Car Market going forward (2 Viewers)

[FairWarning]

We drive a 2008 Toyota Camry hybrid, and a 2015 Dodge Caravan. The Caravan is generally mine for hauling kids and stuff, although the wife drives it when she has to shuttle kids or if the weather is lousy. The Camry has been a great car. Was gifted to us from my father in law 7 or 8 years ago, have maybe sunk $1000 into it since then. It has almost 200,000 mils on it. He warned us that it would need a new battery at some point - and well, that day has come. Almost 5K for a new one installed. Car needs struts as well.

So - she lived a good life. We are ready to move on, but now we gotta move fast, for the car is undrivable and we aren't gonna sink $7200 into it.

We had been debating an EV, or hyrbid. And well, now we gotta make a move. If this has been discussed, can someone point me to a good spot? But we are looking to spend less than 30K or so. Used or new. Looking at Hyundai Kona EV or Chevy Bolt EV, or RAV4 hybrid, or I don't know. Really like the Ioniq 5 but don't think we wanna spend that much.

Anyone got some strong feelings with some solid data to back it up on what we should get? I lean EV for it will work really well with our commutes (less than 10 miles each) and amount of times we need to drive over 200 miles (very infrequently) and locations of charging stations at our work.

Probably best to get Consumer Reports - they have an EV section. Here's Motor Trend's article.

Also, make sure you know which makes still get the $7500 tax credit (note: it changed this year and the US manufacturers are back in play).

Also, plan on getting a charger installed at home ASAP. Essentially, an electrician installs a 240 V welding outlet, and you plug in a charging unit with a cord you use to recharge. Here's an article on the major options. You can get tax credits for that also - ask your electric company for details. My utility required one with wifi to get the rebate (I got the ChargePoint). These take something like 8 hours to go from 0-80%.

In public, the thing to know is that there are two types of DC fast chargers: 1) Tesla and 2) Everyone else. If you get something other than a Tesla, you can't use Tesla chargers. Maybe you can with an adapter or something, but I don't have an adapter. Using an AC charger in public isn't really feasible, since they're so slow. At work, it would be fine, but not on a road trip.

Your last paragraph is interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a EV charger that wasn’t a Tesla.

 

[the moops]

Your last paragraph is interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a EV charger that wasn’t a Tesla.

Looks like Tesla only has the 2nd most charging stations to ChargePoint

US Charging Network Rankings | EVAdoption

evadoption.com

 

[Faust]

Car Dealership Guy @GuyDealership
Just in:

Used car prices officially increased 2.5% in January.

The *largest* month-over-month percentage increase since end of 2021.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622963119390703617?s=21

Is this seasonal?

Somewhat.

But there are other factors that indicate a hotter-than-normal market.

For example:

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622965466128957442?s=21

According to Manheim:

The average daily sales conversion rate (all cars) increased to 59.4% and was above normal for this time of year.

For context, the daily sales conversion rate averaged 57.7% in January 2019.

This indicates that sellers have more pricing power at auctions.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622965467869503489?s=21

Reminder that this refers to Wholesale prices — What dealers pay at auctions.

It can take 30-60+ days before this shows up in Retail prices.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622966844461293573?s=21

Car Dealership Guy @GuyDealership
I can’t stress this enough, the pace at which used car prices are rising at dealer auctions right now is absolutely baffling.

As of this morning, auction prices are *much* higher than January.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1623338069922402305?s=21

 

[Tick]

Your last paragraph is interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a EV charger that wasn’t a Tesla.

Looks like Tesla only has the 2nd most charging stations to ChargePoint

US Charging Network Rankings | EVAdoption

evadoption.com

I would refer to the second chart - it’s the DC fast chargers that matter. Looks like it’s 58/42 between Tesla and everyone else.

 

[pollardsvision]

Car Dealership Guy @GuyDealership
Just in:

Used car prices officially increased 2.5% in January.

The *largest* month-over-month percentage increase since end of 2021.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622963119390703617?s=21

Is this seasonal?

Somewhat.

But there are other factors that indicate a hotter-than-normal market.

For example:

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622965466128957442?s=21

According to Manheim:

The average daily sales conversion rate (all cars) increased to 59.4% and was above normal for this time of year.

For context, the daily sales conversion rate averaged 57.7% in January 2019.

This indicates that sellers have more pricing power at auctions.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622965467869503489?s=21

Reminder that this refers to Wholesale prices — What dealers pay at auctions.

It can take 30-60+ days before this shows up in Retail prices.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1622966844461293573?s=21

Car Dealership Guy @GuyDealership
I can’t stress this enough, the pace at which used car prices are rising at dealer auctions right now is absolutely baffling.

As of this morning, auction prices are *much* higher than January.

https://twitter.com/guydealership/status/1623338069922402305?s=21

This guy has a nice YT channels. Small car dealer in NC that reports from auctions.

In this episode, they are discussing a (hideous, IMO) 2007 Hummer with 166K miles on it. Banks will only approve 14K for it. It went for $18,600 at the wholesale auction (they all knew it would go for about that much). Will need to be sold for about $24K to make it worth the dealer's investment. Again, $10K over what a reasonable lender would lend for it.

Another episode discussing the effect tax season will have on dealers over the next several months. Basically, used car dealers are about sell a whole bunch of their inventory when tax checks come out. Then they'll all go the auction to spend that cash to overpay for more inventory.

 

[PIK95]

Paid $150 at the dealer to get new squirters on my 2004 Honda Accord today. I bought it new, and it still runs fine. My son came home from the hospital in it,and now he drives it also. Good times.

 

[Van Dyman]

We drive a 2008 Toyota Camry hybrid, and a 2015 Dodge Caravan. The Caravan is generally mine for hauling kids and stuff, although the wife drives it when she has to shuttle kids or if the weather is lousy. The Camry has been a great car. Was gifted to us from my father in law 7 or 8 years ago, have maybe sunk $1000 into it since then. It has almost 200,000 mils on it. He warned us that it would need a new battery at some point - and well, that day has come. Almost 5K for a new one installed. Car needs struts as well.

So - she lived a good life. We are ready to move on, but now we gotta move fast, for the car is undrivable and we aren't gonna sink $7200 into it.

We had been debating an EV, or hyrbid. And well, now we gotta make a move. If this has been discussed, can someone point me to a good spot? But we are looking to spend less than 30K or so. Used or new. Looking at Hyundai Kona EV or Chevy Bolt EV, or RAV4 hybrid, or I don't know. Really like the Ioniq 5 but don't think we wanna spend that much.

Anyone got some strong feelings with some solid data to back it up on what we should get? I lean EV for it will work really well with our commutes (less than 10 miles each) and amount of times we need to drive over 200 miles (very infrequently) and locations of charging stations at our work.

Regarding the bolded, if you look at a Chevy Bolt you should find out if the battery pack has been replaced or not. All of those were recalled and the battery packs are being replaced, but there were so many it was taking a long time and I don't think they have finished yet.

Chevy Bolt EV & EUV Recall | Chevrolet

Learn more about the Chevrolet Bolt EV & EUV recall. GM's commitment to safety insures that all Bolt owner's are able to charge & drive their EV's safely.

www.chevrolet.com

 

[Van Dyman]

@the moops One more note on that Bolt thing...the replacement batteries are stronger than original AND restart the battery warranty. Just don'g park them indoors before the battery has been replaced.

Bolt owners had to go through a lot over the past two years, including reduced range and a lot of anxiety. However, after replacement, older models are erasing years of range degradation due to age. The replacement packs for 2017 to 2019 models are also 6 kWh (or 10%) higher capacity than their originals. That translates into increased range -- and a courtesy restart on their battery warranty.

What We’ve Learned After 2 Years Of Chevy Bolt Recall

We take a deep dive into the huge Chevy Bolt battery recall and discovers some very interesting findings.

insideevs.com

 

[the moops]

@the moops One more note on that Bolt thing...the replacement batteries are stronger than original AND restart the battery warranty. Just don'g park them indoors before the battery has been replaced.

Bolt owners had to go through a lot over the past two years, including reduced range and a lot of anxiety. However, after replacement, older models are erasing years of range degradation due to age. The replacement packs for 2017 to 2019 models are also 6 kWh (or 10%) higher capacity than their originals. That translates into increased range -- and a courtesy restart on their battery warranty.

What We’ve Learned After 2 Years Of Chevy Bolt Recall

We take a deep dive into the huge Chevy Bolt battery recall and discovers some very interesting findings.

insideevs.com

Thanks for info. I am looking at a new Bolt though for I get the 7500 tax credit and a home charger installed.

 

[Ron Swanson]

The Bolt is a heck of a deal with the rebate. It's more economy than fun but should be very solid.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Just sold my 2009 Honda Civic Si for 5k.

Bought new for 23k. Can’t believe I got 5k for it after 170,000 miles. Needed a paint job badly & leaked oil.

Was a fun ride and a great purchase - definitely got my $$$ worth.

 

[Warrior]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Drove past CarMax the other day and the parking lot was LOADED with vehicles unlike in the past year or so. That seems like a good sign.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

I mean resale value alone, im going with the Honda over the Kia.

 

[massraider]

Drove past CarMax the other day and the parking lot was LOADED with vehicles unlike in the past year or so. That seems like a good sign.

Have a buddy from a dealership in CT that my family got all their cars from. He said that people getting great deals are the ones getting cars not everyone wants. Which, he says, is always the case.

Used Accord, Tundra, Forerunner, etc? Yeah, secret is out. There's not going to be any good deals on those.

If you are flexible on model, and can move when you find a deal, there are deals to be had. But that's what, 10% of car buyers?

 

[Willy]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

 

[belljr]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

I have a 2019 Honda Passport Elite Basically a pilot without the 3rd row.

Absolutely love it

 

[Warrior]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

 

[massraider]

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy

You wanna talk about some bad PR for your car company....

 

[fightingillini]

I am also in the camp that buys Japanese cars for most of my life post college. My first car out of of college was a Chevy Cavalier and it sucked. Big time. From that point on, my wife and I have only driven Hondas, Acuras and Infinitis. I currently have a 2008 Acura RL with 185K miles and my wife has a 2007 Honda Pilot with about 175K miles. We both would like to buy certified preowned cars but the prices have been insane. I can't get myself to pay 5K over the market price.

Me....I am looking at two cars.....the Accord or a the Kia K5. I like the K5 a lot, but I wonder about the reliability (Hondas the gold standard for reliability). Anyone own a Kia or a Hyundai and what is your story on their reliability?

 

[CletiusMaximus]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

We essentially can't own a Kia or Hyundai in Milwaukee, WI unless we have secured parking 24/7. The police give out free steering wheel lock/bars to anyone who owns a kia or Hyundai in the City - starting a couple years ago.

Rental companies won't lease them here and try to prohibit anyone from bringing one here --> https://external-preview.redd.it/Uk...ed&s=2fd2bd41b657c2f413a15321cb4365ae6d460726

Google "Kia Boyz Milwaukee" to read all about it.

Both companies do have some great models though so no worries if you live somewhere this trend hasn't reached or can secure your car 24/7.

 

[dkp993]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

When we purchased our SUV a couple years ago I was deep down the rabbit hole of Pilot vs Telluride vs Highlander. The pilot got ruled out pretty early on as it just looks too much like a minivan (they recently did facelift on the front to help change it due to negative feedback) and it also felt cheaper inside (even on the elite package). So it was down to the Highlander vs Kia. I liked the Kia a bit better, though it was very close, but at the time the demand for them was so high it was driving the price up. We ended up with the hybrid Limited Platinum Highlander for a much better deal then we could get the Kia. Had it 2 yrs now and it’s been fantastic. Had the prices been equal trim level to trim level we likely would have got the Kia but it’s was a close decision.

 

[culdeus]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

A lot of hkmc cars lacked the security features of models of the era and are easily stolen.

 

[Tick]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

We essentially can't own a Kia or Hyundai in Milwaukee, WI unless we have secured parking 24/7. The police give out free steering wheel lock/bars to anyone who owns a kia or Hyundai in the City - starting a couple years ago.

Rental companies won't lease them here and try to prohibit anyone from bringing one here --> https://external-preview.redd.it/Uk...ed&s=2fd2bd41b657c2f413a15321cb4365ae6d460726

Google "Kia Boyz Milwaukee" to read all about it.

Both companies do have some great models though so no worries if you live somewhere this trend hasn't reached or can secure your car 24/7.

It was only up until something like 2020 models - I think it's basically the old round logo instead of the one that looks like KN.

 

[thecatch]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

I have a 2019 Honda Passport Elite Basically a pilot without the 3rd row.

Absolutely love it

I have a 2019 Pilot. It needed a bunch of minor work the first couple of years (which was all covered by warranty). Eventually they seemed to work the kinks out and it's great now.

 

[flapgreen]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

 

[pollardsvision]

Speaking of trucks, Jerry Wayne's Truck Astrology videos are always fun.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

 

[flapgreen]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

No idea what any of this means.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

No idea what any of this means.

No need to be coy, Roy (although you seem more like a Ray, from Rain Man -- my favorite). Take that as a compliment.

It means . . . good luck with the recent purchase of your Ford F-150. Which quite possibly is NOT built to last.

So talking about "No idea what any of this means" is quite ironic, in the context of things. How does one know that they "can't imagine owning anything else", when there is no evidence to the contrary? In fact, if anything, there is plenty of evidence to show that, long-term, an F-150 does not stand the test of time.

Feel free to prove/show otherwise.

 

[The Z Machine]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

We essentially can't own a Kia or Hyundai in Milwaukee, WI unless we have secured parking 24/7. The police give out free steering wheel lock/bars to anyone who owns a kia or Hyundai in the City - starting a couple years ago.

Rental companies won't lease them here and try to prohibit anyone from bringing one here --> https://external-preview.redd.it/Uk...ed&s=2fd2bd41b657c2f413a15321cb4365ae6d460726

Google "Kia Boyz Milwaukee" to read all about it.

Both companies do have some great models though so no worries if you live somewhere this trend hasn't reached or can secure your car 24/7.

It was only up until something like 2020 models - I think it's basically the old round logo instead of the one that looks like KN.

Damn, I never heard of this until now. Doing some research, my 2015 Santa Fe isn't susceptible to this hack because it has no physical key for the ignition / starter. It does seem to have the engine immobilizer due to the RF keyfob + pushbutton starter.

 

[Tick]

Just weird phrasing.

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

We essentially can't own a Kia or Hyundai in Milwaukee, WI unless we have secured parking 24/7. The police give out free steering wheel lock/bars to anyone who owns a kia or Hyundai in the City - starting a couple years ago.

Rental companies won't lease them here and try to prohibit anyone from bringing one here --> https://external-preview.redd.it/Uk...ed&s=2fd2bd41b657c2f413a15321cb4365ae6d460726

Google "Kia Boyz Milwaukee" to read all about it.

Both companies do have some great models though so no worries if you live somewhere this trend hasn't reached or can secure your car 24/7.

It was only up until something like 2020 models - I think it's basically the old round logo instead of the one that looks like KN.

Damn, I never heard of this until now. Doing some research, my 2015 Santa Fe isn't susceptible to this hack because it has no physical key for the ignition / starter. It does seem to have the engine immobilizer due to the RF keyfob + pushbutton starter.

The problem is that it doesn't matter if it's secure or not, it only matters whether the wrong person thinks it's vulnerable. They'll smash out the window before they find out.

The logo is an obvious change, I hope they use that to decide since I have one with the new logo.

 

[Van Dyman]

Looking at getting a bigger SUV with #2 on the way. Mainly looking at the Honda Pilot, Kia Telluride and possibly the Pallisade. Prices are indeed crazy. Can't believe you can spend $45k+ on a new one and not even get a power liftgate included. And while I'm here, any thoughts on the Pilot vs the Telluride?

Consumer Reports has been pretty tough on the Honda Pilot since 2015. Only the 2020 model scored above average for reliability. 2022 got the worst rating, 2023 hasn't been rated yet. I found this a little shocking. Haven't been paying much attention to recent trends. Toyota and Honda have always scored so high it was almost like muscle memory at this point.

Telluride actually scored the highest of the 2023 Mid-sized SUVs they've rated so far. Personally, I don't want a Kia or Hyundai until the stolen car craze has passed. The brand new Telluride should have safeguards in place, but it looks so much like the ones that don't that I fully expect a lot of attempted thefts of these things. Maybe that's not a concern where you are.

Very interesting. Can you tell me more about the "stolen car craze"? I'm totally out of the loop on this

Edit: I'm reading about it now. Easily hot-wired and related to a Tik-Tok challenge. Crazy!

We essentially can't own a Kia or Hyundai in Milwaukee, WI unless we have secured parking 24/7. The police give out free steering wheel lock/bars to anyone who owns a kia or Hyundai in the City - starting a couple years ago.

Rental companies won't lease them here and try to prohibit anyone from bringing one here --> https://external-preview.redd.it/Uk...ed&s=2fd2bd41b657c2f413a15321cb4365ae6d460726

Google "Kia Boyz Milwaukee" to read all about it.

Both companies do have some great models though so no worries if you live somewhere this trend hasn't reached or can secure your car 24/7.

How timely, starting today Hyundai has a software update available to fix this. The way it will work is if you locked the car with the key fob, it cannot be started by any means at all until you unlock it with the key fob.

It will take one hour at the dealer and is a phased rollout, available today for some models but not all. Will include window decals indicating the anti-theft is installed.

Home - Hyundai

Anti-Theft Software Upgrade In response to increasing and persistent thefts targeting certain Hyundai vehicles without push-button ignitions and immobilizing anti-theft devices, Hyundai has introduced a free anti-theft software upgrade for affected customers. All of the nearly 4 million vehicles...

www.hyundaiantitheft.com

https://www.hyundainews.com/en-us/releases/3768?uuid=2n1PcwpfjlPv8Zr43832

Service Campaign Rollout Schedule

Phase	Vehicle	Software Availability
1	2017-2020 Elantra 2015-2019 Sonata 2020-2021 Venue	February 14, 2023
2	2018-2022 Accent 2011-2016 Elantra 2021-2022 Elantra 2018-2020 Elantra GT 2011-2014 Genesis Coupe 2018-2022 Kona 2020-2021 Palisade 2013-2018 Santa Fe Sport 2013-2022 Santa Fe 2019 Santa Fe XL 2011-2014 Sonata 2011-2022 Tucson 2012-2017, 2019-2021 Veloster	June 2023

 

[KGB]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

 

[Nugget]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

No idea what any of this means.

No need to be coy, Roy (although you seem more like a Ray, from Rain Man -- my favorite). Take that as a compliment.

It means . . . good luck with the recent purchase of your Ford F-150. Which quite possibly is NOT built to last.

So talking about "No idea what any of this means" is quite ironic, in the context of things. How does one know that they "can't imagine owning anything else", when there is no evidence to the contrary? In fact, if anything, there is plenty of evidence to show that, long-term, an F-150 does not stand the test of time.

Feel free to prove/show otherwise.

They probably are a fad.

 

[gianmarco]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

You need to look up the value of your vehicle now with current miles.

Then you look up the residual value of your vehicle at lease end (that number is fixed from when you signed your lease). It's also called the payoff.

If you're car is worth more than the residual/payoff, then you're throwing money away if you just turn in the car.

If the payoff is $20K, and your car is worth $25K, you just handed over $5K.

Basically, if that's the case, you buy the car for the payoff and then sell it for whatever profit. That can be done at the dealership but you will always get less from them than you would in the private market. Just depends on how much you want to do, what your time/effort is worth, and what the dealer is willing to give you.

Prices are coming down on used cars but they are still inflated. You'd be foolish to not get the above info that would take about 5 minutes of your time. You can check value at places like KBB or Edmunds or Truecar. Unless your car is worth less than the payoff or only barely above it, take advantage of the current market and get money back.

 

[Desert_Power]

I need to buy a SUV, but hate trying to even wade into this market. Was hoping society banned car dealerships by now.

 

[KGB]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

You need to look up the value of your vehicle now with current miles.

Then you look up the residual value of your vehicle at lease end (that number is fixed from when you signed your lease). It's also called the payoff.

If you're car is worth more than the residual/payoff, then you're throwing money away if you just turn in the car.

If the payoff is $20K, and your car is worth $25K, you just handed over $5K.

Basically, if that's the case, you buy the car for the payoff and then sell it for whatever profit. That can be done at the dealership but you will always get less from them than you would in the private market. Just depends on how much you want to do, what your time/effort is worth, and what the dealer is willing to give you.

Prices are coming down on used cars but they are still inflated. You'd be foolish to not get the above info that would take about 5 minutes of your time. You can check value at places like KBB or Edmunds or Truecar. Unless your car is worth less than the payoff or only barely above it, take advantage of the current market and get money back.

Thank you very much. I have no idea about leases.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

You need to look up the value of your vehicle now with current miles.

Then you look up the residual value of your vehicle at lease end (that number is fixed from when you signed your lease). It's also called the payoff.

If you're car is worth more than the residual/payoff, then you're throwing money away if you just turn in the car.

If the payoff is $20K, and your car is worth $25K, you just handed over $5K.

Basically, if that's the case, you buy the car for the payoff and then sell it for whatever profit. That can be done at the dealership but you will always get less from them than you would in the private market. Just depends on how much you want to do, what your time/effort is worth, and what the dealer is willing to give you.

Prices are coming down on used cars but they are still inflated. You'd be foolish to not get the above info that would take about 5 minutes of your time. You can check value at places like KBB or Edmunds or Truecar. Unless your car is worth less than the payoff or only barely above it, take advantage of the current market and get money back.

Thank you very much. I have no idea about leases.

This. 100%. My parents just bought out their lease on on a Volvo XC60? Very few miles due to Covid. They’re 10k ahead at this point. I told them I’d buy it at their payoff price if they didn’t want it anymore. They kept it.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I need to buy a SUV, but hate trying to even wade into this market. Was hoping society banned car dealerships by now.

If you’re going used we’ve purchased 3 vehicles through Carmax over the years and have had a great experience with all 3.


New
- Find the truck you want, specifically which trim option you want
-check on auto trader for its value and what they’re selling for in your area.
- Email all the dealers in your area -tell them you work for company that does disaster/emergencies and you can’t come in and you can’t talk on the phone, only email and text.
- half will blow you off, but eventually that “lead” will get passed to the new sales guys/gals and they will eventually want that easy sale to pad a number or move the vehicle.

The last two new vehicles I’ve purchased I didn’t meet the sales guy or go to the dealer until the truck and paperwork was all ready.
Took about an hour to GTFO of there.

ETA - you can’t be in a rush, the whole process took a little over a month each time.

 

[belljr]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

Genesis is Hyundai "luxury"

Think Honda - Acura, Toyota - Lexus

 

[Ministry of Pain]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

Genesis are really nice automobiles. Friend had a G80, I never wanted to get out of the car.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

Genesis are really nice automobiles. Friend had a G80, I never wanted to get out of the car.

I’ve never been in one but they’re nice looking on the outside.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

Genesis are really nice automobiles. Friend had a G80, I never wanted to get out of the car.

I’ve never been in one but they’re nice looking on the outside.

I'm on the tall side, 6-3 and long legs and I had space for days.
Loved riding in the back seat when we took our wives out.
Very luxurious feel

 

[ChiefD]

2026 Genesis GV80 | Midsize Luxury SUV | Genesis USA

Discover the 2026 Genesis GV80: luxury midsize SUV with advanced technology, intuitive features & top-tier safety. View specs, pricing, images, and more.

www.genesis.com

I have a lease coming up (Grand cherokee, like 8000 miles over 3 .5 years.) saw this. I barely have even heard of the company. Should I legit look into it? any feedback on genesis?

2nd question. Im not normally a lease guy. With having such few miles on the lease, do I get money back? Im not looking to rebuy/lease at the end. just looking to dump it

Genesis are really nice automobiles. Friend had a G80, I never wanted to get out of the car.

Tiger Woods can vouch for the safety of them in a crash situation.

 

[KGB]

Thank you everyone for letting me know the genesis is legit

 

[flapgreen]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

No idea what any of this means.

No need to be coy, Roy (although you seem more like a Ray, from Rain Man -- my favorite). Take that as a compliment.

It means . . . good luck with the recent purchase of your Ford F-150. Which quite possibly is NOT built to last.

So talking about "No idea what any of this means" is quite ironic, in the context of things. How does one know that they "can't imagine owning anything else", when there is no evidence to the contrary? In fact, if anything, there is plenty of evidence to show that, long-term, an F-150 does not stand the test of time.

Feel free to prove/show otherwise.

Sure, guy.

 

[fatness]

I need to buy a SUV, but hate trying to even wade into this market. Was hoping society banned car dealerships by now.

If you’re going used we’ve purchased 3 vehicles through Carmax over the years and have had a great experience with all 3.

Big fan of Carmax here. At auto auctions their buyers avoid the crappy vehicles and concentrate on good ones, and usually outbid others for those vehicles. They want good vehicles to start with, then fix them up to their standards and sell them. I've bought 3 from them. All 3 are still on the road, and the work truck is over 300k miles now.

You can research their inventory nationwide and get vehicles shipped to the Carmax near you, often for free, to test drive sometimes.

 

[Desert_Power]

I need to buy a SUV, but hate trying to even wade into this market. Was hoping society banned car dealerships by now.

If you’re going used we’ve purchased 3 vehicles through Carmax over the years and have had a great experience with all 3.

Big fan of Carmax here. At auto auctions their buyers avoid the crappy vehicles and concentrate on good ones, and usually outbid others for those vehicles. They want good vehicles to start with, then fix them up to their standards and sell them. I've bought 3 from them. All 3 are still on the road, and the work truck is over 300k miles now.

You can research their inventory nationwide and get vehicles shipped to the Carmax near you, often for free, to test drive sometimes.

That is what I did with my last car. Would prefer new but probably should look into this again.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

I was hoping we were going to discuss some new automobiles in the Under $40K category
How about used cars 3 yrs coming off the leases? That's how I bought my last car, almost 6 years ago
We haven't had a car payment in several years, it's been delightful.
My Volvo has 110.000+ miles on it, '14 S60, still runs OK but I've beat the hell out of that car, wouldn't mind another.
$17,500 w/30,000 miles when I bought it, doubt I could get anything close to that these days.

Yeah, I'd live a Ford Truck at a certain point, so practical but the expense to acquire one of them is ridiculous.

Had an F150 for a year and half now. Can't imagine owning anything else.

WAIT, ONE year and a whole HALF of a year? Wow, can't imagine what the future brings, especially based on their track record / resale value.

In 5-10 years from now, I can't imagine owning anything else, either. For another huge chunk of money, while selling for what, a fraction of that?

No idea what any of this means.

No need to be coy, Roy (although you seem more like a Ray, from Rain Man -- my favorite). Take that as a compliment.

It means . . . good luck with the recent purchase of your Ford F-150. Which quite possibly is NOT built to last.

So talking about "No idea what any of this means" is quite ironic, in the context of things. How does one know that they "can't imagine owning anything else", when there is no evidence to the contrary? In fact, if anything, there is plenty of evidence to show that, long-term, an F-150 does not stand the test of time.

Feel free to prove/show otherwise.

They probably are a fad.

Hang on. "Best-Selling" means what exactly? Like, best sucker-bait for American super genius truck buyers?

Congrats?!