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Are Brady's excuses gone? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter switz
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LAUNCH
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
Incidentally MoP, Welker's contract is for $18 million, not $38 million.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Oh really? I thought it was something like 6 or 7 years and backloaded to $38 million...??? Thanks for the clarification. Still doesn't change my opinion or my overall feeling for any of the NE WR positions.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
Manning fans are fond of saying NE could have won those SB's with Pay-Me-Tons at QB which is a dubious arguement, but I have to concede they might have won 1 or possibly 2. However, now that the shoe is on the other foot, is there even a shred of doubt that the Dolts would have won with Brady as easily if not easier than they did with Manning? Heck, you could make an arguement the Dolts could have won it with Rex Grossman who had a higher qb rating, threw for just as many td's and less than half as many int's as Manning. If only the bears had a defense....switz said:
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The Jacket
Footballguy
He easily would've. Anyone could've won with those defenses, as Manning proved last season.
Kai's Hero
Footballguy
You got to be kidding, right? Explain to me how you come up with the conclusion that Washington is as good or better than Reggie Wayne. I'll wait.switz said:
Family Matters
Footballguy
All I can say is OMG! 
This explains many things.
This explains many things. 
Kit Fisto
Footballguy
Wow, this is one of the biggest 
adventures I have ever seen on these boards. Kelley Washington is a "premier" talent and better than Reggie Wayne?
Mods, please lock this POS thread.
Johnny U, thought you were better than this. Your team won the Super Bowl fair and square. Why the need to still take shots at Patriots fans? Seems a little childish.
adventures I have ever seen on these boards. Kelley Washington is a "premier" talent and better than Reggie Wayne?Mods, please lock this POS thread.
Johnny U, thought you were better than this. Your team won the Super Bowl fair and square. Why the need to still take shots at Patriots fans? Seems a little childish.
super sleeper
Footballguy
This is a silly thread.
Up until this year, the discussion was always championships vs. stats when comparing Brady to Manning.
But now, despite the Colts Super Bowl win, Colts fans demand that Brady also put up the same statistical numbers as Manning in order to continue this perceived argument. But it's really just some insecure Colts fan forcing defensive Patriots fans to respond to some contrived controversy. Others pile on, and there you go. Most normal football fans see two great QBs in two very different offensive systems.
As a Giants fan, I'd take either of them on my team. But I wouldn't expect them to win as much or have the same stats.
And comparing Stallworth and Washington to Harrison and Wayne is stupid. If you want to argue that Stallworth and Welker gives Brady some playmakers he's been lacking at WR, who can stretch the field and open up the offense more, ok, I can see that. How much it affects Brady's stats, I don't know.
Up until this year, the discussion was always championships vs. stats when comparing Brady to Manning.
But now, despite the Colts Super Bowl win, Colts fans demand that Brady also put up the same statistical numbers as Manning in order to continue this perceived argument. But it's really just some insecure Colts fan forcing defensive Patriots fans to respond to some contrived controversy. Others pile on, and there you go. Most normal football fans see two great QBs in two very different offensive systems.
As a Giants fan, I'd take either of them on my team. But I wouldn't expect them to win as much or have the same stats.
And comparing Stallworth and Washington to Harrison and Wayne is stupid. If you want to argue that Stallworth and Welker gives Brady some playmakers he's been lacking at WR, who can stretch the field and open up the offense more, ok, I can see that. How much it affects Brady's stats, I don't know.
Kit Fisto
Footballguy
Enjoy your trip while it lasts.The over/under on the mod lock is 80 posts. I'm taking under.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Sorry if I upset the Pats fans. I didn't take any shots right after the Colts beat the Pats out of respect for the Pat fans, and because I know how it feels to lose. I waited until the hurt had worn off some before taking a few shots. Again, sorry if I upset anyone.
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Kit Fisto
Footballguy
No one is upset. After all, this is just an anonymous message board.Just seemed out of character coming from you.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
When has Brady ever made an excuse? It seems to me that some Patriots fans have made the "he doesn't have great WRs like Manning does" argument, but Brady has not, unless I missed it. So, this thread is pretty dumb.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Wow, switz reeled in a lot of people with this thread...
:( 
:( 
:( :( I just like how the whole premise of this thread implies that Brady needs excuses as to why he doesn't put up quite as high stats that Manning does. Please... if you judge QB's purely by stats, then you're insane. IMO, Brady is still a better QB than Manning, although the gap is getting very small right now.
You also have to consider the type of offense both teams run. In Manning's type of offense, the QB's stats will be higher. It's like when Trent Green was still really good...he always put up more passing yards and sometimes more TD's than Brady, but did anyone actually think he was better? Of course not. The offenses that teams run have to be considered when evaluating 2 QB's. If Brady were on the Colts, he would put up statistics just like Manning does.
You also have to consider the type of offense both teams run. In Manning's type of offense, the QB's stats will be higher. It's like when Trent Green was still really good...he always put up more passing yards and sometimes more TD's than Brady, but did anyone actually think he was better? Of course not. The offenses that teams run have to be considered when evaluating 2 QB's. If Brady were on the Colts, he would put up statistics just like Manning does.
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dparker713
Footballguy
Thats the kind of crazy talk that gets threads like these started.
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Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yeah, Harrison really went downhill this past year. 95 catches, 3rd in the NFL.1,366 receiving yards, 2nd in the NFL.12 touchdown receptions, 2nd in the NFL. Yeah, I can see how you would think his career is almost over.Finless said:
brednbuddah
Footballguy
Stallworth has the potential to be a premier talent. Washington, the jury is still out. He was buried under a bunch of true premier talents. so I guess we'll see there.As, far as Brady goes. I don't think I've ever heard a Brady (pats) fans say what you're claiming. I would think Brady (pats) fans could care less about stats. just keep bringing the hardware.switz said:
That's not a bold statement, it's a foolish statement.
Not really. Manning averages about 550 more passing yards per year than Brady (not including Brady's 2001 season when he didn't start a couple games) which only means 35 more passing yards per game. In Manning's offense, where the deep ball is used more often than in the Patriots' offense, that really doesn't make it that huge of a deal. But Brady's 3 rings and 2 SB MVP's give him the edge. Manning has shown he struggles in the playoffs... even this year when he won it, he had the worst QB rating throughout the playoffs out of anyone to win a SuperBowl. If Manning can win one more ring and do it in a solid fashion throughout the playoffs, then I'll say he's better. But til then, Brady is still ahead.
dparker713
Footballguy
His first MVP was a gift. Using a team accomplishment like championships as a primary metric for how great an individual is, is inherently flawed.
NE_REVIVAL
Footballguy
If u want to jump from one Pats thread to another and pee on Tom Brady & the Pats then more power to you. Worshipping at the altar of Manning and denigrating Bradys accomplishmnts are part of the fabric of this place, heck it may just land u on job on the staff (it certainly won't hurt
). But peeing on Tommyboy aint gonna change the fact that Peyton lead his team to a championship by throwing a Ryan Leaf like 3 td's and SEVEN Int's and piss poor qb rating.I would like to point out to you that there is more to winning championships than passing yards and td passes but I know that is the only criteria you and all the other Manning-iacs care about.
It is poetic justice that Manning finally wins the big one not by throwing for tons of td's but by doing a lot of the little things (much like Brady) that may not show up in the FBG stat book but are none the less critical to the teams success.
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SoloMatisse
Footballguy
I still cant believe this thread was ever actually started. Tom Brady? Excuses? Befuddling............
switz
Footballguy
Wow, reading through this thread has been humorous...
In every Manning vs. Brady debate, Pats fans say "the reason Brady doesn't have the stats is due to the WRs" - yet in this thread all of the sudden they deny that.
Last year when the Eagles landed Stallworth, the majority on this board said "Awesome, he has a great "WR to work with replacing TO" but now Stallworth is not a good WR per PAts fans/Brady defenders.
And setting up for Brady not to take a big leap in stats with some solid WRs, we see the "it's the system" excuse being fomented.
To be honest, I've said all along that the Pats system makes WRs look statistically worse than they actually are, so I don't disagree with the system statement that much. However, with Brady having the weapons he has around him this season, I would be shocked if he didn't improve his stats significantly, and I do feel there can be no excuse if he doesn't.
His team has helped him win a few Super Bowls, but he gets way too much credit for it.
In every Manning vs. Brady debate, Pats fans say "the reason Brady doesn't have the stats is due to the WRs" - yet in this thread all of the sudden they deny that.
Last year when the Eagles landed Stallworth, the majority on this board said "Awesome, he has a great "WR to work with replacing TO" but now Stallworth is not a good WR per PAts fans/Brady defenders.
And setting up for Brady not to take a big leap in stats with some solid WRs, we see the "it's the system" excuse being fomented.
To be honest, I've said all along that the Pats system makes WRs look statistically worse than they actually are, so I don't disagree with the system statement that much. However, with Brady having the weapons he has around him this season, I would be shocked if he didn't improve his stats significantly, and I do feel there can be no excuse if he doesn't.
His team has helped him win a few Super Bowls, but he gets way too much credit for it.
brednbuddah
Footballguy
I'll drink to that
Here's the way I look at it.... they are both 2 different QB's who are at the helm of 2 different offenses. For some reason, people tend to think that if a QB doesn't put up as big of stats as another, then the QB with higher stats is therefore superior, and that is simply not always the case. You need to understand that the whole "throw it everywhere and rack up 4,500 yards and 30 TD's" type of offense is NOT the end all-be-all offense to determine who the best QB's are. Brady COULD run Manning's style of offense, but the Patriot coaching staff belives that the offense they run can be more effective for them than a Colts' style offense.
If people think Manning would put up identical numbers with New England, they're dead wrong. The offensive scheme wouldn't allow him to.
So anyway, here's how I look at it... They both run 2 different offenses, and they have both become near perfect masters of their own offenses. So, as the tiebreaker, you look at their success. Both have very have win percentages, but Brady has shown more often to be a clutch QB than Manning has, and has won 2 more rings in less years as a starter.
It's as close as you can get, even closer than the Montana/Marino debate...but I give the edge to Brady by a razor thin margin...and I'm certainly no Patriots fan. I hate the Patriots. I'll state though that if Peyton wins another ring and Brady doesn't, the tide will turn to Peyton.
If people think Manning would put up identical numbers with New England, they're dead wrong. The offensive scheme wouldn't allow him to.
So anyway, here's how I look at it... They both run 2 different offenses, and they have both become near perfect masters of their own offenses. So, as the tiebreaker, you look at their success. Both have very have win percentages, but Brady has shown more often to be a clutch QB than Manning has, and has won 2 more rings in less years as a starter.
It's as close as you can get, even closer than the Montana/Marino debate...but I give the edge to Brady by a razor thin margin...and I'm certainly no Patriots fan. I hate the Patriots. I'll state though that if Peyton wins another ring and Brady doesn't, the tide will turn to Peyton.
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Pat Patriot
Footballguy
Brady gets the exact amount of credit that any QB who has won 3 SB's should get. As does Bill Belichick. As does the Patriots D. I dont recall any part of the Patriots "team" that contributed to the winning of 3 SB's that has yet to receive credit.I'll drink to that
switz
Footballguy
The receivers - which are nearly unanimously called scrubs. Branch was viewed as valueless basically.Brady gets the exact amount of credit that any QB who has won 3 SB's should get. As does Bill Belichick. As does the Patriots D. I dont recall any part of the Patriots "team" that contributed to the winning of 3 SB's that has yet to receive credit.I'll drink to that
MelKiperJr
Footballguy
You have the argument backwards. I don't think anyone has ever said "Brady's stats would be better...", it was always "Would Manning win the big one on NE."Typical Colt fan just patting themself on the back. When you win more than one, then you can talk.
Kleck
Footballguy
Agreed. I officially deem this as fishing. Account logs have been amended.
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