Car Market going forward (3 Viewers)

[-OZ-]

We’re finally exploring options to replace our larger vehicle. The 2011 odyssey still runs at 170,000 miles but we’re ready to consider a new vehicle as this is our long trip vehicle.
We have an appointment at the local Toyota dealer Saturday to check the grand highlander. We’re 90% sold that this will be the vehicle. But I’m quite happy to wait and get it decked out exactly how we want it.

Is Costco still a really good way to get the best deals? I don’t care to negotiate too much, I hate that part but will shop around and we’re not in a rush.

This thing is going to cost over $50k easy, but will probably last us until the youngest graduates college in 13ish years. Our 2007 highlander is still going strong - son 2 drives it.

I’m not sure if we’ll trade in the odyssey or sell it.

What do I need to know?

Can't go wrong with Toyota or Honda imo ... although every brand has quality issues, these brands seem to have the fewest.
Is there a reason you are considering the Grand Highlander over another Odyssey ... or a Honda Pilot?

If you don't care about the 3rd row I would look into a Honda Passport. Just about as big as a PILOT - no third row and a tad more comfier imo

Unless we waited a couple years, the third row is a must. Even if we wait we’ll probably want it. (5 kids, although two are adults)

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

 

[Desert_Power]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

 

[Osaurus]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

 

[Desert_Power]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Wilderness is really cool. I was pretty impressed with all of the features and details that go into the Subarus, but their MPG is pretty bad.

 

[Osaurus]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Wilderness is really cool. I was pretty impressed with all of the features and details that go into the Subarus, but their MPG is pretty bad.

Agreed

 

[Judge Smails]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Wilderness is really cool. I was pretty impressed with all of the features and details that go into the Subarus, but their MPG is pretty bad.

The Outback w/turbo engine runs about 22-25 mpg, not terrific but better than the Forester XT(93 grade gas) we have, every time i step on the gas in one of the fast modes I lose a gallon
Toyota Hybrid is around 40 mpg but they seem to run about $35k-$40k.

 

[Osaurus]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

 

[Osaurus]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

 

[Osaurus]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Market Value $33.381.00
Discount.........$!,881.00

Selling Price.....$31,500, hang on to your seats because this car is going to rise close to $40k when they are done.
BMW PrestPack $1,995.00, complete joke
Window Tint........$795.00, nobody wanted this
State Fees.............$748.50, we looked this up and that's off
Doc Fees..............$1,198.00, again more BS cover for dealer fees, they just don't refer to them as dealer fees but that's what these are.

Grand total on the $31.500 internet "great price" total to a whopping $39,130.00 w/sales tax of course included
WOW!
BMW-Miami South, honest as they get

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

Years ago, When we got my wife’s first “nice” car, a Mercedes everyone of them had a sunroof. It was a $2500 add on. I told them I didn’t want a sunroof. They told me this is Southern California every one wants a sun roof! That’s all we order! I laughed at the dude. We left. Called him up and said knock 2500 off and deliver the car to my wife at work and you’ve got a deal. He did just that.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

Years ago, When we got my wife’s first “nice” car, a Mercedes everyone of them had a sunroof. It was a $2500 add on. I told them I didn’t want a sunroof. They told me this is Southern California every one wants a sun roof! That’s all we order! I laughed at the dude. We left. Called him up and said knock 2500 off and deliver the car to my wife at work and you’ve got a deal. He did just that.

I laughed at them as well, got a 2nd proposal rather quickly, tint disappeared, package add on cut to $495, knocked another $1,000 off the car to counter some other junk fees
We're getting a lot closer, I did laugh and tell them I didn't think we could do business to the point I didn't even want to give them an out the door price and suddenly fees disappeared

 

[GoBirds]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

 

[WVU Alum]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

I think they have found that their sales are still robust by having a test drive car and letting people order. Less overhead, better possibility of getting better price as the dealer.

 

[stbugs]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

Years ago, When we got my wife’s first “nice” car, a Mercedes everyone of them had a sunroof. It was a $2500 add on. I told them I didn’t want a sunroof. They told me this is Southern California every one wants a sun roof! That’s all we order! I laughed at the dude. We left. Called him up and said knock 2500 off and deliver the car to my wife at work and you’ve got a deal. He did just that.

What’s really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you have bought the car if you knew that the sun roof already came with the trim you got?

 

[stbugs]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

My god that is unreal. More than half that **** is stupid. Well spray some Rain-X on the windshield, say we’ll do stuff that your insurance already covers, put some Vaseline on your battery terminal, install an app, put nitrogen in your tire like Costco always does, spray some scotch guard, spray some Lysol, hand you some armor all, wipe some ceramic wipes we got on Amazon on your headlights and scratch your VIN into a few more places. That’s 30 minutes of work that we normally charge $8k for that we’ll give it away to you for $2k. Lol, where’s Puddy to charge for undercoating?

 

[fruity pebbles]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge m

My god that is unreal. More than half that **** is stupid. Well spray some Rain-X on the windshield, say we’ll do stuff that your insurance already covers, put some Vaseline on your battery terminal, install an app, put nitrogen in your tire like Costco always does, spray some scotch guard, spray some Lysol, hand you some armor all, wipe some ceramic wipes we got on Amazon on your headlights and scratch your VIN into a few more places. That’s 30 minutes of work that we normally charge $8k for that we’ll give it away to you for $2k. Lol, where’s Puddy to charge for undercoating?

Surprises me that dealerships are still trying to get away with that garbage. There’s literally nothing on that list worth a crap.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

The lots are full in these parts

 

[Osaurus]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

The lots are full in these parts

Same. Pretty much the reason I got a good deal on my Tiguan

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Market Value $33.381.00
Discount.........$!,881.00

Selling Price.....$31,500, hang on to your seats because this car is going to rise close to $40k when they are done.
BMW PrestPack $1,995.00, complete joke
Window Tint........$795.00, nobody wanted this
State Fees.............$748.50, we looked this up and that's off
Doc Fees..............$1,198.00, again more BS cover for dealer fees, they just don't refer to them as dealer fees but that's what these are.

Grand total on the $31.500 internet "great price" total to a whopping $39,130.00 w/sales tax of course included
WOW!
BMW-Miami South, honest as they get

Was able to minimize most of the fees
They dropped the price to almost $30k...they do that of course because they can't explain the Doc fees, I worked the State fees out with them, transfer title vs new...
Out the door we're close to $34k w/all taxes and fees so...I'm going to pick it up tomorrow before lunch.
When I discussed how long this process should take, mind you I've never stepped foot on this lot, 2.5 hours and we're not even dickering over the price at this point.
There must be a timeshare somewhere in all of this I swear
I still don't trust them but the color combo is exactly what we wanted, I searched a 200-300 miles radius, there weren't many green w/brown leather interior.

-I truly thank this community because it was much easier to sit around my living room with the Mrs and check in here all day to laugh at their proposals until things got real
I didn't do that incredible but a couple thousand under KBB wasn't bad in this current market.
Still have to see the bottom line when I get there, probably some additional inconvenience fee between the time I leave the house and arrive.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Market Value $33.381.00
Discount.........$!,881.00

Selling Price.....$31,500, hang on to your seats because this car is going to rise close to $40k when they are done.
BMW PrestPack $1,995.00, complete joke
Window Tint........$795.00, nobody wanted this
State Fees.............$748.50, we looked this up and that's off
Doc Fees..............$1,198.00, again more BS cover for dealer fees, they just don't refer to them as dealer fees but that's what these are.

Grand total on the $31.500 internet "great price" total to a whopping $39,130.00 w/sales tax of course included
WOW!
BMW-Miami South, honest as they get

Was able to minimize most of the fees
They dropped the price to almost $30k...they do that of course because they can't explain the Doc fees, I worked the State fees out with them, transfer title vs new...
Out the door we're close to $34k w/all taxes and fees so...I'm going to pick it up tomorrow before lunch.
When I discussed how long this process should take, mind you I've never stepped foot on this lot, 2.5 hours and we're not even dickering over the price at this point.
There must be a timeshare somewhere in all of this I swear
I still don't trust them but the color combo is exactly what we wanted, I searched a 200-300 miles radius, there weren't many green w/brown leather interior.

-I truly thank this community because it was much easier to sit around my living room with the Mrs and check in here all day to laugh at their proposals until things got real
I didn't do that incredible but a couple thousand under KBB wasn't bad in this current market.
Still have to see the bottom line when I get there, probably some additional inconvenience fee between the time I leave the house and arrive.

Oh, you're still dickering over price. You just don't get to find that out until you invest in the drive down.

 

[culdeus]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

Don't think is really true. Maybe Honda and Toyota are still thin but don't think anywhere is wiped out.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

Years ago, When we got my wife’s first “nice” car, a Mercedes everyone of them had a sunroof. It was a $2500 add on. I told them I didn’t want a sunroof. They told me this is Southern California every one wants a sun roof! That’s all we order! I laughed at the dude. We left. Called him up and said knock 2500 off and deliver the car to my wife at work and you’ve got a deal. He did just that.

What’s really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you have bought the car if you knew that the sun roof already came with the trim you got?

I did my research. It was an add on

 

[Soulfly3]

Just bought my first (new) car in France.
What a weird experience compared to what I knew from back home in Canada.

offered assistance, but zero pressure. knew what I wanted already but was checking it all out and seeing what's there. tell the guy I wanted the yaris cross hybrid (toyota), he walks me upstairs... asks me what I wanna pay/month (lease), says "ok here's what you gotta put down"... I say yes... he takes my info and tells me that finance will reach out in a few days to wrap things up.

zero pressure for add-ons, warranties etc (but was a lease, so...).

the wild thing, at least for me... was I wanted a car asap. ASAP here is mid june (we went 2 weeks ago), and that's if I went with the grey color... otherwise earliest was early/mid october. to heck with that, so went with grey.

just felt so much less pressurized, and didn't have to "no" 10000 things to get the deal done.

 

[GoBirds]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

Don't think is really true. Maybe Honda and Toyota are still thin but don't think anywhere is wiped out.

Toyota is the one I tried to stop by this week and besides Tundras super weak.

 

[stbugs]

Looking at another Subaru, have owned a few and relatively low cost of ownership even when I have bought them brand new
-Outback, Touring XT, have a couple in the 2022 model, under 20,000 miles, looking at around $32k used vs $45k+ brand new and then the difference in taxes, etc...

Test drove a Genesis GV70, nice ride and super luxurious, still around $40k+ used and not sure what they will be worth in 3-4 years vs the steady Subaru market.
Tried some other SUVs but by the time you get AWD and a turbo engine in most of them, you're paying at least what you would to acquire a Subaru

The high interest rates on used cars makes it harder to not just pay cash if you have that flexibility. Or pay them down/off faster than normal

We're looking at cars in this range as well after a falling tree totaled both of ours 2 weeks ago. Subaru Outback, Toyota RAV4, Nissan Rouge, and Mazda CX50 are the main contenders for now. I think we've decided that the front camera is necessary, which pushes us into higher trims.

Ended up with a 2024 Tiguan SEL R when VW was having their 0% financing in April. So far, I love it. Sad that the transmission on my Outback started going out and their deals weren’t/aren’t great on new models, but what can you do? I needed to dump my Outback. Really wanted a Wilderness Edition model fwiw. Next time.

Looking at crossover type for Mrs Smails. Just looking at comfort, space, vision etc she likes the Tiguan the best. Have to get into performance/reliability. Thought we were going down the Audi Q7 route but have read for some reason they aren’t as reliable as the sedans (I have an A6). But all good with the Tiguan so far? What others did you consider?

Mazda CX-50 and Subaru Outback (Wilderness). That’s it. I got the dealership to throw in an extended warranty on the powertrain. I’m 1,000 miles in on the Tiguan now and so far it’s terrific. All the bells and whistles are impressive.

Autotrader
'23 SE R-Line 13k miles, no accidents
$27,999 or about $3k under KBB value
Hmmmm

Others that fall further towards say $25k, hard to find a used SUV in that price range that's close to new with low miles.
Good find bud, I still lean towards Subaru. Owned a Jetta once about 20 years ago, we loved it and drove it into the ground.
I thought VW did a no no a few years back, guess the brand has survived.

They did. Remember their emissions bypass “solution”? I looked at the Atlas too, but it’s bigger than what I need.

I used to commute and drive around the state a lot, but now my car sits mostly in a garage cocoon with the exception of some light weekend driving. Any car I bought would essentially be considered a retiree car these days.

Obstacle #1...found a car I wanted close to 100 miles away, gotta go down to Miami bu the color combo/price make it worth the time
However, I call to start talking numbers and right away, BMW dealer, they put a $2k prestige package on the car which is coating inside and out,(this is on top of the advertised price of course) irks me they have an add on that nobody asked them to do with the car to start with, not sure how you negotiate that down.

Car buying process is infuriating at times

Did my entire deal through email and only went into the dealership for delivery. You need to find someone who’s willing to work with you. I was basically 2 for 5 and went with the dealership I went with mostly bc they finished the deal first. Others were laughably bad. I mean real creepy/predatory bad.

Part of the email proposal I received...

Introducing our Prestige Package, a comprehensive suite of enhancements valued at over $8,000, exclusively tailored for our esteemed members. Elevate your BMW experience with unparalleled protection and benefits: Pre Installed Price of only $1,995.

Here are all the great benefits:

Exterior + Interior Protection: Shielding your vehicle from the elements, our treatments guard against UV damage on exterior surfaces and prevent stains from permeating interior fabrics.

Surface Sanitizer + Anti-Microbial: Prioritizing your well-being, we apply a hospital-grade disinfectant to eliminate harmful microbes, complemented by a durable anti-microbial coating for lasting protection.

Windshield Treatment: Enhance visibility and safety with our military-grade Rain Repellant, ensuring water beads off effortlessly for optimal driving clarity.

Clear Door Edge & Cup Guards: Preserve your vehicle's pristine appearance with polyurethane guards, shielding vulnerable areas from unsightly chips and scratches.

Headlight Protectant: Safeguard your headlights against deterioration, prolonging their lifespan and maintaining optimal brightness for years to come.

Battery Protectant: Extend battery longevity and optimize electrical performance with our specialized sealant, combating corrosion and unwanted drainage.

Anti-Theft VIN Marking: Rest easy knowing your vehicle is safeguarded with discreetly marked identifiers, acting as a deterrent against theft and aiding law enforcement in recovery efforts.

Ventilation Refresh: Breathe easy with our thorough ventilation system treatment, eliminating odors and allergens for a fresh interior environment.

Nitrogen Tire Service: Maximize tire performance and fuel efficiency with nitrogen inflation, complemented by complimentary refills and credit towards tire maintenance.

Roadside Concierge: Enjoy peace of mind with 24/7 roadside assistance, ensuring prompt support for any unexpected mishaps while on the road.

Stolen Vehicle Assistance: In the unfortunate event of theft, receive support with insurance deductible coverage towards a replacement vehicle from our dealership.

Collision Loyalty Credit: Mitigate the impact of accidents with a credit towards a replacement vehicle, demonstrating our commitment to customer satisfaction.

Members Travel Kit: Indulge in premium car care products, included in your welcome kit to uphold your vehicle's immaculate appearance.

Customer Mobile App: Seamlessly manage your benefits on-the-go with our user-friendly mobile app, offering convenient access to services and scheduling tools.

-They put this on all their vehicles...this is a 2022 Outback XT, I don't see the value, seems like a way to make more profits w/huge margins

Years ago, When we got my wife’s first “nice” car, a Mercedes everyone of them had a sunroof. It was a $2500 add on. I told them I didn’t want a sunroof. They told me this is Southern California every one wants a sun roof! That’s all we order! I laughed at the dude. We left. Called him up and said knock 2500 off and deliver the car to my wife at work and you’ve got a deal. He did just that.

What’s really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you have bought the car if you knew that the sun roof already came with the trim you got?

I did my research. It was an add on

Damn it Neo, nobody got the joke.

 

[culdeus]

So a couple years ago someone linked this guys video. https://youtube.com/@carquestionsanswered?si=q-zLcg9LsHlyPSb-

I watched one that proclaimed every car dealer was going broke and all cars in America were gonna be repo tomorrow. He's still just beating that drum.

 

[fruity pebbles]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

 

[Nugget]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

The lots are full in these part

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

Don't think is really true. Maybe Honda and Toyota are still thin but don't think anywhere is wiped out.

Toyota is the one I tried to stop by this week and besides Tundras super weak.

Toyota by far has the lowest day supply of inventory, but they are slowly increasing. Industry inventory is going up about 100k month. Incentives are also continuing to improve, but we still are probably 12-18 months away from pre 2020 levels.

 

[stbugs]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

 

[stbugs]

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

The lots are full in these part

How are there still no inventory at the dealerships? We catching up any time soon?

Don't think is really true. Maybe Honda and Toyota are still thin but don't think anywhere is wiped out.

Toyota is the one I tried to stop by this week and besides Tundras super weak.

Toyota by far has the lowest day supply of inventory, but they are slowly increasing. Industry inventory is going up about 100k month. Incentives are also continuing to improve, but we still are probably 12-18 months away from pre 2020 levels.

Looking forward to inventory getting back to usual. Likely needing a car in a couple years or earlier depending on youngest needing a car at college. It would be nice to time it right.

 

[fruity pebbles]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

It was definitely more than the dealer offered. It’s probably more me than anything. I can’t think of anything I want to do less than meet new people, particularly in these circumstances.

 

[thecatch]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

 

[Drunken knight]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

 

[fruity pebbles]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

I just took cash but it was only 3 grand.

 

[Drunken knight]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

I just took cash but it was only 3 grand.

mine is out there at 23k.

 

[thecatch]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

I just took cash but it was only 3 grand.

mine is out there at 23k.

Get a cashier's check.

 

[fruity pebbles]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

I just took cash but it was only 3 grand.

mine is out there at 23k.

Get a cashier's check.

Isnt there a fake cashiers check scam out there? For 23k I think id want to meet the guy at the bank.

 

[Drunken knight]

anyone want to buy an 05 convertible BMW M3? 20k for a FBG

 

[thecatch]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

Ok... it's been a while since i have sold privately. most secure form of payment? cashier's check? money order/wire? paypal safe?

I just took cash but it was only 3 grand.

mine is out there at 23k.

Get a cashier's check.

Isnt there a fake cashiers check scam out there? For 23k I think id want to meet the guy at the bank.

Yeah, in my case we finalized the paperwork on the transaction in the bank lobby (brief sale contract confirming it was an "as-is" sale and DMV transfer paperwork) and the buyer got the cashier's check while we were there.

 

[stbugs]

God I hate selling cars private sale. So much so that I just placed an ad on Craigslist and underpriced the car by a grand, maybe two. Had a bunch of emails. Took the 3 that seemed the most serious and reputable and emailed them where the car is parked, take a look and the keys are in the center console to take a drive. If you like it email me back and it’s yours. First guy bought it, lucky for me. Not an expensive car, worth 4-5 grand.

Really? I know I remember some idiots sending low ball offers, but I sold 2 Explorers and a Sienna years ago (haven’t sold one since) and sold one on Autotrader and one on Craigslist and both were smooth. I got myself ready for making sure I didn’t get scammed (looked up insurance company/agent for on check and cash) and had the cars looking good. Two times got about 50-100% more (12 vs 8 and 8 vs 4) than dealer. The other time got $800 more than Carmax on the last day of their offer.

Even if you get less in private sale to get rid of it fast, it’s very likely much better than dealer.

Last time I did a private sale I received about $1000 more than the Carmax offer, but it also took me 3 weekends of selling and showing the cars to various buyers. It will be worth it to me to just take the Carmax haircut next time to save me the time and energy of selling it myself.

I only had to deal with 4 people for the 3 sales, so it wasn’t bad at all. I got almost $9k more than Carmax/trade in offers so it was well worth it.

 

[snellman]

We just got a 2024 Yukon Denali Ultimate in (not even an XL) MSRP is $101,845. I remember thinking it was nuts when they were 50K

 

[fruity pebbles]

God…..who’s spending 100k on a car so their kids can spill their juice boxes all over the back of it

 

[snellman]

God…..who’s spending 100k on a car so their kids can spill their juice boxes all over the back of it

I blows my mind to see the condition some of these are in when they come into the shop, or the guy who spends 80-100K on a 3/4 ton diesel denali and brings it in with the inside smelling like #### from his hogs or cattle and mud all over.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Update: My head is absolutely spinning right now...feels like I went 10 rounds with Tyson and we actually had the price agreed upon before we drove 2 hours to go pick the car up.

Appointment was for 11:30 in South Miami off Dixie, I figured as long as we left by about 2:00 we should be OK dodging much of the traffic between here and there
The first hour or so we were there, we're test driving the car, looked it up and down, practically brand new. We had to transfer insurance and that's when we get a quote from a very young lady that turned out was just 18 yrs old and in possession of a 2-20 Lic, I about **** myself. I tried not to look at her but it was almost impossible, she was dressed like she was 30 and my wife noticed a bead of sweat on my forehead as she was running insurance quotes...we have Progressive so no need to change anything, the new car was barely $100 bump to our coverage

Another hour rolls along and we keep hearing the finance lady is going to walk over and get us and bring us back...and finally I said which way and I'll just walk myself
And this becomes a lot of me just wanting to sign and get the bleep out of there...
We get in the finance office with a lady that's been here a few years from Cuba, just keep a note of that

-The rather large desk we are sitting across from her, this desk was like a big iPad and they just had it installed a couple months ago, it literally has you signing the documents that are like 2-3x the size of normal paper, old folks must love sitting there and signing as they can actually read the words. And the screen/desk just keep flipping around back and forth, it was incredible until the numbers start rolling out. Mind you we have a 810 Fico or some ungodly number that the sale person shook our hand and said congratulations, thought maybe we won something but all that did was earn us almost a 10% interest rate thru BMW...she never actually said the rate but again, this desk/iPad screen we were working off was HUGE, the number jumped off the screen to me.

-All this while she was trying to sell us an extended warranty of almost $3,000, there might have been some cheaper packages but she is trying to strong arm us into an extended warranty on a Subaru Outback with 4k miles on it and still under factory warranty, it's a '22 Touring XT. I politely told her we were not interested and she says "IT'S the LAW! I have to read this and explain all of this to you"...at which point I said "I don't think the law says I have to buy a warranty from you"...my wife shot me a look that said "Please don't ruin this" so I didn't mouth off any further until...

It was taking even longer than it is to read this post but we were past 2:00 and I just said to my wife, "we're not getting out of here until 4:00, we might as well get a hotel room for the night" and I excused myself from the office as my wife muttered my name in a way you know as a husband of 24 years that's not good. However, my wife said after I left that the finance manager made up some story that she didn't have the complete picture/finance story and if I would return that she would fix things quickly and this woman started doing a lot of typing and less warranty selling so that was good.

We had 7.5% thru Chase in our back pocket before we sat down. She did somehow beat that interest rate to 6.9% with some credit union we never heard of "Space Coast"
We might pay the car off quickly, but I want to share that buying a car in cash doesn't help at all in negotiating the price at most of the lots down here in South Florida, they make money on the financing although they ask if we would at least take 91 days to pay it off in full...I think you know the reasons why that is "charge backs" on their end.

We finally rolled out of there about 2:30-2:45, still took over 3 hours to get in and out of that car lot, next time I would press more for the financing before I book an appointment, it sucked up a lot of time just waiting around for an outcome we all knew was going to happen. I guess they think you'll roll over and take their warranty but we were having no part of it.

-Mrs drove the car home and loves it. Metallic Green with the saddle brown leather just like she wanted.

Some things to share directly from the horses mouths down there...they know they gotta advertise a great price thru Autotrader or you won't call, that's likely where this Prestige Package rises from, they have it everywhere in the dealership including the water bottles they give you to sip on, but that's why they start tacking on BS fees to try and counter the fishing they do online.

-Let's say you car hunt and find the vehicle you want and let's say they want $30k and that's labeled "good/great" price. Don't start negotiating down UNTIL you get a proposal from these turkeys with any and all additional fees and most of these bigger car lots are going to be loaded with them. If you had not read some of my other posts, they tacked on almost $4k+ in "Prestige Package" fees "Tint" and "Doc Fees"...I had to get the out the door price before I could go back to what they were advertising the car for...and I had to keep reminding them when they were knocking discounts and lowering fees that they really weren't being that nice to me.

The $31,750 "Great Price" had to be lowered to almost $30k to offset a lot of their silly fees. But again I had to get the out the door price so that I could work backwards and once I made some of these fees disappear there wasn't much place for them to go when we get to "Doc Fees" of almost $1,200 so we had to start cutting the price of the car, again just offsetting their BS add on fees so be very careful not to fall for these advertised prices unless your ready to do battle.

-Thanks Everyone!
It helps to have a sounding board on cars here.