Another MAGA victory- this time in West Virginia (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Once again MAGA triumphs as the Trump backed candidate, Mooney, wins over the Republican establishment candidate, McKinley. McKinley’s major sin? He voted for the infrastructure bill (because it benefits West Virginia.) 

I think it is now a reasonable statement to declare that the Republican Party is become dominated by its most extreme members. On the Democratic side, candidates backed by AOC and Bernie consistently lose out to centrists. On the Republican side, candidates backed by Trump consistently defeat centrists. 
 

 

[Shula-holic]

The Trump supported candidate for governor lost in NE tonight. It’s race specific. Brian Kemp is going to win in GA too. 

 

[timschochet]

The Trump supported candidate for governor lost in NE tonight. It’s race specific. Brian Kemp is going to win in GA too. 

I get that. But you have to say that Trump’s guys are winning more often than they’re losing. 

 

[identikit]

Doesn't quite meet 'domination' levels

 

[parasaurolophus]

I get that. But you have to say that Trump’s guys are winning more often than they’re losing. 

Do they? 

 

[FairWarning]

The left has one issue - Roe vs Wade.  They will really have to fortify these elections.

 

[lazyike]

The left has one issue - Roe vs Wade.  They will really have to fortify these elections.

And that’s not going to cut it in Red States, Republicans would vote for felons if they are pro life.

 

[FairWarning]

And that’s not going to cut it in Red States, Republicans would vote for felons if they are pro life.

I don’t agree with their stance, but you’re right.  

 

[BladeRunner]

I get that. But you have to say that Trump’s guys are winning more often than they’re losing. 

You quoted one race and Shula quoted two races where you were wrong. That is the very opposite of "Trumps guys are winning more often than they're losing".

It's what we call math.

 

[BladeRunner]

And that’s not going to cut it in Red States, Republicans would vote for felons if they are pro life.

And Democrats would vote for pedophiles if they were pro-choice.

Hey, this is pretty fun.  We should all make baseless and/or hyperbolic claims as long as it fits our narrative!

 

[timschochet]

You quoted one race and Shula quoted two races where you were wrong. That is the very opposite of "Trumps guys are winning more often than they're losing".

It's what we call math.

What?? What the heck are you talking about? Prior to a couple losses last night, Trump’s choices have won 55 in a row. That’s an incredible number: 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-endorsements-primaries-david-perdue-mehmet-oz-1703728?amp=1

So 55-2. That’s your math. 

 

[timschochet]

And even the loss in Nebraska is more the result of sexual assault charges against the Trump candidate, along with a  3 way race, than it is any kind of rejection of MAGA. Right now there is very little shade between MAGA and the GOP. It’s one and the same. 

 

[Shula-holic]

What?? What the heck are you talking about? Prior to a couple losses last night, Trump’s choices have won 55 in a row. That’s an incredible number: 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-endorsements-primaries-david-perdue-mehmet-oz-1703728?amp=1

So 55-2. That’s your math. 

You're being selective with your math.  I don't deny Trump's endorsement carries sway, but there have been candidates he backed who started losing and he pulled his endorsement when it was pretty obvious they were going to lose.  See Mo Brooks here in AL for an example.  No doubt he helped someone like Vance in OH, it's very race and candidate specific.

 

[timschochet]

You're being selective with your math.  I don't deny Trump's endorsement carries sway, but there have been candidates he backed who started losing and he pulled his endorsement when it was pretty obvious they were going to lose.  See Mo Brooks here in AL for an example.  No doubt he helped someone like Vance in OH, it's very race and candidate specific.

I don’t think I’m being selective when the numbers are this overwhelming. It’s not like there’s an even amount of people he endorses winning and losing: 55-3 is not very candidate specific. 

 

[Rich Conway]

We don't need to look at primaries to know that Trump/MAGA owns the GOP.  We only need look at how the other "leaders" of the GOP are terrified to cross him, or on the rare occasion they accidentally do cross him, how they trip all over themselves walking it back.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Once again MAGA triumphs as the Trump backed candidate, Mooney, wins over the Republican establishment candidate, McKinley. McKinley’s major sin? He voted for the infrastructure bill (because it benefits West Virginia.) 

I think it is now a reasonable statement to declare that the Republican Party is become dominated by its most extreme members. On the Democratic side, candidates backed by AOC and Bernie consistently lose out to centrists. On the Republican side, candidates backed by Trump consistently defeat centrists. 
 

What exactly is so extreme about Trump's platform?  

 

[JIslander]

And Democrats would vote for pedophiles if they were pro-choice.

Hey, this is pretty fun.  We should all make baseless and/or hyperbolic claims as long as it fits our narrative!

So does Matt Gaetz have competition?

 

[Rich Conway]

What exactly is so extreme about Trump's platform?  

There is that one thing about overturning elections...

There's also that thing about withholding Congressionally approved funding contingent on personal favors...

There's lots more, as you know perfectly well.

 

[Snotbubbles]

There is that one thing about overturning elections...

There's also that thing about withholding Congressionally approved funding contingent on personal favors...

There's lots more, as you know perfectly well.

January 6th and withholding funding isn't an issue voters care about.  There not a policy platform issue, there events.  

Immigration, Inflation, Foreign policy, crime, taxes, energy dependence, trade, climate...those are policy platform issues.  Again, what's so extreme.    

 

[The Dude]

And Democrats would vote for pedophiles if they were pro-choice.

Hey, this is pretty fun.  We should all make baseless and/or hyperbolic claims as long as it fits our narrative!

Waiting for KD...............

 

[The Dude]

I get that. But you have to say that Trump’s guys are winning more often than they’re losing. 

Agreed- but Kemp is a big middle finger to Trump

 

[The Dude]

What?? What the heck are you talking about? Prior to a couple losses last night, Trump’s choices have won 55 in a row. That’s an incredible number: 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-endorsements-primaries-david-perdue-mehmet-oz-1703728?amp=1

So 55-2. That’s your math. 

His record this year is pretty good - and concerning

 

[moleculo]

And Democrats would vote for pedophiles if they were pro-choice.

Hey, this is pretty fun.  We should all make baseless and/or hyperbolic claims as long as it fits our narrative!

this is over the line.

 

[moleculo]

January 6th and withholding funding isn't an issue voters care about.  There not a policy platform issue, there events.  

Immigration, Inflation, Foreign policy, crime, taxes, energy dependence, trade, climate...those are policy platform issues.  Again, what's so extreme.    

I remember a time when conservative voters at least pretended to care about law and order, morality, etc.  

 

[Snotbubbles]

I remember a time when conservative voters at least pretended to care about law and order, morality, etc.  

Well, in Virginia, those blue voters didn't care when they flipped a blue state red in 2021.  January 6th is an event.  It has as much relevance to a voter as Hunter Biden's laptop.  Only a small fringe cares.  People care about what policies the candidate will put forth that will effect their lives, that's what matters.  And MAGA (or whatever name you want to call conservatives) has pretty good policy positions.  AOC progressives have pretty bad ones, that's why they don't find support.

 

[supermike80]

Fix your party and this is less of an issue.

 

[BladeRunner]

So does Matt Gaetz have competition?

I don't know, does he?

 

[BladeRunner]

this is over the line.

You saw the post I was responding to, no?  No outrage over that one, though.  

I wonder why. 

Clearly you didn't think about it. 

 

[BladeRunner]

I remember a time when conservative voters at least pretended to care about law and order, morality, etc.  

Hah, look at this.  A pro-choice Democrat lecturing us about law, order and morality. 

I remember the Summer of Love too. 

 

[the moops]

And that’s not going to cut it in Red States, Republicans would vote for felons if they are pro life.

And Democrats would vote for pedophiles if they were pro-choice.

Hey, this is pretty fun.  We should all make baseless and/or hyperbolic claims as long as it fits our narrative!

A central Indiana man accused of murdering his wife and dumping her body in a creek in March has won a Republican primary election for township board in the state – from jail.

Andrew Wilhoite, 40, of Lebanon received 60 of the 276 total votes on Tuesday for Republicans for three positions on the Clinton township board, Boone county election results showed.

 

[BladeRunner]

A central Indiana man accused of murdering his wife and dumping her body in a creek in March has won a Republican primary election for township board in the state – from jail.

Andrew Wilhoite, 40, of Lebanon received 60 of the 276 total votes on Tuesday for Republicans for three positions on the Clinton township board, Boone county election results showed.

"And that’s not going to cut it in Red States, Republicans would vote for felons if they are pro life."

Does it mention his stance anywhere on pro-choice/pro-life?

 

[moleculo]

You saw the post I was responding to, no?  No outrage over that one, though.  

I wonder why. 

Clearly you didn't think about it. 

felons <> pedophiles.  HTH

 

[BladeRunner]

felons <> pedophiles.  HTH

Pedophilia is LITERALLY a felony.   

Excuses are loke ###holes - everyone has got one as to why it's okay for their bad behavior and hyperbolic rhetoric. 

also, Thanks for proving my point in your knee-jerk rush to defend you fellow liberal. 

Your selective outrage is telling.  So telling, that you literally missed the entire point of my post to go after me.

 

[timschochet]

Immigration, Inflation, Foreign policy, crime, taxes, energy dependence, trade, climate...those are policy platform issues.  Again, what's so extreme.    

It would take way too long for me to go over each of these and explain why Trump’s positions are extreme. And you would probably argue. 

So let me instead offer an explanation which encompasses all of these subjects: what makes MAGA so extreme is it’s simplistic, absolutist “my way or the highway” attitude. The reason that McKinley was defeated was because he worked with Democrats. to MAGA there is no greater sin. The Democrats are not people who disagree with you, they are the enemy. They are evil. And anyone who works with them is a traitor. 

Are there some Democrats who feel this sane way about Republicans? Sure. And no doubt somebody reading this will come up with some prominent examples; whataboutism is very strong in these parts. But the difference is that, at least to this point, the Democrats haven’t been taken over by absolutists. The Republicans have. 

 

[Shula-holic]

I don’t think I’m being selective when the numbers are this overwhelming. It’s not like there’s an even amount of people he endorses winning and losing: 55-3 is not very candidate specific. 

As I stated earlier, Trump's endorsement has sway.  In a tight race it most definitely can tip the scales.  But Trump has often said he likes to back winners and in many cases he does so when races are for the most part settled to get behind a nominee.  There are situations like Vance in OH where he did help put him immensely, no question.  All of that is given.

But let's not act like there were 55 or 56 truly contested races that Trump picked a candidate on and he ran the table.  I don't know about other state races, I do know about Mo Brooks.  Assuming he's the only one like this is pretty selective.  I'd be willing to bet if I spent 10 minutes on a Google search I could find you another example.  In fact, as I type this I don't need it.  Look at AL governor, Lindy Blanchard was his hand selected person to run for governor.  She was running for Senate but when Trump backed Brooks he asked her to switch to governor.  She did so and is currently polling around 10% last I checked.  So there's you two more without ever leaving my state.

You shouldn't take the 55 at face value like all 55 he had some effect on outcome, but not that there are most likely more situations like Brooks and Blanchard.  Nobody is disputing Trump's endorsement helps, but he isn't hand picking winners so much as he can give a boost to someone in a tight race.

 

[moleculo]

Pedophilia is LITERALLY a felony.   

Excuses are loke ###holes - everyone has got one as to why it's okay for their bad behavior and hyperbolic rhetoric. 

also, Thanks for proving my point in your knee-jerk rush to defend you fellow liberal. 

ok.  not worth continuing.

 

[Stealthycat]

use words like extreme if you want ....... but the Trump years were not the years of record gas, record inflation, Russia invading Ukraine, record spending, 650,000 dead from covid and counting, stock market tanking ........... that's what is happening right now under Biden years

 

[BladeRunner]

ok.  not worth continuing.

You bet it isn't because I was pointing out the problem and being satiracal about it, not making an actual statement I believe in.

 

[moleculo]

You bet it isn't because I was pointing out the problem and being satiracal about it, not making an actual statement I believe in.

nah, it's not worth a slap fight.  I bid you good day.

 

[BladeRunner]

nah, it's not worth a slap fight.  I bid you good day.

Yeah, but good day to you as well

Just remember what your first reaction was.

 

[timschochet]

As I stated earlier, Trump's endorsement has sway.  In a tight race it most definitely can tip the scales.  But Trump has often said he likes to back winners and in many cases he does so when races are for the most part settled to get behind a nominee.  There are situations like Vance in OH where he did help put him immensely, no question.  All of that is given.

But let's not act like there were 55 or 56 truly contested races that Trump picked a candidate on and he ran the table.  I don't know about other state races, I do know about Mo Brooks.  Assuming he's the only one like this is pretty selective.  I'd be willing to bet if I spent 10 minutes on a Google search I could find you another example.  In fact, as I type this I don't need it.  Look at AL governor, Lindy Blanchard was his hand selected person to run for governor.  She was running for Senate but when Trump backed Brooks he asked her to switch to governor.  She did so and is currently polling around 10% last I checked.  So there's you two more without ever leaving my state.

You shouldn't take the 55 at face value like all 55 he had some effect on outcome, but not that there are most likely more situations like Brooks and Blanchard.  Nobody is disputing Trump's endorsement helps, but he isn't hand picking winners so much as he can give a boost to someone in a tight race.

OK. I have a friend who believes Tom Brady is terribly overrated. My friend, who is a pretty smart guy, somehow always finds ways to explain how Brady’s major victories are not because of him, while his notable losses are because of his errors. This feels a lot like the same sort of argument. 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

You quoted one race and Shula quoted two races where you were wrong. That is the very opposite of "Trumps guys are winning more often than they're losing".

It's what we call math.

1-for-3 = winning!!!

(baseball math??)

 

[Shula-holic]

OK. I have a friend who believes Tom Brady is terribly overrated. My friend, who is a pretty smart guy, somehow always finds ways to explain how Brady’s major victories are not because of him, while his notable losses are because of his errors. This feels a lot like the same sort of argument. 

How so?  I didn't blame Trump for Blanchard or Brooks.  If you want me to say Trump's endorsement has value, I've given you that repeatedly.  

My stance is merely in the statistics of the results and what should be the given likelihood that if I can find two examples in one state, it's a statistical certainty other cases in other states exist.  You started this with the premise that Trump is 56-0, inferring he is essentially the king maker.  I've given you now four specific examples where he hasn't been.  I haven't even examined that number of 56 to determine how many of those were essentially de facto winners at the time of his endorsement.  

 

[Alex P Keaton]

You saw the post I was responding to, no?  No outrage over that one, though.  

I wonder why. 

Clearly you didn't think about it. 

Exactly.  It’s absurd to suggest that comment was over the line.  You clearly weren’t being serious - it was hyperbole to make a point.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

OK. I have a friend who believes Tom Brady is terribly overrated. My friend, who is a pretty smart guy, somehow always finds ways to explain how Brady’s major victories are not because of him, while his notable losses are because of his errors. This feels a lot like the same sort of argument. 

Sort of like seeing 1 example that supports your view and 2 that don’t…..and turning that into “see how right I am”?

 

[timschochet]

Sort of like seeing 1 example that supports your view and 2 that don’t…..and turning that into “see how right I am”?

No, sort of like seeing 55 examples that support my view and 2 that don’t. 

 

[ZADO]

Has anyone in these threads actually won over anyone on the opposing side with all the back n forths and debates ?

Same arguments over and over and over,its like running full force into a wall of iron and expecting it to dent .
 

 

[Shula-holic]

Has anyone in these threads actually won over anyone on the opposing side with all the back n forths and debates ?

Same arguments over and over and over,its like running full force into a wall of iron and expecting it to dent .
 

It's kind of like hitting the tennis ball against my parents' brick wall as a kid.  It was entertaining, but you couldn't win.

 

[timschochet]

How so?  I didn't blame Trump for Blanchard or Brooks.  If you want me to say Trump's endorsement has value, I've given you that repeatedly.  

My stance is merely in the statistics of the results and what should be the given likelihood that if I can find two examples in one state, it's a statistical certainty other cases in other states exist.  You started this with the premise that Trump is 56-0, inferring he is essentially the king maker.  I've given you now four specific examples where he hasn't been.  I haven't even examined that number of 56 to determine how many of those were essentially de facto winners at the time of his endorsement.  

I’m saying you can’t dismiss the fact that the vast majority of Trump’s endorsements are successful. You seem to be trying to explain that away, and focusing on the few times he’s failed. That’s why you remind me of my friend. 
 

There is an attempt here; by many traditional conservatives, to try and deny just how deeply MAGA has wormed its way into Republican politics. One way is to try and explain away Trump’s record of endorsement victories, which is pretty amazing. Another way is to argue that MAGA positions aren’t really extreme at all but mainstream conservatism. I don’t find either of these arguments to be very compelling. 

 

[John123]

Fix your party and this is less of an issue.

This.  I'll make this pledge right now - If Trump is running against Kamala or Biden in 2024 I'm voting for Trump.  Tim, you and your ilk can complain all you want about Trump but IMO the country was better off during his Presidency and on a better future track when Trump was President compared to what Biden has offered us in just under a year and a half.  Now cue up the 1/6 rhetoric.