Bitcoin-Explain to me how to buy these things (3 Viewers)

[Rhythmdoctor]

If Bitcoin can get to and stay above $10,500 then we will see new all time highs in the next 2-3 years. It hit $9,911 today. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

So I don't get why the halving is an event that drives prices up?

Miners are still paying the same energy costs, but getting 1/2 the reward now. 

As miners produce BTC the total supply is increasing. Also, if people are hodling BTC then miners cannot make money on transaction costs. 

Basically isn't there a risk that mining becomes not profitable, no one is using BTC for transactions, and he whole thing just tanks?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

So I don't get why the halving is an event that drives prices up?

Miners are still paying the same energy costs, but getting 1/2 the reward now. 

As miners produce BTC the total supply is increasing. Also, if people are hodling BTC then miners cannot make money on transaction costs. 

Basically isn't there a risk that mining becomes not profitable, no one is using BTC for transactions, and he whole thing just tanks?

The general logic is that the demand remains the same yet the supply decreases in half. Put another way, miners will require more money to sell their Bitcoin on the open market to keep their operation running.

Fiat currency loses its purchasing power every day/month/year/decade due to inflation and central bank manipulation.  The supply of dollars can be inflated/printed by central banks which decreases the dollar's purchasing power over time.  Bitcoin was created as a decentralized alternative to the banking system.  The supply of bitcoin is decreased by half every 210,000 blocks which is approximately every 4 years. This reward halving makes Bitcoin a deflationary asset which means the purchasing power increases over time assuming the demand is still there. So far, the demand for Bitcoin has not only stayed the same but has increased steadily since its inception in 2009.  So the price increase is basic supply and demand. 

Right now approximately 0.03% of the world population owns Bitcoin which is barely a blip on the radar.  Imagine if that figure increases to 1% or 10% or more.  Bitcoin is still in its very infant stage and only keeps proving its skeptics wrong.  IMO, this is the only opportunity is the last few hundred years for average humans to control their own finances or be their own bank.  The upside is immense which is why I suggest only to buy an amount you can afford to lose.  What would be worse? Losing a few grand or missing out on an opportunity of a lifetime?  This is a no-brainer decision for me.  DYOR. Invest what you can afford to lose. I'm not a financial expert and this is not financial advise.

 

[onionsack]

So I don't get why the halving is an event that drives prices up?

Miners are still paying the same energy costs, but getting 1/2 the reward now. 

As miners produce BTC the total supply is increasing. Also, if people are hodling BTC then miners cannot make money on transaction costs. 

Basically isn't there a risk that mining becomes not profitable, no one is using BTC for transactions, and he whole thing just tanks?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffX32ENGKc

 

[Charlie Harper]

The general logic is that the demand remains the same yet the supply decreases in half. Put another way, miners will require more money to sell their Bitcoin on the open market to keep their operation 

I think that's a flawed way of thinking. 

Customer demand ????.

BTC supply INCREASES.

Miners reward DECREASES. 

The very act of mining is adding more BTC to the supply. It's the miners reward that is decreasing by 1/2. So the question is...will demand be high enough to off-set miners losses? 

I think I'll be selling my BTC within the next few days.

 

[onionsack]

Fiat billionaires are now fleeing to Bitcoin for safety for all the reasons we've been saying for years.  

 

[onionsack]

I think that's a flawed way of thinking. 

Customer demand ????.

BTC supply INCREASES.

Miners reward DECREASES. 

The very act of mining is adding more BTC to the supply. It's the miners reward that is decreasing by 1/2. So the question is...will demand be high enough to off-set miners losses? 

I think I'll be selling my BTC within the next few days.

Are you sure you want to do that? The last halving, BTC was around $600.

 

[Charlie Harper]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FffX32ENGKc

Yah that kind of echos my original point. People aren't using BTC for everyday transactions. At this point it's speculation and store of value. 

So miners will be getting 1/2 the BTC reward and the transactions hasn't increased to make up for it. Transactions per days has settled around 300k.  

So at some point miners will give up.

 

[Charlie Harper]

We'll see. I think the current pump is due to what's happened in the past 1/2. Prior to the 1/2 BTC has been stable at 7k or so.

If it hits 15k I'm selling for sure.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I think that's a flawed way of thinking. 

Customer demand ????.

BTC supply INCREASES.

Miners reward DECREASES. 

The very act of mining is adding more BTC to the supply. It's the miners reward that is decreasing by 1/2. So the question is...will demand be high enough to off-set miners losses? 

I think I'll be selling my BTC within the next few days.

Miner rewards which are currently 12.5 Bitcoin per block (approximately every 10 minutes) is how Bitcoin is mined/released to the Network.  So, yes, the supply is still increasing but at a much slower rate by decreasing from 12.5 to 6.25 every 10 minutes or so.  Miners typically sell the Bitcoin they mine in order to maintain the costs of their mining operation. So you could look at the supply of Bitcoin is controlled by miners primarily.  Starting on Tuesday, the amount available to sell will be cut in half.  Many people who purchase Bitcoin are holding that bitcoin and not actively trading it.  Of course there is a population of traders who are actively buying/selling Bitcoin.

I don't know the exact ratio of miners who sell or users who trade and hold but being involved in the community for several years, most people seem to be holders.  No matter how you look at it, the simple fact is that Bitcoin essentially does a 10x in price within 18 months of the last 2 halvings.  So history tells us the price will go up dramatically in the next couple of years.  Bitcoin is now discussed in the mainstream media and even was mentioned on the show Billionaires.  Like it or not, it's gaining in popularity, not the inverse.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Yah that kind of echos my original point. People aren't using BTC for everyday transactions. At this point it's speculation and store of value. 

So miners will be getting 1/2 the BTC reward and the transactions hasn't increased to make up for it. Transactions per days has settled around 300k.  

So at some point miners will give up.

Did you see my post from a few days ago up thread?  I quote an excerpt about the evolution of money.  I suggest you read it.  Bitcoin is in its very early stages and you're right, it's not being used much right now for every day transactions.  This is the best time to buy it because eventually Bitcoin's purchasing power will level off but not for another 10+ years.  If you're using Bitcoin as an investment, now is NOT the time to sell.

My post from above

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

This may not be accurate under Modern Monetary Theory, and it's my suspicion that the US has been (very) slowly moving in that direction over the last few years. It has to be slow to not upend the market, but once the transition is complete, the worry about inflation may disappear. 

You're saying that a dollar does not lose its purchasing power over time? It absolutely does.  Every fiat currency in the history of the world has failed.  It's a certainty the USD will go to zero and be useless just as all fiat currencies in history have done.

 

[Charlie Harper]

Did you see my post from a few days ago up thread?  I quote an excerpt about the evolution of money.  I suggest you read it.  Bitcoin is in its very early stages and you're right, it's not being used much right now for every day transactions.  This is the best time to buy it because eventually Bitcoin's purchasing power will level off but not for another 10+ years.  If you're using Bitcoin as an investment, now is NOT the time to sell.

My post from above

I did, but that doesn't help the fact that RIGHT NOW.....

BTC is the store of value phase and miners reward is about to be cut in 1/2. 

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

I did, but that doesn't help the fact that RIGHT NOW.....

BTC is the store of value phase and miners reward is about to be cut in 1/2. 

I guess I'm not sure what you're getting at or how you are supporting that Bitcoin will not increase in price post-halving.  Inefficient miners will be forced to shut down, I think that's a guarantee.  The miners who remain will require more money in order to sell their Bitcoin or become more efficient to sustain their mining operation.  If demand remains the same and the daily supply rate is cut in half, prices go up.  It has been argued there are only about 1MM bitcoin being traded actively.  That's only about 5% of available Bitcoin available to be purchased on the open market.  Newly mined bitcoins will be just 900 per day after halving.  Demand and Curiosity surrounding Bitcoin is increasing not decreasing.  To be clear, I'm not saying the day after halving the price will double.  What history shows is that within about 18-24 months after a halving, the price does a 10x.  Granted there are only 2 data points for that but that's what history shows.  Will it be different this time?  I don't think so but time will tell.

Have you seen the S2F model or the newly updated S2FX model?  It has an R-squared of 99.7%. In investing, a high R-squared, between 85% and 100%, indicates the stock's (in this case Bitcoin) performance moves relatively in line with the index.  With that said, the S2FX model predicts the post-halving price of Bitcoin to have a center cluster of $288k USD.  As stated, this model is basically 99.7% accurate from inception to date and aligns with Silver and Gold.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Yah that kind of echos my original point. People aren't using BTC for everyday transactions. At this point it's speculation and store of value. 

So miners will be getting 1/2 the BTC reward and the transactions hasn't increased to make up for it. Transactions per days has settled around 300k.  

So at some point miners will give up.

Perhaps this will occur.

In the year 2140.

(unless we come up with a second layer way to use BTC as a payment rail in the next 120 years).

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Fiat billionaires are now fleeing to Bitcoin for safety for all the reasons we've been saying for years.  

This is a pretty big deal 

Institutions are now buying BTC

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Jones' fund manages $7.8 billion. I am not real good at math but if he buys "a low single-digit percentage" worth, that's some demand.

That said, I assume he already started buying. You don't announce you are going to buy something right before you buy.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Jones' fund manages $7.8 billion. I am not real good at math but if he buys "a low single-digit percentage" worth, that's some demand.

That said, I assume he already started buying. You don't announce you are going to buy something right before you buy.

He's already bought, that's a guarantee.  Now he's publicizing it so it pumps. It's quite clear that Bitcoin has been in an accumulation phase (see: Wyckoff Method) for the last 18 months or so.  All the smart investors of the world have been buying during that time. I believe we're currently in phase D and once we firmly surpass the $10,500 level, we'll be in Phase E.  Once Phase E is confirmed, we will be on our way to new all time highs.

If you go to the link I provided and scroll about halfway down, you'll see the Accumulation chart.  There are two different charts. The chart labeled "Accumulation Schematic #2" is more applicable to Bitcoin.  Below are written descriptions of each phase of Accumulation but I think the visual chart is very helpful in understanding this.  Again, I believe Bitcoin is currently in phase D and rapidly approaching phase E.

Phase A - Phase A marks the stopping of the prior downtrend. Up to this point, supply has been dominant. The approaching diminution of supply is evidenced in preliminary support (PS) and a selling climax (SC). These events are often very obvious on bar charts, where widening spread and heavy volume depict the transfer of huge numbers of shares from the public to large professional interests. Once these intense selling pressures have been relieved, an automatic rally (AR), consisting of both institutional demand for shares as well as short-covering, typically ensues. A successful secondary test (ST) in the area of the SC will show less selling than previously and a narrowing of spread and decreased volume, generally stopping at or above the same price level as the SC. If the ST goes lower than that of the SC, one can anticipate either new lows or prolonged consolidation. The lows of the SC and the ST and the high of the AR set the boundaries of the TR. Horizontal lines may be drawn to help focus attention on market behavior, as seen in the two Accumulation Schematics above.

Sometimes the downtrend may end less dramatically, without climactic price and volume action. In general, however, it is preferable to see the PS, SC, AR and ST, as these provide not only a more distinct charting landscape but a clear indication that large operators have definitively initiated accumulation.

In a re-accumulation TR (which occurs during a longer-term uptrend), the points representing PS, SC and ST are not evident in Phase A. Rather, in such cases, Phase A resembles that more typically seen in distribution (see below). Phases B-E generally have a shorter duration and smaller amplitude than, but are ultimately similar to, those in the primary accumulation base.

Phase B - In Wyckoffian analysis, Phase B serves the function of “building a cause” for a new uptrend (see Wyckoff Law #2 – “Cause and Effect”). In Phase B, institutions and large professional interests are accumulating relatively low-priced inventory in anticipation of the next markup. The process of institutional accumulation may take a long time (sometimes a year or more) and involves purchasing shares at lower prices and checking advances in price with short sales. There are usually multiple STs during Phase B, as well as upthrust-type actions at the upper end of the TR. Overall, the large interests are net buyers of shares as the TR evolves, with the goal of acquiring as much of the remaining floating supply as possible. Institutional buying and selling imparts the characteristic up-and-down price action of the trading range.

Early on in Phase B, the price swings tend to be wide and accompanied by high volume. As the professionals absorb the supply, however, the volume on downswings within the TR tends to diminish. When it appears that supply is likely to have been exhausted, the stock is ready for Phase C.

Phase C - It is in Phase C that the stock price goes through a decisive test of the remaining supply, allowing the “smart money” operators to ascertain whether the stock is ready to be marked up. As noted above, a spring is a price move below the support level of the TR (established in Phases A and B) that quickly reverses and moves back into the TR. It is an example of a bear trap because the drop below support appears to signal resumption of the downtrend. In reality, though, this marks the beginning of a new uptrend, trapping the late sellers (bears). In Wyckoff's method, a successful test of supply represented by a spring (or a shakeout) provides a high-probability trading opportunity. A low-volume spring (or a low-volume test of a shakeout) indicates that the stock is likely to be ready to move up, so this is a good time to initiate at least a partial long position.

The appearance of a SOS shortly after a spring or shakeout validates the analysis. As noted in Accumulation Schematic #2, however, the testing of supply can occur higher up in the TR without a spring or shakeout; when this occurs, the identification of Phase C can be challenging.

Phase D - If we are correct in our analysis, what should follow is the consistent dominance of demand over supply. This is evidenced by a pattern of advances (SOSs) on widening price spreads and increasing volume, as well as reactions (LPSs) on smaller spreads and diminished volumes. During Phase D, the price will move at least to the top of the TR. LPSs in this phase are generally excellent places to initiate or add to profitable long positions.

Phase E - In Phase E, the stock leaves the TR, demand is in full control and the markup is obvious to everyone. Setbacks, such as shakeouts and more typical reactions, are usually short-lived. New, higher-level TRs comprising both profit-taking and acquisition of additional shares (“re-accumulation”) by large operators can occur at any point in Phase E. These TRs are sometimes called “stepping stones” on the way to even higher price targets.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Inefficient miners might not shut down... 

One of the problems with the distributed blockchain model is that it relies on the integrity of itself. That is, that the miners are honest. If a number of them turn rogue, instead of continuing the blockchain, they could start hacking it. 

Now, the cost and effort required are prohibitive, getting enough rogue miners online won't pay off at the current price of BTC. But, once it reaches a certain threshold, it makes more sense for them to try to steal bitcoin than mine it. 

That number isn't quite clear, but I've seen estimates as low as $25K. Certainly by $40K.

A 51% attack means mutually assured destruction so I am not sure the incentives really work out unless you want to spend a lot of money to lose a lot of money.

A 51% Attack on Bitcoin Means Mutually Assured Destruction

What would happen if bitcoin were to suffer a 51% attack? It’s a hypothetical question, but one that has troubled some of the community’s brightest minds. Just as army generals play out countless war games, enacting doomsday scenarios, bitcoin defenders like to ponder ways in which the decentralized cryptocurrency could be attacked and brought to its knees.

Also read: Taking the New On-Chain BCH-Powered Social App Blockpress for a Test Flight

Contingency Planning for a Worst Case Scenario

A 51% attack, also known as a majority attack, refers to a situation in which a single miner or group of miners control the majority of the network hashrate. If attained, this would enable a bad actor to censor and reverse transactions, allowing them to double spend coins. One of bitcoin’s greatest attributes is its immunity to attacks, be they governmental or technological. With over 31 exahash now concentrated on the bitcoin network, launching a 51% attack would be virtually impossible. And yet the very act of contemplating such an event is critical in mitigating the likelihood of it ever occurring.

Bitcoin war games aren’t just larping: they’re strategic defense.

51% Is Probably Not Enough

In a widely read article last month, Jimmy Song pondered various hostile mining scenarios, including those presented by chip manufacturers, ASIC manufacturers, and mining pools. He ran through the ways in which a 51% attack could play out, but observed that owning 51% of the harshrate may not be enough to take over the bitcoin network. According to Song, an attacker armed with 60% of the hashrate would still be expected to take 100 minutes to overtake the rest of the network in confirming blocks. Meanwhile, the rest of the network would have caught on to what was happening, and begun invalidating the attacker’s blocks. (Conversely, it is theoretically possible to attack the bitcoin network with less than 51% of the hashrate). Song notes:

No rational merchant or exchange would ever take less than 30 confirmations in a scenario like this (at least without some knowledge about what’s going on)…Furthermore, a large reorg signals to the rest of the network that something nefarious is going on and nodes will likely view these new blocks with suspicion. It’s entirely possible that full node operators on the network will simply invalidate these blocks.

Who Wins by Attacking Bitcoin?

Due to bitcoin’s enormous hashrate, it would be impossible for anyone without any skin in the game – or rather ASICs in the game – to launch a 51% attack. The only players who could conceivably orchestrate such an attack are existing mining pools, or ASIC manufacturers if they were to backdoor their miners, for example, and later commandeer them. All of these entities are heavily invested in bitcoin, having spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the infrastructure required to compete in the mining sector. For their operations to remain profitable, bitcoin needs to maintain a certain price. If a bad actor (or pool of bad actors) were to start attacking bitcoin, they’d only be cannibalizing themselves.

There are scenarios – far-fetched admittedly – in which a 51% attack on the bitcoin network could be attempted. A hostile state could start accumulating ASIC miners, spending billions of dollars in readiness for the moment they had enough hashrate to greenlight an attack. Even Bitmain themselves would struggle to assemble enough ASICs to make such a feat possible however. An alternative scenario would be for a chip or ASIC manufacturer to make a breakthrough that provided a significant advantage over existing miners. A sort of Asicboost on steroids. Once again though, the best way to profit from this would be to honestly mine bitcoin with the souped-up units, or to sell them for a premium, rather than to launch a 51% attack.

Whatever way you slice it, a 51% attack on bitcoin isn’t just improbable – it makes zero sense for the attacker. Just because the cryptocurrency seems safe from mining attacks for now doesn’t mean it’s impervious to attack however. In a post entitled “Let’s destroy Bitcoin” published on MIT Technology Review, Morgan Peck proposes three ways in which bitcoin could be “brought down, co-opted, or made irrelevant”. None of them involve mining. A few altcoins, with a low hashrate, have been hit by a 51% attack in the past. In its nine-year history, bitcoin has never been attacked in such a manner. It didn’t happen in the past, even when one mining pool controlled a majority hashrate, and it’s probably not going to happen now.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

The Bitcoin halving occurred this afternoon. I expect the Bitcoin price to trade sideways or even go down and test lower support levels over the next couple months. I still think $10,500ish is the level we need to definitively stay above before feeling confident in a new bull cycle. Stack Sats, boys and girls. You don’t want to miss this next bull cycle. 

 

[TripItUp]

What is the bitcoin ticker symbol that I can use to purchase it in my stock trading accounts? 

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

What is the bitcoin ticker symbol that I can use to purchase it in my stock trading accounts? 

The symbol is BTC but it’s not a stock so I don’t think you can buy it  on a normal stock exchange like TD Ameritrade. You may be able to purchase btc futures there but that’s not the same thing as buying actual bitcoin. 

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

What is the bitcoin ticker symbol that I can use to purchase it in my stock trading accounts? 

Tried to send you a pm but it won’t let me. Let me know when your inbox is cleared out and I will resend. 

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Personally I am staying away from bitcoin, it has little to no intrinsic value. If the SHTF I think Bitcoin will not survive. Of course this is only my opinion and you should investn in ways you feel is appropiate. I value both Silver and Gold for such an occuance.

Another question is if the SHTF how are you planning to divest your bitcoin holdings, I don't see dtoo many businesses that would accept it. 

I can only speak for myself but the majority of the Bitcoin community, meaning people who actually believe in Bitcoin as a decentralized currency, view Bitcoin as the future Reserve currency of the world. If the SHTF I imagine a world where you don’t need to trade bitcoin for fiat, you would simply transact using Bitcoin. Right now you can live purely on bitcoin if you choose. There is nothing you can’t buy with Bitcoin at the moment. Sure it’s not mainstream but you can essentially buy anything you need with bitcoin directly. 
 

There is a demand and need for a decentralized currency and Bitcoin serves that purpose beautifully. The S is HTF as we speak and fiat currency is getting more exposed every single day. 

 

[Charlie Harper]

Does BTC have a solution to this problem? If not I'm out sometime soon.

-------------------------------

Quantum Computers getting close to cracking BTC

https://decrypt.co/33086/honeywells-new-quantum-computer-edges-closer-to-threatening-bitcoin
"In the future, Honeywell aims to increase the quantum volume of its machine by a factor of 10 every year, reaching a score of 640,000 by 2025, Uttley added.

Can quantum computers crack Bitcoin?

According to a June 2017 paper, a quantum computer would need to have around 2,500 qubits of processing power in order to break the 256-bit encryption used by Bitcoin. If that were to happen, it would theoretically be possible for the owner of the quantum computer to take control of the Bitcoin blockchain; in that event, it’s likely that the price of Bitcoin would plummet.

As Decrypt reported previously, when Google achieved a breakthrough in quantum computing last November, blockchain experts claimed that it will take at least ten years before this becomes a problem for the industry. Others predict that quantum computers could be powerful enough to threaten Bitcoin as soon as 2022.

In the wake of Honeywell’s latest announcement, that timeline might need to be reviewed."

 

[ren hoek]

I can only speak for myself but the majority of the Bitcoin community, meaning people who actually believe in Bitcoin as a decentralized currency, view Bitcoin as the future Reserve currency of the world. If the SHTF I imagine a world where you don’t need to trade bitcoin for fiat, you would simply transact using Bitcoin. Right now you can live purely on bitcoin if you choose. There is nothing you can’t buy with Bitcoin at the moment. Sure it’s not mainstream but you can essentially buy anything you need with bitcoin directly. 
 

There is a demand and need for a decentralized currency and Bitcoin serves that purpose beautifully. The S is HTF as we speak and fiat currency is getting more exposed every single day. 

Don’t disagree about fiat, but bitcoin is worthless as an everyday currency now.  I believe it can handle what, 3, 4 tx per second with segwit?  It appears blockstream’s only intention is to cripple it so they can offload transactions onto their own side chains and LN.  Lightning Network, for its part, seems to create as many problems as it solves.  And people simply can’t enter/exit bitcoin without dealing with its brutal layer 1 issues.  

Brave and Ethereum founders both experimented with bitcoin as the payment/protocol for their platforms, and both gave up because the functionality just isn’t there.  That’s the choice the core design team made.  

It couldn’t handle the transaction volume of a single city let alone the entire world.  The fees are just too astronomical.  I think crypto has a future, but not with btc.  Bitcoin is just a speculative gambling instrument to be sold at a higher price later on, there is very little utility anymore.  People are going to figure this out eventually.  

 

[hooter311]

Does BTC have a solution to this problem? If not I'm out sometime soon.

-------------------------------

Quantum Computers getting close to cracking BTC

"In the future, Honeywell aims to increase the quantum volume of its machine by a factor of 10 every year, reaching a score of 640,000 by 2025, Uttley added.

Can quantum computers crack Bitcoin?

According to a June 2017 paper, a quantum computer would need to have around 2,500 qubits of processing power in order to break the 256-bit encryption used by Bitcoin. If that were to happen, it would theoretically be possible for the owner of the quantum computer to take control of the Bitcoin blockchain; in that event, it’s likely that the price of Bitcoin would plummet.

As Decrypt reported previously, when Google achieved a breakthrough in quantum computing last November, blockchain experts claimed that it will take at least ten years before this becomes a problem for the industry. Others predict that quantum computers could be powerful enough to threaten Bitcoin as soon as 2022.

In the wake of Honeywell’s latest announcement, that timeline might need to be reviewed."

Once the word "quantum" is involved, we are just pretending to know anything we might think we know.

 

[hooter311]

"profitable mining" has never been a reality with blockchain.  Miners are accumulating future expected values, not current ones.  Even 8 years ago (2 halvings), when I was involved, it cost roughly 3x the current market value at the time to mine in the U.S.  at the time btc was worth about $60.

The fact that there is a finite supply of btc is the motivation behind mining.  It has to be created so one day it will be worth more.

One huge aspect of btc that never gets talked about is that it takes counterfeiting out of the equation when it comes to transactions.  If had something of considerable value, btc is the only currency in the world I would feel comfortable exchanging it for.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

Don’t disagree about fiat, but bitcoin is worthless as an everyday currency now.  I believe it can handle what, 3, 4 tx per second with segwit?  It appears blockstream’s only intention is to cripple it so they can offload transactions onto their own side chains and LN.  Lightning Network, for its part, seems to create as many problems as it solves.  And people simply can’t enter/exit bitcoin without dealing with its brutal layer 1 issues.  

Brave and Ethereum founders both experimented with bitcoin as the payment/protocol for their platforms, and both gave up because the functionality just isn’t there.  That’s the choice the core design team made.  

It couldn’t handle the transaction volume of a single city let alone the entire world.  The fees are just too astronomical.  I think crypto has a future, but not with btc.  Bitcoin is just a speculative gambling instrument to be sold at a higher price later on, there is very little utility anymore.  People are going to figure this out eventually.  

I see Bitcoin more as digital gold where it will back another digital asset that is quicker and more fluid. Bitcoin is secure and doesn’t need to be fast or handle numerous transactions. 

 

[hooter311]

Don’t disagree about fiat, but bitcoin is worthless as an everyday currency now.  I believe it can handle what, 3, 4 tx per second with segwit?  It appears blockstream’s only intention is to cripple it so they can offload transactions onto their own side chains and LN.  Lightning Network, for its part, seems to create as many problems as it solves.  And people simply can’t enter/exit bitcoin without dealing with its brutal layer 1 issues.  

Brave and Ethereum founders both experimented with bitcoin as the payment/protocol for their platforms, and both gave up because the functionality just isn’t there.  That’s the choice the core design team made.  

It couldn’t handle the transaction volume of a single city let alone the entire world.  The fees are just too astronomical.  I think crypto has a future, but not with btc.  Bitcoin is just a speculative gambling instrument to be sold at a higher price later on, there is very little utility anymore.  People are going to figure this out eventually.  

back another digital asset that is quicker and more fluid. Bitcoin is secure and doesn’t need to be fast or handle numerous transactions. 

Sent BTC

June 16 2020 @ 8:05 AM

To: 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXxFKXbfKTXXXXXXX

From: 

My Bitcoin Wallet

$2,968.36

0.32070195 BTC

Description

Add a description

Value When Sent

$3,070.49

Sent From

XXXXXXTEs6Q8J4TKCice6XXXX

Received By

XXXXXXWtFKXbfKTmfXXXXXXXX

Status

Transaction Confirmed

Transaction Fee

0.00004011 BTC

($0.37)

37 cents to transfer $3070.49 hardly seems astronomical to me....and I always increase the network fee to ensure faster confirmation. 

As far as not having utility, I would argue that the two fastest growing industries in this country are marijuana and sports betting.  Bookmakers prefer bitcoin to card deposits because they can't be reversed.  Dispensaries can't really risk keeping large sums of cash in banks when weed isn't federally legalized.  And If I wanted to sell valuable item to someone I might not see again, the only currency I would accept would be btc.  Everything else would hold too much risk of being counterfeit or reversed.  I don't think people have any idea how much counterfeit money and materials there are in circulation

 

[lumpy19]

There may be a way I'm missing but the big hole for me is there's no quick way to buy.  I used to be able to purchase with a credit card if I wanted btc quickly but that is gone(blocked by all the cards I have).  I now have to buy using my bank account which is roughly 5 days, that's way too long.  Needs to be quicker.

 

[culdeus]

There may be a way I'm missing but the big hole for me is there's no quick way to buy.  I used to be able to purchase with a credit card if I wanted btc quickly but that is gone(blocked by all the cards I have).  I now have to buy using my bank account which is roughly 5 days, that's way too long.  Needs to be quicker.

how expensive are the fees on the cash app?

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

how expensive are the fees on the cash app?

It's pretty expensive when extrapolated to a whole btc.  I will make $50 purchases on occasion and when I buy $50 of btc, they keep about $1.15 for themselves.  So I get a shade under $49 of bitcoin. That $1.15 ends up about $208+ per full bitcoin in fees.  Still, for convenience, you can't beat it and it is free to then transfer that bitcoin to another wallet, so at least they're not dinging you twice. I use Coinbase to make larger purchases and they're not cheap either.  That said, it is VERY easy to purchase bitcoin.  Like you mention, it doesn't get much easier than the Cash app.  I can buy bitcoin, have it verified and transfer it to my offline wallet all within a matter of minutes using the cash app.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

There may be a way I'm missing but the big hole for me is there's no quick way to buy.  I used to be able to purchase with a credit card if I wanted btc quickly but that is gone(blocked by all the cards I have).  I now have to buy using my bank account which is roughly 5 days, that's way too long.  Needs to be quicker.

Cash app is super easy to buy.  See my post directly above this.

 

[lumpy19]

Cash app is super easy to buy.  See my post directly above this.

Right but I have to have cash in my cash app and loading from bank account takes 1-3 days, I'm looking for instant purchase from money in my bank account.

I can store money in Gemini and buy with lower fees than cash app.

 

[culdeus]

Right but I have to have cash in my cash app and loading from bank account takes 1-3 days, I'm looking for instant purchase from money in my bank account.

I can store money in Gemini and buy with lower fees than cash app.

I don't think that option exists.  They are regulating the transfers as savings account transfers so they will rate limit you.

Loading cash app from debit card is very fast.  I use cash app to clear transaction requirements for bank bonuses all the time.

 

[ren hoek]

37 cents to transfer $3070.49 hardly seems astronomical to me....and I always increase the network fee to ensure faster confirmation. 

I’m sure you were around in December 17, when the btc mempool was crammed.  People would wait weeks for their transaction to confirm.  Users were paying outrageous amounts just to get their tx through.  If BTC ever gets volume like that again it will run into the same problems.  I don’t see people using LN or sidechains in the future either.  Why bother?  Just use better cryptos.  

these btc fees are bananas, $18 to send 1k, $36 for priority, crazy

DBC here I come!!

 

[Nipsey]

Are people still using bitcoin to deposit and withdraw from offshore books? Can you not get bitcoin using a credit card now? I have a wallet on Blockchain. Is bitcoin for betting purposes still doable?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Are people still using bitcoin to deposit and withdraw from offshore books? Can you not get bitcoin using a credit card now? I have a wallet on Blockchain. Is bitcoin for betting purposes still doable?

You can use BTC to fund offshore accounts. You can buy BTC with a credit card. 

I haven't used Blockchain wallet for many years. There are many many more options these days. I like Cash App right now. Link it to a credit card or bank account.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

If Bitcoin can get to and stay above $10,500 then we will see new all time highs in the next 2-3 years. It hit $9,911 today. 

It hit $10,450 today on Coinbase.  Seeing what ETH is doing as well as some of the alt coins, it certainly seems that a new bull cycle has begun.  Still need to establish 10.5k as support though (currently resistence).

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

10,500 breached



This is going to be a fun ride.

 

[Rhythmdoctor]

10,500 breached



This is going to be a fun ride.

Once it becomes support, I will rest easier.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

bullish

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microstrategy-buys-250m-bitcoin-calling-123255815.html

Publicly traded business intelligence firm MicroStrategy purchased 21,454 bitcoin on Tuesday, effectively pouring all $250 million of its planned inflation-hedging funds into the digital currency.

Disclosing its bitcoin buy alongside an equivalent stock buyback in a Tuesday Securities and Exchange Commission filing, MicroStrategy, a Nasdaq-listed software firm worth over $1.2 billion, said the cryptocurrency provided a “reasonable hedge against inflation” in a press statement shared with CoinDesk.

“This investment reflects our belief that bitcoin, as the world’s most widely adopted cryptocurrency, is a dependable store of value and an attractive investment asset with more long-term appreciation potential than holding cash,” said CEO Michael J. Saylor.

Saylor cited forces working to weaken fiat currencies – COVID-19, global quantitative easing measures, political and economic uncertainty – but also the technical and qualitative aspects that he said give the bitcoin blockchain strength.

“We find the global acceptance, brand recognition, ecosystem vitality, network dominance, architectural resilience, technical utility and community ethos of bitcoin to be persuasive evidence of its superiority as an asset class for those seeking a long-term store of value,” Saylor said.

The capital allocation quickly fulfills Saylor’s late July promise to shareholders that MicroStrategy would buy back $250 million in stock and invest an additional $250 million in gold and bitcoin over the next 12 months.

The belief was that these and other “alternative investments” would protect MicroStrategy’s dollar-heavy balance sheet.

It is now clear that half of the $500 million bet turns entirely on bitcoin. MicroStrategy “accordingly has made bitcoin the principal holding in its treasury reserve strategy,” Saylor said.

 

[stbugs]

bullish

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/microstrategy-buys-250m-bitcoin-calling-123255815.html

Lol. Do you know anything about Microstrategy? I had a buddy who worked there before they started the dot com bubble pop. They ran up a ton and then reported some accounting irregularities and pop. Stock was worth 10x what it is now 20 years ago. Not on the level of Enron and Worldcom but one of the first signals that a lot of inflated accounting. Pretty sure it’s still the same CEO. They have real products but nothing special. Buying bitcoin for them is most likely an attempt to jump start the stock price which is down about 30% over the last 5 years.

By the way, this has nothing to do with my opinion on Bitcoin, more an opinion on Microstrategy’s attempt at making news. 

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Lol. Do you know anything about Microstrategy? I had a buddy who worked there before they started the dot com bubble pop. They ran up a ton and then reported some accounting irregularities and pop. Stock was worth 10x what it is now 20 years ago. Not on the level of Enron and Worldcom but one of the first signals that a lot of inflated accounting. Pretty sure it’s still the same CEO. They have real products but nothing special. Buying bitcoin for them is most likely an attempt to jump start the stock price which is down about 30% over the last 5 years.

By the way, this has nothing to do with my opinion on Bitcoin, more an opinion on Microstrategy’s attempt at making news. 

Lol. Do you know why it’s bullish? It could literally be Enron or Worldcom and it would be just as bullish.

 

[stbugs]

Lol. Do you know why it’s bullish? It could literally be Enron or Worldcom and it would be just as bullish.

I know that he’s doing it to get press and potentially get people like you to buy his stock. I find it funny because I know the company and know that they are doing it for marketing more so than anything else. Heck, I have no idea who they bought bitcoin through and don’t know if they got a bit of a sweetheart deal. The quotes reek of reading a press release written for him.

My LOL was directed at Microstrategy not bitcoin. I think it’s a move to try and get their name out there and that’s it. They’ve been limping along for years. I was shocked that they were still around given how “hot” they got way back in 2000.

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I know that he’s doing it to get press and potentially get people like you to buy his stock. I find it funny because I know the company and know that they are doing it for marketing more so than anything else. Heck, I have no idea who they bought bitcoin through and don’t know if they got a bit of a sweetheart deal. The quotes reek of reading a press release written for him.

My LOL was directed at Microstrategy not bitcoin. I think it’s a move to try and get their name out there and that’s it. They’ve been limping along for years. I was shocked that they were still around given how “hot” they got way back in 2000.

I have zero interest in the stock. No own who owns BTC would have any interest in the stock. And the headline isn’t going to make new people suddenly chase BTC via the stock.

On top of that, I doubt the news travels much outside the BTC community (google reveals must press is coming from crypto outlets).

So I think your premise is flawed. Or if that was their goal (I don’t, your anecdotes notwithstanding), I expect they will fail horribly. 

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

How would getting a “sweet heart deal” on BTC work?

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

I guess the stock is up 9%, so there’s that.

if this works, how many CEOs are going to wonder “hey, can I do the same thing here?”

bullish

 

[stbugs]

I guess the stock is up 9%, so there’s that.

if this works, how many CEOs are going to wonder “hey, can I do the same thing here?”

bullish

That was my premise. When your stock is down 30% over 5 years and the market is up 70%, you get desperate. There probably will be, but something tells me this pop will wear off because they have been treading water for years and people who bought the stock thinking bitcoin will realize that if you want to invest in bitcoin you just invest in bitcoin.

Their marketing is working. I’m not in the bitcoin community and people (you) in the bitcoin community have spread their name. I would have bet even money that they didn’t even exist anymore.