Any Aquarium guys? (2 Viewers)

[TheFanatic]

ok, since i promised a few pics, i figured i better deliever.

As of now, the only thing in its final place is the rock formation i built. I will be moving the slate and wood around to diferent places, and will add the plants and maybe some other accessories later (im thinking of doing an air stone)

Ill post more tomorrow after i fill the tank, put a background on it and put in some more decorations.

Tank and Stand

Rock tower (its 7 inches high and pretty steady, although it may not look like it in the picture)

The wood(not the best picture)

The slate (i havent really stacked it high yet. Gotta work on it)

So thats all i have so far. Sorry about the flash on the pictures.

As for stocking, im thinking of going with the following

- 6 zebra dainos as the first fish

- 6 panda cories (or 3 pandas and 3 bronze or speckled if they will be ok like that) I might also go with 4 of each

- 1 Red tail black shark- i love these guys

- 10-12 tetras. I may go all neon, but might mix in some cardinals or black neons, as ive read they will shoal together

- I really like marble hatchet fish, and may get a shoal of 6 of them for the top of the tank

- probabaly some sort of gouramis. I like the paradise gouramis. Some of the dwarfs are cool too.

- 1 or 2 pair of some more docile chiclids. Maybe German Blue rams or Bolivian rams

Ill add slowly and stick to the 1 inch per gallon rule at first. If i feel i can push the stocking limits later (after i gain some experience) i may give that a shot to squeeze a few more fish in

Lots to cover here....You need a tall piece of driftwood ti hit the to reaches of the tank or some plants. I know exactly what you are going through here. My first big tank was a 45 high which is basically a 30 gallon tank with another 6-8 inches higher. I once stacked a ton of rock op the corner and one night....avalanche. Killed one of my fish. You should be good though...You may want to go with a dozen danios to start. You will lose a at least a few while the tank cycles. Feeder fish are better suited for this as they produce more waste to get the cycle going. But then the dilemna, do you flush the ones that survice the cycle or do you take the effort to take them back to the pet store to go back into a feeder tank to be fed to some larger fish?

Gotta love the pandas. I just got a few last night....You could easily go with 10-12 cories in a tank that size....Maybe even 15 if you wanted....

I don't see any compatibility problems with any of your fish. A word to the wise on the hatchets. Make sure there is NOT A SINGLE TINY GAP in the top of your tank. A sliver of space and those little jumpers will be on the floor. Otherwise a good fish to have something to catch the eye near the top of the tank....

Did you build that stand? If so, that's damn impressive. TLEF got skillz!?!?!

 

[TheFanatic]

after all the work ive done over the past few days, im really having trouble with the idea of doing a fishless cycle. I've worked hard at this and done a ton of research. Its gonna be hard staring at an empty tank and taking amonia readings for a month or so without seing results I think ill probably still do it, but just going with some hardy fish and adding very slowly is damn tempting, especially since a few of you guys do the same thing

Do you know anyone who has a big tank? If so go get some water from him and maybe a rock or to. Seriously. Go buy some 5 gallon gas cans and use them just for transporting water. I have a friend of mine that has been keeping fish for a few years and he has about 8 cans and I have 5. Between the two of us we can transport 65 gallons of tank water. If you could get a hold of say 30 gallons of cycled acquarium water and set up your tank for a few days with some feeders you would be ready to go in no time. Gotta seed the tank with all the good bacteria you need for a healthy aquarium. Even better if you could also put your filter on his/her tank for a week or so. Sure it will be pulling in some of the muck from his tank, but it will also really help speed your tank along....If you do it the slow way you have to suffer through the algae bloom and when your tank gets all cloudy and smells like #### for a few days. That's the most depressing time. And you can't do anything. Gotta just let it run its course....

 

[deacon14]

Man, I'm going to have to take a whole half day to read this entire thread. I've been doing African Cichlids (very hard) in three tanks for about ten years. Quickly, here is what I know...

1) Somebody already said it, That Fish Place That Pet Place is the best! If you are fortunate enough to live near Lancaster, PA, you are lucky.

2) Mollies are, generally, tough enough to live through a cycling. Grab a half dozen (and tell the fish store that you hope to return them) and let things go naturally.

3) Don't go crazy with meds. Typically, they mess with your cycle. The only thing I use in my tanks (other than salts, minerals and such to set the water conditions) is Melafix. The stuff is great and makes the tanks smell nice too. Helps fish with regeneration of tails/fins and marring/ramming injuries/marks.

4) If you have a 75g or higher, the absolute greatest population are Melanochromis Chipokae with Multipunctatus Synodontis catfish. I use additives to mirror the waters of Lake Malawi (even the occassional plant in my filters.) The only un-natural thing to the tank is a 7" black Pleco. The dude rawks and somehow thrives in the higher PH.

5) If you opt for the aggressive fish, you need COVER COVER COVER. If you think you have enough, add 50% more.

 

[Eli2Shockey]

after all the work ive done over the past few days, im really having trouble with the idea of doing a fishless cycle. I've worked hard at this and done a ton of research. Its gonna be hard staring at an empty tank and taking amonia readings for a month or so without seing results I think ill probably still do it, but just going with some hardy fish and adding very slowly is damn tempting, especially since a few of you guys do the same thing

Ever consider biosphere? It's a chemical that you dump in the tank and within minutes you can put fish in. It is sold at most fish stores but has to be kept in a fridge when not used.

 

[TLEF316]

No, i didnt build the stand. I mean, I built the stand, but it came in a box.

As for the cories, wont fifteen of them take up a whole lot my stocking limit. If you figure 1 inch per gallon,(say my tank will be 70 gallons after rocks and stuff) thats like 30 inches of just panda cories. (if i got 15 of them) I really like them, but im not sure i want them to make up over 40% of my tank,

As for those bacteria in a bottle products, every place ive read says they are pretty much crap. Assuming that they actually did, at one time actually work, any bacteria in there has died during shipping, as i doubt it has been refrigerated the whole time.

Good idea about a tall piece of drift wood. Ill look around today.

and no, i dont know anyone with a big tank. If i did, i would definetly try to borrow some mature filter media to jump start my cycle. Did you really jump start a tank with someone else's water? Everything ive read said that the bacteria that process amonia arent free swiming, so tankwater is basically useless.

Maybe i should just cycle with some hardy fish. Its pretty damn tempting.

 

[TLEF316]

so overall, it looks like several of you guys cycle with fish (and obviously with some success) Should i just grab some zebras and have at it?

 

[deacon14]

Yes, it's natures way.

You can also add some Ammo-lock if you feel bad about it. The change in molecular structure makes that first part of the cycle easier on the fish without hurting the process. Really, it's the second phase (the nitrite part) that is more dangerous anyway.

Good Luck!

 

[TheFanatic]

No, i didnt build the stand. I mean, I built the stand, but it came in a box.

As for the cories, wont fifteen of them take up a whole lot my stocking limit. If you figure 1 inch per gallon,(say my tank will be 70 gallons after rocks and stuff) thats like 30 inches of just panda cories. (if i got 15 of them) I really like them, but im not sure i want them to make up over 40% of my tank,

As for those bacteria in a bottle products, every place ive read says they are pretty much crap. Assuming that they actually did, at one time actually work, any bacteria in there has died during shipping, as i doubt it has been refrigerated the whole time.

Good idea about a tall piece of drift wood. Ill look around today.

and no, i dont know anyone with a big tank. If i did, i would definetly try to borrow some mature filter media to jump start my cycle. Did you really jump start a tank with someone else's water? Everything ive read said that the bacteria that process amonia arent free swiming, so tankwater is basically useless.

Maybe i should just cycle with some hardy fish. Its pretty damn tempting.

2 inch cories are monsters. I've seen some brocchus cats (very similar to cories) but most cories never exceed an inch. Guapore cories are a little elongated but very rare. The inch of fish rule is a pretty bad reference. If you have ten 1 inch tetras, do you think they put out the same kind of waste and consume the same amount of oxygen as a 10 inch oscar?

If you are sticking with the smaller schooling fish, you can throw that rule out the window. That tank could easily support 15 cories, 20 neons, 15 hatchets, 10 emperor tetras, a couple of rare plecos, 3 red tail sharks, 8 bolivian rams, and 6 dwarf gouramis with room to spare. The biggest polluters would be the plecos and the gouramis as they got bigger....

If you were throwing some big cichlids in there you need to be much more conservative. Besides, I can't wait till you have this tank stocked and you are trying to count how many fish you have in each school to see if you can put in another school or if you need to replenish the stocks of those schoolse. It's kinda like herding cats.

The hobby is much more about feel than it is about absolutes....

As for cycling a tank with someone else's water. Haven't done it. I haven't had tocycle a tank in 20 years. I just take as much of my water with me as well as all the gravel, filters, rocks etc when I move. Clean the filters about 2 weeks before you move because you don't want to do it right after you move the tank. You want all that bacteria.

I also mentioned getting some rock from someone who has a tank. That will be loaded with the bacteria. And filter media full of it is even better as the water will flow over that bacteria more than over the rock. The necessity of the water is that it is properly conditioned and ready to go and thus it won't be as much of a strain on the fish you throw in there.

Since no one is volunteering to host pics of my tanks, PM me with an email addy and I will send you a couple of pics....

 

[Minotauro]

Since no one is volunteering to host pics of my tanks, PM me with an email addy and I will send you a couple of pics....

imageshack.us

 

[TheFanatic]

Since no one is volunteering to host pics of my tanks, PM me with an email addy and I will send you a couple of pics....

imageshack.us

Never used Image Shack other than perusing the who's hottest threads.Here goes.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/urlhttp://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/url]

 

[Minotauro]

Never used Image Shack other than perusing the who's hottest threads.

Here goes.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/urlhttp://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/url]

That worked, but you don't need to use the IMG tags. Just do a regular link to the imageshack page it gives you.Cool tank.

 

[TheFanatic]

Never used Image Shack other than perusing the who's hottest threads.

Here goes.

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/urlhttp://img105.imageshack.us/img105/561/55withbackgroundim8.th.jpg[/IMG[/url]

That worked, but you don't need to use the IMG tags. Just do a regular link to the imageshack page it gives you.Cool tank.

I figured that after the fact, but hey, it was my first time. It was going to be messy and a little painful...Thanks....

 

[TLEF316]

fanatic, your tank is amazing. Thats an airstone in the middle shooting up all those bubbles, right? I was thinking of doing one of those.

i just got back from the pet store (again) picked up a background, a thermometer and some taller plants (16 and 20 inches i think) they are a redish color, so they should add a little bit of life.

i also almost picked up an extra- large one of these

im thinking of getting some sort of tree-trunk type thing to replace the slate in the left corner. I think having the 2 corners stacked with rocks looks too symetrical. Also, i dont think ill be able to stack the slate high enough for it to look very good.

keep the tank pics and advice coming coming guys. Im gonna finish washing the sand and fill the tank this afternoon. Ill post more pics when it's filled and decorated

edit: and wow, could i really have that many fish? From what ive read on tropicalfishforums that would be MASSIVE overstocking. Im not saying you're wrong, but your opinion is definetly in the minority. But from what ive read, i think the people over there are a tad conservative, and tend to exagerrate how big fish get (hence my idea that panda cories grow to 2 inches a piece)

 

[TheFanatic]

fanatic, your tank is amazing. Thats an airstone in the middle shooting up all those bubbles, right? I was thinking of doing one of those.

i just got back from the pet store (again) picked up a background, a thermometer and some taller plants (16 and 20 inches i think) they are a redish color, so they should add a little bit of life.

i also almost picked up an extra- large one of these

im thinking of getting some sort of tree-trunk type thing to replace the slate in the left corner. I think having the 2 corners stacked with rocks looks too symetrical. Also, i dont think ill be able to stack the slate high enough for it to look very good.

keep the tank pics and advice coming coming guys. Im gonna finish washing the sand and fill the tank this afternoon. Ill post more pics when it's filled and decorated

edit: and wow, could i really have that many fish? From what ive read on tropicalfishforums that would be MASSIVE overstocking. Im not saying you're wrong, but your opinion is definetly in the minority. But from what ive read, i think the people over there are a tad conservative, and tend to exagerrate how big fish get (hence my idea that panda cories grow to 2 inches a piece)

Thanks for the compliment. As for the overcrowding. Think about it. A 10 inch Oscar weighs a pound or two. 10 Serpae tetras weigh about 2 ounces all together. Nearly every fish I mentioned doesn't get more than an inch long. An inch long neon tretra is a giant. Most are about a half to 3/4. Bolivian rams get maybe 2 inches long. The plecos and gouramis have the most likelihood of obtaining any size. A panda female might exceed an inch but won't make it to 2. The males will probably never see a full inch. Red Tailed Sharks might get to 3 inches, but it will take about 8 years. They grow about as slow as clown loaches. I have two 3 inch clown loaches in my 55 that are getting close to 10 years old. It's an inch of standard length fish. That means you don't include the caudal fin (tail fin)

Like I said earlier, with the fake plants clump various size plants that are identical types in a bunch. That's about as natural as it gets. Once a little algae accumulates on the leaves it looks pretty realistic. Placing a single 20 inch fake plant by itself that has 3 20 inch branches and a couple shorter branches doesn look all that realistic....

 

[TLEF316]

Im certainly inclined to believe you on the size of fish. But if thats the case, why do all the online resources say they get so much bigger. On every site ive seen, the pandas are listed at 2-2.5 inches, the red fin shark up to 6 inches, clown loaches as big as 12 inches, Bolivian Rams 3-3.5 ect.

My question is, why would these resources exagerate so much?

 

[TLEF316]

filling now

 

[TheFanatic]

Im certainly inclined to believe you on the size of fish. But if thats the case, why do all the online resources say they get so much bigger. On every site ive seen, the pandas are listed at 2-2.5 inches, the red fin shark up to 6 inches, clown loaches as big as 12 inches, Bolivian Rams 3-3.5 ect.My question is, why would these resources exagerate so much?

Clown loaches do get 12 inches. I've been doing this for more than 20 years and I've never seen anything bigger than 6 in a regular aquarium. Shedd Aquarium in Chicago has a 1000 gallon tank with a bunch that are a foot long. You will never see that in your tank or any home tank.The total length of these fish is based on what they could get in the wild. Most don't reach that. The maximum length of a Clown Knife is 39 inches. I've seen something close to that, again at Shedd, but never in a home tank. I have never seen a two inch cory cat. Period. An inch long cory is big. As for the Bolivian Rams....That's one fish I have never actually owned (not many on that list) but from what I have read they generally don't get much bigger than 2 inches. Most books list Oscars with a maximum length of 14 inches. 14 inches is mammoth (not including the tail). 10-12 is more the norm. Maybe your resources aren't taking into account standard length and actually counting the tail. But still, 12 inches for a clown loach will only be achieved in a public aquarium....

 

[TheFanatic]

Another pic from directly in front

 

[TLEF316]

well, today was a long day. Despite a small setback, i managed to get the tank set up. (although decor is subject to change. The water is a little cloudy, so you cant see the background very well. Anyway, here is a picture. For my first effort, im pretty proud of it.

My tank

 

[TheFanatic]

well, today was a long day. Despite a small setback, i managed to get the tank set up. (although decor is subject to change. The water is a little cloudy, so you cant see the background very well. Anyway, here is a picture. For my first effort, im pretty proud of it.

My tank

Looks fantastic. I must say, in all my years I have never done sand. It looks really cool. Does the flow of the filter disrupt the sand? I was worried about a power filter and the sand. After looking at the picks of my tank I realized that my school of serpeas and tiger barbs was looking a little thin. Bought 4 more Serpaes to go up to 9 (I think - counting schooling fish isn't easy) and my tiger barbs is up to 7.

One more note. For those of you that are worried that live plants require a lot. The pics I provided are of a tank with a single lightstrip that came with the tank. All I do is not use any carbon in the filter and fertilize as well as regular water changes....And the plants in that tank consist of two kinds. Amazon swords and Crypt. Wendtii. No C02, no extra light. It does get a fair amount of natural light but no direct sunlight. I thought about adding some annubias. But it's pretty full now. Maybe something low growing that I can put in front....any suggestions?

 

[TLEF316]

thanks. i really worked hard. im glad it came out ok.

As for sand and the filter, i dont know yet, because the filter isnt on. However, from everything ive read, it will be ok once it settles.

Just gotta make sure i turn off the filter when vacuming.

 

[TLEF316]

any opinions on that tree root looking thing, or an airstone? I think some bubbles would be cool

 

[TheFanatic]

any opinions on that tree root looking thing, or an airstone? I think some bubbles would be cool

The root thing is all right. Seem sort of contrived. I would just find a honkin' piece of drift wood and plant that sucker in the tank. I have an airstone in every tank. Always have it parked under a piece of slate so that it trickles up the slate and then to the surface. An airstone increases water movement and most importantly oxygenates the water.Why not do both - Chunk of wood and an airstone?

 

[TLEF316]

any opinions on that tree root looking thing, or an airstone? I think some bubbles would be cool

The root thing is all right. Seem sort of contrived. I would just find a honkin' piece of drift wood and plant that sucker in the tank. I have an airstone in every tank. Always have it parked under a piece of slate so that it trickles up the slate and then to the surface. An airstone increases water movement and most importantly oxygenates the water.Why not do both - Chunk of wood and an airstone?

yeah, thats sort of what i was thinking. I think ill definetly do the air stone. As for the root thing, i guess ill hold off. I just think it would be cool to have something that tall with tons of hiding places. Im sure the fish would have a blast weaving in and out of it. if i could ever find an actual piece of wood that looked sort of like that, id be set. Unfortunatly, i live in the New Jersey subburbs, so i dont find driftwood when i walk out the front door.

 

[TheFanatic]

any opinions on that tree root looking thing, or an airstone? I think some bubbles would be cool

The root thing is all right. Seem sort of contrived. I would just find a honkin' piece of drift wood and plant that sucker in the tank. I have an airstone in every tank. Always have it parked under a piece of slate so that it trickles up the slate and then to the surface. An airstone increases water movement and most importantly oxygenates the water.

Why not do both - Chunk of wood and an airstone?

yeah, thats sort of what i was thinking. I think ill definetly do the air stone. As for the root thing, i guess ill hold off. I just think it would be cool to have something that tall with tons of hiding places. Im sure the fish would have a blast weaving in and out of it.

if i could ever find an actual piece of wood that looked sort of like that, id be set. Unfortunatly, i live in the New Jersey subburbs, so i dont find driftwood when i walk out the front door.

Go find a pet store. Find a cool piece of driftwood that is basically a center stump that forks into 2 or more branches. Take it home. Soak it in a bucket for a few days (swapping out the water as often as possible) and then put the piece of wood in the tank upside down. You will have the effect you want without the contrived look. This exact set up is the center piece of my 110 gallon tank....Oh, and an air stone will give you something else in the tank tha reaches the top of the tank....

 

[singman]

After reading the thread and seeing what you put into these freshwater tanks my only question is why not a reef tank?



I always thought the appeal of freshwater was that it was a lot less work than a reef. That was the appeal to me when I was a kid anyway. If you are going to do this much work why not start a reef? There is no tank in this thread that remotely compares to this:

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/fro...ank0509Cntr.jpg

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/fro...nt=CntrCave.jpg

http://s88.photobucket.com/albums/k200/fro...nt=FullTank.jpg

 

[TLEF316]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

 

[singman]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

 

[TheFanatic]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

 

[singman]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

Bi-weekly water changes like all tanks and occasional water tests. Possibly Calcium drip for certain SPS corals or clams....................Empty out skimmer cup and that's about it. Set your lights on a timer, get an auto feeder, auto top off for water loss.

 

[TheFanatic]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

Bi-weekly water changes like all tanks and occasional water tests. Possibly Calcium drip for certain SPS corals or clams....................Empty out skimmer cup and that's about it. Set your lights on a timer, get an auto feeder, auto top off for water loss.

I've done salt water changes. Couple of buckets took me as long as it takes me to do my 110 and 55 combined.....I'll stick with the freshwater. I'm good with what I've got....

 

[singman]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

Bi-weekly water changes like all tanks and occasional water tests. Possibly Calcium drip for certain SPS corals or clams....................Empty out skimmer cup and that's about it. Set your lights on a timer, get an auto feeder, auto top off for water loss.

I've done salt water changes. Couple of buckets took me as long as it takes me to do my 110 and 55 combined.....I'll stick with the freshwater. I'm good with what I've got....

Well first of all I am not trying to convert you... If you are happy with fresh that's cool, but I see a lot of folks wanting salt and being scared off by others who simply don't know what they are talking about. I do bi-weekly 15 gallon water changes on my 75 gallon reef. I have an RO unit hooked up to my main water supply with a 20 gallon holding tank. Simply add the salt a few days before the change and make the switch. total water change.......10 minutes. With a Fish Only With Live Rock tank and no complicated corals you only have water changes and the emptying of the skimmer collection cup. Not a life changing work schedule.Out of curiousity - what percentage of the water do you change on your tank? I think I read most of the water.........Why such a large change?

 

[TheFanatic]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

Bi-weekly water changes like all tanks and occasional water tests. Possibly Calcium drip for certain SPS corals or clams....................Empty out skimmer cup and that's about it. Set your lights on a timer, get an auto feeder, auto top off for water loss.

I've done salt water changes. Couple of buckets took me as long as it takes me to do my 110 and 55 combined.....I'll stick with the freshwater. I'm good with what I've got....

Well first of all I am not trying to convert you... If you are happy with fresh that's cool, but I see a lot of folks wanting salt and being scared off by others who simply don't know what they are talking about. I do bi-weekly 15 gallon water changes on my 75 gallon reef. I have an RO unit hooked up to my main water supply with a 20 gallon holding tank. Simply add the salt a few days before the change and make the switch. total water change.......10 minutes. With a Fish Only With Live Rock tank and no complicated corals you only have water changes and the emptying of the skimmer collection cup. Not a life changing work schedule.Out of curiousity - what percentage of the water do you change on your tank? I think I read most of the water.........Why such a large change?

I'm talking just a couple of buckets. It was about 15-20%. Had to get the PH right, the buffer right, the salinity right, and the temp right. If the first three take too long then I had to go back and add more warm water to get the temp right again and then all the levels of the first 3 were off. And think about your outlay. You have an RO system as well as a Protein Skimmer. I'm guessing a filter as well. And the corals are not cheap at all. Those pics you posted are not of some tank that cost $400. Not a chance in hell....Also, I'll take my lush green planted tank or extremely colorful African tank up against what was shown all day long. I don't know if it was the lighting or the picture but the three pics don't look all that impressive to me....

 

[Irish]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

You would be the first person I have ever met that has said that keeping a salt tank was very little work....

Bi-weekly water changes like all tanks and occasional water tests. Possibly Calcium drip for certain SPS corals or clams....................Empty out skimmer cup and that's about it. Set your lights on a timer, get an auto feeder, auto top off for water loss.

I've done salt water changes. Couple of buckets took me as long as it takes me to do my 110 and 55 combined.....I'll stick with the freshwater. I'm good with what I've got....

Well first of all I am not trying to convert you... If you are happy with fresh that's cool, but I see a lot of folks wanting salt and being scared off by others who simply don't know what they are talking about. I do bi-weekly 15 gallon water changes on my 75 gallon reef. I have an RO unit hooked up to my main water supply with a 20 gallon holding tank. Simply add the salt a few days before the change and make the switch. total water change.......10 minutes. With a Fish Only With Live Rock tank and no complicated corals you only have water changes and the emptying of the skimmer collection cup. Not a life changing work schedule.Out of curiousity - what percentage of the water do you change on your tank? I think I read most of the water.........Why such a large change?

I'm talking just a couple of buckets. It was about 15-20%. Had to get the PH right, the buffer right, the salinity right, and the temp right. If the first three take too long then I had to go back and add more warm water to get the temp right again and then all the levels of the first 3 were off. And think about your outlay. You have an RO system as well as a Protein Skimmer. I'm guessing a filter as well. And the corals are not cheap at all. Those pics you posted are not of some tank that cost $400. Not a chance in hell....Also, I'll take my lush green planted tank or extremely colorful African tank up against what was shown all day long. I don't know if it was the lighting or the picture but the three pics don't look all that impressive to me....

I would love to have a nice saltwater setup, but I will have to wait until my retirement years to devote the time and money. The cost of live rock is pretty expensive by itself. I have a 75 gallon african cichlid tank that I get compliments on that the fish are very colorful like saltwater fish.

 

[singman]

I'm talking just a couple of buckets. It was about 15-20%. Had to get the PH right, the buffer right, the salinity right, and the temp right. If the first three take too long then I had to go back and add more warm water to get the temp right again and then all the levels of the first 3 were off.

RO unit ($80 for a decent unit) no need to for PH testing. Buffer? Exact salinity is not nesessary and Exact temp is not necessary for a 15% water change. Especially if you are utilizing a sump.

And think about your outlay. You have an RO system as well as a Protein Skimmer. I'm guessing a filter as well. And the corals are not cheap at all. Those pics you posted are not of some tank that cost $400. Not a chance in hell....

RO = $80 for a decent unit with all the hookups.

Skimmer = Bak Pak for $40

Filter = Aquaclear

That was not my tank. Another members tank off of michiganreefers.com which is my area.

As far as coral cost: There is no way you buy corals from a shop. Find a local marine group in your area and attend a frag swap. Members frag or prune their corals and trade with fellow reefers. With patience to let your corals grow you can have a tank full of softies for under $100. Same thing with live rock. In a shop $7/lb. You can find it from fellow reefers for $2/lb.

Also, I'll take my lush green planted tank or extremely colorful African tank up against what was shown all day long. I don't know if it was the lighting or the picture but the three pics don't look all that impressive to me....

Again, different strokes for different folks. Those pictures were taken under power compact daylights. The corals really show under actinics. I am not trying to say salt water tanks are "better" than fresh water tanks or anything like that. Certainly people have their personal preferences. I kept pirahnas for years and my kids loved them. I am just saying many beginners look at salt water tanks as impossible or at the very least extremely hard to maintain and that simply isn't the case.

Here is a set of pics fromanother members 50g. Some pics of his corals under actinics:

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42333

 

[TLEF316]

more than a day later and the cloudiness still hasnt improved. Any ideas? I dont want to turn the filter on, as there is obviously alot of sand floating throughout the tank, which will clog it up.

Any products i could buy? Should i just do a large water change?

 

[singman]

more than a day later and the cloudiness still hasnt improved. Any ideas? I dont want to turn the filter on, as there is obviously alot of sand floating throughout the tank, which will clog it up.Any products i could buy? Should i just do a large water change?

If you have a hang on back filter I would go ahead and turn it on. Get the cloudiness taken care of and simply clean the filter real good of all the sand. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but in the future when filling the tank either cover the sand with plastic before putting in the water and when filled simply remove or set a large bowl in the center and add the water into that. As the water goes over the sides it will fill the tank and minimize the sand cloud. As the water level rises the bowl will float upwards to allow you to continue to fill into.BTW - I don't know how much you paid for sand but you can go to dr. foster and get heavier sand for a decent price. Helps alot when you introduce flow to your tank. where are you from Tlef?

 

[TLEF316]

i have a fairly large rock in the center of the tank. i poured all the water onto that (although i missed a few times)

I think the main reason for the cloudiness is that i had to add a little extra sand after i filled (didnt have enough to cover all the plant bases and keep it deep enough all over) I added this extra sand the best way i could (put in a seeled ziplock bag and didnt open it until it was on the bottom of the tank) but i still moved a ton of sand around when adding the plants and stuff, so i can understand why it is cloudy.

So are you saying i should just run my filter, and then take it out and clean the hell out of it after the cloudiness is cleared up?

I also need to run to the store for some extra filter media. My filter (aquaclear 110) came with a big sponge, some sort of bar of charcoal and a bag of ceramic rings. However, ive read that the charcoal is pretty much useless (unless you are trying to remove medication) and i should replace it wth something else. Any suggestions?

thanks again

 

[TLEF316]

where are you from Tlef?

central jersey, a little more than an hour from NYC

 

[TheFanatic]

Again, different strokes for different folks. Those pictures were taken under power compact daylights. The corals really show under actinics. I am not trying to say salt water tanks are "better" than fresh water tanks or anything like that. Certainly people have their personal preferences. I kept pirahnas for years and my kids loved them. I am just saying many beginners look at salt water tanks as impossible or at the very least extremely hard to maintain and that simply isn't the case.

Here is a set of pics fromanother members 50g. Some pics of his corals under actinics:

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42333

I hear all that you are saying about how inexpensive it is, but that's a load of crap. It is much more expensive to keep a salt tank than a freshwater tank.

 

[TheFanatic]

more than a day later and the cloudiness still hasnt improved. Any ideas? I dont want to turn the filter on, as there is obviously alot of sand floating throughout the tank, which will clog it up.Any products i could buy? Should i just do a large water change?

Try a little patience. This is the hardest part. Wait a couple of days before you do anything...

 

[TLEF316]

more than a day later and the cloudiness still hasnt improved. Any ideas? I dont want to turn the filter on, as there is obviously alot of sand floating throughout the tank, which will clog it up.Any products i could buy? Should i just do a large water change?

Try a little patience. This is the hardest part. Wait a couple of days before you do anything...

will do. I just get frustrated knowing that its basically adding on yet a few more days until i can add fish.

 

[singman]

i have a fairly large rock in the center of the tank. i poured all the water onto that (although i missed a few times) I think the main reason for the cloudiness is that i had to add a little extra sand after i filled (didnt have enough to cover all the plant bases and keep it deep enough all over) I added this extra sand the best way i could (put in a seeled ziplock bag and didnt open it until it was on the bottom of the tank) but i still moved a ton of sand around when adding the plants and stuff, so i can understand why it is cloudy. So are you saying i should just run my filter, and then take it out and clean the hell out of it after the cloudiness is cleared up? I also need to run to the store for some extra filter media. My filter (aquaclear 110) came with a big sponge, some sort of bar of charcoal and a bag of ceramic rings. However, ive read that the charcoal is pretty much useless (unless you are trying to remove medication) and i should replace it wth something else. Any suggestions?thanks again

A) If you want to run the filter to speed up the diminishment of the sand cloud go right ahead. You will not hurt your filter. Just be sure to clean the heck out of it when you are done and replace the media.B) that is not charcoal. That is carbon and is used to clarify your water so run it.

 

[singman]

Again, different strokes for different folks. Those pictures were taken under power compact daylights. The corals really show under actinics. I am not trying to say salt water tanks are "better" than fresh water tanks or anything like that. Certainly people have their personal preferences. I kept pirahnas for years and my kids loved them. I am just saying many beginners look at salt water tanks as impossible or at the very least extremely hard to maintain and that simply isn't the case.

Here is a set of pics fromanother members 50g. Some pics of his corals under actinics:

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42333

I hear all that you are saying about how inexpensive it is, but that's a load of crap. It is much more expensive to keep a salt tank than a freshwater tank.

Show me a post where I said the word "inexpensive". Can't do it can you? I agree it is more expensive to keep a salt tank than a fresh but the gap is not unmanageable.

 

[TLEF316]

i have a fairly large rock in the center of the tank. i poured all the water onto that (although i missed a few times) I think the main reason for the cloudiness is that i had to add a little extra sand after i filled (didnt have enough to cover all the plant bases and keep it deep enough all over) I added this extra sand the best way i could (put in a seeled ziplock bag and didnt open it until it was on the bottom of the tank) but i still moved a ton of sand around when adding the plants and stuff, so i can understand why it is cloudy. So are you saying i should just run my filter, and then take it out and clean the hell out of it after the cloudiness is cleared up? I also need to run to the store for some extra filter media. My filter (aquaclear 110) came with a big sponge, some sort of bar of charcoal and a bag of ceramic rings. However, ive read that the charcoal is pretty much useless (unless you are trying to remove medication) and i should replace it wth something else. Any suggestions?thanks again

A) If you want to run the filter to speed up the diminishment of the sand cloud go right ahead. You will not hurt your filter. Just be sure to clean the heck out of it when you are done and replace the media.B) that is not charcoal. That is carbon and is used to clarify your water so run it.

yah, i meant carbon. Ive been over at fishforums.net alot, and the prevailing theory about the carbon is that A) it slows down the fishless cycle. B) it loses its effectiveness VERY quickly (as in less than a week) and is really only usefull if you want to remove meds.

 

[singman]

i have a fairly large rock in the center of the tank. i poured all the water onto that (although i missed a few times) I think the main reason for the cloudiness is that i had to add a little extra sand after i filled (didnt have enough to cover all the plant bases and keep it deep enough all over) I added this extra sand the best way i could (put in a seeled ziplock bag and didnt open it until it was on the bottom of the tank) but i still moved a ton of sand around when adding the plants and stuff, so i can understand why it is cloudy. So are you saying i should just run my filter, and then take it out and clean the hell out of it after the cloudiness is cleared up? I also need to run to the store for some extra filter media. My filter (aquaclear 110) came with a big sponge, some sort of bar of charcoal and a bag of ceramic rings. However, ive read that the charcoal is pretty much useless (unless you are trying to remove medication) and i should replace it wth something else. Any suggestions?thanks again

A) If you want to run the filter to speed up the diminishment of the sand cloud go right ahead. You will not hurt your filter. Just be sure to clean the heck out of it when you are done and replace the media.B) that is not charcoal. That is carbon and is used to clarify your water so run it.

yah, i meant carbon. Ive been over at fishforums.net alot, and the prevailing theory about the carbon is that A) it slows down the fishless cycle. B) it loses its effectiveness VERY quickly (as in less than a week) and is really only usefull if you want to remove meds.

That could be. I have always used it for cloudiness when filling a tank.

 

[KGB]

well I just moved and got inspired by this thread. I have a great spot and am going to jump in. my only experience is that I had a 10 gallon when I was a kid. all my fish were dissappearing and I figured it was just one eatig them all. then the last fish was gone. i was like WTF!Turns out they committed suicide by jumping out of the tank. I had a cover on it but where the hoses came in there was just enough room to squeeze out I guess. It was like finding nemo except they didnt know there was no large body of water behind my table, just dust and other dead fishes.so, did I read right that there is no maintenance on a saltwater tank with plants. I want low maintenance. What size tank should I get for 44 inches across? great thread btw. lots of info, almost too much, im getting confused.

44 inches is tough. 48 inches and you are golden. Otherwise you are looking at a 45 high or even better a 58. Both are 36 inches. Planted salt tanks? Most people go with corals or live rock or both. Planting a salt tank seems kinda tough. And salt tanks are not maintenance free. You will be scraping algae every single night no matter what you put in there to prevent that if you have your light on for more than an hour or so. They have some great new algae scraper products tho....

as far as planted salt tanks, like i said Im a newbie. Im about to draft a kicker in the first round because noone has taken the #1 guy in that catagory yet well, i CAN fit 48". I just have some light switches in the way, but I can block them. so lets assume 48 is a go. What size tank (in gallons) should I be looking for?craigs list seems to be a goldmine for used fishtanks too.Im gonna have to reread this thread and take some notes I think. Any AZ guys know a good store for livestock?

 

[KGB]

Oh,

And WTF is live rock? besides def leppard in the 80s

 

[TheFanatic]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

This is where you said it was pretty cheap. $400 is pretty inexpensive for this hobby no matter tha salinity....Move on. We're here to walk TLEF through his journey with his first tank not hear you preach the virtues of Salt....Move on....

 

[TLEF316]

i appreciate any and all advice from experienced fish keepers. However, i really find it hard to believe that it only cost you $400 bucks to set up and stock a saltwater tank. Unless we are talking 1975, i really dont believe it.