Bari Weiss Quits! (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

The story isn't Bari Weiss. Most people are not familiar with her and probably don't care to be.

The story is the New York Times. Most people have heard of it. It's a story that warrants coverage, IMO. Not really news coverage, but plenty of commentary.

Writer for influential paper get lots of negative feedback from her audience over the course of a few years for her takes on several controversial hot button issues. Employing newspaper continues to employ her despite said feedback. Writer grows tired of negative feedback, cancels herself, becomes martyr for those supporting her views.

If the topic at hand is the NYT's alleged indiscretions in this matter, your summary of its apparent lapses seems less than fully comprehensive.

 

[Possum]

I think the narrative about cancel culture being a widespread problem overstates the issue, and is mostly a talking point used by those on the right to push back, or those who consider themselves moderate to feel comfortable with their “both sides” position. In reality, I think cancel culture is an extremely rare but overall effective tool that helps guide social behavior in a positive way.  

my man, like I've said (probably way too much) in the cancel culture thread, I completely disagree with this take. President Obama articulated the issues with cancel culture about as well as anyone can: https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2019/10/30/president-obama-says-its-time-to-get-over-cancel-culture/#a4bc1961617e

• it's mob action with no due process for the accused and no chance for redemption or forgiveness
  
• there are no clear lines for offenses or punishments and no determination of when things have gone far enough
  
• too often people are punished for things as simple as political differences, unpopular opinions, or things that are arguably ignorance or misinterpretations - things that should not happen in a rational free-thinking society
  
• it's a bully tactic that does absolutely nothing to change underlying causes of behavior - instead it simply creates a greater environment of heightened tensions, fear and confrontation on both sides, especially when it's not even used toward actual racism or bigotry as is happening in far too many cases
  

 

[BladeRunner]

my man, like I've said (probably way too much) in the cancel culture thread, I completely disagree with this take. President Obama articulated the issues with cancel culture about as well as anyone can: https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2019/10/30/president-obama-says-its-time-to-get-over-cancel-culture/#a4bc1961617e

• it's mob action with no due process for the accused and no chance for redemption or forgiveness
  
• there are no clear lines for offenses or punishments and no determination of when things have gone far enough
  
• too often people are punished for things as simple as political differences, unpopular opinions, or things that are arguably ignorance or misinterpretations - things that should not happen in a rational free-thinking society
  
• it's a bully tactic that does absolutely nothing to change underlying causes of behavior - instead it simply creates a greater environment of heightened tensions, fear and confrontation on both sides, especially when it's not even used toward actual racism or bigotry as is happening in far too many cases
  

To think that this is a rare issue is absurd, IMO.  And then to call an effective tool is even more absurd, IMO.

Cancel culture is the antithesis of a rational, free thinking and free speech society.  

 

[Shutout]

If you read the resignation letter AND have followed this for a while (which it appears not a lot of people really knew her or what's been going on) you get the ability to see a significant insight to the Times and it is the paper, not the particular journalist that is of particular interest here (when you look at it historically).  

 

[Joe Bryant]

If you read the resignation letter AND have followed this for a while (which it appears not a lot of people really knew her or what's been going on) you get the ability to see a significant insight to the Times and it is the paper, not the particular journalist that is of particular interest here (when you look at it historically).  

Thank you. And agreed. 

 

[The Gator]

Peter Kafka @pkafka

Here's the transcript for that part of the conversation, which I also provided to Weiss, who declined to comment.

MARK THOMPSON (CEO of NYT): It's not really about what the substance of what people say.  It's when you get to remarks which can appear threatening or harassing or abusive in a way which, you know....we want an environment where we have very honest conversations with each other, but we don't descend to a kind of abuse.

PETER KAFKA (Interviewer): This is something Bari Weiss brought up in her resignation letter - that people were abusive or threatening toward her on Slack.  Do you think that is a fair point?

THOMPSON: Well, I mean, we've asked Bari, subsequent to that letter - and in utter seriousness she said some very serious things.  She said she'd been the victim of anti-Semitism. She said she'd been called a Nazi, for example, two of things she's said.  We've asked her to provide detail and we've done a lot of looking on Slack and elsewhere.  We can' find specific examples of that, and she hasn't yet provided specific examples of that.

What I would say is, you know, strong opinions and strong debate, I think is absolutely permissible.  And indeed, ultimately, I think is a healthy thing, for the reasons I've said.

Abusive remarks, particularly kind of racist, abusive remarks are totally unacceptable.  But to act upon it, we would need evidence.  And as yet, we don't have any evidence.

 

[The Gator]

I wonder where everyone's "outrage" went here. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I wonder where everyone's "outrage" went here. 

Your supposed to hi-five anyone who sees this as absolute proof that the New York Times and by extension the liberal media is in shambles as extremist now run over the news room and editorial pages.   Those with other thoughts have been asked to give it a rest.   As a result this always had Ashley Todd  feel to it - but who knows.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Man, Bari wanted to be fired so much. If I worked as hard at succeeding at my job as she did in trying to provoke the Times to fire her, I’d be a partner. 

 

[rockaction]

My question, without having really read the thread or understood the issue properly at hand (ahem), is how did we not know this was the culture at the Times? I don't even know what sort of liberally oppressive culture it was in detail to have surmised a pretty accurate guess. Nor do I need the counter-details about the conservative wallflower or unbridled antagonist. This is almost a literary archetype at this point, only done in the setting of modern politics.

To answer the question above without even, as I said, knowing the story, I'm not outraged because as soon as I hit radical chic back in boarding school I had the (correct) intuition and powers of deduction to realize that this would be what I would be surrounded by in academia and media for the rest of my life were I to become a conservative.

It's such an old story I don't even need to read the story or comprehend it to pretty much know or have a good idea of what happened here.

 

[[scooter]]

Your supposed to hi-five anyone who sees this as absolute proof that the New York Times and by extension the liberal media is in shambles as extremist now run over the news room and editorial pages.   Those with other thoughts have been asked to give it a rest.

The NY Times has become a pawn in a game to legitimize the fringe. If you can make enough people think that the Times is run by extremists, then it becomes justification for elevating Breitbart and OANN to mainstream status.

It's not unlike the Republican flirtation with Qanon. Once you manufacture the bogeyman (AOC and Bernie Sanders), then you can create justification for your own equivalent.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Peter Kafka @pkafka

Here's the transcript for that part of the conversation, which I also provided to Weiss, who declined to comment.

MARK THOMPSON (CEO of NYT): It's not really about what the substance of what people say.  It's when you get to remarks which can appear threatening or harassing or abusive in a way which, you know....we want an environment where we have very honest conversations with each other, but we don't descend to a kind of abuse.

PETER KAFKA (Interviewer): This is something Bari Weiss brought up in her resignation letter - that people were abusive or threatening toward her on Slack.  Do you think that is a fair point?

THOMPSON: Well, I mean, we've asked Bari, subsequent to that letter - and in utter seriousness she said some very serious things.  She said she'd been the victim of anti-Semitism. She said she'd been called a Nazi, for example, two of things she's said.  We've asked her to provide detail and we've done a lot of looking on Slack and elsewhere.  We can' find specific examples of that, and she hasn't yet provided specific examples of that.

What I would say is, you know, strong opinions and strong debate, I think is absolutely permissible.  And indeed, ultimately, I think is a healthy thing, for the reasons I've said.

Abusive remarks, particularly kind of racist, abusive remarks are totally unacceptable.  But to act upon it, we would need evidence.  And as yet, we don't have any evidence.

Huh.

 

[pecorino]

I taught Bari many years ago, Precalc I think it was, in high school. Great kid. Wanted to change the world even then. I saw her resignation when it happened but I've been avoiding the Politics Forum so hadn't seen this thread. You should read her writings, check out her interviews. Very proud of what she's doing. My favorite bit is that in the bio on her webpage, it says: "The Jerusalem Post just named Bari the seventh most influential Jew in the world. Her parents were disappointed she didn't rank higher."