did say that CJ would continue to be a 15-20 touch guy, I have seen differing opinions on whether that applied to just last week, or the foreseeable future. I have yet to be convinced either way.

However, in regards to this week, I envision the Cards getting up early and wanting to run a lot to close things out. With the two DET starting defensive tackles out, I believe this will be a CJ day. What that means for Andre, is that I expect him to get similar to what David Johnson has gotten the last few weeks. It's then up to him and his health to make the most of it, which could be a productive day. However, I must note that I have spent all week thinking about this because I have not been able to clearly convince myself that I am right. I am starting CJ though.

Take it for what it is worth.

 

[Ilov80s]

What should we expect from Andre today?

8 for 30 on the ground, 8 for 70 in the air is my guess.

 

[Manster]

I sat him, but I think he's a sneaky play. Rested, and more explosive than CJ

 

[Bugg]

I sat him, but I think he's a sneaky play. Rested, and more explosive than CJ

Definitely sneaky. All three AZ RB's had a very efficient day. Maybe S. Taylor can knock one out of the park in garbage time now.

 

[Ilov80s]

I sat him, but I think he's a sneaky play. Rested, and more explosive than CJ

Definitely sneaky. All three AZ RB's had a very efficient day. Maybe S. Taylor can knock one out of the park in garbage time now.

Other than Floyd, you couldn't miss starting Cards today.

 

[Bugg]

I sat him, but I think he's a sneaky play. Rested, and more explosive than CJ

Definitely sneaky. All three AZ RB's had a very efficient day. Maybe S. Taylor can knock one out of the park in garbage time now.

Other than Floyd, you couldn't miss starting Cards today.

Good point And the best part (or worst based on perspective) is that none of them got any real volume on targets or attempts!

 

[shadrap]

Considering dropping Ellington. Appears he is behind both CJ & DJ for touches, plus no goal line looks spells droppable. 4th rnd. pick in two drafts. [slump]

 

[steviey]

I guess it depends on your league type, record, etc. but the talent still appears to be there. He's scored in both games he has appeared in and has rushed for 132 yards on 15 carries. If that kind of production continues he has to get a decent share of the touches. The situation is murkier than we hoped but he's produced when given the opportunity.

 

[simsarge]

Even if he is #3ish on the RB depth chart, he's still a pretty valuable handcuff. He's going to get flex-able touches. Given his explosiveness,if either Johnson goes down he's probably startable. Seems he's more likely to get a shot than say a Rawls who won't start unless Lynch and only Lynch gets hurt. My 2 cents.

 

[TartanLion]

Well, I've just traded for him and had it accepted. Absolutely buggered at RB just now. Picked up Michael Floyd yesterday afternoon, dropping Catanzaro and taking a zero at kicker as had already won game. Today I've managed to flip that into Ellington. Doesn't seem to have any value right now, but I'll take the chance on CJ wearing out/slowing down and Ellington having some fresher legs as the season progresses.

 

[Insein]

He's got a decent floor in PPR right now. Getting at least 7 a week is better than zero. Just have to wait for the inevitable CJ breakdown like said above and he could get some value back.