Any Aquarium guys? (1 Viewer)

[singman]

the chemistry is much more dificult and its a much more expensive set up.

Actually both untrue. I only bring this up because this is your first tank. If marine is something you actually wanted but did not go with because of the above mentioned reasons you made a mistake.My first reef tank was a 37 gallon way back when and it cost me about $400 total for fish, corals and everything. Was also very easy to maintain with very little work and all of my corals were healthy and grew like weeds.

This is where you said it was pretty cheap. $400 is pretty inexpensive for this hobby no matter tha salinity....Move on. We're here to walk TLEF through his journey with his first tank not hear you preach the virtues of Salt....Move on....

A) I am not going anywhere. Get used to it and deal with it.B) I am not preachingC) If you want no other comments than you giving TLEF cluless advice under the guise of "experience" do it by PM. This is a "public" forum. Say it with me ppppppuuuuubbbbblllliiiccc.$400 is indeed inexpensive when you don't know any better. I can PM you a link to a local tank in New Jersey where TLEF is from right now for $250. It is a complete setup minus livestock and even comes with a UV sterilizer and a custom made stand and canopy. Within the same local forum you can also obtain free corals right now. Never have I preached the virtues of salt or made any derogatory comments towards you or any others. I simply pointed out that salt is an affordable option should you choose to want to pursue that option. For that you resorted to demeening "move on" comments. Kind of sad.By the way there is someone asking for salt water advice with in this thread right now. Should he go away as well? Maybe he is not allowed to post here either.

 

[singman]

i appreciate any and all advice from experienced fish keepers. However, i really find it hard to believe that it only cost you $400 bucks to set up and stock a saltwater tank. Unless we are talking 1975, i really dont believe it.

It is because you don't know any better. I understand you want fresh and that is cool. Whatever is right for you. But check out the link I sent you. In the New Jersey forum, the 4th thread down posted on 5/15 there is a 50 gallon tank. Comes with a maple stand and canopy. PC lighting, a wetdry filter with skimmer heater and return pump. 2 powerheads and filter. Everything you need for a salt tank. $250 or best offer. Also with in the same forum there is someone giving away free softy corals. In the other New Jersey forum there is a guy with good coraline covered Live rock for $2/lb. Heck $400 was actually a high estimate. Now how much was your 75? Tell me again how salt is way more expensive than fresh.oops ETA - how about a 6ft 125 complete with corals for $700?

 

[singman]

You will be scraping algae every single night no matter what you put in there to prevent that if you have your light on for more than an hour or so. They have some great new algae scraper products tho....

as far as planted salt tanks, like i said Im a newbie. Im about to draft a kicker in the first round because noone has taken the #1 guy in that catagory yet

well, i CAN fit 48". I just have some light switches in the way, but I can block them. so lets assume 48 is a go. What size tank (in gallons) should I be looking for?

craigs list seems to be a goldmine for used fishtanks too.

Im gonna have to reread this thread and take some notes I think. Any AZ guys know a good store for livestock?

First of all nobody with any kind of experience would say this:

"You will be scraping algae every single night no matter what you put in there to prevent that if you have your light on for more than an hour or so. They have some great new algae scraper products tho...."

That's just plain dumb. Phosphate + light = algae. ALL algae. That's 9th grade science. No phosphate = no algae. RO water = no phosphate. as long as you don't run metal halide lighting 24 hours a day you will have minumum algae at worst.

Anyway. I can send you links by PM to 4 or 5 local AZ forums for all the information you need for local trustworthy fish stores and I can get you started if you want any saltwater tank advice. Send me a PM if you would like.

BTW - stay away from craigslist. Your local guys will be better to deal with and can also give you good advice.

 

[TLEF316]

i didnt want to just buy somebody else's tank. I wanted to build a setup from almost scratch and make it my own. Even though has been frustrating at times, im very glad i did it. I dont know why anyone would want to buy somebody else's tank and just stick it in their house.

My main attraction to doing this was building something from the ground up. Hell, if i had the knowledge and time to build the tank/stand, i probably would have done that too. Personally, i would take no pleasure at all in buying someone else's setup. Maybe thats just me.

I've been doing research on this for about a month now, on message boards, a few local shops and speaking to people i know, and you are the only one who is making the claim that keeping a reef tank isnt a major bump in work load.

Again, i appreciate anything that anyone wants to contribute, but please keep it constructive.

edit: Who in their right mind would start their "journey" into fish keeping with a 6 foot reef tank. I dont care what kind of bargain it is, thats just silly. IMO, thats the equivalent of teaching a 16 year old how to drive in a Ferrari.

 

[singman]

i didnt want to just buy somebody else's tank. I wanted to build a setup from almost scratch and make it my own. Even though has been frustrating at times, im very glad i did it. I dont know why anyone would want to buy somebody else's tank and just stick it in their house. My main attraction to doing this was building something from the ground up. Hell, if i had the knowledge and time to build the tank/stand, i probably would have done that too. Personally, i would take no pleasure at all in buying someone else's setup. Maybe thats just me. I've been doing research on this for about a month now, on message boards, a few local shops and speaking to people i know, and you are the only one who is making the claim that keeping a reef tank isnt a major bump in work load.Again, i appreciate anything that anyone wants to contribute, but please keep it constructive.edit: Who in their right mind would start their "journey" into fish keeping with a 6 foot reef tank. I dont care what kind of bargain it is, thats just silly. IMO, thats the equivalent of teaching a 16 year old how to drive in a Ferrari.

I don't quite know how to respond to that but I respect your opinion anyway. Good luck and if there is any other questions you have I would be happy to help. It is up to you wether you listen or not but my advice would be to get with a local group for either fresh or salt. They are a great source of information.

 

[singman]

edit: Who in their right mind would start their "journey" into fish keeping with a 6 foot reef tank. I dont care what kind of bargain it is, thats just silly. IMO, thats the equivalent of teaching a 16 year old how to drive in a Ferrari.

I totally agree. I started with a 37 gallon and made a huge number of mistakes. Believe it or not there are some out there that try it though. I actually watched a local store owner try to sell a couple a 6 ft tank and an $80 imperator angel at the same time. When I told the couple the fish would not make it through the cycle, I was asked to not return to the store.

 

[KGB]

You will be scraping algae every single night no matter what you put in there to prevent that if you have your light on for more than an hour or so. They have some great new algae scraper products tho....

as far as planted salt tanks, like i said Im a newbie. Im about to draft a kicker in the first round because noone has taken the #1 guy in that catagory yet

well, i CAN fit 48". I just have some light switches in the way, but I can block them. so lets assume 48 is a go. What size tank (in gallons) should I be looking for?

craigs list seems to be a goldmine for used fishtanks too.

Im gonna have to reread this thread and take some notes I think. Any AZ guys know a good store for livestock?

First of all nobody with any kind of experience would say this:

"You will be scraping algae every single night no matter what you put in there to prevent that if you have your light on for more than an hour or so. They have some great new algae scraper products tho...."

That's just plain dumb. Phosphate + light = algae. ALL algae. That's 9th grade science. No phosphate = no algae. RO water = no phosphate. as long as you don't run metal halide lighting 24 hours a day you will have minumum algae at worst.

Anyway. I can send you links by PM to 4 or 5 local AZ forums for all the information you need for local trustworthy fish stores and I can get you started if you want any saltwater tank advice. Send me a PM if you would like.

BTW - stay away from craigslist. Your local guys will be better to deal with and can also give you good advice.

yea, hook me up bro

 

[Eli2Shockey]

how'd this thread go for some guy asking about starting his first tank EVER to somebody walking in here like they are the president of the fish society of america?

 

[singman]

how'd this thread go for some guy asking about starting his first tank EVER to somebody walking in here like they are the president of the fish society of america?

 

[deacon14]

It's like anything else, tank dialog initiates passionate debating! I posted on the petswarehouse african cichlid board for a few years, before the competitiveness and bashing eventually turned me off. When singman first posted his thoughts about salt, I nodded to myself agreeingly - ahuh.

By now, we get it. No way am I making the mistake of suggesting that he discontinue posting here. Basically, he's correct! He's missing the boat with the fact that the main contributors have other agendas.

Here's a funny going on in my 55g with a small population

1 -6" (very old with diminishing eyesight) female Melanochromis Chipokae

1 -6" Multipunctatus Synodontis

1 -4.5" Multipunctatus Synodontis

The african will only eat if you hand feed her. You, literally, have to stick your hand into the tank with a medium size pellet between your thumb/pointer and follow her around until she plunks it. The wife and I give her about 3-6 a night, depending on how cooperative she is. Wonder what will happen over summer vacation?????

Guess it's really a win-win situation right now. Hanging on this way, she really has been an interesting case study. If she passes, I'll grab a dozen fry and let this tank evolve again. I bought her almost nine years ago (from a special order from TPPTFP.) At the time, the Chipokae were all 3-4" and supposed to be females. They all exhibited the female yellow/black coloring, yet 75% of them were spooked males in drag. Once I had them in bags ready to go home, and had clear shots at venting, I questioned the salesperson big time. At first, I was ticked off but things went pretty decent - after I got them sequestered and into the right tanks. I'll never forget how much flipping this gang did on the way home. So, I had a good ride with her and now she's pure entertainment. THE PAIN-indee-####!!!

 

[TheFanatic]

how'd this thread go for some guy asking about starting his first tank EVER to somebody walking in here like they are the president of the fish society of america?

No kidding. What was I thinking helping out the Aquarium rook? I take everything back TLEF. Start over from scratch and begin with a Reef tank. Why not go with a chiller too to make it even more complicated. Oh, and I hope you didn't actually want fish because reef tanks with tons of corals generally have very few vertebrates. What's the fun in watching the interactions of some africans jockeying for territory or breeding behavior when you could be watching some pulsating masses of jelly as they absorb microscopic food. In fact, I think I am going to go home and yank everything from my fresh water tanks and start over too. Anyone want any fresh water plants or fish? You pay the shipping and I will send them to you overnight.

 

[singman]

Basically, he's correct! He's missing the boat with the fact that the main contributors have other agendas.

TLEF,I apologize for the off topic result. Many people don't understand salt is an option at first. I also understand fresh is the way you have always wanted to go so good luck and I will help in any way I can.

 

[deacon14]

how'd this thread go for some guy asking about starting his first tank EVER to somebody walking in here like they are the president of the fish society of america?

No kidding. What was I thinking helping out the Aquarium rook? I take everything back TLEF. Start over from scratch and begin with a Reef tank. Why not go with a chiller too to make it even more complicated. Oh, and I hope you didn't actually want fish because reef tanks with tons of corals generally have very few vertebrates. What's the fun in watching the interactions of some africans jockeying for territory or breeding behavior when you could be watching some pulsating masses of jelly as they absorb microscopic food. In fact, I think I am going to go home and yank everything from my fresh water tanks and start over too. Anyone want any fresh water plants or fish? You pay the shipping and I will send them to you overnight.

What makes you so certain that Eli2Shockey wasn't talking about you? For something constructive and fishy, here is a cut and paste answer I gave in a PM for somebody interested in lowering aggression in their african tank."Thanks and no problem for coming at me via PM. I understand and will gladly offer what I can. I've lost many mbuna to the very same thing, especially in smaller tanks. While they are certainly the most esthetically pleasing, the males are definitely the problem. However, your tank size is what it is and your notion of a buffer (distraction type) fish is spot on. Sometimes though, the Australian Rainbows don't fair to well in the higher PH that the African's like. In one of my tanks with Demasonis and Venastus, I have a bunch of Melanochromis Exasperatus. They are relatively inexpensive and serve the same purpose. The dominant male in both of the first genus listed, can't figure out which Exasperatus is which. They are flashy and active and distract those males away from focusing on each other. It's a pretty neat population and the V's are 2x 3x the size of the colorful Demasonis. Bumped into it by accident and haven't lost a single fish. Give it a whirlie and let me know how it plays out. If my experience is indicative, it will go alright. The only potential pitfall is if your Johanni's breed with the Exasperatus. Those genus are fairly close. Since you haven't had any fry, I wouldn't worry."

 

[TheFanatic]

how'd this thread go for some guy asking about starting his first tank EVER to somebody walking in here like they are the president of the fish society of america?

No kidding. What was I thinking helping out the Aquarium rook? I take everything back TLEF. Start over from scratch and begin with a Reef tank. Why not go with a chiller too to make it even more complicated. Oh, and I hope you didn't actually want fish because reef tanks with tons of corals generally have very few vertebrates. What's the fun in watching the interactions of some africans jockeying for territory or breeding behavior when you could be watching some pulsating masses of jelly as they absorb microscopic food. In fact, I think I am going to go home and yank everything from my fresh water tanks and start over too. Anyone want any fresh water plants or fish? You pay the shipping and I will send them to you overnight.

Normally I tend to read and not post much on this forum. The above is an example of what has prompted to me to post so much in this thread. TLEF is an aquairium newbie, and the majority of his advice has came from you. That is unfortunate because you really have no clue what you are talking about. Being a newbie once myself, there is nothing worse than gettign advice from someone who really doesn't have a clue but pretends to.

I've been doing this for more than 20 years. I put pics of MY tank on this site as a testament to what I can do and have done. You post pics of others tanks and offer up a lot of knowledge that is contradictory to what most people I know in the salt hobby have told me and what I have experienced in the past. You can claim that I know jack about this but I would beg to differ. Particularly since a lot of people have agreed with my advice. I don't see anyone else jumping in here and saying that Salt tanks are cheap and easy to maintain but hey, you're the expert, right, and I don't know anything....We don't need anyone else's opinion on Salt tanks. Yours is the word of God. I've done salt in the past. It wasn't all that fun, cheap or easy. Last I checked this was a PUBLIC forum and I have a right to that opinion of which I shared some of my first hand experiences with salt. But they don't count because they differ with your opinions. Good luck with your tank. Sounds like you don't need it as it's so darn easy to take care of and everything is just peachy....

 

[TheFanatic]

What makes you so certain that Eli2Shockey wasn't talking about you?

The thought crossed my mind. But then I realized that all I have done is answer questions a guy has asked about setting up a tank. He was already far along in the research process and decision making process when he came to this board with questions. I didn't try to talk the guy into doing something over the top or make him rethink all the decisions he's already made. He asked questions, I offered advice as did others. I also posted some of what I'm doing with my tanks. So, if he's talking about me, I apologize for answering questions someone is asking on a subject I know quite a lot about contrary to what some believe. But hey, if that's a problem, I'll bow out of the thread. TLEF, if you want anymore questions answered you will have to PM me. I'm done here. I learned everything I know about this hobby through trial and error. 20+ years of trial and error. I brought a friend of mine up to speed in less than a year so much so that his 125 with a C02 kit is more impressive than my 55. I officially resign as the president of the Fish Society of America....Good luck TLEF.....

 

[singman]

I've been doing this for more than 20 years. I put pics of MY tank on this site as a testament to what I can do and have done. You post pics of others tanks and offer up a lot of knowledge that is contradictory to what most people I know in the salt hobby have told me and what I have experienced in the past.

I will wade through my wife's pics tonight and post pics of my tanks. Although I doubt anyone will be waiting in anticipation.

You can claim that I know jack about this but I would beg to differ. Particularly since a lot of people have agreed with my advice. I don't see anyone else jumping in here and saying that Salt tanks are cheap and easy to maintain but hey, you're the expert, right, and I don't know anything....We don't need anyone else's opinion on Salt tanks. Yours is the word of God. I've done salt in the past. It wasn't all that fun, cheap or easy. Last I checked this was a PUBLIC forum and I have a right to that opinion of which I shared some of my first hand experiences with salt. But they don't count because they differ with your opinions.

Nobody ever said your opinions didn't count. I simply disagree.

Good luck with your tank. Sounds like you don't need it as it's so darn easy to take care of and everything is just peachy....

I appreciate it. Actually at the moment my tanks take very little work.

 

[ditka311]

Well it's not useless but its time for the FBGs to start sharing some pics of their tanks.

Edit: Pic of my tank

2 Red Belly Pirahnas, 4 Giant Danios and 1 big ### lobster in an 75 gallon.

great tank man. That background fooled me for a second.

First of all, nice tank. I have a question regarding sandy bottom/substrate bottom tanks. How do you vacuum them? doesn't the vacuum suck up all of the sand/substrate?

I am going to be setting up my 55 again this weekend. It used to house a pair of discus, not sure what i am going to get this time. I still have a fairly large angel in a smaller tank.

The reason I ask is because I want live plants in my tank and apparently substrate is the way to go. Can I just add rocks over the substrate?

I will hang up and listen for your answer.

 

[Eli2Shockey]

What makes you so certain that Eli2Shockey wasn't talking about you?

I wasn't.

 

[singman]

First of all, nice tank.

I have a question regarding sandy bottom/substrate bottom tanks. How do you vacuum them? doesn't the vacuum suck up all of the sand/substrate?

I am going to be setting up my 55 again this weekend. It used to house a pair of discus, not sure what i am going to get this time. I still have a fairly large angel in a smaller tank.

The reason I ask is because I want live plants in my tank and apparently substrate is the way to go. Can I just add rocks over the substrate?

I will hang up and listen for your answer.

You can vacuum as normal. You will suck some up but not enough to worry about.

Another alternative to minimizing the sand cloud is heavier sand. It's a little more expensive but when you add flow to your tank you will be happy you have it.

 

[TLEF316]

Well, ive finished setting up the tank and have started to add amonia to start the cycle. Ive added a few more colorful "plants" to set the tank off a little, and i think i like how it looks. Later, if i feel its too busy i can always take some stuff out. I decided to sacrafice a little bit of the natural look for some slightly brighter colors. But i still think it came out ok. Waiting an extra couple days and then starting the filter cleared up the water nice. As always, any advice is appreciated. I think the pictures may make the tank look a little brighter than it actually is.

Wide shot of tank

Close up of left side

right side

i added a new piece of wood to the left side. It forms a little cave and stretches about 1/2 way up the tank. The fish should enjoy swiming in/ around it. I will probably take a plant or 2 out of the left side. I like having lots of cover, but i think its a little busy right now. I think the big green one would be the first to go.

The sand covers up alot of the rocks, but im still glad i went with it. Im sure the bottom dwellers will love it, and i can always brush it off of the rocks/wood when it gets messy.

Filter and heaters are running great. Ive got the heat up a little high right now to aid bacteria growth.

 

[TLEF316]

silly question about airstones/pumps. Does the pump go inside or outside of the tank? I would like some bubbles on the left side to balance out all the right side water movement from the filter.

 

[Irish]

Well, ive finished setting up the tank and have started to add amonia to start the cycle. Ive added a few more colorful "plants" to set the tank off a little, and i think i like how it looks. Later, if i feel its too busy i can always take some stuff out. I decided to sacrafice a little bit of the natural look for some slightly brighter colors. But i still think it came out ok. Waiting an extra couple days and then starting the filter cleared up the water nice. As always, any advice is appreciated. I think the pictures may make the tank look a little brighter than it actually is.

Wide shot of tank

Close up of left side

right side

i added a new piece of wood to the left side. It forms a little cave and stretches about 1/2 way up the tank. The fish should enjoy swiming in/ around it. I will probably take a plant or 2 out of the left side. I like having lots of cover, but i think its a little busy right now. I think the big green one would be the first to go.

The sand covers up alot of the rocks, but im still glad i went with it. Im sure the bottom dwellers will love it, and i can always brush it off of the rocks/wood when it gets messy.

Filter and heaters are running great. Ive got the heat up a little high right now to aid bacteria growth.

Looks good so far. What type of fish did you decide to go with?

 

[TLEF316]

gonna start with some small schooling fish (Zebra Dainos, Cory cats, tetras once the tank matures a bit) and then fill it out with some bigger stuff. Rignt now im thinking a red-tail shark and then probably some gouramis or passive chichlids (i like German blue rams)

 

[TLEF316]

ok, i think i may be having a slight algae problem. Over the past 2 or 3 days, i have noticed what looks like hair growing off the edges of alot of my fake plants. Ive read that some causes could be....

1) phosphate in the water

2) too much light

any suggestions? Its not rampant or anything, but i dont want to neglect it. As of right now, its just a few ~2 inch strands of "hair" off various plants, and one larger clump that grew in between one of my pieces of wood and a small plant.

 

[NinerK]

Hey TLEF, nice tank. Wish my first tank coulda been that size! Started with a 20 gallon in my bedroom as a kid.

My wife and I have moved from 55 gallon to 75 gallon in the past 7 years. And from fresh water to salt water.

I like both fresh and salt; but prefer salt. Just my opinion. Not trying to convert anybody. Your tank looks GREAT! Large enough to get some cool fish and let them grow!

If you ever get tempted to switch to or ad a salt water tank, it's not as difficult as it seems. Difficult to set up? YES We had some bad advice our first go round but have our 75 up and running very well. The key is a wet/dry filter system. Alas, I'm saying too much here.

Just wanted to say congrats on the tank, have fun!

 

[TLEF316]

quick update:

after about ten and a half days, the initial amonia i added finally dropped from 5 ppm to 0. Tested Nitrites for the first time, they are at about 5.

Im using the add and wait method, so i bumped the amonia back to around 3 or 4 ppm. We'll see how long it takes it this time.

Looks like im on my way.

 

[TLEF316]

about 24 hours after 2nd amonia dose (back to around 3 or 4) Amonia is down to 1 again, and Nitrites have dropped to around 2 ppm. Looks like we're doing well.

Apparently when the tank can process 4 ppm of amonia in 12 hours (and nitrite drops to zero) ill be ready to go.

 

[Guapote]

Congrats on the getting the tank going. The pics look good. I missed most of the drama above, but caught your images. I'm in the process of setting up a couple of new 75s myself, I'll try to post pics when I get a chance.

Are you cycling using plain ammonia? Sounds like you're off to a good start.

 

[TLEF316]

Congrats on the getting the tank going. The pics look good. I missed most of the drama above, but caught your images. I'm in the process of setting up a couple of new 75s myself, I'll try to post pics when I get a chance.Are you cycling using plain ammonia? Sounds like you're off to a good start.

yup. pure amonia. I think it will be back to zero again by tomorrow.

 

[TLEF316]

another quick update....

As of now, my tank is able to process 3 or 4 ppm of amonia in less than 24 hours (just how quickly, im not sure, as i havent tested in-between) Nitrites are still holding at around 2ppm.

I know the tank is considered "cycled" when it can process 3 or 4 ppm of amonia in 12 hours, and nitrites are all gone, so ill just keep adding amonia until this happens.

Now, some thoughts on stocking. At this point, im thinking of starting with something like the following....

I can easily find the following...

6-8 Zebra dainos

Red Tail Black shark

3 Clown Loaches

2 Bolivian rams

2 German Blue Rams

2 Paradise/ Blue gouramis

That right there puts me at around 54 inches of adult fish legnth (although im guessing tail legnth is counted in most of these estimates, so its probably less than that) Plus, they will obviously be small when i get them.

Id also like to add a small school (6-8) of either bronze or peppered cories, but i havent been able to find them. The only cories ive seen in the shops ive been to are albino aneus cories. They are all over the place. I found one place that had 3 pandas (which were awesome) but ive read that they are very sensitive to water conditions, so ill wait until the tank is more stable before i try to get a hold of a shoal of those guys.

As for top dwellers, im down to either hatchet fish (marble or silver) or maybe something else. Havent really decided yet. The hatchets are cool, but they are prone to being bullied.

Ill definetly be adding a school of neon tetras at some point. I know that every freaking community tank has them, but i really like them and they are cheap. Ive also looked at some plecos that looked pretty cool, and an considering 1 of them.

1 quick question though. I went to a store yesterday (the 1 that Eli2Shockey turned me on to) The fish there are in amazing health. They all have full bellies and good coloring. The one thing that im deciding is how big of clown loaches and RT black shark i want to buy to start. I can either get smaller ones (around 2 inches long) that are obviously very young. Or, i can get fish that are definetly older and bigger (around 3 -4 inches for the loaches, 5 for the shark)

If i get the older ones, im thinking they will bully the smaller schooling fish. But if i get the younger ones (especially the shark, as they are semi-aggressive) will they be a bit more passive and fit in better? The last thing i need is a 5 inch red tail beating up all the zebra dainos and the somewhat expensive rams.

 

[TLEF316]

ok, i am 100% regetting this fishless cycle BS. I had gotten to the point where 3-4 ppm of amonia was "eaten" every 12 hours. I figured i was just waiting for the nitrites to drop. Now, about a week later, not only have the nitrites not moved, but the amonia is being eaten slower and slower. I figured the cycle might be stalling, and was advised to do a 30% water change (which i did) but it didnt help. At this point, it seems like my amonia bacteria are dying off, despite me re-adding amonia every time its has reached zero. No change in tank temperature and only a slight rise in ph. This is total crap.

 

[Guapote]

Sorry about the cycling problems. Haven't done the fishless cycling myself. You should be OK adding fish if you completely drain the tank. The blue gouramis, paradise fish and danios are all OK going through a cycling period. Definitely skip the loaches and rams. If you drain the tank then add fish you're basically just going through the nitrite part of the cycle, which isn't as rough on the fish. Not sure why your taking longer to drop the ammonia levels. Hope things start looking better soon.

By the way, if your nitrites aren't rising, than you must be having some reduction in nitrite, otherwise that would be going up every time your ammonia gets broken down to nitrite.

 

[Guapote]

Hey Fanatic, or anybody else with planted tanks-

Just got some Riccia last month. I got a small bunch, and threw it in an empty, half filled 10 gallon with 24-7 lighting. It's started growing really well, but not dense enough to attach to anything. I was thinking of putting some driftwood and rocks in the tank, keeping the tank filled to about the level of the rocks, and letting the Riccia attach on its own. Ever try anything like this? It doesn't seem solid enough to attach it with fishing line or the like yet, not like Java moss. Let me know if you have any better ideas.

Thanks

 

[Addai's Adidas]

I've been trolling this thread for a while. I had a 65 gallon fresh that I changed over to salt. I used most of the equipment I had and added the things I needed to go salt - different filtering system, extra powerheads, skimmer, lights, etc. Salt is more expensive because of the added equipment, more expensive livestock, the salt you have to keep adding, and most importantly - the ADDICTION.

Just one more fish - oohhh that live rock is a nice one. It is never ending

I lost all my live stock one night when I put a new heater in and somehow bumped the temp control to max. Starfish, triggers, everything dead. Water was 90 degrees. I emptied the tank and sold everything. I didn't even track how much money went into that thing - for a reason!

 

[TLEF316]

i think i found the reason for my cycle stall. It seems that over the past 5 days, the ph in my tank has dropped from around 7.6 to at most, 6.0. i have no freaking clue how this happened

i think im gonna do 1 more big water change and see if that kickstarts the cycle again. If not, im saying to hell with it and adding fish. Im reading how some people take more than 8 weeks to cycle a tank. Thats absurd, and i never would have started with it if i knew it would take that long. Im sick of staring at an empty tank.

 

[Guapote]

Does your test kit read ammonia and ammonium? You might see a spike after the water change, if so this is could be due to the pH change shifting the ammonium to ammonia. If your test kit detects NH3 and NH4+ than ignore this.

If you can't get things working with the fishless cycle, I still think you'll do fine doing a 100% water change and than adding some danios or the like. Essentially, you'll be doing a cycle with a couple week head start.

 

[TLEF316]

Does your test kit read ammonia and ammonium? You might see a spike after the water change, if so this is could be due to the pH change shifting the ammonium to ammonia. If your test kit detects NH3 and NH4+ than ignore this.If you can't get things working with the fishless cycle, I still think you'll do fine doing a 100% water change and than adding some danios or the like. Essentially, you'll be doing a cycle with a couple week head start.

nah, test kit reads (Nh3/NH4+) as just "freshwater amonia" so i guess its reading them together. If the cycle hasnt kick started by thursday, im gonna drain and add fish. My new job starts on monday, and im pretty tired of staring at an empty tank.Quick question though. had i totally skipped the fishless cycle, i would have only added a few fish at a time. If I finish the cycle, i can add pretty much my full load. What do i do if i quit midway through?just finished a 30% water change. Ill see how it goes.

 

[Guapote]

Kinda hard to say for sure, but I think you should be able to add more than a few fish, but not a full tank load. Sorry, I know that's not too specific. I think a small school of danios (maybe a dozen) and a pair of paradise fish would be fine. I'd have no problem starting a cycle with that kind of fish load in 75 gallons, and that's enough fish to keep the tank from looking empty. As long as you start with healthy stock, you pretty much have to hit the paradise fish with a hammer to kill them. As long as you're willing to do a water change, and maybe have some Amquel on hand (which I would only look at as a short term band-aid, not a long term fix), I think you'd be fine with this kind of fish load. I doubt you'd see problems, just be prepared for that water change if you do.

Another thing that I've done in many of tanks is to grow some pothos (a hanging plant) with the roots submerged. Just pull it from the pot, rinse the dirt off the roots, and put some sprigs partially submerged. These things suck up ridiculous amounts of nutrients, to the point that algae quits growing in the tank and it's really hard to grow any aquatic plants. Might be helpful if you do start to see problems with the fish. I don't know if you can do this without making your set-up look too half-assed, but it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[TLEF316]

from what ive heard, paradise fish are pretty darn agressive. I know i expressed interest in them earlier, but i wasnt that educated at that point. (and im still not)Do you have experience with them? Were they nasty?

Also, one more quick question about stocking. How close to the inch/gallon do you suggest i stick? At first, i was planning on using it as a concrete rule (at least to start) but a few people in this thread have suggested that i could go way over that. I only ask, because a school of 12 zebra dainos would take up a pretty large portion of my tank, if i were to stick to the inch/gallon rule. TIA

 

[Guapote]

The 1" per gallon rule is pretty useless. Look at it this way; your 12 zebra danios would count the same as a 12" oscar. The mass of the oscar and the amount of waste it produces are exponentially greater than the 12 danios. Also, the 1" rule doesn't take into account what type of filtration you are using, if you have live plants, how much surface water movement you have, what the temperature is, how often you do water changes, etc.

Regarding the paradise fish, they can be somewhat aggressive, but they are also slow. I doubt they'd be able to catch your danios, on the other hand, they might give your rams (after the tank is cycled, they aren't hardy) a hard time. Your tank is large enough, you may have less aggression problems than you would in a smaller tank. Honestly, some of it is trial and error, even within a given species individuals will have different personalities. The more visual barriers and hiding places you provide, the less likely you are to have problems with aggression, at least with most fish.

 

[TLEF316]

yeah, thats about what i figured. I really love the rams. i plan on getting a pair of german blues and a pair of bolivians once the tank is matured. I will probably have to avoid some of the semi-aggressive fish on my list if i want to keep them happy. thanks again for the advice. i guess ill try a pair of the paradise and see how they do.

 

[TLEF316]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning.

I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

 

[TheFanatic]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

OK, I said I wouldn't post in here any more but something has to be said here. Throw in some fish. Nothing expensive. Just throw some fish in there and get the thing cycled. And I believe I used the exact same analogy for twelve 1 inch danios and one 12 inch oscar. Particularly since the biggest indicator of how many fish a tank can hold is surface area. A 45 high which is 36X12 can't hold as many fish as a 40 long which is 48X12. As for your Rams. Why only go with 2? Go with 4 or 6. You have a much better chance of getting a pair if you go with 4-6. And every fish is much more colorful when breeding. That and the behavior is amazing to watch. It's pretty impressive to see a tiny fish come out and chomp down on a hand attached to body that his hundreds of times the size of the little guy but his instincts to protect his young have taken over....As for the Riccia and a rock or wood. Attach the riccia to a rock or wood with a rubberband. In a few weeks cut the rubber band and the plant will be attached. Works with Java moss and Java fern as well. Be careful, that stuff clogs filters pretty easily and can get out of hand....

 

[Penguin]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

Fresh Water PH drops over time, that's just what it does. If you fill your tank with neutral (7.0) water, it wall drop to the mid to low 6's in about a week to 10 days. Try buffering your water to keep the ph stable, there are also test kits for "buffering capability." You'll find that weekly water changes will keep your PH pretty stable on it's own as you'll be adding new water which is most likely between 7.0 and 7.6 depending on your town's water supply but at the beginning when you're going longer than 7 days between water changes you'll find that your PH is more volatile.

 

[Irish]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

Fresh Water PH drops over time, that's just what it does. If you fill your tank with neutral (7.0) water, it wall drop to the mid to low 6's in about a week to 10 days. Try buffering your water to keep the ph stable, there are also test kits for "buffering capability." You'll find that weekly water changes will keep your PH pretty stable on it's own as you'll be adding new water which is most likely between 7.0 and 7.6 depending on your town's water supply but at the beginning when you're going longer than 7 days between water changes you'll find that your PH is more volatile.

I've found for freshwater fish it is best not to mess with PH. Your fish will adapt to the ph of your tap water and is better for them than constantly messing around with the PH IMHO.

 

[Addai's Adidas]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

Fresh Water PH drops over time, that's just what it does. If you fill your tank with neutral (7.0) water, it wall drop to the mid to low 6's in about a week to 10 days. Try buffering your water to keep the ph stable, there are also test kits for "buffering capability." You'll find that weekly water changes will keep your PH pretty stable on it's own as you'll be adding new water which is most likely between 7.0 and 7.6 depending on your town's water supply but at the beginning when you're going longer than 7 days between water changes you'll find that your PH is more volatile.

I've found for freshwater fish it is best not to mess with PH. Your fish will adapt to the ph of your tap water and is better for them than constantly messing around with the PH IMHO.

Agreed. I've always used city water for fresh water fish with no problems.

 

[TLEF316]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

OK, I said I wouldn't post in here any more but something has to be said here. Throw in some fish. Nothing expensive. Just throw some fish in there and get the thing cycled. And I believe I used the exact same analogy for twelve 1 inch danios and one 12 inch oscar. Particularly since the biggest indicator of how many fish a tank can hold is surface area. A 45 high which is 36X12 can't hold as many fish as a 40 long which is 48X12. As for your Rams. Why only go with 2? Go with 4 or 6. You have a much better chance of getting a pair if you go with 4-6. And every fish is much more colorful when breeding. That and the behavior is amazing to watch. It's pretty impressive to see a tiny fish come out and chomp down on a hand attached to body that his hundreds of times the size of the little guy but his instincts to protect his young have taken over....As for the Riccia and a rock or wood. Attach the riccia to a rock or wood with a rubberband. In a few weeks cut the rubber band and the plant will be attached. Works with Java moss and Java fern as well. Be careful, that stuff clogs filters pretty easily and can get out of hand....

yeah, im just gonna throw some fish in. As for the Rams... A) they're somewhat expensive. B) Im gonna get Bolivian and German Blue. Id like to get a breeding pair (more for the behavior than the fry) but i dont need 3 pairs. Maybe ill get like 6, wait until 2 pair up, and return the others. Ill consider multiple pairs of rams. I just think it might limit what else i can do(but maybe thats a good thing)

 

[TLEF316]

tank has been drained and re-filled. I could only get around 90% of the water out with the gravel vac. I figured that was good enough. I adjusted the temp to around 75 and added just a little bit of amonia to feed the bacteria for the next day or so. Barring anything strange happening, ill be adding my first fish around noon tomorrow. Im looking to pickup 10 zebra dainos and a pair of paradise fish. If all goes well for the next week or so, ill add a small school of cories (probably bronze or albino bronze)

 

[TheFanatic]

after moving up around 6.2-6.4 for most of the day, the ph crashed again. Its back under 6. Looks like my fishless cycling experiment is over. Tomorrow im gonna drain and re-fill the tank. Ill give it tuesday night to settle and adjust to fish keeping temperatures. Fish on wednesday morning. I wanted to do this the "right way" but im not gonna spend another month looking at an empty tank. No chance. I've done way too much work and research for that.

Fresh Water PH drops over time, that's just what it does. If you fill your tank with neutral (7.0) water, it wall drop to the mid to low 6's in about a week to 10 days. Try buffering your water to keep the ph stable, there are also test kits for "buffering capability." You'll find that weekly water changes will keep your PH pretty stable on it's own as you'll be adding new water which is most likely between 7.0 and 7.6 depending on your town's water supply but at the beginning when you're going longer than 7 days between water changes you'll find that your PH is more volatile.

I've found for freshwater fish it is best not to mess with PH. Your fish will adapt to the ph of your tap water and is better for them than constantly messing around with the PH IMHO.

I don't even know where my PH test kit is. I don't add any PH augmentation fluid when I do water changes. The fish either adapt to the water or they don't. I add chlorine remover and plant fertilizer and that's it. Don't mess with the PH. Forget about it entirely....

 

[Eli2Shockey]

ill propose this again, i used the 'biosphere' cycle ...didnt lose any fish and bought it at the local fish store..