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Capella's 24-hour, VERY bigly OH MY GOD HOW DID WE GET HERE thread (2 Viewers)

I think you're being too optimistic.  Keep in mind that a lot of qualified people would have no interest in working in a Trump administration. 
I'm torn on this one.  My gut agrees with you but that may have just been while he was running.  Now that he's actually in the office it's easier for someone to say - sure, I'll be Secratary of State or defense or whatever.  Virtually  NOBODY thought he was going to win, now that he has I think he could convince people to work with him (if he chooses).

 
There was so much bi-partisan consensus momentum building on criminal justice reform, sentencing reform, etc. That's likely all out the ####### window now with the "Law and Order" President. 

:(

 
Marijuana legalization that is going on in the states? Get ready for Chris Christie to bust down a door like the Kool-Aid man and arrest anyone legally acting under state laws. 

:(

 
There was so much bi-partisan consensus momentum building on criminal justice reform, sentencing reform, etc. That's likely all out the ####### window now with the "Law and Order" President. 

:(
If there was anything close to a consensus regarding criminal justice reform among current politicians, more would have already been done to address the topic.

If there was anything close to a consensus regarding criminal justice reform among the public, then Trump's Law & Order message would not have resonated with the large portion of the public who helped put him in power.

 
If there was anything close to a consensus regarding criminal justice reform among current politicians, more would have already been done to address the topic.

If there was anything close to a consensus regarding criminal justice reform among the public, then Trump's Law & Order message would not have resonated with the large portion of the public who helped put him in power.
I said there was momentum building. Not a consensus. Yet. 

I.e. - 

Link 1

Link 2

But again, I agree with you in that that's gone now. I reckon lock 'em up and throw away the key will be the new motto.

 
I'm not going to lie, last night I sent a full blown troll message to the Clinton Foundation via their website mocking them.  It was pretty low class, but I did it anyway.  I had been drinking a fair bit and felt surly.

 
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+1% in Florida and +1% in PA would've made it Madame President. The democratic party has learned from this election and will have a better candidate in 2020.  
Made the mistake of going for next in line instead of someone that people are excited about. Should've realized she was flawed after a very green Obama swept her aside in 2008. 

 
I'm just gonna park this here, because this guy is basically one of the most reasonable people on the internet, all the time.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2016/11/its-going-to-be-okay.html
To make this easier for the lazy folks (like me):


It’s Going to Be Okay



By Tim Urban
 


A lot of people in this country feel like this right now:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/1-1.png

Or this:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/2-1.png

Or even this:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/3-1.png

I feel ya.

It’s a lot to take in. President Trump. The guy who said all those things over the last 18 months is our president, and the most powerful person in the world, for the next four years. Four years is a long time. At the end of which, there will be anotherDonald Trump campaign. This is someone we’re going to have to get used to.

A lot of people are scared right now, for a lot of reasons.

But at this very moment, there are also a lot of Americans who feel like this:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/4.png

Or this:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/5.png

Or this:

http://28oa9i1t08037ue3m1l0i861.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/7.png

Those people aren’t scared about what happened last night—they’re elated, and relieved, and grateful.

And though it probably feels unintuitive to most readers of this blog, it turns out that there are just as many people who are thrilled by last night’s election as there are people who are devastated by it. For every single American who voted for Hillary yesterday and who watched last night’s events unfold in horror, there’s another American out there who rejoiced. It’s a 1-to-1 ratio.

Hillary supporters are going to go through a bunch of stages of grief before they finally reach acceptance. I’ve already gone through about nine stages myself—and I’ve come out of them with two main thoughts:

1) This is not as bad as it seems.

2) This is a moment for reflection.

Let’s discuss #1 first. Reading the internet throughout the night, I saw Hillary supporters saying a lot of pretty dramatic things, and I think we all need to take it down just a notch. Some examples of things I’m seeing:

“I’m moving to Canada.”

You and I both know your ### isn’t going anywhere. First of all, Canada doesn’t want you. Secondly, this is still a great country you should be proud of. More on that in a bit.

“She won the popular vote. This system is so ####ed.”

Yup. The system is dumb. But if Hillary lost the popular vote and won the electoral vote, you’d be fine with it. You can’t protest a system only when you lose.

“We’ll never have a female president.”

I don’t believe that for a second and I don’t think you do either. Hillary didn’t lose because she’s a woman. She lost because Hillary is bad at campaigning and because Trump had a message that resonated with a lot of people and she didn’t. The country is unbelievably ready to elect a woman as its president and I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens in the next election or the one after. And it’ll be so awesome whenever it happens.

“Trump has no idea how to be a world leader.”

He sure does not. But think of it this way: the US executive branch needs to have expertise in about 1,000 things, and no president comes into office as an expert in more than a tenth of those things. The president’s job is to bring in a large team of experts to fill in the 90% that he or she doesn’t know about. For Trump, maybe that number is 98% instead of 90%. But our executive branch will be run by a large group of people, not just Trump, and as a whole they’ll have all the expertise of any other administration. Sure, the president has a lot of say and does have a significant amount of individual power, and that’s a bit terrifying when it comes to Trump—but I’m encouraged by both his experience running a large, complex company and his surprisingly adult choice of Pence as a running mate. I’d predict that President Trump is all about surrounding himself with experts who know very well how to run the executive branch.

“Holy #### the Supreme Court.”

If you care passionately about socially liberal values, this is a fair thing to be super upset about. But it’s also kind of an expected reality. Bush Sr. appointed two justices. So did Clinton. So did Bush Jr. So did Obama. And it’s historically unusual for one party to hold the White House for more than two terms, so history shows that we’re kind of in line for a couple conservative justices. There will be another liberal in office before too long who will appoint more liberal justices. Yes, the whole Merrick Garland thing was maddening if you’re a social liberal, but overall, the fact is that you live in a democracy where half of the people are socially conservative—so this is reality. Look at the bright side—Trump isn’t especially socially conservative, so his appointees may not be either.

“RIP America.”

America didn’t die. In fact, what happened last night is America being very much alive. Half the country felt ignored and angry and disenfranchised and they wrested control of the government from the people they felt ignored by. That’s how democracy works. It’s an uncomfortable compromise where half the country is appalled by who the president is at all times. Obama’s elections made tens of millions of people feel the same way.

Now granted, this is an unusual case. Trump is extra appalling. So much so that much of his own party is appalled by him. That’s unusual. But it’s not unusual where it counts—he got about the same number of votes as Hillary and ended up winning pretty big in the electoral college. That makes him no less legit a president than anyone in the past.

Secondly, a bigger point: no one person has the power to RIP America, no matter what they do. America is bigger than you or me, and America is much, much bigger than Donald Trump. America is a 320-million-person melting pot, run by a government made up of thousands of people working within a twisty, convoluted set of branches, ruled by a 240-year-old instruction booklet that specifically makes it impossible for any one **** to ride a wave of populist anger into a position where he can RIP America. America is un-RIP-able, at least by the hands of any president.

America survived a civil war, slavery, two world wars, a handful of crippling recessions, 9/11, and a whole lot of really ####ty presidents—and it’ll survive Donald Trump.

“But Trump can still do a huge amount of damage.”

Yes he can. And that sucks. But every president can do a lot of damage, and many of them do, and we’re still standing. And remember, the president is seriously limited in what he can do without the approval of other parts of the government, so he’s unlikely to be able to carry out anything that crazy.

On the plus side, it’s a little simplistic to assume that every idea Trump has is terrible. Trump has some good ideas and some refreshing ideas. He may be very good in some areas. He’s nerve-wracking for sure, but let’s look at the full picture.

“Easy for you to say, white male blogger. I’m brown and I don’t feel safe here anymore.”

Here’s what I’ll say to that:

This country had your back yesterday and it’ll have your back tomorrow. America isn’t the president and it’s not the government—it’s 320 million people, and those people haven’t changed. Almost every ethnicity of American was at some point in the role of unwelcome immigrant, and I think there’s a deep ethos of acceptance that pervades everything—an ethos Donald Trump can’t touch. Sure, there are plenty of racists and xenophobes—the US is a troubled place when it comes to race, religion, and ethnicity—but I don’t see Trump’s election as proof that there’s some growing people-phobia trend happening. Which reminds me of another thing I keep seeing:

“I hate everyone who voted for Trump—those stupid, racist, xenophobic ####s.”

Again, that’s a pretty simplistic way to look at things. This election was about much more than the really nasty things Trump said during the campaign. First of all, Trump won in areas where Obama was strongest among white voters—i.e. people unracist enough to vote for a black president. Secondly, Trump did surprisingly well with Latino voters. This isn’t as simple as the media portrays it to be. Trump did say shameful things, and he definitely won over some very hateful people by doing so. But he also stood for a lot more than just those things. In many people’s minds, he stood for hope and change—the same exact thing Obama stood for for millions of voters in 2008.

People vote for hope and change when they’re in pain. When I watched the election last night, I didn’t see a bunch of #######s voting to be hateful, I saw a bunch of people going through a lot of suffering hoping for something better.

Which is why, if you’re a Hillary supporter, in addition to this being a time for disappointment and frustration, it should also be a time for reflection. Half your country voted for Trump. Over 50 million people—people with kids and parents and jobs and dogs and calendars on their wall with piano lessons and doctors appointments and birthday parties written in the squares. Full, three-dimensional people who voted for what they hope will be a better future for themselves and their family.

So yeah, we’re gonna have to look at Trump’s face a lot for a bunch of years, and that’s a shame. And he might do some really ####ty things. And it’s fair to be really upset about having a guy like Trump representing you in the world and worried about how the country will fare under his administration. But if we want to make the best of this, we need to ask a question: Why did those 50 million people vote for Trump?

Trying to get to the bottom of that question will help us learn from the past and get better.

And remember—this is hardly the first time half of America has been apoplectic about the lunatic they just elected as their president. And we’ve always survived. And we will here too.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
Slate article covering some of the early voting suppression shenanigans

FWIW, I don't think the drop from 2012 to 2016 is entirely because of voter suppression efforts.  It's pretty clear Clinton didn't energize voters the way Obama did.  But it was a factor.  And it was difficult to listen to Trump whine about a rigged system throughout the campaign when 25 states with red legislatures were working hard behind the scenes to the rig the game in Trump's favor.
I heard quite a few people saying the candidates suck, and they weren't going to vote at all. 

 
There was so much bi-partisan consensus momentum building on criminal justice reform, sentencing reform, etc. That's likely all out the ####### window now with the "Law and Order" President. 

:(
Criminal justice is much more a state and local issue than a federal one. I don't think a Trump presidency hinders states from moving forward with current reforms and reform initiatives.

 
Criminal justice is much more a state and local issue than a federal one. I don't think a Trump presidency hinders states from moving forward with current reforms and reform initiatives.
Well according to an October 2015 report I saw, there were a little under 95,000 people in federal prison for drug crimes. And the federal system is where a lot of mandatory minimum sentencing happens. And there is no parole in federal prison.

So I get that there is a lot that needs to happen on the state level. But the feds could use some reform also.

 
I heard quite a few people saying the candidates suck, and they weren't going to vote at all. 
As did I.

I know a few people who claimed they voted out of civic duty and to participate in local elections, but left the top of the ticket blank in protest.

 
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IIRC from my college statistics class, 1200 people is a large enough sample size for anything, increasing the # does not change the MOE.
Of course the MOE decreases with the number of samples. It just does so more slowly as the sample size increases. There is a diminishing return to sampling much beyond 1000. 

 
The idea the RNC was actively working to suppress votes for Trump is down right ludicrous.   
Well the gerrymandering and Voters Right Act worked quite well as suppression-and the Trump campaign actually came out and said that suppression was one of their tactics.  Don't have the article handy --

 
Because they didn't vote for Hillary. That's not scary. It's going to be okay.
It's not an either/or proposition.  You can choose to vote for a third party or not even vote at all as well.  

But, to your point, while I have some guesses as to why many would strongly dislike Hillary, the reasons there, outside maybe the fact that she comes from a political family and people want a fresh face, also kind of scare me.  

All that said, I recognize it's "going to be okay."  And maybe "scared" isn't the right word there.  Maybe it's just simply depressing to think about and contemplate the answers. 

 
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I have a proposal and i don't know where to put it but i'm going to park it here.

Let's change the electoral vote allocation. No longer should it be based on a percentage of total US population but rather on the previous election turnout. Simply take total popular vote turnout in each state divided by total in the country times 538. This will encourage voting. You want a bigger say in our politics? Vote!

 
Well the gerrymandering and Voters Right Act worked quite well as suppression-and the Trump campaign actually came out and said that suppression was one of their tactics.  Don't have the article handy --
Gerrymandering was a result of sweeping local election wins in 2010.  That's the way it goes.  Elections have consequences.

I don't consider shortening early voting voter suppression.

 
It's not an either/or proposition.  You can choose to vote for a third party or not even vote at all as well.  

But, to your point, while I have some guesses as to why many would strongly dislike Hillary, the reasons there, outside maybe the fact that she comes from a political family and people want a fresh face, those guesses also kind of scare me.  

All that said, I recognize it's "going to be okay."  And maybe "scared" isn't the right work there.  Maybe it's just simply depressing to think about and contemplate the answers. 
Ok. I am trying to address fears here and there. That's all. I said this elsewhere but the reasons to vote against her, some manufactured, some wholly legitimate, are what did her in. That's politics. In retrospect it is simple to understand. 

 
That comment is from July 2015, when Christie had his hat in the ring. Christie was referring to himself -- a hypothetical situation in the purported Christie Administration.

What's that got to do with Trump?
Trump has flip-flopped. I don't think we really have any idea what his stance is. 

But it appears that Pence is very tough on the criminal side of drugs. And Christie (likely in the Trump cabinet) has made it clear where he stands. And the same with Giuliani.

So while I don't hold your optimism - I hope you are right.

 
Yeah I do.  Two parts really.  The first was economic.  The ACA especially and what is has to done to small business owners and self employed people.  Because it is killing us.  I spend more on health insurance now by almost double than before it was passed and now spend more annually than I made at my first job after my masters program.  That increase cost for people that have a small business or who are self employed has crushed the family budget because at the same time general wages for everyone else aren't really going up so there are less clients to hire that small business.  Or if they do, they want the service for lower prices.  So the small business gets hit on both ends.  It causes the small business owner to work harder for less or the same money.  That means he is home less.  Focused less on his family.  And on his kids.  It stops family fun times, or at least lessens them.  Vacations become pie in the sky dreams that you can see on facebook and pinterest but your husband can't afford to do it. 

It's an admirable law.  It really is.  But it hit us right after we thought we were finally going to get some relief from the collapse of '08 and instead it knocked us right back down again.  Wives see what the business struggling does to their husbands and in turn their families.  And unlike men who can't always connect dot A to dot B, women can.  And they know.  In our social circle which is rather large the overwhelming majority of the families have a small business husband.  Most have stay at home wives.  Those wives see the family budget getting mutilated and can directly see the ACA doing it.  Or their husbands talk about it.  I know I do.  I have to make enough in a year to pay two secretaries an annual salary just to make sure my kids have health insurance and we are also forced to get them dental insurance that we don't need.

There are of course other things than the ACA doing this.  But that is a clear focal point.  Overall, the economic issues for these families though aren't going away.  And don't just look at the white collar guys in that group - the blue collar guys are worse off.  They don't get paid nearly what they should anymore. 

The second issue beyond economic is social.  Our kids are growing up too fast.  They are being bombarded with social changes that most women aren't ready to talk to their kids about.  This is massively evident in my social circles.  The moms talk  constantly about the social issues of the day and how to deal with them with their kids.  There is no filter anymore from news and society through the parent to the child.  There just isn't.  And the changes in society which ultimately might be necessary, are scary as hell when you feel like you are losing control of your family in the process.  I know my wife suffers that a lot.  My son comes home from school with projects to deal with issues that she can barely wrap her head around.  It's too much too fast, in the middle of the economic issues above.  It's creating a stress that they just don't need or want right now.

Now, that one is a little more selfish than the first, but it also results in the same blowback I wrote about above.  If you keep pushing and pushing and pushing and the person you are pushing isn't willing to go at some point they are going to actively push back.  And I think that is what these women are doing.  At least now.  I still think Trump was the very worst messenger for the message but he was the only one saying it.  These women like my wife see society just rushing head without thinking at all and they are pushing back, hard. 

There are other ones.  But I'd be willing to bet these are in the top set of issues for the general group.  I could be wrong.  All I have to go by is the groups of women I know.  And that makes anything I say society-oriented biased.  But these election results don't lie.  When women won't vote for the first women president there is a reason.  One is clearly she is just hated by a lot of people no matter her gender.  But if you are looking for other potential "real" reasons, I'd bet these are some of the main ones.

But that is also why I don't think this is watershed change in all politics that some are saying.  I think this was a lot of pent up frustration all hitting at the exact same time.  The perfect storm of political backlash.  I doubt it lasts.  But I was clearly wrong about this election so what the hell do I know.
Sorry for the long quote, and I respect your views (and eloquence) on the topic. But I can't help but notice the very "traditional" arrangement of the descriptions you give of the families around you.  Husbands this, wives that, etc.  Your description sounds like the the definition of a patriarchal society, one that I feel is at odds with my circle of friends.  In my circle, typically both people in the couple work professional jobs.  Employment is a shared responsibility, as is the rearing of the children.  This spans across states (MA, NY, MD, GA, TX, CA) where I have close friends.

I wonder why our social groups seem so very different.

 
Gerrymandering was a result of sweeping local election wins in 2010.  That's the way it goes.  Elections have consequences.

I don't consider shortening early voting voter suppression.
A political majority doesn't give you the power to run roughshod over the Constitution.

Shortening early voting is voter suppression, but it wasn't the only thing going on.  A Federal Appeals Court reviewing North Carolina's voter ID law concluded it "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision" to suppress the black vote.  

 
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A political majority doesn't give you the power to run roughshod over the Constitution.

Shortening early voting is voter suppression, but it wasn't the only thing going on.  A Federal Appeals Court reviewing North Carolina's voter ID law concluded it "targeted African-Americans with almost surgical precision" to suppress the black vote.  
saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Nobody stopped them from voting yesterday. I would prefer if we voted on Thursday but I magically found a way to the polling place.

 
saying it over and over doesn't make it true. Nobody stopped them from voting yesterday. I would prefer if we voted on Thursday but I magically found a way to the polling place.
A Federal Appeals Court ruling isn't good enough for you?  and it's more involved than just physically stopping them from voting.

 
Yeah, I'm with you on that. But fail to see how that was a driving issue in the campaign.
in my opinion (I could be wrong, but I'm convinced this happened) the "driving issue of the campaign" was people from the rural areas DESPISING anything to do with "urban," "city," "media elite," "establishment," etc.  Have you listened or read any of what Michael Moore has been saying the last month?  It's all rolled in to this concept -- "these city jackholes are doing city jackhole things and we are second class citizens, and I'm angry and I hate it and WHY ISN'T ANYONE PAYING ATTENTION MY WAY OF LIFE IS DYING."  THAT is what happened this election (and it gets further exasperated because when some poor sap says his "way of life is dying," some liberal ##### says something like: "oh, you mean racism and homophopia? That's dying?  Good riddance." 

But that's not what he meant.  He means the factories are gone, the small businesses have been driven out by Wal-Mart, his town is turning into a ghost town, and NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE.  Particularly not the media.

So.  It all gets wrapped up together.  The condescending attitude, the holier than thou, the calling them simpletons, and yes, the "safe spaces."  That fits the narrative, man.  We need to see it and acknowledge it.  We really do.  Because these people are angry and they are using the last scrap of power they have left.  They voted.  And they gave a big FU to those of us who left our old home towns, got our fancy degrees, and forgot about them.  Jokes on us, I guess. 

 

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