Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
He actually has the most rushes for a loss of all time.
Which only makes his career numbers that much more impressive.
Many of his negative yard runs were due to ineffective line play. Not exactly a knock on Sanders.
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Bye Bye Barry (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter bro1ncos
- Start date
Which only makes his career numbers that much more impressive.
Many of his negative yard runs were due to ineffective line play. Not exactly a knock on Sanders.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
**Incoming Spoilers**
Its by far my longest post and I apologize for the length. Its Barry fricking Sanders though.
Just finished. I'm old so this is my era. How do you describe Barry Sanders football ability to someone without showing them film? You say he was poetic. The one pro athlete where u play classical music to his highlight real and it just works. He is the reason for the Madden video game juke. His footwork is phenomenal, almost unbelievable and 2nd to non. Although his top speed wasn't all time great his quickness and change of direction will never be seen again. His character was remarkable. I don't know him personally to know if he is a good man, but how he handled being a pro athlete was amazing.
Listening to the commentators for his final game in his rookie year not understanding why he isnt going for rushing title was hilarious. They didnt get it. That title was important to everyone but him. Christian Okoye reference was awesome. Dude was a monster. Good to see the name Chris Spielman again. His emotion to this day talking about the crowd of the 91 playoff game against Cowboys was nice. That td run in that game? Tony Casillas? Bwahahaha. I can remember that Sterling Sharpe playoff game like it was this past Sunday. Ugh.
For me, the biggest takeaway from this documentary was the conversation between him and Fontes. He told him Joe Montana called him and wanted to play with Barry. Management told him pass because Joe was too old. Uh. He was old but Joe would have been perfect for two years. He was old but Joe went 17-8 for chiefs and won games. Smh. Brutal to hear this could have happened. Brutal. Barrys expression during that conversation was like WTF.
I think witnessing the Mike Utley and Reggie Brown was a huge factor in Barry hanging it up. Also watching players who were close friends leave hurt. He lost his faith in the teams decisions. In the en, the decisions the Lions made took away his passion to play the game.
Charlie Batch!!!!
Luv u Barry. Thanks for the memories.
Its by far my longest post and I apologize for the length. Its Barry fricking Sanders though.
Just finished. I'm old so this is my era. How do you describe Barry Sanders football ability to someone without showing them film? You say he was poetic. The one pro athlete where u play classical music to his highlight real and it just works. He is the reason for the Madden video game juke. His footwork is phenomenal, almost unbelievable and 2nd to non. Although his top speed wasn't all time great his quickness and change of direction will never be seen again. His character was remarkable. I don't know him personally to know if he is a good man, but how he handled being a pro athlete was amazing.
Listening to the commentators for his final game in his rookie year not understanding why he isnt going for rushing title was hilarious. They didnt get it. That title was important to everyone but him. Christian Okoye reference was awesome. Dude was a monster. Good to see the name Chris Spielman again. His emotion to this day talking about the crowd of the 91 playoff game against Cowboys was nice. That td run in that game? Tony Casillas? Bwahahaha. I can remember that Sterling Sharpe playoff game like it was this past Sunday. Ugh.
For me, the biggest takeaway from this documentary was the conversation between him and Fontes. He told him Joe Montana called him and wanted to play with Barry. Management told him pass because Joe was too old. Uh. He was old but Joe would have been perfect for two years. He was old but Joe went 17-8 for chiefs and won games. Smh. Brutal to hear this could have happened. Brutal. Barrys expression during that conversation was like WTF.
I think witnessing the Mike Utley and Reggie Brown was a huge factor in Barry hanging it up. Also watching players who were close friends leave hurt. He lost his faith in the teams decisions. In the en, the decisions the Lions made took away his passion to play the game.
Charlie Batch!!!!
Luv u Barry. Thanks for the memories.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Meanwhile half the teams in the league wish they had old Tom Brady right now.
Great post. But Barry still had elite speed at 4.37 in the 40. Sure there were a handful of faster players, one or two actually ran Barry down. But for the most part, Barry could separate and run away from over 90 percent of the safeties in the league. I thought Aeneas Williams was very fast, but there are highlights of Barry pulling away from him enroute to a TD. There are so many Hall of Fame defenders who Barry left laying on the ground.
moleculo
Footballguy
Oh I'm definitely on Barry's side vs Emmett.
Context matters. Barry did have many carries for loss but how many were 3rd and 1 or 2 situations? In those situations he wasn't dancing to make an 80 yd play because the situation didn't require it.
As a pure running back with the ball in his hands there wasn't anybody like him and he was likely the best at that. For a complete RB taking everything into consideration it would have to go to Brown or Payton because of all that they could do. I never saw Brown but his size, speed, combo was unmatched and Iikely give him the nod over Payton as a close second. But I would put Sanders 3rd for sure.
(I still would have liked to see a healthy Bo focus on football and play 10-12 years and see what he would have done. I believe he would have made the case to be best ever under those circumstances)
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
In case someone brings up his teams only winning one playoff game while he was there: It was the only playoff game that team has won in the last 65 ****ing years.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Knowing now that they passed on signing Montana...that would go down as the worst Lions decision of all time. And there are a lot to choose from. That would have been my dream pairing. Like Jordan and Bird on the same team. Who in the front office was responsible for that missed opportunity of a lifetime?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
And just for the record, if old 1993 Joe Montana was available today, he would be snapped up by a long list of teams. It's mind boggling they would pass on him when the other options were guys like Peete and Mitchell. Its no wonder that level of front office incompetence eventually led him to retire.
I need to rewatch it and take notes on the graphic, but there was a list of 8 big names that the Lions let go to free agency over a couple year period. I know Lomas Brown and Bennie Blades were two, but I dropped my jaw when I realized all these guys the Lions did not extend. As much as Joe Montana would have been an incredible piece, it seems like the Lions management was content with just letting Barry keep the seats filled. When they let multiple key pieces of his offensive line go that has to be a stake in the heart. Lomas Brown would have killed to keep blocking for Barry Sanders.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
That he was never mentioned
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I wondered about that. He was in the press angrily responding about the doc. Like it portrayed him poorly. I was expecting some stuff to come up. Only thing close maybe was Fontes basically apologizing to Barry for not getting him a QB. Was that it? Even if it was. Thats silly and Mitchell needs to move on.
Because Barry was Talking to Wayne Fontes at the end and Fontes thought they were just a QB away from winning, and Barry kind of agreed.
karl.Racki
Footballguy
man, when I saw this, I thought he died..
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Me too
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Barry was the most explosive but I prefer complete backs.
You can have Barry, I’ll take Emmitt, we’ll both be fine.
You can have Barry, I’ll take Emmitt, we’ll both be fine.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Emmitt would not be a HOFer if he didn’t play behind those great offensive lines in the 90s
moleculo
Footballguy
Yup - that's all I'm saying. Barry was amazing.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
If you say so. Those who know better would say that Emmitt only had a very good line from 91-95/96 which is less than half of his career. When he had a great line he put up great numbers. When he didn't, he still produced at a high level.
He was not better at Barry at being a home run threat*, but he was better than him at everything else a running back does.
*-Ironically, it was Barry who was always caught from behind, not Emmitt.
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
Apparently there were comments made by both Eminem and Jeff Daniels. I missed them both or they were very veiled.
Emmitt 4.2 yards per carry
Emmitt 6.3 yards per catch
Barry 5.0 yards per carry
Barry 8.3 yards per catch
Get out of here with Emmitt did everything better than Barry nonsense. All that Emmitt did better was play longer and get more carries. As far as Barry always getting caught from behind....have you ever watched???? Barry 40 time was 4.37....Emmitt was 4.55. Not even in the same ballpark.
Reggie White said that Barry Sanders was the only player he ever feared. “There was one guy since I’ve been playing that I was afraid of because he could beat us at any moment. That was Barry”
Mike Singletary said “if you were able to get him running east to west, you had a chance. If he was moving north-south, forget about it. He was going to get you”.
Thurmond Thomas: "I always bring up the fact that he (Barry Sanders) is the greatest running back to ever play the game. "
Emmitt 6.3 yards per catch
Barry 5.0 yards per carry
Barry 8.3 yards per catch
Get out of here with Emmitt did everything better than Barry nonsense. All that Emmitt did better was play longer and get more carries. As far as Barry always getting caught from behind....have you ever watched???? Barry 40 time was 4.37....Emmitt was 4.55. Not even in the same ballpark.
Reggie White said that Barry Sanders was the only player he ever feared. “There was one guy since I’ve been playing that I was afraid of because he could beat us at any moment. That was Barry”
Mike Singletary said “if you were able to get him running east to west, you had a chance. If he was moving north-south, forget about it. He was going to get you”.
Thurmond Thomas: "I always bring up the fact that he (Barry Sanders) is the greatest running back to ever play the game. "
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FarFromHome
Footballguy
It's like a time machine with the Barry and Emmit debate. I'm pro Barry for sure. Having said that if Emmit was drafted by Lions I believe he still would have been a pro bowl RB.. If Barry was drafted by Cowboys? Oh my. Would have been wonderful to watch.
Lansdowne
Footballguy
LOL I did too as wellDamn, thought this was a Joe Barry firing thread.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I can list a whole lot more numbers without context, 18,355, 196, 3 rings....
Tell me all about Barry's playoff success!
All that means is he played longer (15 years vs. 10) and he played for a better Team. While Barry was playing with low-rung QB's like Rodney Peete, Scott Mitchell and Andre Ware, Emmitt had first ballot hall of famer Troy Aikman slinging the ball keeping the defenses honest. Barry was constantly playing with 8 in the box and defenses focused purely on Barry. Despite that, Barry killed Emmitt in every efficiency statistical category there is. Barry was hands down a better back and it is not even close. Emmitt a great back who cracks tbe top 10, but there are easily 5 or 6 who are better.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Happy Thanksgiving, Cowboys and Lions fans.
Both backs were great. Be grateful you got to watch both of them.
Both backs were great. Be grateful you got to watch both of them.
ProstheticRGK
Footballguy
I loved watching Barry.
I hated watching Emmitt. (because... Cowboys) Even though I will grudgingly admit he was great.
Barry was still better. Only ever got to watch Barry live and Jim Brown highlights, and I disagree with Mr. Sanders- he was better than Jim Brown.
I hated watching Emmitt. (because... Cowboys) Even though I will grudgingly admit he was great.
Barry was still better. Only ever got to watch Barry live and Jim Brown highlights, and I disagree with Mr. Sanders- he was better than Jim Brown.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I thought Aikman sucked and was overrated? I know Irvin sucked. Emmitt was only good because of his line. The whole team stunk!!!
Happy Thanksgiving dude. You can have this one.
bro1ncos
IBL Representative
Agreed. Loved watching Barry play and some of his most enjoyable runs were for less than 3yds.
Wasn't an Emmitt fan but that was more of my Cowboy dislike. Became an Emmitt fan watching him play with a seperated shoulder and being dominant.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
This is the correct answer
Hell , as far as watching highlight takes…I’ll throw Earl Campbell in my list of faves
JohnnyU
Footballguy
He’s right. There are several backs that were better than Smith. Obviously Brown, Sanders and Payton. I would also include Simpson, Dickerson, Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson and possibly Marshall Faulk.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Not about Barry but Watching this brought back memories of the Silverdome. I hated everything about that stadium. If the game was sold out it was impossible to get in and out of. You could be a mile away and it would take 45 minutes to get parked. Getting out plan on an hour, people peeing the the lot because the lot was gridlocked.
The rows were so long and tight if you were in the middle and drinking you had to wiggle past 20 people each way to get out, that started half the fights there. I went to a Piston game there and they only used part of the stadium, when the turf was peeled back for BB it was basically about a 1/4 inch of padded turf put right on the concrete floor with seams everywhere. No way would the NFL let them use that kind of field today.
My buddy ran a TGIF at the time Barry played, said once a week after practice Barry would come in by himself, order a large vanilla milkshake to go, wait in the lobby, pick up his shake and leave.
The rows were so long and tight if you were in the middle and drinking you had to wiggle past 20 people each way to get out, that started half the fights there. I went to a Piston game there and they only used part of the stadium, when the turf was peeled back for BB it was basically about a 1/4 inch of padded turf put right on the concrete floor with seams everywhere. No way would the NFL let them use that kind of field today.
My buddy ran a TGIF at the time Barry played, said once a week after practice Barry would come in by himself, order a large vanilla milkshake to go, wait in the lobby, pick up his shake and leave.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Growing up, my mom bought almost all of the NFL Punt, Pass and KIck Library over several years. My brother and I devoured them, reading them over and over. Two of the books come to mind:
The latter was a similar format but for current running backs. Each chapter was a brief profile of Floyd Little, Leroy Kelly, **** Bass, O.J. Simpson, Gale Sayers, PR/KR Alvin Hammond, Ron Johnson, Calvin Hill, Duane Thomas, Larry Brown, and a chapter on other backs like MacArthur Land, Donnie Anderson, Mel Farr and Altie Taylor.
By the time I saw Emmitt Smith at Escambia High School - I was stationed near there and had heard about him so I went to see him - I had pretty good idea what a great running back looked like. He was and probably remains the greatest h.s. runner to come from the panhandle. Over 2,000 yards twice, 7.8 YPC, ran track in the 100 and 4 x 100. Burst onto the scene in 1987 at Florida, running for 1300 and 13 TDs. Injuried his sophomore season, came back strong his junior year. Finished 1st-2nd-1st in SEC rushing, 3900+ | 5.6 | 36 TD career. All American and SEC player of the year, drafted with the 17th pick. He was a good player who looked like he was going to be an NFL star.
Nobody knew about Barry. Didn't start in h.s. until the 4th game, and then only because the kid ahead of was suspended. Ran for 274 yards and 4 TDs. Finished with 1417 (10.2) and 17 TDs. Emmitt Smith was a h.s. all-american who got offers from every major program. Barry Sanders options were his hometown Wichita State, Tulsa, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State. Sat behind HoFer Thurman Thomas for two years. They knew he was brilliant - 600 yards, 12 TDs, 31.6 on KR, all as a part-timer his sophomore year. Then came his otherworldly junior season. 344-2628-7.6-37. Runaway Heisman winner when all the hype was for the two Los Angeles Quarterbacks, Rodney Peete of USC and Troy Aikman of UCLA. There is no comparison between what Sanders did in college with Smith - Barry's stats were way better. Way, way, way, way better. He scored exactly the same number of TDs in one season as Emmitt did in 31 games. Peak YPC of 7.6 v 5.9. Career YPC of 6.8 v 5.6.
Statistically that dominance continued in the pros. Which is what you would expect when comparing a Heisman winner v an All-American, a 3rd overall pick v mid-1st round. Emmitt was thought to be a better receiver, and scored more touchdowns on a better offense behind a better line on a better team. He won three Super Bowls, Barry won one playoff game - OK, is that a function of 53 man rosters or individual performance? By any efficiency metric there is no comparing the two, it is Barry by a country mile.
Back in the day the consensus was Barry is a better runner, Emmitt is a better running back. All I know is that in my lifetime, I've seen one player play like Barry Sanders. He is singular, to me there is no comparison. I've seen a lot of running backs I could compare with Emmitt Smith. He was durable, he played on winning teams, he played for a long time, and is a very deserving member of the Hall of Fame.
Barry stands alone. For me. But I freely admit that in part that is due to me being a Lions fan. In very similar fashion, I'll concede Michael Jordan was a great player and 6 titles in 8 years is impressive. But as a Pistons fan I don't really have a proper appreciation for him, and I'm OK with that.
That said, you can make a strong case Emmitt was a better football player. Ultimately it is about winning, and through no fault of Sanders, Smith was a winner. He excelled on the biggest of stages, was part of a dynasty. There are many reasons he is deserving of all the accolades and praise he received back then, and time has not diminished his greatness.
Anyway, looking forward to watching Bye Bye Barry tonight with the family.
- Great Running Backs of the NFL (1966)
- Star Running Backs of the NFL (1971)
The latter was a similar format but for current running backs. Each chapter was a brief profile of Floyd Little, Leroy Kelly, **** Bass, O.J. Simpson, Gale Sayers, PR/KR Alvin Hammond, Ron Johnson, Calvin Hill, Duane Thomas, Larry Brown, and a chapter on other backs like MacArthur Land, Donnie Anderson, Mel Farr and Altie Taylor.
By the time I saw Emmitt Smith at Escambia High School - I was stationed near there and had heard about him so I went to see him - I had pretty good idea what a great running back looked like. He was and probably remains the greatest h.s. runner to come from the panhandle. Over 2,000 yards twice, 7.8 YPC, ran track in the 100 and 4 x 100. Burst onto the scene in 1987 at Florida, running for 1300 and 13 TDs. Injuried his sophomore season, came back strong his junior year. Finished 1st-2nd-1st in SEC rushing, 3900+ | 5.6 | 36 TD career. All American and SEC player of the year, drafted with the 17th pick. He was a good player who looked like he was going to be an NFL star.
Nobody knew about Barry. Didn't start in h.s. until the 4th game, and then only because the kid ahead of was suspended. Ran for 274 yards and 4 TDs. Finished with 1417 (10.2) and 17 TDs. Emmitt Smith was a h.s. all-american who got offers from every major program. Barry Sanders options were his hometown Wichita State, Tulsa, Iowa State, and Oklahoma State. Sat behind HoFer Thurman Thomas for two years. They knew he was brilliant - 600 yards, 12 TDs, 31.6 on KR, all as a part-timer his sophomore year. Then came his otherworldly junior season. 344-2628-7.6-37. Runaway Heisman winner when all the hype was for the two Los Angeles Quarterbacks, Rodney Peete of USC and Troy Aikman of UCLA. There is no comparison between what Sanders did in college with Smith - Barry's stats were way better. Way, way, way, way better. He scored exactly the same number of TDs in one season as Emmitt did in 31 games. Peak YPC of 7.6 v 5.9. Career YPC of 6.8 v 5.6.
Statistically that dominance continued in the pros. Which is what you would expect when comparing a Heisman winner v an All-American, a 3rd overall pick v mid-1st round. Emmitt was thought to be a better receiver, and scored more touchdowns on a better offense behind a better line on a better team. He won three Super Bowls, Barry won one playoff game - OK, is that a function of 53 man rosters or individual performance? By any efficiency metric there is no comparing the two, it is Barry by a country mile.
Back in the day the consensus was Barry is a better runner, Emmitt is a better running back. All I know is that in my lifetime, I've seen one player play like Barry Sanders. He is singular, to me there is no comparison. I've seen a lot of running backs I could compare with Emmitt Smith. He was durable, he played on winning teams, he played for a long time, and is a very deserving member of the Hall of Fame.
Barry stands alone. For me. But I freely admit that in part that is due to me being a Lions fan. In very similar fashion, I'll concede Michael Jordan was a great player and 6 titles in 8 years is impressive. But as a Pistons fan I don't really have a proper appreciation for him, and I'm OK with that.
That said, you can make a strong case Emmitt was a better football player. Ultimately it is about winning, and through no fault of Sanders, Smith was a winner. He excelled on the biggest of stages, was part of a dynasty. There are many reasons he is deserving of all the accolades and praise he received back then, and time has not diminished his greatness.
Anyway, looking forward to watching Bye Bye Barry tonight with the family.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
It was OK, you would enjoy it but not much there than we did not already know. What I liked is seeing the players names from the past.
Bob Gagliano was the starting QB Barrys rookie season. Bob Gagliano!!! In 14 games he had 6 TDs and 12 INTs and that was the best we had.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Thats like saying Steve Kerr is better than Shaq cause "game on the line and ya need two free throws? Give me Kerr".
That said, yeah, Jim Brown probably the best ever. He'd be a stud right now if you took is 1960s body and put it in a time machine.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
In my imaginary offense built on 6-8, 350lb Olinemen - Earl would be my number one back of all time.
Marshawn Lynch has entered the chat…
Shawnky
Footballguy
Your opinion and nothing factual. This is very much a subjective topic.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I thought that was understood.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
We watched it this morning. Didn't think it was that great. Too many celebrity fans telling me what to think. I would rather hear from more players and coaches. Plus it didn't add anything new from the other documentaries about Barry.
I was really hoping for an answer on why he left, or if he considered coming back.
I was really hoping for an answer on why he left, or if he considered coming back.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
They weren't so much just celebrities, but rather Detroit natives giving opinions. I also disagree with you kinda because Barry did explain why he retired. It was the first candid conversation from him about it. In the end, he got tired of bad team direction and watching good teammates leave. With first hand experience of two teammates being carted off the field, the risk and grind didnt seem worth it when team moves weren't matching that personal investment.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Kind of isn't enough, plus I don't buy it. Detroit had offers to trade him and it never went very far.
I am a Detrioter, they are just celebrity fans giving their opinion that are from here.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Anyone that actually lived through the William Clay Ford years should know why not only Barry but later on Megatron retired early and never played for another team. And they shouldn't need a TV show to explain it to them.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Most Rush TD in NFL history...
...of 10+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 51
...of 15+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 41
...of 20+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 30
...of 25+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 27
...of 30+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 23
The most electric runner there ever was.
...of 10+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 51
...of 15+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 41
...of 20+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 30
...of 25+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 27
...of 30+ yards
Barry Sanders -- 23
The most electric runner there ever was.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Oh, we didn’t watch it tonight. Everyone wanted to play “Apples to Apples” then Trivial Pursuit. Guess they’d had enough Lions for one day.
Will watch with wifey tomorrow night.
Will watch with wifey tomorrow night.
moleculo
Footballguy
A better analogy might be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, because...you know, they play the same position and one could actually make the case that Jabbar was better that Shaq...and yeah, free throws count too.
