What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

BROWNS THREAD 2009 4 GAME WIN STREAK! (2 Viewers)

Listened to the Tony Grossi podcast this week and a few other beat reporters and the like...

Grossi said the odds of Mangini getting fired before the season is over is about 50%. He seems to think the turning point is how there may be blackouts for the rest of the home games (except Steeler week). He said a Monday night home game against the bitter rivals in the Ravens getting blacked out would be a VERY bad sign. Its the tried-and-true way for fans to get the owners attention - don't buy the tickets.

Grossi said Bernie Kosar was brought in by Randy Lerner without consultation from Kokinis nor Mangini. Its not been said but the implication is a lack of confidence in Mangini from ownership - already. He's basically here to kick the tires for a few weeks and maybe make some changes if needed - including a GM or coaching change.

I also heard Grossi comment on...Bill Cowher again but this was on the roundtable discussion. He reiterated that in the offseason, Lerner approached Cowher twice about the head coaching job here. Grossi said something about Cowher saying "wait one more year", although I'm not sure if Grossi was being sarcastic.

 
This led me to wonder who is the QB coach for these guys. Carl Smith. I wonder if he just says "eff it," and stays drunk all the time, like Morris Buttermaker.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if this was close to the truth.
Seems like the Jets did it right. They built their Oline around high draft picks then brought in their franchise QB.
I certainly don't mind the Alex Mack pick. The problem is, we need more talent and depth on defense too. Drafting 2 WRs in round 2 wasn't smart. I'd have selected a DL prospect and an RB prospect. If they needed a WR, add one via free agency.
 
This led me to wonder who is the QB coach for these guys. Carl Smith. I wonder if he just says "eff it," and stays drunk all the time, like Morris Buttermaker.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if this was close to the truth.
Seems like the Jets did it right. They built their Oline around high draft picks then brought in their franchise QB.
I certainly don't mind the Alex Mack pick. The problem is, we need more talent and depth on defense too. Drafting 2 WRs in round 2 wasn't smart. I'd have selected a DL prospect and an RB prospect. If they needed a WR, add one via free agency.
For sure. I hate rnd2 wr's. RT, yes. OG, yes. QB, maybe. RB, yes. TE, yes. DL, yes. S, maybe. Whoever falls (maualuga), yes. CB/WR/LB, no.
 
This led me to wonder who is the QB coach for these guys. Carl Smith. I wonder if he just says "eff it," and stays drunk all the time, like Morris Buttermaker.
I actually wouldn't be surprised if this was close to the truth.
Seems like the Jets did it right. They built their Oline around high draft picks then brought in their franchise QB.
I certainly don't mind the Alex Mack pick. The problem is, we need more talent and depth on defense too. Drafting 2 WRs in round 2 wasn't smart. I'd have selected a DL prospect and an RB prospect. If they needed a WR, add one via free agency.
For sure. I hate rnd2 wr's. RT, yes. OG, yes. QB, maybe. RB, yes. TE, yes. DL, yes. S, maybe. Whoever falls (maualuga), yes. CB/WR/LB, no.
Bud Shaw said he expects Mangini to trade down once or twice and select a right tackle in the first round, and then draft a safety. I think its a great idea, although we also need an RB prospect out of round 2 or 3. The trouble is, I am very skeptical that Mangini is a good head coach in the NFL. We might have a pretty impressive line in a couple more years. I'd look at bringing in a veteran QB and maybe sign another WR free agent next year. I think they need to work on developing the running game a lot and then take their time and wait for a good opportunity to draft a quality QB in round 1 when the time is right. But don't force it. The city is hungry just for some winning football, so building a run-first team that physically beats up some teams and makes a little noise is fine for now. The fans will eat that up. We can afford to let the Qb come to us, even if the stars don't align to draft one in the first for another 5 years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'd be tempted to take the safety first, with Mays and Berry available. RT & RG are also a priority. (Pork Chop??? c'mon, man! :banned: )

 
Saying QBs appear 'ruined,' former GM Phil Savage unloads on new regime: Browns InsiderBy Mary Kay Cabot October 28, 2009, 6:16PMMarvin Fong/The Plain Dealer“You don’t take a lot of solace in watching a place you leave go downhill further,” Phil Savage told an Alabama newspaper about the Browns. “But (Eric Mangini and George Kokinis) took what we did have going there and they just dismantled that even further."BEREA, Ohio -- Former Browns GM Phil Savage criticized the new regime to his hometown newspaper Wednesday -- and could be in breach of his Browns contract. Without naming names, Savage, now a color analyst on radio broadcasts for Alabama football, said current leadership has seemingly ruined the quarterbacks and dismantled what Savage was trying to build. The two top football decision-makers are, of course, head coach Eric Mangini and General Manager George Kokinis, who worked with Savage as underlings on Bill Belichick's staff in the early 1990s. "You don't take a lot of solace in watching a place you leave go downhill further," Savage told the Mobile (Ala.) Press Register. "But they took what we did have going there and they just dismantled that even further. "We left two quarterbacks behind that both seem ruined right now. They traded a lot of players out of there. I feel for the guys we brought in because they're good players and good people and they're stuck in a situation and can't get out for at least the time being." When Savage was fired on Dec. 28, 2008, he still had four years remaining on a contract running through 2012. Terms of his severance deal were not disclosed, but it was believed to be somewhere around $2 million a year. Typically, contracts contain language prohibiting former employees from making disparaging remarks about the team while they're still getting paid. An email to owner Randy Lerner regarding Savage's remarks was not immediately returned. But the Browns are probably more concerned about turning around their 1-6 record than anything Savage, who went 24-40 here, has to say.
obviously Phil is a little delusional, and didn't notice the Browns 4-12 record last year with "what we did have going there."also, selective memory is a great thing. i assume he wasn't referring to Corey Williams or Donte Stallworth.
 
He reiterated that in the offseason, Lerner approached Cowher twice about the head coaching job here. Grossi said something about Cowher saying "wait one more year", although I'm not sure if Grossi was being sarcastic.
I really doubt this will ever happen. Why on earth would Cowher want to take the Browns job when the organization, team and especially ownership is a mess right now. If and when he decides to come back he will have his pick of the head coaching jobs available. If he comes back next season my money is on Carolina or possibly Washington.
 
He reiterated that in the offseason, Lerner approached Cowher twice about the head coaching job here. Grossi said something about Cowher saying "wait one more year", although I'm not sure if Grossi was being sarcastic.
I really doubt this will ever happen. Why on earth would Cowher want to take the Browns job when the organization, team and especially ownership is a mess right now. If and when he decides to come back he will have his pick of the head coaching jobs available. If he comes back next season my money is on Carolina or possibly Washington.
While I pretty much agree with you, he instantly brings credibility to the table and could get the organization set. Randy Lerner, besides hiring certain people, doesn't make football decisions. He let's those people do the work. He let's them spend the money. People crack on Lerner as being a bad owner, and I get some of it, but he's not meddling in everything like Snyder.
 
Tony Grossi again today discussed Cowher in his latest article. He brings up the "Can you wait a year?" line yet again...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...reins_bein.html

The Chin is lurking: Former Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher is expected to end his three-year sabbatical and return to coaching in 2010, according to a league source who has spoken to associates of Cowher.

Cowher has been a popular studio analyst on "The NFL Today" on CBS since retiring as coach of the Steelers in 2007. Since he relocated to Raleigh, N.C., Cowher consistently has been linked to the Carolina job, should it open up.

Nobody expects Cowher to tip his hand until the end of the season, because he respects the coaching profession and does not want to influence any team owners from deciding the fate of their coaches with the expectation of him becoming available.

Cowher was pursued by Browns owner Randy Lerner in January, but told him in a meeting in New York the day before the 2008 season finale that the time was not right for him to re-enter the coaching ranks. A source said that Cowher joked in the meeting, "Can you wait 'til next year?"

 
He reiterated that in the offseason, Lerner approached Cowher twice about the head coaching job here. Grossi said something about Cowher saying "wait one more year", although I'm not sure if Grossi was being sarcastic.
I really doubt this will ever happen. Why on earth would Cowher want to take the Browns job when the organization, team and especially ownership is a mess right now. If and when he decides to come back he will have his pick of the head coaching jobs available. If he comes back next season my money is on Carolina or possibly Washington.
???How is ownership a mess? Lerner stays the hell out of the way and has a permanently open wallet. Why would Cowher or any coach/GM have a problem with that? Lerner's only problem is that he makes one bad decision every 2-3 years :pickle:

Your other points, about the team and players sucking, those are right on.

 
i'm starting to wonder if Mangini is actually going to be fired before the season is over.

all it would take at this point is one big public outburst. maybe kaa will start following him around everywhere, needling him. :wall:

worst part is, even if they put some sort of miraculous run together, the best they could do at this point is 9-7.

but i'll be impressed if they can even win one more game this year.

 
columns are games, yards, TDs, INTs

1999-present College Seasons Statistics Games YDS TD INT Anderson, Derek Oregon State 2006-2009 34 6,579 44 40 Couch, Tim Kentucky 1999-2003 62 11,131 64 67 Detmer, Ty Brigham Young 1999 5 548 4 2 Dilfer, Trent Fresno State 2005 11 2,321 11 12 Dorsey, Ken Miami 2006, 2008 5 374 0 7 Frye, Charlie Akron 2005-2007 22 3,490 14 24 Garcia, Jeff San Jose State 2004 11 1,731 10 9 Gradkowski, Bruce Toledo 2008 2 26 0 3 Holcomb, Kelly Middle Tennessee State 2001-2004 23 3,438 26 21 McCown, Luke Louisiana Tech 2004 5 608 4 7 Pederson, Doug Northeast Louisiana 2000 10 1,047 2 8 Quinn, Brady Notre Dame 2007-2009 7 963 3 5 Thompson, Kevin Penn State 2000 1 8 0 0 Wynn, Spergon Southwest Texas State 2000 7 167 0 1
 
He reiterated that in the offseason, Lerner approached Cowher twice about the head coaching job here. Grossi said something about Cowher saying "wait one more year", although I'm not sure if Grossi was being sarcastic.
I really doubt this will ever happen. Why on earth would Cowher want to take the Browns job when the organization, team and especially ownership is a mess right now. If and when he decides to come back he will have his pick of the head coaching jobs available. If he comes back next season my money is on Carolina or possibly Washington.
???How is ownership a mess? Lerner stays the hell out of the way and has a permanently open wallet. Why would Cowher or any coach/GM have a problem with that? Lerner's only problem is that he makes one bad decision every 2-3 years :goodposting:

Your other points, about the team and players sucking, those are right on.
The proof is in the pudding. Since coming back into the NFL the Browns have continually hired and fired coaches, GMs and signed & dumped players. They still stink. They went ahead and rushed into signing Mangini when no other team appeared to be interested and without bothering to interview other candidates. Now they are supposedly ready to bail on him after only one year? Sounds like poor ownership to me.

If the Browns DO sign Cowher (something I still doubt will happen) he will likely demand and get full control of the football operations which will I think would be a disaster. Cowher is a very good coach but giving a HC both responsibilities rarely works and I think it would be a huge mistake, IMO.

Then again I have been wrong before -- time will tell I suppose.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
SI_PeterKing I mean, how many more high-paid people can the Browns fire? They still owe PSavage 3.5 years' salary! They owe fired employees over $20m.

 
SI_PeterKing I mean, how many more high-paid people can the Browns fire? They still owe PSavage 3.5 years' salary! They owe fired employees over $20m.
I guess that's why they yanked Quinn after he lost to those pushovers Denver and Minnesota. It's better to pay fired admin people than your starting QB!
 
You can't hire the captain of the Titanic fresh off the sinking and then be shocked when he sinks your ship!

Mangini had no business getting that job and the Browns couldnt hire him fast enough....dumb

 
anyone hear anything about Ernie Accorsi to Cleveland?

nevermind, just saw the thread.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
THIS is a disaster....They need to start from scratch.. again! :pickle:
The Browns have quite a few picks in next year's draft. I know... tons of help is needed, but if Mangini is out, and Lerner finally hires a competent coach and GM, then next year's draft could be a huge boost for the Brownies.The glass is always half full. :moneybag:
 
THIS is a disaster....They need to start from scratch.. again! :rolleyes:
The Browns have quite a few picks in next year's draft. I know... tons of help is needed, but if Mangini is out, and Lerner finally hires a competent coach and GM, then next year's draft could be a huge boost for the Brownies.The glass is always half full. :banned:
/agree. I'd rather start from scratch again this offseason than in 2-3 years...
 
THIS is a disaster....They need to start from scratch.. again! :lmao:
The Browns have quite a few picks in next year's draft. I know... tons of help is needed, but if Mangini is out, and Lerner finally hires a competent coach and GM, then next year's draft could be a huge boost for the Brownies.The glass is always half full. :wall:
/agree. I'd rather start from scratch again this offseason than in 2-3 years...
I also agree, I hated the Mangini hiring from the beginning and then I really hated his draft so I'd be really happy if he was gone before the draft! :hophead:
 
THIS is a disaster....They need to start from scratch.. again! :lmao:
The Browns have quite a few picks in next year's draft. I know... tons of help is needed, but if Mangini is out, and Lerner finally hires a competent coach and GM, then next year's draft could be a huge boost for the Brownies.The glass is always half full. :wall:
/agree. I'd rather start from scratch again this offseason than in 2-3 years...
I also agree, I hated the Mangini hiring from the beginning and then I really hated his draft so I'd be really happy if he was gone before the draft! :hophead:
I heard after the GB on WKNR that the players have his back and are buying into his system... for whatever that is worth, but agreed. Flush Mangini, start over with a strong GM and head coach and give em' a few years.
 
Barton could miss the rest of the season with a bulging disk in his neck. At least the young lb's will be getting a lot of valuable playing time now. And Ray Rice is coming to town.

 
Per Rotoworld, Magini stated that Ratliff is not a candidate to start.

Am I missing something here? They can't be any worse with him under center.

Is Magini afraid that if Ratliff comes in and suceeds, then he will surely be out the door as he misidentified the talent level of DA and Quinn?

 
Per Rotoworld, Magini stated that Ratliff is not a candidate to start.Am I missing something here? They can't be any worse with him under center.Is Magini afraid that if Ratliff comes in and suceeds, then he will surely be out the door as he misidentified the talent level of DA and Quinn?
I was a Derek Anderson supporter for a long time, but even I have abandoned that ship. If Ratliff can't play better than Anderson, then he has no business being on an NFL roster. At this point, I'm just hoping that Mangini quits by season's end. Mangini doesn't appear to be a guy who will accept criticism and differing opinions, so unless he chooses the next GM/Operations guy, which we know is not going to happen, then I don't see Mangini working well with the new GM/Operations guy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Looking forward to not having to watch Derek Anderson guide the Browns to a loss this week! :pics:

I really hope they give Quinn the job for the rest of the season and let the chips fall where they may. Open up the playbook & let him fail spectacularly. At least it would be entertaining, which is more than I can say for the Browns since midway through last season.

 
Nice to see the Browns did not lose this week. Unless something crazy happens, next weekend should mark 2 straight Sundays that the Browns did not lose. Things are starting to look up. :goodposting:

 
:diamond:

I'm pulling for Mangini....

My biggest question is still the choice of OC in Brian Dabol - What has that guy ever done?

A big problem in NY was he wasn't able to get his DC - Ryan to NY... Now, I wish he had a more experienced OC cuz they have major work to do and possibly a rookie QB to groom.

IF. He stays. :diamond:

But, I'll continue to say - He knows and aquires Good Football Players and Good People.

 
:(

I'm pulling for Mangini....

My biggest question is still the choice of OC in Brian Dabol - What has that guy ever done?

A big problem in NY was he wasn't able to get his DC - Ryan to NY... Now, I wish he had a more experienced OC cuz they have major work to do and possibly a rookie QB to groom.

IF. He stays. :coffee:

But, I'll continue to say - He knows and aquires Good Football Players and Good People.
The OC decisions with this team over recent years are real REAL high on my complaint list.
 
Browns avoid local blackout...and...

Cleveland Browns' Jamal Lewis tees off on Eric Mangini's practice regimen

By Tony Grossi

November 13, 2009, 5:25AM

Thomas Ondrey / The Plain DealerBrowns running back Jamal Lewis, above, said Thursday he believes coach Eric Mangini works the team too hard in practice. BEREA, Ohio -- Everybody says the Browns work hard under coach Eric Mangini. Jamal Lewis is the first player to say they work too hard to win.

"The talent is there. There's talent all over this room, young and old," Lewis said of the 1-7 team. "At the same time, that talent's got to be able to be ready for Sunday and to be fresh for Sunday and be ready to go out and be efficient on Sunday.

"You can work hard as you want. You can work all day, seven days a week all the way up to Sunday in practice. But at the same time, if you're going to work like that, then maybe on Sunday you're probably not going to get what you want out of your players."

Lewis' comments were a stinging indictment of Mangini's handling of the Browns in his first season as coach. Prior to the open locker room period, Mangini talked of his willingness to "adjust" his approach during a dismal season such as this one.

When Lewis was relayed the comment and asked if Mangini needs to adjust it more, Lewis shot back, "Next question."

Lewis' rant began when asked about comments he made to Baltimore media in a conference call Wednesday. He said he's retiring after this season because he's tired. He didn't mean physically tired.

On Thursday, he said, "I'm tired of dealing with politics, tired of dealing with the whole organizational thing, just how things go. It's just tiresome. When you don't have to deal with it, why deal with it?

"[if] I'm going come out here and work the way I work, then I want results. I want to be able to go out to work. Right now, that's not what's going on. And I feel it's just a waste of time for me.

"I know we have a lot of young players. But two things, I'm not a babysitter. I come here every day to work to get my job done so I can lead and I lead by example. [And] . . . if you notice . . . I think this offense is built more as a pass-type offense. You know what system it is, where it came from. I don't think I'm built for that."

Lewis is mired in his worst season of 10 in the NFL. He has rushed for 349 yards and no touchdowns. His average run is 3.6 yards. He has six catches for 70 yards. Lewis missed two games with a hamstring injury.

Lewis first talked about retiring out of frustration following the Browns' last game before their bye, a loss in Chicago. The more he talks about it, the more pointed he gets about Mangini's handling of the team.

"The way we work in two-a-days in camp, the way we work every day for two and a half to three hours, hey, you want a W on Sunday when you work like that," Lewis said.

Mangini professes to have an open-door policy to allow players to stop in and vent. He also has weekly meetings with the team captains. Lewis is one of the captains. But Lewis said he won't take his complaints directly to Mangini.

"This is his show. It's not mine. It's not anybody else around here's show," he said. "We're just a crop. You've got to take care of your crop. If you don't take care of your crop, when it comes time to harvest, you're not gonna make no money because the crop ain't no good."

He also said, "You've got a lot of guys around here that are big-time players and can make big-time plays, but at the same time you've got to be ready on Sunday, or Monday."

Lewis is no slacker. His grueling off-season conditioning workouts in Atlanta are legendary. At the same time, he grew up in the NFL under former coach Brian Billick, who believed in taking it light on his players during the season.

"That's when you get your work in, in the off-season," Lewis said. "That's when you get in shape to get ready to go through a 16-week season. There's no possible way I can come in here and do what I do in the off-season and do it every day right here. No way possible. Because I wouldn't be ready for Sunday."

Lewis said he's practiced in full pads in this half-season "probably more than I have in three or four seasons in Baltimore."

So why not vent to the coach?

"That's not my role," he said. "That hasn't been my role with any coach I've ever been with. You have to evaluate your situation. You have to look at your players. You have to figure out why. That's not my job to figure out.

"My job is to run the football and block and do what I'm asked to do. My job is not to evaluate and see what's going on around here and try to fix it. I'm not a babysitter. I just expect everybody to do their job, whether it's upstairs or down here. It's called accountability. I'm accountable for my job."

Efforts to get a response from Mangini through the Browns' public relations department were not immediately successful.
While he most likely has some very valid points, the way he handled this is absurd.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top