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Capella's 24-hour, VERY bigly OH MY GOD HOW DID WE GET HERE thread (4 Viewers)

RedmondLonghorn said:
Absolutely right.

And even if there was a way to force companies to move some of the manufacturing jobs that have been lost back here, that isn't a good thing for anybody, other than the people who get those jobs. And maybe not them. 

Because those things will cost more to make, which means they will cost more to buy, which means consumers will be overpaying for them. Or those things will go unsold because they aren't cost competitive. Which means those manufacturing jobs wouldn't last long. Bad either way.
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Either that or factories will just automate.   Whatever makes the most business sense.  

 
avoiding injuries said:
So, does she just go away now that the speech is over? I have no idea.
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Yup.  She's 70 years old and the opposition party controls all three branches of government. This is the end of her career.  She'll give some speeches and write some books and play with her grandchild and call it a day.

A long-term prediction that many people won't like but if hard to avoid: history will eventually consider her a martyr for women in politics.  Obviously right now in the moment we can see that the reasons she lost and Trump won are much more complicated and nuanced. But complication and nuance don't make it into the history books. 30 years from now, which she is dead and gone, she'll be remembered as the first woman to win a nomination for president ... and she'll have narrowly lost to a misogynist who admitted on tape to sexually assaulting women because men voted for the misogynist/assaulter over her by a huge margin.

 
Todem said:
@Chet & David Dodds

Damn straight. David....you are waaaaaay off base here. We were talking about a financial collapse not seen since the Great Depression. It was very real and it was going to destroy the entire world banking system.

TARP was very successful. The US Government made every cent back plus interest. It had to be done. The bridge loan to AIG was the absolute key and the glue to all of it.

I was at BoFA during those times and I can tell you first hand.......it would have been devastation beyond your wildest dreams.
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I was working within the Treasury Dept, regulating national banks. Couldn't have been more up in the ####. The spreadsheets showed it. The numbers were run, Citi failed, and the dominoes went from there. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yup.  She's 70 years old and the opposition party controls all three branches of government. This is the end of her career.  She'll give some speeches and write some books and play with her grandchild and call it a day.

A long-term prediction that many people won't like but if hard to avoid: history will eventually consider her a martyr for women in politics.  Obviously right now in the moment we can see that the reasons she lost and Trump won are much more complicated and nuanced. But complication and nuance don't make it into the history books. 30 years from now, which she is dead and gone, she'll be remembered as the first woman to win a nomination for president ... and she'll have narrowly lost to a misogynist who admitted on tape to sexually assaulting women because men voted for the misogynist/assaulter over her by a huge margin.
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This isn't entirely on men.  White, suburban women came out in droves for Trump.  All I can think is that the female spite, the likes we see on those reality TV shows, somehow came into play in this election as Hillary's "peers" simply hated her out of some sort of judgmental jealousy or something. 

 
HellToupee said:
Lighten up Francis. This has nothing to do with that poor kid or suicide in general. It's about the schools over dramatizing the ramifications of this election cycle. They stirred the pot over & over with outrageous hyperbole 
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Sorry for not seeing the humor in schools trying to prevent suicides or deal with mental illness. Should I tell my kid to lighten up too?  He's considering dropping out of his mechanical engineering program because his best friend just strung himself up in trees behind his dorm.  This has nothing to do with the election - it's about triggers for people who are already at risk - you know, the same kids who might heavily arm themselves and open fire on a classroom full of kids.     

 
Zow said:
This isn't entirely on men.  White, suburban women came out in droves for Trump.  All I can think is that the female spite, the likes we see on those reality TV shows, somehow came into play in this election as Hillary's "peers" simply hated her out of some sort of judgmental jealousy or something. 
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Sure, its not entirely on anyone.  Like I said, the truth is complicated. 

I'm just projecting, and I think the takeaway a quarter-century from now will be Clinton as martyr for feminism/women's rights, especially considering the various gender-related sins of the opponent who defeated her.  That will be the clearest and simplest tale to tell.

 
Zow said:
This isn't entirely on men.  White, suburban women came out in droves for Trump.  All I can think is that the female spite, the likes we see on those reality TV shows, somehow came into play in this election as Hillary's "peers" simply hated her out of some sort of judgmental jealousy or something. 
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Now THIS is a sexist post.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sure, its not entirely on anyone.  Like I said, the truth is complicated. 

I'm just projecting, and I think the takeaway a quarter-century from now will be Clinton as martyr for feminism/women's rights, especially considering the various gender-related sins of the opponent who defeated her.  That will be the clearest and simplest tale to tell.
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Just my 2c...but I think her legacy is just simplified with "people hated her so much that they elected Trump over her". 

 
Jayrod said:
Now THIS is a sexist post.
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It may be.  I just somewhat struggle to otherwise explain the voting data showing the relatively high number of suburban white women voting for Trump. Optimistically, I'd like to think it was financially motivated -- but if anything over time we've learned that, surprisingly, people don't vote consistent with their personal economic best interest in mind.  So, I otherwise fail to explain it.  Saying that they sided with their husbands or their religious beliefs also seems somewhat demeaning/sexist to me as well. 

 
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Zow said:
This isn't entirely on men.  White, suburban women came out in droves for Trump.  All I can think is that the female spite, the likes we see on those reality TV shows, somehow came into play in this election as Hillary's "peers" simply hated her out of some sort of judgmental jealousy or something. 
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If you read Slate, they are basically blaming this on white women and basically saying, how dare you?

These kinds of reactions are only going to feed the narrative about how Trump won.  Slate's conclusion is that white women are racist and privileged and just want to be one of the guys and have no appreciation for the gains womenhood has made.  It's basically an attack on women who aren't ardent feminists.  And if they keep it up it might just not get better for them.  Because they are attacking, in essence, my wife.  And my wife would effing deck a feminist if she had the gaul to attack her for not being part of the cult (her words).  And it has nothing to do with racism or any of the isms that Slate uses. 

But this is all initial vomit anyway and both sides are guilty of it.  The writers that focus on blame are missing the point.  The writers that focus on retribution are missing the point.  Something else happened here that has little to do with the accepted orthodoxy of either party, the media or the politics junkies here.

 
RUSF18 said:
Just my 2c...but I think her legacy is just simplified with "people hated her so much that they elected Trump over her". 
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But WHY did they hate her?  Some of those reasons will fade with time.  The email story will seem like a minor trifle (because, frankly, it was). Same is true of the Clinton Foundation stuff. And even if they don't, these things will pale in comparison to previous and forthcoming Trump scandals.  So that will leave the conclusion, fair or not, that they hated her ... and hated her more than him ... because of misogyny. 

Like I said that may or may not be true. I don't know.  But I have a hard time seeing how that won't be the narrative that emerges in the history books.   Maybe I'm wrong.  And frankly, what the history books say when my grandchildren start elementary school isn't foremost on my mind right now anyway ;)

 
Mookie said:
Sorry for not seeing the humor in schools trying to prevent suicides or deal with mental illness. Should I tell my kid to lighten up too?  He's considering dropping out of his mechanical engineering program because his best friend just strung himself up in trees behind his dorm.  This has nothing to do with the election - it's about triggers for people who are already at risk - you know, the same kids who might heavily arm themselves and open fire on a classroom full of kids.     
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I suggest you reach out to the school and get your son some help in processing his feelings about this .  Perhaps yourself as well to see how you should deal with this subject with him.

Otherwise get off your high horse 

 
Zow said:
It may be.  I just somewhat struggle to otherwise explain the voting data showing the relatively high number of suburban white women voting for Trump. Optimistically, I'd like to think it was financially motivated -- but if anything over time we've learned that, surprisingly, people don't vote consistent with their personal economic best interest in mind.  So, I otherwise fail to explain it.  Saying that they sided with their husbands or their religious beliefs also seems somewhat demeaning/sexist to me as well. 
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Why is it demeaning or sexist to say that women may have voted based on their family and their faith? 

 
+1% in Florida and +1% in PA would've made it Madame President. The democratic party has learned from this election and will have a better candidate in 2020.  

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Why is it demeaning or sexist to say that women may have voted based on their family and their faith? 
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I didn't say family.  I said husband.  And, suggesting that a woman votes the same as her husband simply because of such fact, suggests she's subservient and lacks the ability to think for herself.  That's sexist. 

Regarding religion, anybody who votes for issues based solely on his/her religion lacks a fundamental understanding of our constitution, economics, law, and political theory. In other words, they would theoretically be uneducated and/or unintelligent. As such, suggesting as much as a sweeping basis for an entire subset of women would be demeaning. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
But WHY did they hate her? 
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I'm 54 with 4 older sisters, 3 of them very successful. All of them hate her. When I asked the question you do above I had to push for any reasons that made sense. One despised her for being above the law. Another who works with TS data daily, felt she was disqualified over the email scandal, but that doesn't explain the seething hatred that existed before the scandal. The other two are just because... I dunno?

 
:lmao:  Just a bunch of minor stuff that caused Clinton to loose the election.  Nothing to see here, history books will be totally different.

 
TobiasFunke said:
But WHY did they hate her?  Some of those reasons will fade with time.  The email story will seem like a minor trifle (because, frankly, it was). Same is true of the Clinton Foundation stuff. And even if they don't, these things will pale in comparison to previous and forthcoming Trump scandals.  So that will leave the conclusion, fair or not, that they hated her ... and hated her more than him ... because of misogyny. 

Like I said that may or may not be true. I don't know.  But I have a hard time seeing how that won't be the narrative that emerges in the history books.   Maybe I'm wrong.  And frankly, what the history books say when my grandchildren start elementary school isn't foremost on my mind right now anyway ;)
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One extended family member. Hispanic background.  She is married to her second husband.  Several kids.  She works hard, is one of those fiery Latinas who could kill you with a smile but has a heart of gold for anything dealing with her family and friends.  Sweet until you cross her type girl.  College educated, successful.  The typical female facebook poster who supports homosexual rights, abortion rights, basically all the usual left type things.  (Frankly, her facebook is highly annoying but I digress)

She hates Hillary with the passion of a 1000 suns and actively supported Trump.  To an almost herculean scale.  Screaming matches with people.  Even with Trump supports for not doing enough to support him..... against her.  Because she hates Hillary Clinton.  Why?

Because she didn't leave her husband when he cheated on her and had the audacity to stand next to him and justify in standing there what he did.  Because this girl believe that women should be better than that and shouldn't be controlled by their husbands like that, and lose their dignity (even if that dignity is only perceived by others and not necessarily the cheated on woman).  That's it.  That's why she hated her.  And always will.

 
Chaos Commish said:
I'm 54 with 4 older sisters, 3 of them very successful. All of them hate her. When I asked the question you do above I had to push for any reasons that made sense. One despised her for being above the law. Another who works with TS data daily, felt she was disqualified over the email scandal, but that doesn't explain the seething hatred that existed before the scandal. The other two are just because... I dunno?
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"Likability" is a very weird thing.  I look at Clinton and I see almost nothing to dislike, certainly less than I'd expect to see in another figure who has been in politics and the public eye like she has. But there's clearly something people like me aren't seeing, and it's not the scandals (which are tame by '30 years in politics' standards).  Certainly the GOP's tireless efforts to vilify her are part of it, but it's still very confusing to me.

 
I think the history books will show that Trump rode a wave of populist, nationalist support to the presidency. First, because that is what happened (higher turnout in rural, red areas, plus flipping all those rust belt states), and second, because it ties into the world narrative (brexit, European immigration push back). The misogyny angle is lazy thinking, imho, and too nuanced in and of itself.

 
TobiasFunke said:
"Likability" is a very weird thing.  I look at Clinton and I see almost nothing to dislike, certainly less than I'd expect to see in another figure who has been in politics and the public eye like she has. But there's clearly something people like me aren't seeing, and it's not the scandals (which are tame by '30 years in politics' standards).  Certainly the GOP's tireless efforts to vilify her are part of it, but it's still very confusing to me.
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At the risk of being sexist, we guys do the male bonding thing bigly. We fight, disagree, hold each other in contempt, then have a few beers and laugh it all off in the stands cheering for the same team. Womenfolk not so much. It could be that mother-bear nesting instinct just makes them better focused on home and family and seeing female beings outside of that as threats. Eesh, is that horrible to say or accurate? I dunno. 

editing for a prediction. Bill and the Donald will be cool and get along famously soon enough. 

 
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On a side note, scoring one for inclusion, Ilhan Omar became the nation's first Somali-American (WOMAN no less) legislator in winning her state house race. 

 
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History books.  There are going to be memoirs upon memoirs, movies, Saturday Night Live episodes, late night tv episodes, and sitcoms that get the account of what happened here pretty accurately.  

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Because she didn't leave her husband when he cheated on her and had the audacity to stand next to him and justify in standing there what he did.  Because this girl believe that women should be better than that and shouldn't be controlled by their husbands like that, and lose their dignity (even if that dignity is only perceived by others and not necessarily the cheated on woman).  That's it.  That's why she hated her.  And always will.
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So she preferred the man who openly cheated on his wives and essentially abandoned the child he had with one of them while sexually assaulting women on the reg, to the woman who lost her dignity by staying with her cheating husband? To each their own, of course. But I don't get it :shrug:

Anyway, I've spent hours here responding to election posts and making the piece.  Time to get a little actual work done for a couple hours, go home, hug my awesome, blissfully unaware kids, and take fistfuls of painkillers to deal with post-election depression plus the cherry on top of that #### sundae ... sitting through a Washington Wizards basketball game.

Like I said yesterday, much love and gratitude to all of you. You made yesterday fun instead of stressful, and now you've provided a great outlet for my misery this morning.  You guys are the best.  See you tomorrow for more of the same.

 
Zow said:
I didn't say family.  I said husband.  And, suggesting that a woman votes the same as her husband simply because of such fact, suggests she's subservient and lacks the ability to think for herself.  That's sexist. 

Regarding religion, anybody who votes for issues based solely on his/her religion lacks a fundamental understanding of our constitution, economics, law, and political theory. In other words, they would theoretically be uneducated and/or unintelligent. As such, suggesting as much as a sweeping basis for an entire subset of women would be demeaning. 
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Husband is family.  That's the point.  The sexist comment is your immediate assumption that a wife would vote exactly like her husband told her to vote.  Why would you go there?  She can't think for herself? 

I significantly disagree with you on the second point.  I vote for issues based on my religion because my religion defines everything about me.  And, frankly, not to toot my own horn or be called a egomaniac, I have no problem accepting the title of one of the foremost knowledgeable people on this board, in my family, in my social circles and most other places I go when it comes to our constitution, economics, law and political theory.  In fact, I have three degrees in those subjects.

Your post is the reason people in my demographic repudiated everything the DNC stood for here in enough numbers to give Trump the win.  I didn't vote for him.  I've been clear on that.  But I am able to understand the arguments that people in my demographic make.  And I can tell you, that when anyone who makes a statement that anyone who votes based on their religion lacks a fundamental understanding of anything they are going to get blowback in a significant and passionate way.  And the build up of that led in many ways to this election.

Those people just told you to go eff yourself.  Instead of trying to figure out why, who just keep going.  The left is still going as well.  Again, this all comes from the results only a few hours ago so the rhetoric will calm down eventually - but if you truly think both of these things, all you are doing is falling into the same trap the DNC just did. 

As for me - if I get to spend the next few weeks having arguments about the fundamental nature of the American political system I will be in poli-sci-nerd heaven.  Even as I simply can't bring myself to call this moron my President just yet.

 
Obamas legacy is now lost. Trump will repeal Obamacare for sure and with both houses of government Trump will undo most of his work. 

 
:lmao:  at the denial by a few. Many here tried to tell you about Clinton. Don't repeat the same mistakes again. Clean your own house instead of attacking the other guy non stop. 

 
The one time I'm genuinely interested in what Tim has to say and he goes and gets himself a timeout. Life isn't fair.   Do you think he will ever come back?   This has to be devistating to him. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
So she preferred the man who openly cheated on his wives and essentially abandoned the child he had with one of them while sexually assaulting women on the reg, to the woman who lost her dignity by staying with her cheating husband? To each their own, of course. But I don't get it :shrug:

Anyway, I've spent hours here responding to election posts and making the piece.  Time to get a little actual work done for a couple hours, go home, hug my awesome, blissfully unaware kids, and take fistfuls of painkillers to deal with post-election depression plus the cherry on top of that #### sundae ... sitting through a Washington Wizards basketball game.

Like I said yesterday, much love and gratitude to all of you. You made yesterday fun instead of stressful, and now you've provided a great outlet for my misery this morning.  You guys are the best.  See you tomorrow for more of the same.
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I don't get it either.  As much as I talk about marriage here when asked or interested in the topic, I can't tell you how women collectively think.  They are nucking futs.  But that was just one example anyone that proves nothing. 

I need to get work done too.  But this kind of stuff - trying to understand American politics in the wake of a possible shift - is entertaining as hell to me.

 
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